.410+Laser Sight+000 Buck= Armadillo Medicine

[steve urquell]

I have been playing around with #12 snake loads and 000 buck in my .410 Hatfield. I shot 5 copperheads on my property after my dog was almost bitten by a 40+" copperhead. All at night. I also shoot armadillos regularly on my property using a 9mm AR15 with a silencer.


All of that happens after dark here so the shotgun was really hard to use on the copperheads. I found a cheap picatinny rail barrel mount on Amazon and bought it.


Mounted it last night and also a laser sight off one of my G19 clones. It's a trigger guard mount but mounts on the rail so I really don't care about aesthetics.




I had loaded some 000 buck in .444 Marlin cases Barry54 sent me(Thanks dude) over 6.5gr of MP254. 3 pellets in claybuster wads capped by folding the wad over and heating it followed by a melted wax cap. Velocity 900ish


I did a little armadillo cutout to pattern it and realized the factory groove and bead were not gonna get it at night thus the laser idea.


So I mounted the laser last night and patterned the buckshot tonight sighting in the laser. All I have to say is Wowza! the laser is incredible for a great sight picture. I only had 6 rounds of buck loaded so the pic below is the last 2 shots and I adjusted the laser a little to the left afterwards. All shot from the hip.


I had a few .444 cases loaded with #12 shot and patterned it after adjusting the laser the last time. It blew the target apart lol.


I will have a chance to try this on armadillos Thursday night and will report results. Kicking around doing some buck and shot loads with #4 as well.

[Adam Helmer]

steve,

You live in a TOUGH Neighborhood! If I lived there, I would get a 12 gauge and be done with it. A 410 is not my first choice, but I digress. On my farm in rural PA, I have a Mossberg 500 and slugs, 00 Buck, 4Buck and 7.5 birdshot. We have rattlers, porkys, and other vermin and all are handled nicely by my 12 gauge, properly stoked. LOL.
Be well.
Adam

[steve urquell]

steve,

You live in a TOUGH Neighborhood! If I lived there, I would get a 12 gauge and be done with it. A 410 is not my first choice, but I digress. On my farm in rural PA, I have a Mossberg 500 and slugs, 00 Buck, 4Buck and 7.5 birdshot. We have rattlers, porkys, and other vermin and all are handled nicely by my 12 gauge, properly stoked. LOL.
Be well.
Adam

Thanks Adam. I have a 12 and 20ga but like to play around with the .410. On the copperheads it completely disintegrated their heads first with factory #9 then as well with my handloaded #12 in .454 Casull and .444 Marlin cases. The pattern is absolutely brutal with the #12 shot. I'm looking forward to laying (3) 000 buck pellets on an armadillo.

[Barry54]

I think B shot will stack by twos in some 410 wads like 000 stacks by twos in 12 gauge. It’s a lighter than normal 410 payload and might be like peas in a pod with that 254 powder?

I feel like they would hear a 12 gauge after dark in the next county. Especially now that it’s getting cool enough to sleep with the windows open.

How quiet is your 410 000 Buck recipe?

[steve urquell]

I think B shot will stack by twos in some 410 wads like 000 stacks by twos in 12 gauge. It’s a lighter than normal 410 payload and might be like peas in a pod with that 254 powder?

I feel like they would hear a 12 gauge after dark in the next county. Especially now that it’s getting cool enough to sleep with the windows open.

How quiet is your 410 000 Buck recipe?

BB or BBB would be fun to play with. I have a local guy who casts sells shot and slugs. I'll check with him to see what he has. I bought my last 000 buck from him. I also have a bucket full of old shotgun shells to be disassembled. I may have some bigger shot.

The noise wasn't bad. I fired several rounds w/o hearing protection. It did not ring my right ear but did ramp up the existing tinnitus in my left ear a bit. Probably no problem shooting one or two w/o protection but I'll plug up next time I'm shooting several.

[steve urquell]

Barry, when I bought the buckshot from my guy I bought a pound each of .310, .320, .330 and .360. I just looked at my shells and I have some #4. How do you think layers of .310-.330 and #4 would do? Or would another size shot pack around the buckshot better?

I have 50 rds of .444 Marlin brass on the way now. Should have a bit longer cases to play with soon.

[Barry54]

I purchased B specifically for stacking by two in 410 wads in plastic hulls. I just don’t remember which wad. Anything larger didn’t stack correctly. I didn’t stray from proper accepted 410 powder types and suspect the light payload would have been better suited to a faster powder.

