An even smaller bullet shooter ?

[skullmount]

Haha - Sounds like Larry has been here and already done it, huh?
And yeah, that #311407 looks like it would work quite nicely. Especially if the gascheck shank were opened up.

nobade,
Yes he has. I would get a PB mould.

Gents,

I contacted Mike at TJ's barrel liners yesterday. I asked him if he could hammer a liner to 1/2 inch OD instead of the 9/16 that he offers (2 are 9/16 and the other is 1/2 OD)

of the things I listed;

Barrels that are available & might work ???
.32-20, bore is .305, groove is .312, twist is 16
.32-40, bore is .315, groove is .323, twist is 16
.32spec, bore is .315, groove is .321, twist is 14

I would really like the 14 twist................ if I did the math right, The greenhill formula works out to just over 15 for the 311407, , but I think I would like to try and lean toward something in the 200 grain area and then the 14 would be a closer fit.

If my math is right and the 14 twist can't be hammered down to 1/2 inch, what will I be giving up as far as bullets I could possibly use if I have to go with the 16 twist....or as I asked in my first post, Am I all wet ? (rich, don't answer that)

Thanks again

[badgeredd]

skullmount,

We have a forum member that may be of some help in your quest. He has tried something very similar in a custom under-hammer pistol. I 'spect he'll chime in soon as I sent him a message about this thread. Unfortunately, I don't know enough details to help but I am sure he will. I do know that he used a barrel with a really fast twist...considering it was for a muzzle-loader.

Edd

[greywuuf]

Well I am going to be Sorta kinda trying this out, as I am putting together an underhammer, and possibly re-boring a barrel for it myself, I have about 10 pounds of #0 buck ( or is it #00 ...at any rate it is the .323" or there abouts stuff) that I plan on shooting out of it one at a time....I will eventually run out, so I plan on a fast enough twist to handle Boolits as well as Balls. maybe by summer time I will have something usefull to add

[451 Pete]

Skullmount,
You may want to keep in mind that the Greemhill formula is sort of a rule of thumb. Using black powder and varying the load chain I would think you should be able to stabilize the same bullet with the slower twist rate. You may not be able to drive your bullet quite as hard though and accuracy may suffer a little at longer ranges.

As has been stated here some have shot bullets from what should be a round ball twist and I have shot round balls with light loads in a Tryon Creedmoor .45 cal. with it's 1-20 barrel twist and shallow groove rifling. They were quite accurate out to 50 yds.

Just my thoughts ... Pete

[skullmount]

Pete,

Being a White ml shooter, all are fast twist compared to most, I am familiar with the practice of varying the load chain. I learned a long time ago, "less is more" compared to what most people want to pour down their barrels today.

I have spent a bit of time in the group buy areas and will be looking for some wtt or wtb bullets soon, as I see a few of the moulds/bullets have been run before & some are coming up for production again real soon here

Stay tuned, I hope to get a call back from Mike at TJ's today

[451 Pete]

skullmount,
Some random thoughts.
I am familiar with the White rifles. They were very well made, and with the proper bullet, very accurate. Doc White didn't try to re-invent the wheel. He just used what he knew already worked and applied it to his rifles.

A barrel liner is a good option to make what you want, if it is installed properly. I have seen them fail in the past if any voids are left between the liner and the barrel wall they are installed in. In other words it has to be done right.

Something that I would not normally recommend to anyone here that may help in this instance with fouling from the smaller diameter barrel is possibly going to small doses of 4 fg powder. With modern steel and not trying to drive it too hard it should work.

Also, I have a mold in the barn that I bought sometime this past year for making bullets for a Mosin Nagant project that I have been playing with. I believe it is the old Lyman 311466 ( I will have to check .... brain fade. ) I have not cast with it yet as brass for 7.62 x 54r is either expensive or hard to come by. At any rate, I can hook you up with some of these when you get a bit further down the road with this project. Give me your patching papers thickness and I may be able to tailor an alloy, or use pure lead , to get you where you would want to go.

Take care ..... Pete

[skullmount]

Pete,

Thaks for the comments, and the offer on the Lyman 311466 bullets.

Mike from TJ's called this afternoon and he can hammer a liner in, 32spec, bore is .315, groove is .321, twist is 14 in 1/2" O.D.


