why hunt with cast boolits?

[tdoyka]

this one got me thinking?....

THIS.

Attachment 177901
While my .32-20 is not strictly a .32-20 (case blown out from the original .314" to take a custom .320" slug for a rechambered Martini Cadet), the above bullets were light fireformers of a 130 grain LBT at about 1250fps. The soft bullet (20-1) on the right took three milk jugs to stop. The hard bullet on the left (WQWW) took NINE.

The hard bullet is now doing just shy of 1600fps, so essentially .357 magnum territory. No, I wouldn't shoot elk across canyons with it, but deer to 100Y, sure.

I submit that the OP has been infected - as many of us latter-half-of-20th-Century children were - with a touch of Weatherbyism: the notion that a bullet must be the weight of an Acme Cartoon Anvil and be moving at the speed of an SR-71 Blackbird in order to stand a 50% chance of killing a brown field mouse with one shot. We grew up in an era of jacketed bullets of often dubious durability and the resulting conventional wisdom was that we needed heavier to stay together and reach vitals. Seeing what cast and solid copper Barnes slugs will do on both jugs and deer has cured me of this notion.

.32-40 is not only good to go, but REALLY good to go!

i was once "infected" of magmunitis too. i never used a magnum(except 44 mag) , but back when i was boy/teen i wanted a magnum like no other. i dreamed of shooting a 264 win mag from a mile away, hitting both of the deer's lungs. i dreamed of the 300 win mag with elk, the 338 win mag with grizzly and a 460 weatherby mag when i go to africa. i did alot of dreaming! but then reality set in and i used a 20 gauge pump with slugs. the next year an old guy let me use his winchester m94 in 32 sp, the year after that i had my own win m94 in 30-30. and a couple of years later i was set on using my own handloads for many rifles that i have owned. for 20+ years i have shot from a 20 vartarg to 45-70, all of them from jacketed bullets.

after i had a stroke( about 4 years ago), i was looking/wondering, what am i gonna do now? does a reduced load hurt? is it even possible? what about cast boolits? can i shoot a cast boolit? would a cast boolit...
1. would it expand?
2. what would the velocity be?
3. at what range?
4. who makes them?
5. how......................

so i started looking on the 'net. what do i find? just a little thing thats called "cast boolits"!!! i have been a follower for 3 or 4 years now. although i don't cast(buy them for now) , i do find it interesting. from what powder to what boolit and for what game/target. the people are a great bunch of guys/girls that i have ever known!

anyway, why do i use cast boolits? well for starters, they don't kick much(recoil wise). to me, being stroke-abled-an-all, is probably the best thing ever. i can shoot my 30-40 krag at 1800fps(165gr ranch dog) and kill a deer a 100 yards away. my 444 marlin(tc encore) can shoot 2000fps(275gr ranch dog) and it kicks less than my '06 with a full load and a 180gr rn. the 45-70 with a 405gr fbfn goes 1400fps and it still kicks less than an '06. the accuracy is stellar, 444(scoped) goes .5" at 100 yards, 45-70 goes 2" at 100 yards(open sights) and the 30-40 krag(also open sights) goes 1 1/2" at 100 yards. i have a ruger sbh in 44 mag, that i use for my 44 sp that does a 250gr mihek hp with a skeeter load(with rest-2" at 30 yards, without rest- 4-5" at 30 yards). and yes, i try alot of data and loads. my 444 does not like the 280gr wfn gc(over 2 1/2"+ at 100yds) to go lower than 2000fps(rel7). i've got some h4198 and h322 to try.
my own yardage is 150 yards with cast boolits. over 150 yards it falls to my other tc encore and its 6.5 creedmoor and 120gr bt. the alloys/bhn is quite simply...amazing! i'm going to try a 40:1 in my 250gr hp(44 sp) and 275gr ranch dog(444) that uses a ww, but i may try a 20:1. although a ww 165gr rd(30-40 krag) can go thru/expand a deer.

it is so fun to use a cast boolit, whether for deer or target practice, than any jacketed bullet, all of the week and twice on sunday. my sister-in-law just loves to come and visit my 44sp! she is a great shooter, even better than me. she goes out to my 50 yard target and takes one of the 4"-4" targets and before you know it, its singing the target dance while lead dust settles around it. now my little brother won't shot a cast boolit out of his 45-70(marlin) because he only uses a hornady gummy tip, not some g-d---n cowboy bullet. one day i ought to give him my 45-70 handi-rifle and tell him to shoot it to see what is wrong.i'll give him one of my "special" loads(i wonder what a ruger load will do to him?) and let him have at it. then i'll take it from him and i shoot one of my loads. its something to think about, i wonder if a handi can do a ruger load?


well i've had enough of my ranting. today, archery deer season started and i had to miss it. but there is another day and another and another...

please feel free to comment on or rant on something else...

[richhodg66]

The last five deer I've taken with centerfire rifles have been with cast, three .30s, a .32 and a .35. All went well each time. I had killed a lot of them with cast in various muzzle loaders long before that, but that is no real trick when your bullet is a half inch in diameter. I think anything you can make a wound channel all the way through both lungs will work fine.

