I won't give up on Lee 200gr SWC in 1911 - but I'm sure struggling

[gidaeon]

Short version: this is kicking my butt - but I'm committed to make the mold I got work. I tried to review the search SWC result prior to my first dummy round attempt. I'm hoping someone out there has made SWC work in a Tisas 1911.

Problem: reliable feeding from slide drop; the case mouth gets torn up or at least a dent in the case 1/4" below case mouth
Gun: Tisas 1911 .45 Government; Magazine: Mec-gar with WC feed lips
Boolit: Lee 452-200-SWC PC'd sized .452 (Lee needs to fix their sizing dies up to true spec though)

Seating depth.: started at 1.245 worked down to 1.201
Crimp: .471-.4685

Tests:
BAD 1.24 .471 turn case mouth
BAD 1.235 .469 dented below case mouth
BAD 1.224 .469 torn case mouth
1.209 .4685 fed 5 times then bad tore case mouth

Suggestions? I fell in love with SWC for .38 reloads but this semi .45 is beating me and I don't want to waste the mold and go to 230gr ball and waste the little lead I have.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I seat to 1.200” in a Rock Island commander, and have never had a hiccup. It could be your gun.

[waksupi]

I'd like to see a photo of your loaded round. The bullet should have just a thumbnail's worth sticking out of the case.

Try asking on this board, lots of Tisa owners. It looks like you aren't the only one with feed problems. My Rock Island eats anything I feed it.

https://www.1911forum.com/

https://www.1911forum.com/search/603...feed+problem&c[showFilter]=visibleOnly&o=relevance

[gidaeon]

IMG_2660.jpg

In approximate order from shortest to longer.

[Dusty Bannister]

Looks like a bit of flare has been left when seating and taper crimping and the unsupported case mouth is catching as it is chambered. Are you taking a micrometer reading at the case mouth or just behind the case mouth where the case was not expanded by the flare?

[gidaeon]

I’m attempting to take it right at the case mouth, but am no
expert with getting just the edge. Any tips welcomed.

Also I am not crimping with seating die at all - just the FCD.

[gidaeon]

Also, is it unreasonable to expect these dummies to feed multiple times without damage once they are properly configured? Or are SWC in semiauto kind of test once only deal?

[gidaeon]

Here is plunk with barrel hood fit

IMG_2661.jpg

And extractor hold view since some say a poorly adjusted extractor can contribute to feed issues:
IMG_2662.jpg

[Slugster]

If you are putting a taper crimp on the rounds and they are in 'spec' as to diameter, I would look at the feed ramp. Might need to relieve the edge a little.

Check to see if the cases feed easily under the lip of the extractor. The extractor being too tight a fit on the case rim could be hanging up the cartridge just enough to throw off the timing of the slide feeding a cartridge when going into battery.

Good luck.

[Gtek]

Have you checked the distance at top of feed ramp transition to barrel face at 6 O'clock? Lock slide back and push back on barrel, you should see in the neighborhood of 0.020" to 0.025" of frame top from top of ramp to barrel bottom. Also looking at back of barrel bottom chamber ramp, does ramping into chamber look 5-7 or more 3-9?

[wv109323]

What is causing the tear in the case mouth? Is it the bottom lip of the barrel or is it the barrel hood?
Take the top end off the pistol. Put the barrel only on the frame with the slide stop pin. Cam the barrel back. Look to see if the bottom barrel lip overhangs the feed ramp. There should be 1/32" between the frame and the bottom barrel lip when barrel is cammed back. Also make sure the barrel is sitting flat on the frame.( Barrel too high)
With the pistol assembled, drop the first round while pushing up on the magazine. Is there upward play in the magazine when it is in the frame?
My guess: The cases with the dent 1/4" back is being caused when the round is trying to slip up under the extractor. The torn cases mouths( assuming it is the bottom barrel lip) is from 1.) barrel overhanging the feed ramp 2.) magazine too high or too low ( caused by mag release) 3.) magazine lips releasing point 4.) Barrel not sitting down on frame when the barrel is cammed back.
A picture of the malfunction would help. The picture of rounds looks like the boolits are seated too deep. Leave about 1/32 to 1/16" of the bullet above the case mouth.
I assume that you have tried different magazines.

[Winger Ed.]

In years past, there was lots of discussion about how important throating and polishing the lower part of
the chamber mouth on the barrel to get reliable feeding, especially with cast.

I've shot a few thousand of the Lee 200 SWS in my Gold Cup that came with a throated chamber,
and I polished it to look like a mirror. It fed all the 200s flawlessly.

