All the Complaining That Goes On About Lee Precision

[jmorris]

If there were one best, we wouldn't have any choices. There is also a butt for every seat, Pintos and Yugo's didn't sell because they were the best cars on the road.

I will admit to not needing all of the reloading equipment that I have (I guess really any of it) but then again I really don't need indoor plumbing a bed or heat and AC. I guess somethings we just become used to enjoying.

[liliysdad]

I have sworn off Lee so many times I have lost count. Every time, I am wooed back by prices..and reminded why each time. The last time was their stupid hand primer....this time, a set of dies.

I needed a set of 223 Ackley dies, and was planning on ordering a set of RCBS or Redding Customs when I stumbled across the Lee set for so, so much less. I thought surely a set of dies will be fine. I used them today for the first time, and in 50 rounds stuck more cases than I have in the last five years combined, maybe ten....No more Lee, no more...

[dragon813gt]

Sticking cases is going to caused an unfinished die or something you're doing wrong. So is the die finished?

[liliysdad]

I havent looked into it that much yet...I struggled through my 50rd I needed loaded, and put it away. As for "doing it wrong," perhaps, but me doing it wrong has been working fine for a long time. Regardless of the reason, this die set wont be getting used again, and a Redding Type S Full Length die will be ordered shortly.

[dragon813gt]

If it's something you're doing then it's not the die's fault. That was my point. At that point the blame is not on Lee. If it's an unfinished die then another one slipped through QC. A member had one a few months back and posted about it.

[liliysdad]

Kinda of hard not to blame LEE when I am doing the exact same thing I do with any other die set without issue. Same die setup, same cases, same case lube, same press, same shell holder, etc.... If, in fact, it is a QC issue..yet another reason to buy something else.

In the end, I will soon have a barely used set of 223 Ackley dies for sale...

[powwowell]

I only reload for handguns. All of my reloading has been done on Lee equipment. Challenger, Classic Turret and a Pro 1000, with associated accessories. It's all worked for me.

There MUST be a bunch of other users with like experiences, or Lee would go out of business, for lack of sales. I've never owned Dillon re-loading equipment, not have I ever owned a Cadillac. But, I've done a lot of re-loading and a lot of riding.

[liliysdad]

Price keeps Lee in business, nothing more. MY latest experience is proof of this....I knew better, but was still lured in by my own inherent cheapness.

[dragon813gt]

Price keeps Lee in business, nothing more. MY latest experience is proof of this....I knew better, but was still lured in by my own inherent cheapness.

You're right. The tens of thousands of satisfied customers and hundreds of thousands of products that work are proof of that.

[No Blue]

Funny part about that is that there are so many opinions that are based on no firsthand experience.

There are Lee bashers that have never owned a Lee product, just the same as there are folks that will spew BS about overpriced Dillon's that have never even seen one in person much less operated one.

Having owned progressives made by Lee, Hornady, RCBS and Dillion, I can find things that I like and dislike about all of them.

That doesn't mean I hate any of them, rather just the fact that none are perfect.

You're right about the Lee bashers; probably 90% have never used any, just what they read.

Dillion is over priced; $375+shipping for a gadget to load both primer sizes into those IED's waiting to happen. That is ridiculous. Consult the Blue Press for other examples.

Stilly, commenter over at Calguns pointed out it's the Dillion owners that are loathed, not the equipment. The presses work OK.

[Tom W.]

I'm not going to look to see if I posted earlier or not, but like most other people I started with Lee stuff. As I progressed I traded off my Lee dies for RCBS, Redding and one Hornady die set, as I found them to be better. I do have several bullet sizing dies and molds, but mainly I have gone to Green on the bench. I never did like the Lee powder measure or the scale, but use the scoops regularly.
I suspect it's what works, not what color. I have used the turret press as well as the
Challenger, and am looking to buy a Lee C press to help with sizing bullets as well as some pistol brass. It isn't junk, and it fills a niche.

[daengmei]

All my Lee junk works fine.

[r1kk1]

