9mm Luger brass fired in what?

[1eyedjack]

Range opened after long refurbish. Had to check it out, very nice setup good RSO on duty. I policed my brass and a bunch more a veritable gold mine and the range was empty! Zip lock bag full mostly 9mm with a few odd pieces 40 sw 380 then noticed something different win 9mm luger headstamp with line down .125 at the mouth, body measured .392 - .394 weird crimp maybe or shot in something not 9x19 ? Looks like maybe a full box was shot & left all going into the scrap box. Any thoughts?
20250522_182730.jpg

[nueces5]

38super?

[Dusty Bannister]

I had some of that cross the bench from a brass purchase from a LEO agency. I checked with the range master, but they have five agencies shoot at that range and he had no idea as to the source. Without knowing if it was a proper service or practice load, I elected to trash it. Brass is cheap, repairs are not. I believe it was a US maker, but do not recall for sure who it was.

Added: I found the cases and they are Speer 9mm Luger 22. While that does not ID the firearm, it does have the "Glock like" swipe on the primer. I am not familiar with the firearms mentioned in the link Steve U provided. They may have a similar primer strike appearance, rectangular, not round.

[ACC]

Range opened after long refurbish. Had to check it out, very nice setup good RSO on duty. I policed my brass and a bunch more a veritable gold mine and the range was empty! Zip lock bag full mostly 9mm with a few odd pieces 40 sw 380 then noticed something different win 9mm luger headstamp with line down .125 at the mouth, body measured .392 - .394 weird crimp maybe or shot in something not 9x19 ? Looks like maybe a full box was shot & left all going into the scrap box. Any thoughts?
20250522_182730.jpg

Bad chamber?

ACC

[steve urquell]

Some pistols have stepped chambers that leave that mark. Here's a thread discussing it.:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Bottleneck-9mm

[Rapidrob]

They could be fired in a 1920/21 Fritz Mann pistol. A chamber with a positive ring machined in the chamber to allow the brass case to grip the chamber until the bullet left the bore, and the pressure dropped.

[243winxb]

The Walther PDP is known for having a stepped chamber.

[Stew]

I have loaded brass with a line like that and fired them with no problems. Grant you, I don't load near max loads though.

[steve urquell]

I have loaded brass with a line like that and fired them with no problems. Grant you, I don't load near max loads though.

I had several pieces like that in my last batch of range brass as well. Resized a few and examined them under my magnifier. They looked good so I loaded them up. No problem with them.

[barnetmill]

Then there are carbines and submachine guns since law enforcement agencies were mentioned. Some may fire from an open bolt.

Fritz Manns fired brass empties. Not 9mm

The Mann family owned the company Fritz Mann Feinmaschinen - Waffen - und Werkzeugfabrik, which was engaged in the release of not only weapons but also other mechanisms. In 1919, Fritz Mann takes on the development of a lightweight compact pistol, deciding to reduce its mass by reducing the mass of the bolt. In order to slow down the extraction of an empty cartridge and to prevent the premature opening of the free slide, Fritz Mann decided to use an annular groove - a groove about 3 mm wide and 0,1 mm deep. The groove had beveled edges so that there was no bully shells.

[1eyedjack]

Thanks for the replies! The brass with the blue x was resized and looks nearly perfect after sizing. Had never heard of stepped chambers until now but I'm convinced that is the case here. I'll still trash them just in case as the 9mm and 22lr are very plentiful here and the RSO seems to appreciate the clean up.

[rockshooter]

I've reloaded a bunch of them without issues- seem to work just fine.
Loren

[pipehand]

Didn't the Seacamp pistols.have a similar chamber?

[barnetmill]

Didn't the Seacamp pistols.have a similar chamber?

Yes for the .32 and .380 pistols.

[kevin c]

I’ve seen 9mm brass like that, though I’ve never ID’d the pistol.

They all reloaded and shot fine (with the moderate loads I use).

[atfsux]

When you say the body measured .394,...do you mean near the base or near the mouth? According to published dimensions for 9x19 brass, .394 is the rim diameter as well as the base of the body,...so nothing out of the ordinary there. That would be expected. But the case mouth is supposed to be .380 and not everyone cuts their chambers the same way.

[PuppetZ]

When you say the body measured .394,...do you mean near the base or near the mouth? According to published dimensions for 9x19 brass, .394 is the rim diameter as well as the base of the body,...so nothing out of the ordinary there. That would be expected. But the case mouth is supposed to be .380 and not everyone cuts their chambers the same way.

If you found a 9mm case that wasn’t around .394 at the base, then we’d have a mystery. Otherwise, carry on, CSI: Reloading Division.

[barnetmill]

If you found a 9mm case that wasn’t around .394 at the base, then we’d have a mystery. Otherwise, carry on, CSI: Reloading Division.

I wonder exactly how much variation that there is in 9x19 cases. Also remember there is an italian military loading that externally similar to the 9x19 luger parabellum.

[Johnnybuck]

I wonder exactly how much variation that there is in 9x19 cases. Also remember there is an italian military loading that externally similar to the 9x19 luger parabellum.

There’s a surprising amount of variation in 9x19 brass depending on country of origin, military vs. civilian loads, and even year of manufacture. Italian military surplus can be a good example, some loads are dimensionally close to standard 9mm but were intended for specific firearms or pressure tolerances

[GONRA]

GONRA noted such a "stepped chamber" in an ORIGINAL 1913 DWM (rusty bore) Luger.
Dupped it (boring bar) when I made a 12 inch replacement barrel around 1960 ....
Bet some Luger nut(s) have REALLY looked into "stepped chambers". ! !!

Excellent copies of a least one set of German WW I arsenal prints are floating around....
Mine's (DWM?) buried somewere in my junque pyle....
88 year olde memory sez other one is ERFURT? ??

Check 'em for chamber details....