Using oooold powder, do you find it does not meter as well as current equivelents?

[15meter]

Just finished off the last of some pre-zip code H110, so I'm assuming it's WWII surplus from Hodgdon. I had been loading recent mfg. Winchester 296 with zero problems. With about every third box, I had to pull the bar from the MEC Grabber and clean the bar and bracket it slides in or it would stick and hang up.

Switched to what I believe is same vintage 2400, and I'm experiencing the same thing or worse.

Does the newer powder have more graphite on it to help with progressive presses? Or just my imagination?

By the way, I'm loading 1/2 ounce .410 skeet loads. I've loaded thousands of rifle cartridges with 16 grains of 2400 run through a Redding 3-BR with zero problems. It is the sliding bar that is giving me fits.

I've cleaned it repeatedly, waxed the bar and the bracket repeatedly, to me it points to abrasive powder.

Anybody else experience similar, or am I the only one left trying to burn up 80 year old powder?

Any guesses?

[hoodat]

You're not the only one with ancient powder, but ya might be the only one using a mec/chrarge bar with it.

I'm still using some of the old surplus 4831 and 380, but I use a Uniflow powder measure. - no problem.

I think I'd try applying graphite powder from time to time on the top of the charge bar.

[turtlezx]

sand and polish the bar down give it some free play

[15meter]

sand and polish the bar down give it some free play

It has been, it moves freely immediately after cleaning. As I start loading first and second box no problems, by third box it is sticking 10% of the time, by the fourth box, probably 40% of the time.

The powder is not damp, it shows no difference under a 10x loupe with current manufactured powder. I'm actually considering putting a half a teaspoon graphite into the pound and a half of 2400 I have left and mixing it well to see if that makes any difference.

I just changed from .410 to 12 gauge. I'm currently loading 14 grains of Perfect Pattern a new powder from Hodgdon. Similar to 2400. It is measuring like a dream. First 3 boxes, not a single hung bar.

I'm beginning to convince myself that there is a difference in certain older powders. Over the last several years I have loaded probably 30-40 pounds of 40+ year old powder. A couple of other old shotgun powders exhibited the same binding. Stuff like old Alcan powders or black steel can 700X. The ancient cardboard can Hercules Green Dot that I loaded last year was no problem.

And too much "free play" and you get lots of powder leakage across the top of the bar.

[hoodat]

Now I get to thinking about it, I may have experienced a similar problem quite a while back with ancient Bullseye. I was using it for tiny loads in 32 S&W with my RCBS Uniflow, and it was getting "smudgy" on the rotor. Next time I went with a dose of new HP-38 with similar charge and -- no problem. jd

[Cast10]

Had some old W231 in the round cardboard can/bottle. Loaded some shells. Thought the velocity was a bit low. Went and bought a new pound, SAME. The OLD batch was from the 90’s.

Stored inside the house in the office closet.

[15meter]

Loaded up a dozen boxes of 12 gauge over the last couple of days with new Hodgdon Perfect Pattern. A very fine powder not completely unlike the H110 and the 2400.

Dozen boxes, zero bar hanging up. I'm getting more convinced all the time that the older powder either didn't have as much graphite on it, or it has degraded to a certain extent. The chronograph doesn't show any degradation in performance.

[725]

I was just given some old powder and once I saw that it covered my equipment with a rust dust, it was sent out to fertilize my garden.

[Delkal]

H-110 is a fine powder so if you are getting jamming it is because the grains are getting in between the charge bar and its housing. The MEC bars tend to have some play and depending on the vintage some bars have more play than others.

I would try coating the bar and housing with graphite (not wax) but if you are getting powder in between it might not work. Another option would be some type of shim.

[15meter]

H-110 is a fine powder so if you are getting jamming it is because the grains are getting in between the charge bar and its housing. The MEC bars tend to have some play and depending on the vintage some bars have more play than others.

I would try coating the bar and housing with graphite (not wax) but if you are getting powder in between it might not work. Another option would be some type of shim.

The issue isn't so much H110, it's between very old powder, think WWII surplus and current MFG. I had been using current production W-296 and when that jug was empty started on a can of pre-zip code H110. That is when the issue began. The H110 is all loaded, so until another old buddy croaks and I end up with another antique can at least that issue is gone. The problem just moved on to the same vintage 2400. I'm using the prescribed brass washer from MEC, I even read the directions and installed it with the little bumps in the right direction. This can may get delegated to rifle calibers only. It meters through my Redding's with no problems.

Just interesting that new powder meters so much better than old powder.

[15meter]

I was just given some old powder and once I saw that it covered my equipment with a rust dust, it was sent out to fertilize my garden.

If it was IMR powder, that was probably rust off the inside of the can, it would have had no effect on the powder. I've had several of the steel 1 pound cans that rusted and left a cloud of red dust. I transferred the powder to newer style powder plastic canisters and solved the problem. I poured the powder back and forth between two large pots several times when I was outside in a light breeze. You could see the red dust disappear across the yard.

I think it was either powder that could have been washed one more time or poorly tinned cans. Most likely poorly tinned cans.

[Delkal]

If it was IMR powder, that was probably rust off the inside of the can, it would have had no effect on the powder. I've had several of the steel 1 pound cans that rusted and left a cloud of red dust. I transferred the powder to newer style powder plastic canisters and solved the problem. I poured the powder back and forth between two large pots several times when I was outside in a light breeze. You could see the red dust disappear across the yard.

I think it was either powder that could have been washed one more time or poorly tinned cans. Most likely poorly tinned cans.

Chances are that powder will continue to make red dust since once the inhibitors are used up the remaining acid catalyzes the powder's decomposition. There are many reports of decomposing powder shooting just fine but I would not leave the ammo loaded for long term storage. Load it up and blast away.

[mfraser264]

Have used both flake and ball powder recently from the 1960's. The Unique and Green Dot metered as well as modern. Working now with some older Hodgdon ball powder from a 1 pound paper bag(1950's?). Dropped a bullet in it. Digging it our left my fingers nicely coated with graphite. Meters beautifully. Performed wonderfully at the range. Only if there was more in the bag!

[Shawlerbrook]

Redding and Lyman 55’s with no problem

[Martin Luber]

Old powder with red dust has decomposed, may not burn at the same rate, and can experience spontaneous combustion. Sad to say it but dispose of it promptly. Don’t burn it like Wayne Mays did, and died

[Sgt H]

Thought I would add something here that I found to help with smooth operation of shot shell loader charge bars and powder measures. I spray the sliding surfaces with boolit casting mold dropout. I found this especially helpful with the aluminum charge bars as it seems to prevent any tendency to gall. I will add I don't use the stuff on my molds after trying it but glad I found another use for it. You will have to renew the coating periodically.

[jonp]

Not really. I have some 30yr old powder that works as well as new stuff. The biggest difference to me is flake vs ball.