I get a kick out of this thread. It's an old thread that is resurrected. It's funny how anything Lee drags Dillon in. Lee bashers, Lee fan boys, whatever. I have bought back in the 80s every press Lee made minus their progressives directly from Lee. Richard backed each purchase with a 30 day money back guarantee. It was used with the only press to stay around was the hand press. The hand press has been replaced with a very nice, well made quality tool. There is NO comparison between the two presses. I love a good made, durable tool. If that makes me a tool snob than so be it. I bought a Load-Fast and it never indexed right. It spent more time traveling back and forth to Lee than on the bench. I got my money back as promised. No thank you but with progressive shotshell loading I will stick with Ponsness Warren or MEC. I thought it was strange that the Lee Load-All was so limited in what it loaded. Being a modular like design I could easily see a .410 or 28 gauge conversion. It won't happen. 410 chambered pistols and numerous Contenders couldn't bring this to the table. I use one shotshell press for 10 gauge to 410. It doesn't matter if the hull is 2-½" long to 3-½" long. One press, six complete toolheads make this happen. I love my SP-10 all the way down to 410. I did write Lee an email to bring a Classic Cast version to the Load-All while maintaining easy gauge conversions. I also remember that bushing changes and power/shot emptying was not easily accomplished with the Load-All. Proprietary bushings all also a negative. I did notice that if you wanted to load 1-⅝ oz loads there was no bushing. I have a bushing adapter that I use for MEC powder bushings so it is much easier to come close to the powder charge I want. 3-½" 12 gauge shells have been around since the 80s and I do load mine for turkey. Love it. I did notice back in the 80s that each single stage and turret I used from Lee that month was educating to say the least. Richard claimed then and now in his book that it would full length size 375 H&H cases. I didn't have his luck as he did. Linkage was the first to go. The same can be said about the Challenger. Out of that time period, the Lee Challenger pre breechlock press lacked decent linkage. It failed doing case forming. It wasn't even radical case forming tasks. More phone calls and parts and back it went. For the longest time, people posted the Lee presses were pot metal. They are not. They are aluminum in the pre CC series. A simple email or phone call will back this up. Too bad. The Challenger frame held up well. The pre steel linkage did not. Anyone with the pre breechlock Challenger should upgrade this part. I don't own any of Lee's progressives or Classic Cast presses. Their isn't a press Lee makes that would shove my progressive or any single stage that I own off my bench. The CC series is a great move for Lee but came way too late when some of us owned cast iron or cast steel presses. I will not own a Lee progressive. I've looked at them but they lack the capabilities of what I need and do. If you load 500 S&W you have to look for a different progressive. I think it is weird that it was available from Custom Services and didn't make it into the production side. I have and still do load from .17 Ackley Hornet or Squirrels to 50-110 Winchester on my progressive. My progressives has loaded well into 6 figures of pistol and rifle ammo and still to this day runs great.

I find it funny how one of my favorite revolvers is a 500 Linebaugh built by Gary Reeder. I love the octagon barrel, cherry grips, the nice engravings found on early Colts as well as the jeweled hammer and trigger. There are only three companies that make dies for this cartridge - CH4D, Hornady and RCBS. RCBS dies did not make it as a choice as they are 1" dies. Doesn't work in a progressive. I have shot wildcat cartridges since the late 70s and keep collecting, loading and shooting them. Lee doesn't make very many dies. I stick to CH4D or RCBS for that task or whatever the gunsmith uses. I will not pay Lee what they want for custom dies.

This is what is currently in my RV. My home collection of barrels far exceed this.



My wife and I hunt and she took a Corsican Ram with her necked down 475 Linebaugh to 45 caliber. She has take Russian boar's with it too. I have taken numerous game and exotics with my Contenders/Encores and revolvers over the years. There is only on standard cartridge barrel there - a 460 S&W. The rest are proprietary or wildcats. The gunsmith chose Hornady dies for his cartridges.

I use two different dies from Lee. A universal decapper die with three different decapping pins. One pin is for subcalibers, the other for small flashholes such as PPC or BR cases and the last is standard. I'm on my second standard decapping pin since the 80s. The die works very well. The other is a universal flaring die. Since I load mainly wildcats, obsolete and proprietary cartridges, it comes in handy to flare the case to ease the bullet seating process. I used it in a 400 GNR wildcat which is a 30-30 blown straight and it is tightly chambered to only allow .400 diameter bullets. The die is not an expanding die. I use expanders for that.

I have a favorite 44 magnum mould from Custom Services side. I have pushed that plain base 255 grain bullet to 1570 fps over a charge of Blue Dot with single digit ES. Great load and extremely accurate to boot. I have quite a few custom six cavity moulds from production and custom side. The Custom Services moulds are so much nicely finished compared to production side. I remember when Lee made moulds from 22 caliber to 50 and it was in the catalog back in the 80s.

When I acquire a new Encore, Contender or Savage 110 barrel, I look for equipment for the project from CH4D, RCBS or elsewhere. Lee is my last choice. I don't care if I'm labeled a tool snob, hater or whatever. I pay for the tool, use it and return it if it doesn't meet my needs. I own far more stuff from Lee's Custom Services side than their production side. I haven't been disappointed in my choice.

take care,

r1kk1

[kmw1954]

I get a kick out of this thread. It's an old thread that is resurrected. It's funny how anything Lee drags Dillon in. Lee bashers, Lee fan boys, whatever.

take care,


r1kk1

Yes I too get a Kick out of all this. 5 years, 14 pages and currently 273 posts that prove absolutely nothing. Opinions and conjecture are what most of this is.

