Need .357 load for rifle

[cpaspr]

So, I have this old Lyman mold, 358429 from my dad. It's a Kieth SWC design, that allegedly flies straight, regardless of speed. I.e., it doesn't yaw off in weird directions when it slows down below a certain point.

I have a Ruger made Marlin 1894 on order (no idea when it will actually arrive, though).

I have plenty of .38 Special and .357 Magnum brass, but I'm really more interested in a .357 load than I am the .38s.

I have a fairly abundant supply of H110, but am not necessarily locked in to only that powder.

Any proven loads out there? I haven't really found any loads listed in manuals for the .357 fired out of rifles.

Thanks in advance.

[fecmech]

The max pistol load of H110 for the 358429 will push that bullet around 1650 fps out of your rifle. I shot a lot of them out of a Win94 .357 and it was very accurate out to 200yds. A mag sp primer or sr primer worked best for me with 296/h110.

[Chubbs]

I have an older 1894 and a pile of the same bullet I am getting ready to work up. Skeeter published loads for Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. I wouldn't touch his 2400 load, but I plan on working up to the max 2400 load listed by both Lyman and Brian Pearce. I like 2400, and think it will do well in this application.

In case it matters, I also plan on trying IMR4227 and AA-9.

Good luck with the Ruger made Marlin. I took a look at one and liked what I saw.

[MT Gianni]

If the twist is right it should work well. I am not sure on the Ruger made Marlins.

[357Mag]

Cpa-

Howdy !

I used the same .357Mag load in myn1894SC that I did in 4", 5"; and 6"
" N "-frames.

14.5gr WW296 ( H110 same stuff ) and SP Magnum primer under Lyman cast .357" cal SWCs of 158 - 172gr. This was the minimum charge wt Winchester
( Olin ) used to list in their free reloading handout booklet. The SWCs do not have to be GC'd.


With regards,
357Mag

The 358429 has always shot well, for me.

[quilbilly]

I have a 357 mag bolt rifle. I use Unique with the Lyman Keith style SWC. It shoots very well at an mv of about 1340 fps. AA-9 and Bullseye also work well at that mv. Assuming your Keith boolit is similar and is also a plain base, I would work up a load at about 1300 to see how it performs then slowly work up to about 1400 to see if there is a hint of leading. Both my 357 rifle and 357 max rifle start leading at about 1420.

[Winger Ed.]

I'm not sure if you can get it right now, but for my old Marlin Carbine and CB:
A max. charge of Blue Dot with any boolit or bullet always made me proud.

[pdgoutdoors]

I purchased one in May and have about 250 rounds through it so far, all with my cast 358429 loads in special and mag. I have done pretty extensive testing with A2400 in mag and Unique in special but admittedly no other powders. The biggest thing to note with mag is that you have to crimp on the forward driving band at the OAL of 1.553" in the Lyman handbook for it to cycle. I tried lengthening it out and it would just jam up.

.357 Mag A2400 results (95 degrees, 900ft MSL elevation), CCI 500, 1x starline brass, 1.553" COL, range scrap + 2% tin, water dropped for about 15 BHN powder coated, groups at 50yd with irons off a front rest and rear bag:

- 12.7 gr: 1569 fps, 9.6 SD, 2.85" group including the one flier
- 12.9 gr: 1590 fps, 15.4 SD, 1.3" group
- 13.1 gr: 1613 fps, 8.3 SD, 1.48" group
- 13.3 gr: 1623 fps, 21.5 SD, 2.24" group
- 13.5 gr (MAX!!!): 1635 fps, 5.7 SD, 2.28" group (also 1.5" group at 25yd out of my Model 27)

I ended up settling on 13.5 for two reasons. The main being it was the only one that grouped well with the exact same load out of my 4" Model 27 and my 6" GP100. All of the other charges shot over 4" out of the M27. The second being I worked up to the max load at near 100 degrees F and had no pressure signs in both firearms, so I have no worry shooting it all year at that powder charge.

As for that bullet in 38spl, I have a really hard time getting the groups to shrink in the Marlin. I settled on 4.2gr of unique for my Model 27 runninig about 864 fps grouping at 1.1" at 25, but that same load shoots a 4-5" group out of the Marlin, and it is a max load so I cant push it any faster. I dont know if the 1:10 twist wants to run that 170gr projectile a little faster or what, but I will keep playing with it and let you know.

[gwpercle]

Hornady Reloading Manual #8 and Lyman #50 ... both have 357 Magnum Rifle reloading data . I'm sure there are others .
You really want to have a couple good published manuals on hand .
Load Safe ,
Gary

[cpaspr]

Slight update here.

