Win231 and 40sw

[dearslayer]

Anyone using Win231 with 165gr cast boolits? I don't have any data for this cast in my Lyman or Lee books. Can I use the data for Copper plated bullet of the same weight?

[chriskendziora]

Yes use cast data

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[dearslayer]

Yes use cast data

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That's my problem... I don't have data for cast for this boolit.

[P Flados]

At one end of the spectrum, things can be very safe. This is starting low, working up until you get reliable slide operation including last round hold open and then stopping.

Max loads in the 40 S&W are better if assembled with a full understanding of the potential impact of seating depth. Changing bullets can increase seating depth. For this round, increasing seating depth is your biggest risk for getting a bad result (significant chamber pressure increase). Quickload says a 0.008" increase in seating depth can require a 0.1 gr charge reduction.

Hodgdon on-line data for the Sierra 165 JHP is using a 0.593" long bullet that has a 0.298" seating depth at a 1.125" COAL according to Quickload. As long as you do not seat any deeper than 0.298" the Hodgdon data provides reasonable guidance. Start low & work up as always.

I saw some Campro data, but I did not see any info for bullet length and the data seemed incomplete (no velocity or pressure info).

[pworley1]

The Lyman No. 48 gives 4.3-5.8 for a 175g cast. That range should work for your bullet.

[justindad]

What mold are you using? How long is the bullet? What is your OAL?

[dearslayer]

The Lyman No. 48 gives 4.3-5.8 for a 175g cast. That range should work for your bullet.

I saw 2 boolits in my Lyman book for 2 different 175gr showing 4.3-5.8. Was thinking to use it as a starting point.

[dearslayer]

What mold are you using? How long is the bullet? What is your OAL?

I'm using the MP 402-165 TC 4 cavity Brass mold. The boolit is 0.5885. I've done a plunk test in the barrel and 1.1395 will plunk easily so 1.125 that is recommended for most data I've seen ( for Copper plated ) will plunk for sure.

[justindad]

Lyman’s Cast Bullet Manual #4 gives a starting chart for 231 of 4.3 grains with an OAL of 1.125” using the Lyman #401043 (175 grains) bullet. The velocity is 863 fps and pressure is 15,400 CUP. Max charge is 5.8 grains and max velocity is 977 fps. The three other bullets weighing 175 - 200 grain have max velocities with 232 of 964 - 1,001 fps. Tested with a 4” barrel. Consider your gun and barrel length, and pick for yourself a max safe velocity.

[justindad]

Also, some bullets have an unexplained behavior of going slower at higher pressure. Watch for pressure signs.

[justindad]

My copy of the 175 grain Lyman #401638 is 0.601” long.

[dearslayer]

Given my boolit is 166gr should I start at the 4.3gr and work up?

[justindad]

That’s what I would do. Got a chrono?

[dearslayer]

No unfortunately I don't have a chrono.One of the guys at my club has one and is gonna chrono some rounds with friends and asked me yesterday if i wanted to partake once I get some of these 40's loaded up. I'm using a para Ordnance 16/40 stainless Canadian made pistol with a 5" barrel.

[ranger391xt]

I tested HP-38/Win-231 loads with the HP version of the MP-401-165 TC. The bullets weighed 155 gr and were powder coated. These were tested in an S&W 4006.

My best groups with HP-38/Win-231, which fit inside the 9 ring of a B16-RC target, were with 5.0 and 5.3 grs. The 5.0 gr load had an average velocity of 957 fps, and the extreme spread for a 6 shot group was 32 fps and std dev of 12. The 5.3 gr load had an average velocity of 1024 fps, an extreme spread of 14 fps for 6 shots, and std dev of 6.

Groups were shot from a CTK Precision rest over a ProChrono DLX, target at 10 yds.

Of course, the disclaimer applies that this information should be used at your own risk, and your results may vary.




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[dearslayer]

I tested HP-38/Win-231 loads with the HP version of the MP-401-165 TC. The bullets weighed 155 gr and were powder coated. These were tested in an S&W 4006.

My best groups with HP-38/Win-231, which fit inside the 9 ring of a B16-RC target, were with 5.0 and 5.3 grs. The 5.0 gr load had an average velocity of 957 fps, and the extreme spread for a 6 shot group was 32 fps and std dev of 12. The 5.3 gr load had an average velocity of 1024 fps, an extreme spread of 14 fps for 6 shots, and std dev of 6.

Groups were shot from a CTK Precision rest over a ProChrono DLX, target at 10 yds.

Of course, the disclaimer applies that this information should be used at your own risk, and your results may vary.




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Thanks so much for the info. I think maybe my starting loads of 4.3 might be too low but better safe.

[dearslayer]

Ok so another issue that I've had in the past with the Lee factory Crimp die when loading cast boolits. After seating to desired depth I go to run it through the crimp die and it's difficult going in and takes some pressure and then it goes in and then it kind of jumps again before bottoming out at the crimp. Then when backing out it does the same thing only in reverse and the worst part is that it pulls the boolit back out!!i've taken it apart to clean and see nothing wrong with it. Its so frustrating because I have to check every round to ensure the boolit isn't pulled out.This doesn't happen with plated boolits.Plated goes in nice and smooth to crimp. Do I really need to crip these? It's making me not want to load cast and that sucks because I love casting and power coating and the whole process.

[justindad]

Your FCD is bad. Get a Redding profile crimp die. Until then - does your seater die have a crimp feature?
*
Note: it is best to seat and crimp in two separate operations. You can seat all bullets, and then reset your seating die so that it only crimps in the following operation.

[dearslayer]

Your FCD is bad. Get a Redding profile crimp die. Until then - does your seater die have a crimp feature?
*
Note: it is best to seat and crimp in two separate operations. You can seat all bullets, and then reset your seating die so that it only crimps in the following operation.

Legit question... In what way is it bad...what would happen to it under normal operation to cause it to do what it's doing? Yes I believe my Lee seating die has the crimp feature as well as seating.

[justindad]

It is not supposed to pull the bullet out of the case, so I’m figuring the inside diameter of your die is too small. Quality control is not one of the things associated with Lee. I use a FCD on .45 ACP and I know about the two clunks you described.
*
Remove the case sizing ring from your FCD so that the only operating is crimping. Let us know if that still pulls the bullet out.