Quite the rant. By the posts I've seen made by you I'd have to say that you are in the elite class of shooter/hand loader and don't fit within the framework of the everyday average shooter. I'm more than happy for you and that the equipment fits and fill your needs but not everyone has the same needs as you do. If I were a commercial artist I wouldn't be buying my paints from Wal-Mart either.

I also find it funny that you start out this rant with another comparison between Lee and Dillon like most seem to do yet throughout this entire 14 pages and 270+ responses there is hardly a mention of any of the RCBS or Hornady progressive presses. I wonder again why that is. Comparing Lee to Dillon is like comparing apple cider to vodka!

Anyways I hope you're feeling better!

[robg]

I use mostly Lee stuff it works and I wouldn't be able to afford half my reloading tools otherwise.have used Lyman and rcbs but he Lee dies,molds,presses and powder measures work well though their scale is not my choice but it does work.lots of guys in my club use Lee products and shoot amazingly well,isn't that the polnt?

[W.R.Buchanan]

R1kk1: it's alright if you mention that the "Quality Tool" you replaced your Lee Hand Press with was a

Buchanan Precision Machine Hand Press.

I don't mind at all.

My tool is not necessarily a tool meant for Tool Snobs (although I welcome them as well.) It was designed to be used. R1kk1 lives in a Motorhome most of the time and my tool works well in that environment due to it's small size and portability. It stores easily.

But I have to tell you guys, that the vast majority of case prep and loading operations I have personally done with my creation has been done with Lee Dies!

Everyone who manufactures Reloading Equipment makes something that is better than the rest. Lee is no exception and with their generally low price point they are a force to be reckoned with. Lee sells more stuff than everyone else combined, and that should tell you something.

Everyone buys and sells based on their personal experiences. But,,, There's a butt for every seat.

Randy

[RogerDat]

Wow I hope my reloading press has the longevity of this thread!

You know when I was just getting started in reloading some guy tried to sell me a Dillon something or other starting at over $500 it had bells, it had whistles. You could push that price way up. If that had been my only choice I would not be reloading.

Do I wish Lee made the Safety Prime in machined aluminum rather than plastic? You bet! Can I actually afford to purchase the plastic one where the aluminum one would be out of reach? Darn right. So I have the plastic Safety Prime and I have run 1,000's of primers through it without issue. Or at least no issues I couldn't fix with a flick of my finger.

Frankly I think there is a diminishing return on increased cost. Buying 20% better cost 3x as much. I like better stuff don't get me wrong, a long term goal is to have nice 4 cavity NOE molds for all calibers I load. But I will and have bought Lee molds to get me started and produced ammo that was superior to store bought at a better price. I can "pay off" the cost of a Lee mold with savings faster than a more expensive mold. Also I can try different weights for $20.

I love it. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside that I can have all this fun at a price that doesn't have my wife all pissed off.

[dikman]

Living in Australia we pay heavily inflated prices for anything from the US (and most other places). Buying Lee stuff from Titan makes it affordable, even with shipping. Yes, I would love a Dillon but by the time I add in all the bits I would need it's out of my price range. Even the odd used Dillon sells for over double the cost of a LoadMaster. The LoadMaster is far from perfect but once sorted it works well enough for me.

[Soundguy]

I cast almost exclusively with lee molds. Very easy to exceed commercial assembly line ammo quality.

[r1kk1]

Yep Randy I'm talking about your press. It goes to the range and hunting with me. It is a fine example of functional art.

Some me people are discussing economics. Here is an example for my revolver:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...duct_list&c=32

How long do you think it covered the cost of me rolling my own on any progressive I can choose complete with all the bells and whistles? Answer is not many boxes. I have obsolete rifle cartridges that cost more than the link showed for some obsolete cartridges.

I can reload stuff like this for a whole lot less than factory ammo of this sort. I can purchase any press and it will pay for itself in the above example within a few boxes. Equipment is amortised over the years you use it. Components cannot, other than brass.

Well my progressive is older than my revolver. It has been with me since the 80s. It has loooong past paying for itself when the first 100k of pistol and rifle ammo rolled off the press in the 90s. I have every shellplate made for the press and it runs flawlessly. I wished dies were cheaper but whatever, some wildcats or obsolete cartridges, dies will cost plenty.

I love good tools. I am a tool snob. If I had to do things over again, I would own the same stuff again. I love my 550, the 375 P/W, Ultramag, Champion, COAX, Summit, Hollywood's. I love my Dillon dies, some dies by other manufactures such as the M die, the Universal decapper from Lee, my custom 6 cavity 44 mag mould.

I love my tools,

as anyone should no matter what they choose.

Take care

r1kk1