Fillers for paper patched 45-70 gov

[JosieGun]

Lots depends on the cartridge build. I load black powder fueled bore rider paper patched slicks for the 45-70 single shots, as seen in the wad stack image above. BP loads are easy, just fill up the case with only powder or powder and however many wads are needed - never any significant air space, and there's no concern about pressure issues for the very most part. Smokeless is a way more critical powder than smokeless and has very specific load criteria that's typically in a narrow range. Though I do load smokeless for times when I'm not allowed to shoot black, I'm real careful about the smokeless components and arrive at loads that are well developed. But I won't stick anything inside a smokeless load other than powder and a projectile, until positive evidence from reliable testing shows that loose fillers in smokeless loads is as safe as without the fillers.

[303Guy]

I've been using dacron as a powder positioner, not a filler. It takes less than 1/2 grain, fluffed out. I cannot see how what is basically air space can cause an issue - which doesn't mean it can't. Sometimes the dacron will blow out as loose fibers and sometimes it will melt into a little bead. That is load dependant, not random differences in behaviour. My question would be whether it was safe to have the powder lying up front against the bullet when fired? On the other hand, one doesn't want the powder to migrate into the fluffed up positioner. So I don't know what's best. I just want to avoid the power being up front at firing.

[tangolima]

I've been using dacron as a powder positioner, not a filler. It takes less than 1/2 grain, fluffed out. I cannot see how what is basically air space can cause an issue - which doesn't mean it can't. Sometimes the dacron will blow out as loose fibers and sometimes it will melt into a little bead. That is load dependant, not random differences in behaviour. My question would be whether it was safe to have the powder lying up front against the bullet when fired? On the other hand, one doesn't want the powder to migrate into the fluffed up positioner. So I don't know what's best. I just want to avoid the power being up front at firing.

That's why I prefer toilet paper to Dacron. It doesn't mix with the powder kernels. They will stay on top of the flash hole.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[JosieGun]

When I started loading buckshot shells some kernels of powder would get trapped on the side of the wad, no matter how tight the fit of the wad to the shell wall, like a piston to an engine cylinder. That was stopped by using a square of paper towel on the bottom of the wad before pushing it home onto the powder charge. No more migrating powder kernels.

How any loose fillers will always totally stop the migration of at least some powder kernels into the filler doesn't seem likely. AA calls their 5744 powder as not position sensitive. I shot a fair amount of 25 grains of that powder in a .45-70 case behind 528 to 543 grain greased bullets and never noticed powder position sensitivity as remarked by group sizes, but surely other powders might register negatively on the target unless the bbl is tilted up before aiming and pulling the trigger.

Until someone of guncrank credential repute blesses the use of loose fillers in smokeless loads, I'm shy for going that route. I sure hope my negativity is totally wrong.

That's an added reason why I like going black, and better yet black and bore riders.

[303Guy]

Yeah. I do have my reservations but as you say, until some expert can say with certainty that holding the gun pointing downward with the powder lying on the boolit base will behave not differently to powder held against the primer. So, in the meantime, when I want to fire a test load into my boolit catcher vertically down, I'll use that dacron powder positioner. For field and range use? I still have that question. Mind you - for range use, the loaded cartridge sits boolit up until chambered and fired.

I did once have an issue with bullseye in a 303 Brit with light patched boolits. Accuracy was superb. However, the fired cases would not extract. I was using wheat bran as a filler. Don't do that. It wasn't going to hurt the rifle in any way but this particular rifle had rust pits in the neck area of the chamber. While normal, full house loads of H4350 under a 194 gr boolit would shoot fine with moderate pressure, that light shotgun powder load was expanding the case neck into those rust pits. My take is: Do not underestimate what powders can do. But man those loads were accurate! Had the rifle not had those rust pits, i would never have known about that pressure wave in the neck area. Chamber ringing ring a bell? The pun was not deliberate. If only I was that clever.

[David todd]

I have had excellent success with wasp nest as a positioner and/or filler, in all my rifles have used with light to medium charges of smokeless powder including my 8.15X46R Shuetzen, my 9.3X72r drilling, and my 38/55
Cat

[pull the trigger]

Hello this is my first post here and I was curious on proper fillers to use in smokeless PP bullets. I shoot a 45-70. (Load at the bottom if curious) I'm a rookie when it comes to this. I worried that my lube (50% beeswax/ 50% Vaseline) contaminat my powder when I tilt the cartridge so I was curious on the best fillers but I know some fillers to use. I know it has to be non-compressible. Like cream of white or cornmeal. The one I saw by Iraqveteran8888 was polyester stuffing In bp load and was curious if i could use it in my smokeless powder load.

I would love to get advice on this l. I look forward to hearing from you guys.

If your curious i shoot a .451. 415 grain bullet. patched with .008 glassine paper

I believe the lube is that actual issue he is worried about. I also believe folks were using paste wax as a dry lube on the paper with good success. Is that still working?

[JosieGun]

I believe the lube is that actual issue he is worried about. I also believe folks were using paste wax as a dry lube on the paper with good success. Is that still working?

There is NO need to "lube" PPB paper, unless after loading in a cartridge some measure of "waterproofing" of the paper is required during wet weather hunting/shooting. The paper "jacket" (yes, this is the same intention as a gilded copper jacketed bullet) is the interface between the bullet alloy and the innards (rifling) of the bore. Upon ignition the bullet (slick) obturates and the paper is the insulator that rides the rifling, only to be expelled as confetti out the muzzle.

[HWooldridge]

Delete.

[john.k]

I was putting a drop of oil on patched bullets ,as it seems to fix the paper more solidly to the bullet ,and stop the base paper unwinding

[JosieGun]

I was putting a drop of oil on patched bullets ,as it seems to fix the paper more solidly to the bullet ,and stop the base paper unwinding

That's the last thing I'd wanna do - stick the paper to the PPB - makes stripping off as it leaves the muzzle kinda iffy.

For both .45-70 and .44 Magnum I do long and dry paper twist tails that I cut off at the base with flush cutters. Works perfectly every shot.