[Bigslug]

You've got as close a copy of the HG 68 bullet - which was intended to trick the gun into thinking it's feeding hardball - as could be hoped for.

I would go over your cartridges with a set of calipers and the blueprint of a .45 ACP cartridge close at hand for comparison.

Insufficient taper crimp has been the bane of my .45 chambering issues. Suffice to say I fixate on finished case mouth diameter now. By your plunk check you have that under control, but best to let the measurements speak.

I would also consider ditching the WC-lipped magazines in favor of the classic GI, tapered-lip profile. These allow true Mauser-like, controlled feeding, allowing the cartridge to pivot more freely and be handed gradually from magazine to extractor.

Generally, the 1911 will feed better with a longer cartridge to near the limit of what the magazine will allow. The trick with SWC's is keeping the WC shoulder clear of the rifling throat

[Gtek]

Probably would help all around pulling that extractor and radius and polish bottom just cause.

[jsizemore]

Take the recoil spring out of the pistol. Stick the dummy round in the mag and insert into pistol with the slide back. Grip the pistol with both hands like your going to shoot it and use your thumbs at the back of the slide to move the slide forward. Look down into the ejection port and determine what your hang up is. Most times with a SWC the transition from the feed ramp to the chamber can have a sharp edge and that needs to be SLIGHTLY radiused. You don't want to cut enough to leave the case head unsupported. Could be your breech face is rough or the case rim isn't snapping up easily behind the extractor. I use an H&G 68 with an OAL of 1.262 and crimped mouth diameter of .470. Plunks 100% of the time in and out without assistance. Pistols are Caspian with a Kart NM barrel and a near stock Norinco.

How does it shoot factory ball? I started casting and loading for the 1911 because of the setback that can occur. Scores went way up.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't use that design anymore, but it is one of the best for feeding in 1911's. As waksupi hinted, your rounds may be too short.

The meplat on a H&G 068, which your Lee is a clone of, is supposed to mimic the profile of a 230 grain FMJ for feeding purposes.

The old school way of setting oal was to let a bit of the shoulder protrude from the case. I have heard anywhere from half a thumbnail to the thickness of a dime (not many people had precision measuring tools then).

To set the crimp, forget about the Lee factory crimp die for now, just use the taper crimp that is in the seating die. We used to set them by running a factory hardball round into the die and screwing the die body down until it made contact.

Next step is to run the seating stem down to seat your projectile to the desired depth.

I know it sounds a bit fiddly, but in reality it doesn't take very long at all.

Untold millions, (maybe billions) of H&G 068 bullets were cast and loaded before Lee brought out the factory crimp die. I really don't think they are absolutely necessary.

Robert

[405grain]

It doesn't look like you've got a bullet problem. Instead it looks like you have a gun problem. Something's not right on the feeding. Before you go to work on things like the feed ramp or barrel throat you need to find out specifically what it is that's causing your cartridges to hang up. It could be something as simple as the feed lips on the magazine, or as complicated as the mechanics of the barrel, receiver, and slide interactions. There appears to be a dent on the nose of the bullets where they are striking against something. This might be an improper angle against the feed ramp, or it could be something else like the nose of the bullet striking the inside of the chamber because the cartridge is being held at too sharp of an angle. The tearing of the case mouth shows that the cartridge is hanging up against something, and then the slide is slamming it home. The dent in the case wall also indicates that the cartridge is still at an angle as the slide forces it into the chamber.

In addition to watching closely what is happening while you slowly close the slide by hand, another gunsmith trick is to paint a dummy cartridge black with a Sharpie and then release the slide stop to snap the action closed. Then eject the dummy and inspect to see all the areas where the Sharpie has been scraped off. It's helpful when doing this if you have the markings on the case head facing up so that you can tell the orientation of which parts are interfering. Only after you are confident of what is actually going on should you progress to working on the gun.

[Ia.redneck]

I agree with GTEK, had the same problems.
Having that little gap between barrel and feed ramp to feed swc is critical

[gidaeon]

Does this gap between ramp and barrel appear correct? I’m not sure how to measure it. I’m rereading all posts and trying to understand.

I like the idea of “painting” the dummy with marker to see where it’s rubbed off as well as slow feeding with out recoil spring.

IMG_2666.jpg

IMG_2667.jpg

IMG_2668.jpg

[Four-Sixty]

I have found with my four Tisas, and this same mold, 1.250” OAL was a must. They look odd, but work like a champ! These loads look too short to me.