Longshot powder and the 40 S&W

[barnetmill]

I picked up a like new used Glock model 22 a couple years ago and want to use it on my place for protection against all that slithers or walks on two and four legs. Florida is the local and my various 9mms are ok for up to 2-legged critters, but sort of lacking for a typical 150-300 black bear.
Enter the 40 cal. Why did I chose it it. The price was right and someone gave me 30 lbs of brass for it and glocks are rugged reliable pistols. I have a 5 5/8" barrel on it also and extra strong recoil springs.

Questions: I am looking at bullets in 135 to 140 grain range. Specifically the 140 grain lehigh extreme penetrator. And I also have 135 grain nosler hollow points. I plan to use Hodgdon long shot Powder.
These charges are from the hodgdon website for reloading. https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

Bullet: 135 GR. NOS JHP max load is 11.5gr 1,434fps 31,900 PSI

While go up just five grains more in bullet wt to an all copper Bullet: 140 GR. BAR TAC-XP and powder charge is drastically reduced
Bullet: 140 GR. BAR TAC-XP max load is 7.0 1,185 31,400 PSI
My guess is the decreased powder volume and the harder all copper bullet is the reason that powder charges are decreased with the all copper bullets.
I am going to substitute the 140 gr Lehigh extreme penetrators for 140 gr BAR TAC-XP as a general purpose field load for critters and 2-legged life forms and try to reach 1200 fps in the plus 5 inch barrel that is on the gun.
Does anyone see any serious flaws in trying to reach that objective or other observations?

Lehigh 140 grain extreme penetrators.
Screenshot 2025-08-22 at 23-06-43 400 diameter 140 grain Xtreme Penetrator Bullets (100 count).png

Barnes Tac-xp 140 grain
Screenshot 2025-08-22 at 23-13-02 0.400 40 S&W _ 10MM TAC-XP - Barnes Bullets.jpg

I have 180 grain hollow points from speer gold dot, hornady, etc but I do not think that they will penetrate as deeply as the extreme penetrators in a black bear. I have considered loading up 180 FMJ, and I am still considering that. I have an old lyman mold for a 200 grain bullet that may be 40 cal that could also be an option.

[billmc2]

Here is the link to Lehigh's load data:
https://lehighdefense.com/ld-load-data

[barnetmill]

Here is the link to Lehigh's load data:
https://lehighdefense.com/ld-load-data

Thanks. I see that there is no pressure given for the loads. LONGSHOT 6.0 930 7.5 1,115

[barnetmill]

After thinking it over I am going to go with Hornady XTP 200 grain bullets intended for the 10 mm. At 40 S&W impact velocites the expansion should not be a whole lot and I should get the penetration that is needed in black bear, just have to know that there will likely be pass through on a human target. I will use the Hodgdon data that has a reputation of being conservative. My barrel is after market and should give better support than is the case with the typical OEM Glock barrel. For the solid copper bullets I will keep looking for more data and when I feel that I can safety load to at least 1250 fps, I will load them. That is the velocity that underwood loads are reported to achieve by end users.

Bullet: 200 GR. HDY XTP Diameter: 0.400" Case: Hornady Primer: Winchester SP, Small Pistol
6.0 954 32,500 PSI for a 4 inch barrel and mine is 5 and 5/8 inches so I should get about 1050 fps.

I will do a search to see how this bullet does in gel relative to expansion.

[billmc2]

After thinking it over I am going to go with Hornady XTP 200 grain bullets intended for the 10 mm. At 40 S&W impact velocites the expansion should not be a whole lot and I should get the penetration that is needed in black bear, just have to know that there will likely be pass through on a human target.

I don't have a 40 cal of anything, so I don't know if it is comparable. I have a box of 200 gr XTP in 45 cal. It says on the box that the velocity range is 700 - 1500 fps. It says the same thing on a couple of, different weight, 9mm that I have. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I seem to remember reading that Hornady engineers their bullets to get 1.5 times diameter for expansion.

I don't have any experience with bears, but I don't think I'd be using the XTP on them. I have nonexpanding cast bullets in my guns. I'm in the FL panhandle (not sure how far from you). I haven't seen any of the bears myself yet, but I have a friend that captured video from a doorbell camera of one. It was night and to me seemed to be a pretty good size bear.

