Todays fireforming

[Half Dog]

I’ve read many posts that describe how to fireform but they don’t use today’s component prices. Some say to use your regular load some say use Bullseye and toilet paper (TP) some say to use in between, and some suggest cream of wheat (COW).
Is there a standard that works? I’m sure everyone has their preferences but can 1 concoction work for others?
In particular I’m trying to fireform 30-30 to a 7-30 Waters.

[Delkal]

COW fireforming with a faster pistol powder works and you might want to consider it if you can shoot in your backyard. Unfortunately most clubs won't let you point a gun up in the air and shoot it even if you are just making noise. Now I just use a cast bullet without a gas check. Find a midrange cast load with a faster powder and go shoot a few. If the case is not fully formed increase the powder a little. Once you find the correct load bring a bunch of them out and practice your offhand shooting.

[M-Tecs]

With today component costs the Hornady Hydraulic Form Die Kit or others of similar design becomes more cost effective depending on the volume you need to form.
Our Hydraulic Form Die Kit is designed to expand a standard case into an improved case design without having to fireform cases. Saves time, bullets, powder, primers and barrel wear. https://www.hornady.com/reloading/dies/custom-dies#!/

https://www.accurateshooter.com/tech...-forming-dies/

I've been using this method for at least 30 years for both forming and Berdan primer removal. It's very cost effective for me since I make my own dies.

[K43]

Any method mentioned will work with a cartridge headspacing on the rim. Cheapest and least messy is as Delkal recommends. Pick a starting to mid-range load and a lead bullet, shoot at a target.
COW and fillers are messy. Paper and Wax Plugs don't always fill out the shoulders well. I gave all a try and ending up simply using a bullet in forming 219 Wasp, 8x56R, AIs, etc. Just make sure to anneal the neck and shoulder that are going to become body and new shoulder.

[BK7saum]

I have a 7-30 Waters 16"TC carbine and use 30-30 brass exclusively.

Size the 30-30 brass so that the action will just close on the case with minimal resistance. (Yes, the 30-30/ 7-30 are rimmed cartridges, but you can still get enough case stretch to limit life due to case head separations down the road).

Load using the faster powders for the 7-30 due to the reduced capacity (to fit the full amount for your data), load bullet according to the data and go shoot/hunt/whatever.

I have never fireformed for this one and see absolutely no need to fireform. My initial loads are accurate and velocities are in line with subsequent loads with fireformed brass.

Don't waste your time or components, there is nothing to be gained from fireforming with bullseye/TP, COW, etc. in a 7-30 Waters.

[Mk42gunner]

I have tried the cream of wheat method. It didn't work well for me in trying to expand .303 British to .410.

I have not tried hydraulic forming, but it does make sense.

The methods that have worked for me was to use a standard weight projectile and a midrange load for various wildcats.

Given todays cost of components, if I had a high quantity of cases needed the hydraulic dies look pretty good. Although I would recommend setting the press up outside on a picnic table or something (less cleanup).

Robert

[lar45]

I have a 309JDJ Contender barrel. To make brass, lube 444 Marlin cases and run partway into a 308Win sizer die until the action will close.
Then load a bullet and shoot it. Done.
I think JD suggested to not use a light load so it would fill out the shoulder and give crisp corners.
Accuracy was great with the fireform loads. I was surprised.
A couple of years later, I went back to the 309 project, opened an ammo box and had split necks on my loaded ammo.
I guess I should have annealed after forming.
Initially I used Rem 444 cases and had no problems.
I recently tried Starline 444 brass and ended up with rolled necks most of the time. Maybe the RP brass was softer?

I do not have a 7-30 Waters, but the size difference from 30-30 doesn't look too huge.
I would be tempted to size 30-30 cases until the action would just close, load and fire.
I have read a few places about lightly oiling cases to be fireformed so they will fill out completely. That would make me nervous. Does anybody know anything else about oiled cases and forming?

I use a case full of grits to make 30-30 into 375 Win, works great. I've even cut some of those down to 1.610" for my 375 Supermag

[Half Dog]

Fireforming is new to me but it seems I should load one and shoot it. Is there anything I should look for after the first shot?

[steveu]

Cracked necks, incomplete forming of the shoulder. BTW, I use about 6 grains of BE and corn meal to fire form after I have annealed the neck/shoulder junction. No need to oil a case.

[Fitz]

I use COW with red dot powder and a wax wad on top of the COW then shoot into a 5 gallon pail with 3in of sand in the bottom of bucket with lid on and a small hole in the lid for the barrel to be stuck in , and I live in a neighborhood and never had any mention of anything from neighbors .

[challenger_i]

I use COW with red dot powder and a wax wad on top of the COW then shoot into a 5 gallon pail with 3in of sand in the bottom of bucket with lid on and a small hole in the lid for the barrel to be stuck in , and I live in a neighborhood and never had any mention of anything from neighbors .

SLICK TRICK! I'm stealing your idea, sir!

[racepres]

To Fireform. I shoot a regular load, (My regular loads are pretty Mild) with the boolit jammed into the rifling, upon closing action. ...always works for the fireform job, and at times the Accuracy will surprise you!!
Just got done doing that very thing with my 94 Winchester, which had a Bad life, and gets Fireformed loadings, because of the "Generous" Headspace, I choose to headspace on the shoulder..