Gents,


I could also use some bullets from a Lyman311407 or NOE mould, or similar bullet that casts out at .314 to .320 or so, preferably in as pure lead as anyone is willing to cast or has, for a fair price.

Thanks !

[Good Cheer]

Goodness gracious that sounds like a lot of fun!

[Plastikosmd]

nanuk and good cheer,
The type of loading method you are talking about has been done in the past and is attributed to Harry Pope. Many of the old cartridge schuetzen rifles shot at the range at Walnut Hill used this method of loading. A loaded case is inserted in the chamber and then the bullet is ran down the barrel from the muzzle to just sit on top of the case.

While this method of loading was known to produce some quite accurate groups I do not believe that any modern range will allow it for safety reasons. Think about it. You are pushing a bullet down on a loaded and primed case and relying on your rifles safety while leaning over the muzzle.

just my thoughts ... Pete

Agree this would feel unsafe. My gun that loads this way uses a breech seater to approximate the case. Load with short starter, push it down to the seater then switch out seater for a case. Still doing some smithing on this gun so not a shooter yet
Pic is with short starter in muzzle, seater below rifle. Bresien barrel 32-40 on ballard

[451 Pete]

A very nice rifle and with the Ken Bresien barrel it should shoot very well. Loading and shooting using the breech seater in that method to replace a loaded case should produce some very fine groups while still being safe. The Ballard has a bit of camming action inherent to it's design also so if any light fouling is still in the barrel or pushed down it loading the bullet , it should still lock up. .... good choice. It looks like your pretty close. Like to see how it does.

Pete

[nanuk]

Wow... that looks heavy

is that a "Bench Gun"?

I can see the hazards of seating a boolit on top of a primed/loaded cartridge. Probably never cause a problem, BUT that one time..... there goes the fingers... perhaps the hand.... and if you were Leaning over it.....

[skullmount]

Great looking project !

Would that have a 16 twist ?

[Plastikosmd]

Thx guys, I am more of a heavy rb or slug gun guy. This came to me as is. The action is off a gallery type rifle. Did some research and found the cast action would not have been up to the task, even a 32-40. To be safe I sourced a forged action, fit the old action into the new breech block( wanted to stay w double set). Plan to get it case colored, some additional finish work and should be set. Weight, not sure, this is my lightest in this type of gun, maybe 25 lbs?

[skullmount]

Came home yesterday and a box from TJ's was on the kitchen table.

Now to get the liner squared up and cut/fit to length. Then the devcon and breech plug conversion.

........some bullets on the way I still need some other bullets to try, something in the .315 to .318 area in lead, 160 to 200 grains

[DIRT Farmer]

Skullmount I checked the mould # is 311-407. The 0.314 sizing die does not quite clean it up. I wieghs in at 190 grns with GC and lube. If you are interested, I will cast a few in pb and see were they come out.
Alan

[skullmount]

Skullmount I checked the mould # is 311-407. The 0.314 sizing die does not quite clean it up. I wieghs in at 190 grns with GC and lube. If you are interested, I will cast a few in pb and see were they come out.
Alan

Thank You !

[skullmount]

Well just to update, I ordered this mould from Tom at Accurate;
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=32-205M-D.png

And this one from Al at NOE;
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=134164

I got the liner fitted this evening. Descriptions are above pics. Sorry about the glare/focus issues.

Squaring up the liner.


Masking tape for length.


For length, flush with muzzle.


Again.

[Underclocked]

Carl, don't forget a smaller ramrod.

[skullmount]

Carl, don't forget a smaller ramrod.

UC,
A couple weeks back I stopped in to see Anson Morgan at Kenockee Trading Post in Avoca, MI
We had "show & tell", I took 1 of those pretty White shotguns to show him, the broken Javelina and we talked about "this" project. I picked up a loading rod w/ muzzle thingy with the intention of buying it and a jag.................he talked me out of it. He was concearned that the brass muzzle thingy would slide right off the end of the rod & over the jag.......also wanted to "size" the jag for the patch & bore........... I agreed to go back and see him once its together and we might even throw a few boolits downrange.

For any of the guys that live within the "I'll drive that far for great service & good advice" check him out.

[Underclocked]

Maybe he could make you some inserts for the current thimbles so the little rod won't be banging around and falling out?? Or he might have some smaller thimbles that would work.

Does that insert fit right up against the breech plug facing?