I got tired of waiting, and talked to my LGS a week ago last Friday. Discussed the possibility of how often he gets in .357 Winchester 1892s on consignment. He just laughed at me. BUT . . . he did tell me he had a Henry steel frame .357 with loading gate due in the next week. I didn't even ask the price. Just told him I'd take it. I picked it up last Wednesday. (It was $100 less than the Marlin would have been.) I won't actually shoot it till this next Sunday, but I've already cycled 10 rounds each through the gun of .38 Special loaded with the 358429, and a .357 SWCHP round that's a hair longer in OAL. I also tried some "normal" length .38s, but they were iffy on the feeding. That's in keeping with what the manual said, .38 Specials probably won't feed well unless they're nearly .357 Mag length. This will probably be the only time I shoot it with the irons, as I can't see them worth beans. The rear sight notch is really tiny. At least to my eyes. I already have the one piece mount coming from Henry, and will either pick up a 3x9 from Cabelas, or a lightly used scope from a friend.

pdgoutdoors - that 4.2gr load of Unique in .38 Special is what I'll be trying Sunday with the 358429s. I've seen a number of references to 5.0 in .38s with that bullet, but that might have been Skeeter or Elmer hot-loading it in 38/44s. We'll see how it does with 4.2gr, before I consider anything hotter.

[jdgabbard]

Pick a book load, and it should work great. H110/296, 2400, or 4227 all come to mind. 4227 might actually benefit from the longer barrel. But I've had the best luck with 357mags loaded with 2400. H110 is a good powder too. I just prefer the 2400 loads.

[Winger Ed.]

I have a rear receiver peep sight on my Marlin in .357 and like it.

On my Henry .22 I replaced the factory sights with those open sights that have the two colors of fiber optic
in them. I can't remember the name- fire sights or something. I really like them.
They acquire and line up real fast.

Any load in published data that is max. or below is safe for the rifle and won't be a problem
if it finds its way into a handgun.
Due to the longer barrel and no cylinder gap- it will come out a lot faster than from a handgun.

I would discourage putting anything wild & crazy into .38 brass. Even if you seat & crimp
to .357 length, I just wouldn't be comfortable with doing it.

[Rapier]

I have several 357 Mag and 357 Super Mag rifles. Developed this load about 30+ years ago. I use the hard cast RCBS 200 grain plain base, flat nose, powder coated with H-110/296 and Fed 205m primers. with the lever actions like the Marlin 94c with a scope which I also own, I use a 357 Mag Revolver cylinder, a 66 to be exact, to set the OAL in brass/brass casings. The B/B cases are used because they have a slightly thinner web area resulting in less bulge at the web otherwise, the nickeled cases when loaded may not fit in the chamber. Then I use a taper crimp die. Seat and crimp as two different stages. The load for the rifle is 14.6-15 grains, max load so work up, highly compressed, with a slight bounce back, requires a slightly deeper seating, so with the crimp it is at the correct over all length to feed and is crimped over the ogive, just to hold the bullet in place.
With the OAL set to the revolver cylinder length the loaded round will feed through the Marlin 94c action and loaded rounds will eject.
For a single shot the OAL can be set longer, using the crimping groove length. A 357 Mag handgun loading for the 357 Mag rife is a joke.

On a double swing target at 50 the 158 loaded like a handgun will just wiggle the bottom swing plate. The 200 grain loaded like a rifle will spin the target four full revolutions. The 200 RCBS running 1900+ fps, has considerable different impact energy.

I have shot deer and hogs with this load with a 357 rifle, they may kick a couple of times, at 100, but they go no where if you do your job with bullet placement. Incidentally, you can use the 200 grain Rem RN bullet setup the same way, if you wish.

[rmb721]

In a Marlin 1894, 357, 24" barrel, I used 12 grains of IMR-4227 with 183 and 185 grain gas checked bullets.

183's were from a Saeco 354.

185's were from a Lee group buy 6 cavity 180-FN

I used these for cowboy silhouette.

[bedbugbilly]

FWIW - a 38 spl. loaded with a Ideal/Lyman 358-311 160 gr. RN plan base cycles like butter in my Henry 357 Big Boy Steel.

[cpaspr]

I managed to pop off a few rounds Sunday afternoon. The first couple of .357s hit low and right when shooting at a steel plate hanging at 60 yards. Moved the POA to the upper left ear of the plate and started connecting. I was shooting a gas-checked 153gr, LSWCHP, over 6.6gr of HS-6. It's not a top end .357 load, but it definitely rocked the plate harder than the 4.2gr of Unique under the 173gr Keith SWC in the .38 Special brass. A friend handed me a partial box of factory ammo. I tried one round. The reloads I fired all felt like .22s for recoil. I for sure felt the factory load. Not unpleasant enough to cause flinching, but it definitely had some recoil.

I picked up a scope this morning. My Talley mount direct from Henry is bouncing around between post offices. Originally due here on Monday. On Saturday it arrived in Portland. On Sunday it arrived in San Bernadino, CA. Um. Wrong truck. Arriving in Portland got it into the right state. Then they sent it bounding out of state again. Morons. I just checked. As of an hour ago, it's back in Portland. Maybe tomorrow.

[cpaspr]

Dilemma here. Hodgdon HS-6 powder, .357 Magnum Henry Steel Big Boy rifle.

I have several hundred 149gr LSWCHP gas-checked boolits. I'm loading these in .357 cases. 6.6gr of HS-6 under this combination feels like a .22 for recoil in the .357 rifle.