I also hunt small game with cast in a .22 Hornet. Works every bit as well as a .22 rimfire.

[dragon813gt]

I've never been caught up in needing the latest and greatest uber magnum. There is a reason I own a lot of 35 caliber guns. I find it's pretty much the perfect cast bullet platform in regards to bullet diameter, bullet weight and velocity. You don't need to push it to really high speeds to make it work.

A 200 grain bullet out of a 35 Remington will smack a deer down w/ authority. If I want to shoot a heavier bullet I can use a 358 Winchester. And like I said you don't need jacketed velocity to make it work. Or I could grab a light and handy 1894C and use a 170-180 grain bullet. I will admit I do ramp up the velocity w/ them. But there is practically no recoil which is what I prefer

I acquired a 375 H&H last year. It will never see a jacketed round since I don't want to deal w/ the recoil. A 280 grain cast bullet chugging along at modest speed packs plenty of energy. I have yet to see an armor plated deer in the wild :laugh:

[rodwha]

I may not have been sucked into the need for a magnum, but I was greatly swayed by the latest greatest bullet and would look at my old boss a bit sideways when he said he loved Core Lokt bullets.

With that in mind you can probably understand my trepidation for using a patched ball or even a conical through a muzzleloader. The good guys on the traditional forum set me straight. But then my cap n ball pistols use boolits. Can't wait to see how the perform!

[TXGunNut]

I'm a recent convert but since my first deer fell to my CB a few years back I haven't hunted with a j-word. For my style of hunting cast boolits are the best choice, IMHO. I can think of a few situations where J-words may be better but you can bet I'll try to git-r-done with a CB. Yes, I still load & test J-word loads for my brother because his faith in these loads is rock-solid after many years.
One guest on his lease this year is a youngster and I'm working on a load that will be gentle on his shoulder and at the same time put a deer on the ground RIGHT NOW. This feat is probably rather difficult with a J-word, will probably be no big deal with a CB.
Many hunters simply don't understand the power of a well-placed CB. Quite honestly, many experienced casters still hunt with J-words. I'm OK with that, but I'll be putting critters in the freezer with a CB this year.

[shoot-n-lead]

I love cast bullets...have taken a lot of game with them. However, I am in the process of finalizing a lease agreement on some hunting land and this lease will likely change my hunting bullets. In my experience, cast bullets do not produce as many down right there kills as jacketed bullets...not saying they don't kill, but I have had very few "drop in their tracks" kills, with cast bullets. The vast majority of mine have run some distance, before going down...regardless, of where they were shot. This new lease is THICK...THICK...THICK...6yr old cutover and I want to use a bullet that has produced the most "drop in the their tracks" shots for me...and this is for deer, so penetration is not an issue as I have never had a jacketed handgun bullet that did not pass through these smaller Ga deer...so, it will probably be jacketed bullets.

If I were willing to put the time in, I know that I could cast some hollow points that would give me the desired results...but I can just use jacketed and not get into chasing the rabbits associated with casting hollow points. Some in the past have been less than satisfactory...actually failed, in my view. In other words, I am too lazy to do it...and I don't have a lot of time as hunting season is here. Although, I may pursue it for next season as I hate to buy bullets.

Actually, I have commissioned beage333 to cast some for me, when he gets started casting in the next couple of weeks. I am sure that he will provide me with a hp that will work well...and that is what I will use in the Rossi.

[44man]

You are home. Did you see the title? Cast Boolits! But to buy boolits has to go away, you have no control. You are not free yet.

[Digital Dan]

Bullets are bullets, they have no mind and only follow directions from the "boss". Bosses take many forms. Some are gregarious, some thoughtful and some can't figure which side of the bed to exit from in the morning. Some bosses might find a rest and caress the trigger, some are prone to being jerkers. Several zip codes might separate the POI between the two.

I claim to be practical and do not indulge in extreme projects. A muffled M4 with cast at subsonic velocity and seeking function of the action is not a goal I will pursue. Likewise, I will not betray a .45-70 by loading jacketed bullets, nor a .38-55 Winchester. Your views likely differ and I've no objection whatsoever. I cast for a variety of reasons that suit my purposes.

1) cast bullets are far cheaper than OTC cup and core bullets
2) since one gets to fiddle with hardness and style of loading they are more flexible than cup and core bullets on many levels
3) they are appropriate to many older guns due to metallurgical properties of older barrels
4) likewise, they are more appropriate to pressure levels of older actions and barrels
5) in some cases they are profoundly more accurate than cup and core bullets
6) they are often proscribed by rules in competition
7) their performance cannot be surpassed when one wishes to convert an armadillo to chunks and mist

[Wardo1974]

I agree with all the above.

I hunt only with cast in any rifle. Either 100+ year old rifles or modern - cast all the way.