But in brass hulls, larger shot than B might work. Or it might tend to migrate to the wad slits?

I’m very interested in other size shot stacking in 410 like buckshot stacks in 12 gauge. It would be very useful out on the farm, or “the back 40”.

The thick TPS 410 wads from BPI held #1 buckshot fairly well iirc. The bottom pellet seemed like it might stick, but might not once it left the muzzle.

[steve urquell]

I purchased B specifically for stacking by two in 410 wads in plastic hulls. I just don’t remember which wad. Anything larger didn’t stack correctly. I didn’t stray from proper accepted 410 powder types and suspect the light payload would have been better suited to a faster powder.

But in brass hulls, larger shot than B might work. Or it might tend to migrate to the wad slits?

I’m very interested in other size shot stacking in 410 like buckshot stacks in 12 gauge. It would be very useful out on the farm, or “the back 40”.

The thick TPS 410 wads from BPI held #1 buckshot fairly well iirc. The bottom pellet seemed like it might stick, but might not once it left the muzzle.

I just went and loaded 1 round of a stack in a wad. It ended up being (3) .310" pellets with #4 between the first and second .310". Couldn't get #4 on top due to using one of the shorter cases. I'll pop it tomorrow and see what the pattern does.

[Barry54]

Did the #4 shot fall in a symmetrical pattern between the buckshot? Did you happen to count how many?

I can’t wait to see how well it fills in the pattern!

[steve urquell]

Did the #4 shot fall in a symmetrical pattern between the buckshot? Did you happen to count how many?

I can’t wait to see how well it fills in the pattern!

I went back and filled my dipper halfway and it looks like 6 #4 pellets went in. It looked very flat on top of the .310". I will use a longer case tomorow and get 3 buck and 3 layers of #4 and see what happens.

[steve urquell]

Loaded one stacked .310/#4 load this morning. 3 each. Looks like the #4 goes to the right. No bueno.

[Barry54]

Our fellow member Nobade posted this in my buckshot mold thread. “ The trick is .4641 times the diameter of the bore (or ID of the shotcup) to get the ideal size for stacking in threes.”

So if 000 buckshot is 0.350” diameter then 0.162” shot should stack in threes in place of 000 buckshot. Looks like number 1 super shot from BPI would fit the bill.

0FB46EC2-CAC5-4E42-918E-10838301C303.jpg

Doing more math, 36 of those pellets would be 1/2 ounce. Approximately six grains per pellet. 11 foot pounds of energy per pellet at 900 ft./s muzzle velocity. Is that sufficient to penetrate armadillo armor?

[steve urquell]

Our fellow member Nobade posted this in my buckshot mold thread. “ The trick is .4641 times the diameter of the bore (or ID of the shotcup) to get the ideal size for stacking in threes.”

So if 000 buckshot is 0.350” diameter then 0.162” shot should stack in threes in place of 000 buckshot. Looks like number 1 super shot from BPI would fit the bill.

0FB46EC2-CAC5-4E42-918E-10838301C303.jpg

Doing more math, 36 of those pellets would be 1/2 ounce. Approximately six grains per pellet. 11 foot pounds of energy per pellet at 900 ft./s muzzle velocity. Is that sufficient to penetrate armadillo armor?

I think the #4 would penetrate at 900fps but not sure on how deep it would go. I played around some more after work today. Put 39gr of #4 (~12 pellets)in the bottom of the wad capped with a .38 cardboard wad then (3) .360" 000 pellets on top. Good grouping at 30ft with the 000 pellets. The #4 spread out pretty far though.



Below is 2 shots. The low right big hole is where the wad went.

[steve urquell]

I'm off work today because I work this weekend. I was running low on 000 buck and went to my local guy and bought 5lbs. Should last me awhile. He gave me some freebies, 12, 20, and .410 slugs to play around with. Knows he can get you hooked on the stuff to keep you coming back lol.


I loaded some 2-ball 000 in .454 cases and they are pretty accurate and fairly quiet but were 750fps with the 6.5gr MP254 charge. I bumped it to 7.5 and it only went to 800fps but got much louder. I think I'll keep it at the 6.5gr charge just for plinking around. Not sure how deep it would penetrate on a dillo.


Here it is on a jug. Not spectacular but it did split it all the way up the back when the pellets exited.