Looking at Hodgdon's reloading center, a 150gr Nosler JFP bullet out of a rifle shows 9.0 to 9.7gr with pressures of 31500 to 39900CUP. Velocities of 1449-1503 fps.

A 158gr Hornady XTP out of either a rifle or handgun shows 8.0 to 9.5gr, with pressures of 28000 to 41900CUP. Velocity is 1181-1427 for the rifle and 1182-1375 for the handgun.

A 158gr LSWC for either rifle or handgun shows 6.0 to 7.0gr, for 12900 to 15500CUP. Velocity is 1083-1224 for the rifle and 990-1106 for the handgun.

There's the background info.

A) Hodgdon doesn't say anything about gas checks on the LSWC loads, and with identical loads, it appears they really didn't test "rifle only" loads, but merely tested "safe for handgun" loads in a rifle.
B) I was already most of the way to their max load with the LSWC, and recoil felt like a .22.
C) I used to load 7.6gr of HS-6 under a 175gr LTC boolit for my .40S&W. Those shot fine, with no leading. Also no gas checks.
D) Since a LSWC generates less pressure for a given powder load, all other things being equal, if a jacketed 150gr bullet starts at 9.0gr, wouldn't a LSWC-GC of similar weight develop less pressure at the same powder charge?

[badboyboris]

Hello all, I have a Henry rifle chambered in 357 mag. With that said, I have 125 grain RN (blue bullet brand) as well as 158 grain SWC from the same bullet mfg. looking for a rifle load in the 125 grain bullet weight, as I couldn't really find anything in the LEE book. I have a few powders available.

[P Flados]

The 147 may or may not work out at full speed.

For a 357 in a rifle, actual testing shows it is likely to reach max velocity with only 14" to 16" of travel. With HS6, you might be closer to max at around, 12", but I will use 14".

This web site is good stuff, but is "out of date" and may cause you problems with your anti virus (mine does).

https://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

Here is Quickload info for HS6 and a 147 cast bullet. The COAL and the bullet length are just a wild guess at this point. The data would be better suited to your application if you had given us COAL and bullet length.

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 147,             360-152-SWC (0.665" long)
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 14.0 inch = 355.6 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon HS-6

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-07.4   57     8.80   1465     701   25554   1843    100.0    1.116
-06.3   58     8.90   1476     712   26206   1857    100.0    1.104
-05.3   58     9.00   1488     722   26870   1871    100.0    1.093
-04.2   59     9.10   1499     733   27545   1884    100.0    1.082
-03.2   60     9.20   1510     744   28232   1898    100.0    1.072
-02.1   60     9.30   1521     755   28931   1912    100.0    1.061
-01.1   61     9.40   1532     766   29641   1925    100.0    1.051
+00.0   62     9.50   1543     777   30364   1939    100.0    1.041  ! Near Maximum !
+01.1   62     9.60   1553     788   31100   1952    100.0    1.031  ! Near Maximum !
+02.1   63     9.70   1564     799   31848   1966    100.0    1.021  ! Near Maximum !
+03.2   64     9.80   1575     809   32608   1979    100.0    1.012  ! Near Maximum !

[P Flados]

I worked up a load with a 120 cast to be used in a Henry rifle. I see anything under 140 gr as a fun shooting / plinking round. I used a mid range charge with a fast powder.

I would not try for anything near max velocity in this bullet weight range. Lets look 28000 psi loads with faster powders. For any given load listed, your gun may be much happier with a load well below the charge listed. Again, lack of bullet length and COAL make this a rough guess for the application. Given the powders being considered I set the barrel to 10".

Plan B would be to just load 38s at or near max listed charge and see what they do.

Cartridge          : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 122,             359-121-RN PB (0.572" long)
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.575 inch = 40.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 10.0 inch = 355.6 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant BULLSEYE                    63.5      7.5     0.48    1570   100.0    28000    2942   0.766
Accurate No.2                       67.6      7.9     0.52    1537   100.0    28000    2753   0.772
Vihtavuori N330                     68.4      7.9     0.51    1511   100.0    28000    2555   0.789
Ramshot Zip                         51.6      7.7     0.50    1476   100.0    28000    2405   0.792
Winchester 231                      57.5      7.7     0.50    1476   100.0    28000    2405   0.792
Shooters World Clean Shot           55.9      7.0     0.45    1471   100.0    28000    2374   0.787
Alliant GREEN DOT                   69.4      6.9     0.44    1444   100.0    28000    2282   0.803
Accurate Nitro 100                  67.6      6.3     0.41    1438   100.0    28000    2266   0.798
Vihtavuori N320                     66.3      6.9     0.45    1438   100.0    28000    2221   0.808
Alliant RED DOT                     70.4      6.2     0.40    1408   100.0    28000    2146   0.815
Hodgdon TiteGroup                   47.0      6.8     0.44    1404   100.0    28000    2097   0.812
Norma R1                            71.7      6.4     0.42    1361   100.0    28000    1966   0.835