1.) I love the mushrooming of a pure lead boolit in any target.
2.) All my hunting is in the brush under 75 yards, so the sub-MOA that cast boolits cannot provide is irrelevant.
3) The cost is unbeatable. Where I live in Canada, as an example, a factory box of .38-55 is about 60-70 bucks (Canadian) for a box of 20. I can load warm game-getting rounds for about $4 for twenty using cast. It's a no-brainer.
4.) I also don't give a hoot about magnum anything. You'd think as a younger guy I'd want the latest short magnum whatever, but I prefer the big old rounds that got the job done before people had indoor plumbing.

[white eagle]

cast boolits are the standard by which their jacketed cousins
are measured by.If it weren't for cast jacketed wouldn't exist.
There are some cals that just shine with cast and I prefer to use them.
Money is not a priority and not the first concern for me when it comes to
accurate handloads,being self sufficient and independent of companies that
produce for the masses is more of a attainable goal and desire.

[Digital Dan]

I don't factor money into the equation that much either, but it is a factor. Too, there are things not readily available, such as .223" bullets for an old Hornet. I will fire form with cast and plink as appropriate and save the "jewels" for specific tasks. Yeah, it will shoot .224" bullets, but it prefers the smaller.

I have problems with thinking that cast is not competitive with jacketed in the precision department. They can be and often are. It is largely in the hands of the caster to make that happen.

First two shots with an old Marlin 94 with a relined barrel chambered for .25-20 Win. Ideal 257283 plain base bullet and a tang sight....100 yards.



50 yards with the same gun and the flyers are my fault, not the gun's...

[rodwha]

The cost is primarily (I also like to be self sufficient and believe in doing for myself if I can instead of paying for it) why I jumped into casting as the only cap n ball bullets with a hunting meplat were sold by Kaido for $40/100 + shipping (then upped to $50).

Had his mold been available I would have purchased his but ended up working with Accurate Molds and making my own designs. And having bought scrap lead pipe from the salvage yard at $1/lb I can make my 195 grn bullets for less than $3/100 and no shipping...

[popper]

Target shooting with jacketed is boring. I've never shot an animal with any jacketed bullet. All the birds are DOA. Rabbits jump a couple times if at all, from a 177 pellet. South to North shot on a running pig went all the way through and broke a leg - he still went another 100 yds and no blood trail for 50 yds. Passed on a couple deer ( I prefer beef) as I don't relish tracking through mesquite and cactus undergrowth. DRT is CNS/shock wave or break something so they can't move. Went on a youth hunt in Feb. ~10 doe/spike & 7 pigs, ~ 100 yds. All jacketed and all tracked 50-100 yds. Stand shooting and guides called the shots. Plan on tracking.

[PositiveCaster]

Why? Because it brings you even closer to the overall hunting experience. Unlike some here I have no axe to grind regarding jacketed bullets and will use them when applicable, but for .45 LC hunting cast just seems natural. Once I switched to large meplat boolits I have had great big game hunting success. My .32 H&R SP-101 loves the RCBS 98-grain SWC and is deadly on grouse and rabbits.


.

[glockky]

I personally love the results I get with cast. I have yet to have a deer run a step when hit with a 265gr cast bullet out of my 44 mag revolver.
Before using cast I had a lot of deer run when hit by an xtp that did not exit. Most of the time there was little to no blood.
I would feel wrong putting anything but cast in the 45-70. My best groups out of the 357 max encore came with cast.



Entrance wounds from the 44 mag


Groups from 2 different bullets in the 357 max. Use loads at your own risk they are fine in my rifle.

[Thumbcocker]

Because I can make my ammunition; not just assemble it.

[theleo]

Never been infected by magnumitis but jacketed bullets still have a place in my reloading room. I'm looking forward to the day that I draw my favorite elk tag so I can bloody my dads 45-90 using cast bullets but most of my rifles get J-words. It's just to complicated for me to chase the accuracy and splat that I get with my 22-250 or 280ai when loaded with hollow point J-words and used on Rock chucks and the like. Someday I'll get around to trying them in my 338-06 or my old mans 33 WCF but I'm just not there...yet.

[RU shooter]

For me it was a natural transition , I joined this site to be able to cast and save money shooting my milsurp rifles in our monthly matches along with the added benefit of making my own bullets and using a quarter of the powder ,much lower recoil and still have the same accuracy I could now afford to keep shooting in competition . About that time I was about out of jacketed bullets to reload for my 35 rem for the next deer season . I started reading all the posts in the hunting section and other folks were killing deer just as dead with home made cast bullets so I thought why not . Got a 35 cal mould for it tried a few loads and haven't looked back . Now if I was shooting longer distances I would use jacketed and my 30-06 but I'm not so what I make at home works just as well as or better than any other 200 gr jacketed bullet made for the distance and game that I hunt . Another plus side is a lot less meat damage !

[44man]

I never cast to save, but to get better results and yes, more accuracy then I could buy. You can tailor cast for any game.

[Digital Dan]

'Cause they don't make factory ammo for this thing????