[barnetmill]

I don't have a 40 cal of anything, so I don't know if it is comparable. I have a box of 200 gr XTP in 45 cal. It says on the box that the velocity range is 700 - 1500 fps. It says the same thing on a couple of, different weight, 9mm that I have. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I seem to remember reading that Hornady engineers their bullets to get 1.5 times diameter for expansion.

I don't have any experience with bears, but I don't think I'd be using the XTP on them. I have nonexpanding cast bullets in my guns. I'm in the FL panhandle (not sure how far from you). I haven't seen any of the bears myself yet, but I have a friend that captured video from a doorbell camera of one. It was night and to me seemed to be a pretty good size bear.

Bullet boxes claim all sorts of optimistic things. I watch a lot of bullet tests in Gel which is not the same as a bear for sure. Most bullets, especially when fired into layers of denim at 800 fps do not expand. As they get above 900 things start to happen, but the denim or a bear's pelt will clog the hollow point and diminish expansion. 1050 fps is really on the low end for 10mm bullet expansion. Bears have been near me and also leaving my property boundaries. I live in Pace. If I have time my first go to is a shotgun. IF I have a lot more time it will be likely a PTR-91.
There are exceptions, but many trouble making bears will be 300 lbs or less. This is based on bears that I know about that have attacked people or killed in florida and then killed by FWC. Small sample size. Record bears can exceed 600 lbs in FL and those are older and smarter bears. Under 300 lbs is about the wt of a big human. The gun must also double for defense against humans that are the greatest threat. Bears are a much lesser threat so I am going to use a compromise.
Anyway I have precise data for the 200 grain XTP and will go it for now I think. I can change as I know more. The speer that being bonded is likely a better bullet, but I have so far not found any good data for the 40 case. The same is true for most cast bullets. The 40 is a very small volume case and does not take much when seating a long bullet to up pressures a lot.

The bullet below has no crimping grooves and is round nose. It should behave the same as fmj and make a small hole and just on through
There is ''hard cast'' the

ACME 40 (.401) 200gr RN BULLET NLG COATED 100/BX are made from certified 92-6-2 alloy and are then cured in HiTek coating. The benefits to these bullets are numerous and include; the coating molecularly bonds to the bullet completely encapsulating it.
Screenshot 2025-08-23 at 21-37-25 ACME 40 (.401) 200gr RN BULLET NLG COATED 100_BX - Graf & Sons.png

[justindad]

You may not get reliable expansion of a 200 gr bullet in the .40 S&W, even with Longshot. Shoot ten of them into appropriate media and check for expansion. Consider also the muzzle blast, if you are using Longshot for home defense.
*
True Blue with a 200 grain lead bullet or Silhouette with a 155 grain XTP are worth looking at.

[barnetmill]

You may not get reliable expansion of a 200 gr bullet in the .40 S&W, even with Longshot. Shoot ten of them into appropriate media and check for expansion. Consider also the muzzle blast, if you are using Longshot for home defense.
*
True Blue with a 200 grain lead bullet or Silhouette with a 155 grain XTP are worth looking at.

Thanks for the information

I need to see the powder charge and pressure from a reliable source. Do you have such data along with pressure, bullet seating depth, overall length. I do not want to experiment with a low volume cartridge like a 40. Pressures climbs quickly. I will still use a micrometer to measure the cases regardless of origin of the loads.

I do not want a lot of expansion and will not mind if the bullet tumbles a bit. I am using the bullet because I have what I consider to be safe data for it use.
Will 6 grains of longshot behind a 200 grain jacketed bullet in 5 5/8 inch barrel likely to give a large muzzle flash. I will find out since I have an indoor place under the house for shooting. I just got them in yesterday from midway.
For a 135 grain nosler bullet the load is 11.5 grains of longshot 1,434 31,900 PSI. That will likely give a good flash.

[nicholst55]

Just curious, what Generation is your Glock? They have made substantial chamber mods to their .40 S&W barrels since the bad old days. The old 'Glock smiley' face on fired brass is pretty much a thing of the past - unless one chooses for it not to be.

Glock 40.jpg CaseSupport2-1.jpg

[barnetmill]

Just curious, what Generation is your Glock? They have made substantial chamber mods to their .40 S&W barrels since the bad old days. The old 'Glock smiley' face on fired brass is pretty much a thing of the past - unless one chooses for it not to be.

