120gr Lee in a Garand w/4895

[Jaak]

So I'm a Canadian that finally, finally, got his hands on a Garand. It's nothing fancy, just a Breda receiver Frankensteined with parts from other rifles, but with a new barrel and new wood. I have not been able to go shoot it yet because the ammo shortage is an order of magnitude worse up here than down South in the States. Because of this I am going to have to load up some cast so I can shoot it.

Right now I only have access to 120 grain Lee cast and checked bullets and a pound each of IMR4895 and H4895.

All the published referenced that I see show 4895 as usable in the heavier bullet ranges but no mention of it in the lower weights.

Can I put together something out of those two that will cycle the Garand action?

[BLAHUT]

Grand can be a fickle lady to load for. Follow load data for grand closely.

[Hick]

I have used IMR 4895 with a 110 grain bullet with some success-- but with a jacketed bullet. 43 grains at 2400 fps. I haven't tried that with cast because I find, with my Garand, that anything over about 1900 fps does not work well for me in cast. I could not see a safe way to get down to 1900 fps with 4895.

[charlie b]

I'd go ahead with it. 4895 is one of those powders actually recommended for reduced loads.

I've never tried that light a bullet in my Garand. Whatever load you use it will probably be a single shot. 165gn at 2000fps just barely cycles it. It does better with a 200 or 210gn bullet.

[Rickf1985]

H4895 can be downloaded but IMR4895 cannot from what I have been told. I also have never been able to find any load data supporting reduced loads in IMR powders.

[Jaak]

I'm going to go ahead and try it out. Does anyone have an idea what a max load would be so I don't blow up my new Garand? I would probably cry if that happened.

[recumbent]

OR bend the op rod

[racepres]

Why don't you drop me a PM, I can send either 170 GC Lees or Jacketed..

[Ford SD]

So I'm a Canadian that finally, finally, got his hands on a Garand. It's nothing fancy, just a Breda receiver Frankensteined with parts from other rifles, but with a new barrel and new wood. I have not been able to go shoot it yet because the ammo shortage is an order of magnitude worse up here than down South in the States. Because of this I am going to have to load up some cast so I can shoot it.

Right now I only have access to 120 grain Lee cast and checked bullets and a pound each of IMR4895 and H4895.

All the published referenced that I see show 4895 as usable in the heavier bullet ranges but no mention of it in the lower weights.

Can I put together something out of those two that will cycle the Garand action?

I might be wrong..... but i do not think so..... You could get it to work but I think you might not be able to hit a 3 Foot x 3 Foot target at 100 yards you need a certain gas pressure at the gas port to work the action

If you have a old spring that is weaker than a new spring and used that spring it might work for a 50 yard plinker

but If you push a cast bullet so fast to reach that gas/ volume pressure you would be OVER STABILIZING that bullet = not able to hit a target

If you wanted to do it with a 120g bullet and use it as a straight pull .... it would work

I have used 150/ 165 /170 /180 and 207g ( with dacron filler) in the garand and find the heaver bullets work better/ easier

Where are you located ??? Province ??

I have m1's in 308 3006 and 35 whelen and use lots of cast in them

[Ford SD]

You should be able to pick up some 150g Campro bullets from a local store
not match accuracy but should be up to the Iron sights of the garand and put you on paper

H 4895 would be a better choice, it works better at reduced charges

I have seen light loads using Imr 4895 and cast but never with a m1 garand in mind

[Hick]

If you do work with reduced charges, be careful. The 30-06 case is long compared to its diameter. I little geometry calculation shows that at about 60% load, it is actually possible to get the gunpowder to lie mostly lengthwise in the case all the way from the base to the bullet and still have the flash hole uncovered. When the powder is lying lengthwise this way in a 30-06 case the exposed surface area of the gunpowder is slightly more than 6 times higher than if you had the primer flash hitting the powder in a full case. This can dramatically increase how fast the powder is consumed and raise the pressure a lot. Normally, of course, the powder is not lying lengthwise in the case, but its something to think about.

[charlie b]

H4895 can be downloaded but IMR4895 cannot from what I have been told. I also have never been able to find any load data supporting reduced loads in IMR powders.

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists a lot of reduced loads for IMR powders in different cartridges. The #3 book does not list any with IMR4895 or H4198 (that I have found). They do list H4895 and IMR4198. They also have loads for many IMR powders in different cartridges. Just not for the 122gn bullet in the .30-06. It does list RX-7 and WW748.

This got me curious so I looked up data in the Lyman 45th Reloading Handbook. There were no loads listed for any of the Hnnnn series powders, only the IMR series (including IMR4895). It did have H335, H380, etc. Weird. These were not reduced loads and were for jacketed bullets.

[dale2242]

I have shot thousands of reduced cast loads of IMR 4895 in my Garand.
32gr of IMR4895 with 1gr of Dacron with a 150-170gr cast bullet will cycle my rifle.

[Rich/WIS]

RCBS book lists IMR 4895 with their 115gr cast, 30 grs at just shy of 1900 fps and 32 grs just over 2000 fps. The prologue in the RCBS manual states that their load data was intended for velocities not over @2000 fps as they felt that was the upper end for accurate shooting.

The NRA Cast Bullet book shows one load, a 120 gr Lyman 311465 with 34 grs of IMR 4895 at 1850 fps.

My Garand functioned reliably with cast in the 170 gr weight range, although that was with IMR 4064.

[Larry Gibson]

By the time you get enough gas port pressure to function the rifle with 4895 (either flavor) the velocity will be well over the RPM Threshold for the 10" twist of an M1 rifle. Suggest at leas a 170 gr cast bullet. In all the M1s I've used cast in over the years I learned to g straight to a lubed and GC'd 311299 or 314299 over 28 - 32 gr 4895 (either flavor) with a dacron filler. A velocity of 1850 - 1900 fps always gave the best accuracy with 100% reliable functioning.

[Jaak]

So the consensus is that while it might be possible to drive a 120gr cast bullet through a Garand and have it function, it will be trash for accuracy. A couple of you have made offers to help find some components and I'll be in touch.

Thanks everyone.

[abunaitoo]

I've shot many cast with "The Load".
IMR4350 and Lee 180gr.
Works well. Cycles well.
I did notice that without the dacron filler, it is a little erratic.
Doesn't help much because I'm not using 4895, but it might help.

[15meter]

If you can find safe loads for you boolits, you can always shoot your Garand as a straight pull bolt action. I have shot light loads out of my M1 in the past. Plinker loads intended for the 03A3.

Ran out of Garand loads and had the light loads with me. It will at least get you shooting your rifle safely.

Just make sure every one clears the barrel before the next trigger pull. Hole in paper, ringing dinger or bouncing can.

[Good Cheer]

I've shot many cast with "The Load".
IMR4350 and Lee 180gr.
Works well. Cycles well.
I did notice that without the dacron filler, it is a little erratic.
Doesn't help much because I'm not using 4895, but it might help.

How hard the alloy?
Large diameter on sizing?
I mite be making boolits for someone to load.