[Jedman]

Agree with racepres ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Fitz]

SLICK TRICK! I'm stealing your idea, sir!

One thing to remember make sure you settle the sand after each shot or that wax bullet will go through the bottom of a metal 5 gallon bucket and make a heck of a mess on the carpet , ask me how I know.

[ttd444]

i use alot of '06 brass to 6.5x55, 7.65x53, 7x57, 8x57 and 9.3x57, 270 and some other brass. i use 30-30 brass to 35/30-30, 7x30 Waters, 30 and 357 Herrett. 221 Rem Fireball to 20 Vartarg. i use something else, i just can't think of it.

i use a medium load to fireform all my boolits, most of time that is a good load for deer.

[Shanghai Jack]

In my younger days I had a friend who operated a bullet casting and custom ammo shop - back in the 60's. He would fire-form using a stout load of fast burning powder and grits with a glue plug. Here's the kicker He had a hand press and fireformed using the sizing die for the caliber required. Made a spring loaded firing pin which resulted in essentially a two inch barrel fireforming jig. Shop always smelled like grits and gun powder. I think the design for the fireforming jig is in the handbook of cartridge conversions.

[racepres]

In my younger days I had a friend who operated a bullet casting and custom ammo shop - back in the 60's. He would fire-form using a stout load of fast burning powder and grits with a glue plug. Here's the kicker He had a hand press and fireformed using the sizing die for the caliber required. Made a spring loaded firing pin which resulted in essentially a two inch barrel fireforming jig. Shop always smelled like grits and gun powder. I think the design for the fireforming jig is in the handbook of cartridge conversions.

Ingenious..but if I use COW...I have Fish to Feed

[TurnipEaterDown]

One thing to remember make sure you settle the sand after each shot or that wax bullet will go through the bottom of a metal 5 gallon bucket and make a heck of a mess on the carpet , ask me how I know.

Not pooh-poohing the method, but do be careful if you have a lot to form, or don't change the sand often.

I did similar at one time.

17 Ackley Hornet. 5.5 gr Unique and a TP wad (rolled tight, like a cylinder a little longer than neck, and inserted in the neck).
I had about 600 or so to form for a varmint trip, after forming the rest of the thousand at the range. Used a cardboard box, some magazines in the end to stop the wad, and some egg crate foam to deaden the noise. Well, didn't think that there was always a little unburned powder on each shot. It collected. Eventually it lit. A burning cardboard box lined with flammable polymer foam inside your house is a bad deal. Fortunately the bath had a porcelain tub and tile walls. Toss burning box in tub, deal w/ the issue, turn on bath fan...

I see in earlier post 303 Brit to 410 -- again, I do similar: 30-40 straightened to take a 416 bullet.
I have done this several ways, one way was to neck the 30-40 to 8 mm, and use a conical for 31 cal BP (62 gr). Powder: 16.5 Trailboss.
Straightens them right out.
Does make them longer than necking in steps w/ a die, and that has to be from stretching out the body by pushing the shoulder, but they have worked fine for many loadings.
(Basically, I "reinvented" the 40-60 Maynard w/ a small rim -- yes, nothing is new...) Memory on my "41-40", or "416 Krag", being very close to the 40-60 Maynard, excuse me if that isn't what I should be remembering. Not bothering to go digging.

[15meter]

Fireforming is new to me but it seems I should load one and shoot it. Is there anything I should look for after the first shot?

I have never done 7-30's I have done 30-30 to 38-55 and a number of other conversions. I think I used ~11 grains of Unique, 1/4 square of toilet paper, tamped down screenings from under a grain dryer(free!)
1/4 square over the top of the screenings. Fired the rifle while held vertical got perfectly formed cases. If I held the rifle horizontally, I got mis-shappened, lopsided cases. It's amazing the effect gravity had on the outcome.

Fired in my backyard, I'm rural enough that didn't bother anybody. Except the wife, she didn't appreciate the confetti strewn across the backyard. it all disappeared the next time i cut the grass.

I did a number of other cases over the years but the 30-30 to 38-55 was my introduction to fire forming. I'd still do it today, if I had a need. 25 cents or less in components to make expensive and or unobtainable cases is cheap fun.

[Delkal]

I have never done 7-30's I have done 30-30 to 38-55 and a number of other conversions. I think I used ~11 grains of Unique, 1/4 square of toilet paper, tamped down screenings from under a grain dryer(free!)
1/4 square over the top of the screenings. Fired the rifle while held vertical got perfectly formed cases. If I held the rifle horizontally, I got mis-shappened, lopsided cases. It's amazing the effect gravity had on the outcome.

Fired in my backyard, I'm rural enough that didn't bother anybody. Except the wife, she didn't appreciate the confetti strewn across the backyard. it all disappeared the next time i cut the grass.

I did a number of other cases over the years but the 30-30 to 38-55 was my introduction to fire forming. I'd still do it today, if I had a need. 25 cents or less in components to make expensive and or unobtainable cases is cheap fun.

I would fill the cases with cream of wheat next time and if pointing each round up if in your back yard you don't need to seal the case tightly. There are reports of TP or Dacron ringing chambers if packed down against the powder and I am not sure if the dryer lint will be heavy enough to stop that. COW does not compress much and the force of it blowing out of the case does a good job of fire forming your cases.