Glock 40.jpg CaseSupport2-1.jpg

G22 and Gen 3, but with after market barrel lone wolff barrel.
I have seen posts elsewhere on other forums by individuals claiming that with well supporting barrels that pistols could take very hot loads. With plastic frame glocks that is not something that I would want to try. While the slide, barrel, and locking block are steel, the locking block is supported by a plastic frame. Not something I want to try. With a steel frame gun my opinion might change.
I also have a special push through sizing die. My major supply cases were fired through some sort 1911 and I have not yet inspected them in detail, but did not notice any smiles on them. I also have a lot of range brass.

[justindad]

Here’s some data:

IMG_1011.jpg

IMG_1012.jpg

I drove 155 gr XTP and 200 gr XTP using Silhouette and a 4.7” P320. I ran the 155 gr XTP with Longshot. I ran that 200gr RCBS a tad over 1,000 fps using True Blue. Silhouette is by far the softest shooting of those combos, and my velocity was 50-ish fps below the published data. I did not chrono the 155 gr XTP with Longshot, but it was by far the heaviest kicker. I had some cases get stuck in my barrel with Longshot at the max book load, but not with the other powders.

[barnetmill]

Here’s some data:

IMG_1011.jpg

IMG_1012.jpg

I drove 155 gr XTP and 200 gr XTP using Silhouette and a 4.7” P320. I ran the 155 gr XTP with Longshot. I ran that 200gr RCBS a tad over 1,000 fps using True Blue. Silhouette is by far the softest shooting of those combos, and my velocity was 50-ish fps below the published data. I did not chrono the 155 gr XTP with Longshot, but it was by far the heaviest kicker. I had some cases get stuck in my barrel with Longshot at the max book load, but not with the other powders.

Good data. I have it entered into my file for reloading 40 S&W
The True blue for themoment is not an option since Hodgdon is out of stock.
I look at their data for the 200 grain jacketed bullet that I am looking at:
Ramshot True Blue
1.125" 5.4 802 29,000 PSI 6.0 891 32,200 PSI Out of Stock
Hodgdon Longshot

1.125" 5.0 836 23,900 PSI 6.0 954 32,500 PSI

Long shot overall is a very good powder for semi-auto pistols. Your experience of over pressure with long shot is one reason I am being careful with what I do. If there is sticky extraction something is wrong for sure.
I do have a few progressive shotgun powders and I have new 1 lb bottle of HS-6 that I picked for doing buckshot loads. I had to drive across the Florida-Alabama State line to Bass Pro to get it in Fairhope. AL. On I-10 it is a short trip.

Eventually I want a bullet similar to the ''that 200gr RCBS a tad over 1,000 fps using True Blue. '' since it has a flat meplat or nose. For now I will go with what I got; by next spring I will be looking into that lead flat nose RCBS and similar bullets. If I can figure a way to put a holosun optic on my P14 paraordnance .45 ACP I would load that to plus P to about 950 fps with a 250-260 blunt nose bullet. Tim Sundles of buffalo bore says that it is superior to even the very best 10mm loads for black bear.

[barnetmill]

Below is what an XTP looks like when fired through denim into gel blocks

The bullet tumbles and gives about 22'' or more of penetration. An expanding bullet penetrates a lot less. Partially deformed one tumbles. Many do not know that a long tumbling pistol bullet makes a severe wound. The Brits of Dum Dum bullet fame deliberately design their version of the 38 S&W to tumble. It was fired at a very low velocity.

3,063 views Oct 29, 2012
200 gr XTP over 7.7 gr 800-X with an impact velocity of 1,037 fps. Four layers of denim. BB cal: 600.3 fps, 3.25"

Penetration: 22.5"
No notable expansion
Retained weight: 199.4 gr

I actually shot the block with this load three times and the denim caused the bullet to fail to expand all three times. The first two shots actually left the blocks AND the water jug behind. The last shot yawed 180 degrees and came to a rest just short of leaving the block

.

Gel test: 10mm 200 gr XTP @ 1037 fps gelatin test
Screenshot 2025-08-29 at 23-09-42 Gel test 10mm 200 gr XTP @ 1037 fps gelatin test - YouTube.png

[shooting on a shoestring]

Barnetmill, maybe you already know but I’ll throw in that cast boolits shoot faster than copper jacketed or solid copper for the same pressure. The lead simply seals the bore better so there is less blow-by of the driving gas. Also, lubed lead has significantly less friction against the bore. Generally, you can pick up 50-100 fps more velocity with cast boolits.