I also filled one .454 case with #4. It was 135gr and was pretty tame. Probably won't pursue this in these cases. I do have some full length .444 cases on the way and may make up some shot loads in them--more payload.


Also picked up some linotype from my guy to give to my FIL. Dealer is getting all my cash lol.

[barnetmill]

For snakes a j-frame .38 spl with shot loads in front genes pocket. If no gun, find something and beat them to death. One can with caution approach to within 10 ft of a snake to shoot it.
Temp 56 F right now in northwest FL and unlikely to see any snakes are below 60, especially at night.

[steve urquell]

For snakes a j-frame .38 spl with shot loads in front genes pocket. If no gun, find something and beat them to death. One can with caution approach to within 10 ft of a snake to shoot it.
Temp 56 F right now in northwest FL and unlikely to see any snakes are below 60, especially at night.

The pistols are great for carrying on the property for unexpected pests. I routinely carry my .410 derringer when on the tractor. I thought about getting an alum frame .38 just for this.

The 5 copperheads I shot recently were 30ft from my garage.In that case the thing I liked about the little .410 shotgun is you can be 5ft away from them with the muzzle 1ft from their head. Copperheads will literally let you walk up and step on them without moving making them extremely dangerous to have near your house.

I walked up to those 5 and put the muzzle 1ft from their heads. Nothing left on the end but a bloody stump. Quieter than the pistol as well.

[barnetmill]

The pistols are great for carrying on the property for unexpected pests. I routinely carry my .410 derringer when on the tractor. I thought about getting an alum frame .38 just for this.

The 5 copperheads I shot recently were 30ft from my garage.In that case the thing I liked about the little .410 shotgun is you can be 5ft away from them with the muzzle 1ft from their head. Copperheads will literally let you walk up and step on them without moving making them extremely dangerous to have near your house.

I walked up to those 5 and put the muzzle 1ft from their heads. Nothing left on the end but a bloody stump. Quieter than the pistol as well.

Water moccasins(Cottonmouths) often are well camouflaged like their copper head cousins and also lurk so that you may step on them or get bitten picking something up. I only get an occasional one near the house. My dogs avoid all snakes, it is only when I see them avoid an area that I get tipped off that there is a snake there.
The water moccasin bite is usually a more dangerous bite than that of the copperhead.

[steve urquell]

Water moccasins(Cottonmouths) often are well camouflaged like their copper head cousins and also lurk so that you may step on them or get bitten picking something up. I only get an occasional one near the house. My dogs avoid all snakes, it is only when I see them avoid an area that I get tipped off that there is a snake there.
The water moccasin bite is usually a more dangerous bite than that of the copperhead.

I dealt with cottonmouths when I lived in SC and TX. Some here at lakes but none near my house. They can have a nasty attitude and def more dangerous venom-wise.

[barnetmill]

I dealt with cottonmouths when I lived in SC and TX. Some here at lakes but none near my house. They can have a nasty attitude and def more dangerous venom-wise.

The internet is full of people claiming that water moccasin are not aggressive and will never chase you. If they are coming at you it is because you are between them and refuge like the water.
I know people that I trust that tell me that is not so. They can be aggressive. Most recently is my vet that worked for me in the animal room when he was student. He is a hunter and familiar with wildlife. One of his techs that walks the dogs in back of his old clinic that was adjacent to woodlands of the huge Escambia River wetlands said there was an aggressive one that was scaring the ther. It was very territorial and was not fleeing. I do not ask what he did to it. But I am sure he did not relocate it alive. I know of people doing that.

[steve urquell]

The internet is full of people claiming that water moccasin are not aggressive and will never chase you. If they are coming at you it is because you are between them and refuge like the water.
I know people that I trust that tell me that is not so. They can be aggressive. Most recently is my vet that worked for me in the animal room when he was student. He is a hunter and familiar with wildlife. One of his techs that walks the dogs in back of his old clinic that was adjacent to woodlands of the huge Escambia River wetlands said there was an aggressive one that was scaring the ther. It was very territorial and was not fleeing. I do not ask what he did to it. But I am sure he did not relocate it alive. I know of people doing that.

I've been in a few states where people call the brown water snake a water moccasin so I always say cottonmouth when referring to the venomous one. I had them act aggressively in TX. They would get your fish on the stringer and not back down when you tried to get them away.

As a 7 y/o kid in SC I was bank fishing a pond and had one surface with a fish in its mouth. It hissed at me and was coming towards the bank at me. I ran as fast as I could and will never forget that.