I’m a big fan of full wadcutters for defense with handguns. In revolvers I usually run them with a fairly soft alloy and get some expansion. In reciprocators I use a little harder alloy due to the violence the boolit receives when it hits the feed ramp. Even without expansion, wadcutters driven fast have a huge amount of wounding power.

Accurate Molds 40-172E is my design for my 38-40 revolver. It’s often my bedside gun. It’s just a tad less meplat than full caliber. It’s meplat is 0.370”. That little bit of taper makes it much easier to load into revolver chambers quickly…..which got me to thinking about using it in reciprocators.

So I re-designed it into the 40-172F for 40 S&W and 10mm. The 40-172F feeds in my HK VP-40 but not in my Sig 229. The feed ramp on the 229 is simply too narrow. My Springfield XD 40 had a couple of fail to feed jams with it. I rarely shoot that pistol and haven’t spent any effort on loads for that gun. The XD might get reliable with the 40-172F with some load development.

I’ve also shot that 40-172F in a few 10mm’s. Glock 20 factory barrel and KKM barrel worked as well as Sig 220 and Springfield XDm. Ruger SR1911 has a few fail to feeds with it.

My first 40 S&W mold was the Lee 401-175 TC. It has some meplat and has fed in every pistol I’ve tried it in. It’s a pretty good do-everthing compromise boolit for 40/10. But I prefer Accurate 40-165A, mostly due to the quality of the mold. 40-165A meplat is 0.280”. It runs in all my 40/10 reciprocators.

I see 40 S&W as a cartridge as being very efficient. It uses small pistol primers, range brass is still pretty easy to get, runs at magnum revolver pressure, fits in medium sized handguns, technically it’s a big bore gun, it can get heavy enough boolits (165-175 grain) over 1100 fps. Very useful handgun caliber.

[dverna]

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...ic-tests/#40SW

You may find this informative. They test with a "heavy" cloth barrier in front of the ballistic gel.

I went with Reminton 180 gr Ultimate Defense for my carry gun but you may want something with more penetration.

[barnetmill]

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...ic-tests/#40SW

You may find this informative. They test with a "heavy" cloth barrier in front of the ballistic gel.

I went with Reminton 180 gr Ultimate Defense for my carry gun but you may want something with more penetration.

It is most informative since it covers many of the common semi-auto handgun cartridges
Ballistics Test Results

.380 ACP Results
9mm Results
.40 S&W Results
.45 ACP Results
.38 Special Results
.357 Magnum Results
10mm Auto Results
.357 Sig Results
.22 LR Results
.22 Magnum Results
.25 ACP Results
.32 ACP Results
9x18mm Makarov Results
.32 Long Results
.32 H&R Magnum Results
.327 Federal Magnum Result

[barnetmill]

Barnetmill, maybe you already know but I’ll throw in that cast boolits shoot faster than copper jacketed or solid copper for the same pressure. The lead simply seals the bore better so there is less blow-by of the driving gas. Also, lubed lead has significantly less friction against the bore. Generally, you can pick up 50-100 fps more velocity with cast boolits.

I’m a big fan of full wadcutters for defense with handguns. In revolvers I usually run them with a fairly soft alloy and get some expansion. In reciprocators I use a little harder alloy due to the violence the boolit receives when it hits the feed ramp. Even without expansion, wadcutters driven fast have a huge amount of wounding power.

Accurate Molds 40-172E is my design for my 38-40 revolver. It’s often my bedside gun. It’s just a tad less meplat than full caliber. It’s meplat is 0.370”. That little bit of taper makes it much easier to load into revolver chambers quickly…..which got me to thinking about using it in reciprocators.

So I re-designed it into the 40-172F for 40 S&W and 10mm. The 40-172F feeds in my HK VP-40 but not in my Sig 229. The feed ramp on the 229 is simply too narrow. My Springfield XD 40 had a couple of fail to feed jams with it. I rarely shoot that pistol and haven’t spent any effort on loads for that gun. The XD might get reliable with the 40-172F with some load development.

I’ve also shot that 40-172F in a few 10mm’s. Glock 20 factory barrel and KKM barrel worked as well as Sig 220 and Springfield XDm. Ruger SR1911 has a few fail to feeds with it.

My first 40 S&W mold was the Lee 401-175 TC. It has some meplat and has fed in every pistol I’ve tried it in. It’s a pretty good do-everthing compromise boolit for 40/10. But I prefer Accurate 40-165A, mostly due to the quality of the mold. 40-165A meplat is 0.280”. It runs in all my 40/10 reciprocators.

I see 40 S&W as a cartridge as being very efficient. It uses small pistol primers, range brass is still pretty easy to get, runs at magnum revolver pressure, fits in medium sized handguns, technically it’s a big bore gun, it can get heavy enough boolits (165-175 grain) over 1100 fps. Very useful handgun caliber.

In theory cast bullets are supposed to faster at the same pressures than jacketed, and even faster than solid copper. I would also want to see the empirical data rather than assuming. What happens in a cartridge is often not predictable by someone with my level of understanding.

Sammi PSI pressures for 40 S&W are indeed the same for .357 magnum https://www.theballisticassistant.co...ridge-catalog/



40 Smith & Wesson
MAP (PSI) – 35,000
Headspace – Case Mouth
Headspace Dim – .850 to .862
Max Case Length – .850
Trim to Length – .840
COAL – 1.135 to 1.085
Head Diameter – .424
Small Pistol Primer



357 Magnum
MAP (CUP) – 45,000
MAP (PSI) – 35,000
Headspace – Rim
Headspace Dim – .060 to .070
Max Case Length – 1.290
Trim to Length – 1.270
COAL – 1.590 to 1.405
Head Diameter – .440
Small Pistol Primer

Strangely the .357 sig has a higher MAP. My thoughts are the lighter 40 pressure accounts for the earlier glocks that provided less support for the case head. I suspect that a better supporting chamber would have facilitated listing a higher MAP pressure. There also might be a difference the case head design. .357 sig brass is not is precisely equivalent to necked down 40 S&W.


357 Sig
MAP (PSI) – 40,000
Headspace – Case Mouth
Headspace Dim – .865 to .877
Max Case Length – .865
Trim to Length – .855
COAL – 1.140 to 1.100
Head Diameter – .424
Small Pistol Primer

10 mm is also higher pressure than is the 40 S&W

10mm Automatic
MAP (PSI) – 37,500
Headspace – Case Mouth
Headspace Dim- 1.004 to .992
Max Case Length – .992
Trim to Length – .982
COAL – 1.260 to 1.240
Head Diameter – .425
Large Pistol Primer

[justindad]

When I ran the 200gr RCBS to 1,000 fps with True Blue, there was no sticky extraction. When I ran the 155gr XTP with 9.2gr Longshot (CCI SPP, 1.135” OACL, virgin Starline brass) there was sticky extraction (also, the barrel was clean). Both of these from the same gun.
*
1,000 fps with True Blue and the 200gr boolit was not over pressure.

[barnetmill]

When I ran the 200gr RCBS to 1,000 fps with True Blue, there was no sticky extraction. When I ran the 155gr XTP with 9.2gr Longshot (CCI SPP, 1.135” OACL, virgin Starline brass) there was sticky extraction (also, the barrel was clean). Both of these from the same gun.
*
1,000 fps with True Blue and the 200gr boolit was not over pressure.

I can not get true blue and long shot seems to be close to true blue for that wt of bullet. We know under your reloading conditions that True blue is safe for that load. Hodgdon is only selling long shot at the moment. So it is a no brainer that long shot would be the obvious choice. Did you try 9.2grains of true blue with that 155 grain bullet. I suspect the results would not be better. It does not take much with the 40 to get into trouble. I would have have started at 7.8-8.0 grain if the max charge was 9.2 grains.

Bullet: 155 GR. LC RNSWC
Diameter: 0.401"
Case: Winchester
Primer: Winchester SP, Small Pistol
True blue load for 155 gr bullet above 7.2 grains 1,070 fps 33,500 PSI Out of Stock

[justindad]

I worked up Longshot from the starting charge, 10 rounds for each 0.1 gr increment. When I had ten rounds with 9.3 grains, they all cycled normally. Then I made 100 rounds at 9.2 grains, and 1 out of 14 would stick in the chamber.
*
HS-6 is also good in .40 S&W, but not with 200 grain boolits. The reasons why I mention this is that, in my experience, Longshot is great with j-words but not so great with lead. HS-6 is great with lead, but I have not used it for j-words. The data in Lyman’s Cast Manual #4 I shared above has excellent performance for HS-6 under a 175 gr boolit, but I’m not confident that you can actually fit the full charge in that case. Longshot is awesome with j-words, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the same performance with a boolit.