Noobie Reloading

[Dahak]

How close are you to Fort Oglethorpe? Check out North Georgia Reloading there - prices are on the high side, but the guy who loads the non-high volume stuff (44 Mag and 357) is a good source for information. The 556/9mm guys know their stuff but are now thinking on the industrial scale and not as daily involved in manual processes.

You need to think stuff (reusable (gear) and consumable (primer, powder, bullets)), process, and knowledge. I watched a lot of YouTube until I started catching what I thought were errors (mostly things unsaid) then I felt ready to read. I used Lyman 49th. After reading I felt ready to start for real. I recommend picking the exact bullet and powder as listed in your manuals until you get some experience. One caliber, I echo the recommendation for a single stage press. I also recommend hand priming - priming on press was the source of most of my bad rounds at my beginning 3 years ago. At this point I could probably do priming on press correctly, but I now have a process that works for me and see no reason to change.

[Land Owner]

Finally, you really won't "need" a caliper but it's a nice thing to have. Last I checked, no matter the price or box color, I found that ALL of those branded by our various reloading companies were made in China by the same factory; I have several of those because I have no difficulty trusting them for reloading.

[ emphasis added]

I hope that portion in bold text was a tongue-in-cheek "recommendation", a sarcasm even, and a backhanded condemnation of Chicom equipment. You have "several" yourself AND trust them! Calipers (and micrometers) are made universally, even in the good old USA. Can you do without and reload accurate ammunition? I cannot.

A means to measure minute lengths, widths, and thicknesses is ESSENTIAL in reloading ammunition. Any recommendation otherwise is "something else" indeed.

[JSnover]

Finally, you really won't "need" a caliper but it's a nice thing to have.

To put it another way, it won't be long before you understand you need a caliper.

[Rich/WIS]

If buying new try Titan Reloading, in the heading of the page.

[Willbird]

Overall lots of great suggestions so far.

Just for basic ideas I would suggest you study the reloading manuals. Lyman is one of my favorites.

Quite often if you look at all of the loads listed some stand out as giving a lower pressure.

The "safest" loads are ones which totally fill the case with powder yet give a very low pressure. Bottom line too much powder simply will not fit into the case.

The most dangerous loads in my opinion are one where two or more charges of powder WILL fit into the case.

Making some good habits to start will be good.
1. Only one container/type of powder allowed on the reloading bench at any time. At first you may only have one type so that makes it easier.
2. Empty cases go mouth down
3. Only filled cases sit mouth up.
4. Once all the cases for a given charge weight are filled do a visual inspection.
5. If I were loading a series of test loads and using say 30.0 grains, 30.5 grains, 31.0 grains, 31.5 grains, 32.0 grains of powder I would prefer to seat bullets in each part of the series before I start charging more cases.

Learn to pay attention to the behavior of your powder scale, how the needle swings when you drop the powder and you will notice if it begins to act oddly. Check the powder scale zero before each use. Personally I would always suggest a balance type scale as ones "only" scale...the electronic ones are getting better but IMHO they are more an experts tool .

I totally agree about at bare minimum a caliper being needed, an inexpensive 0-1" micrometer could be good as well. I see those on Ebay for $17 shipped and they are a good tool to have. A $17 one would do just fine for any reloading uses. They are more precise than a caliper, maybe not strictly "needed" but a good investment. I am picky on calipers but my uses were for tool and die. My choices of digital calipers would sticker shock most folks LOL.

I would jump on this one right here and you will have a lifetime use tool for $65. No affiliation but it is my brand and a screaming deal for the $$ IMHO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13428117683...mis&media=COPY

Bill

[ddeck22]

Overall lots of great suggestions so far.

Just for basic ideas I would suggest you study the reloading manuals. Lyman is one of my favorites.

Quite often if you look at all of the loads listed some stand out as giving a lower pressure.

The "safest" loads are ones which totally fill the case with powder yet give a very low pressure. Bottom line too much powder simply will not fit into the case.

The most dangerous loads in my opinion are one where two or more charges of powder WILL fit into the case.

Making some good habits to start will be good.
1. Only one container/type of powder allowed on the reloading bench at any time. At first you may only have one type so that makes it easier.
2. Empty cases go mouth down
3. Only filled cases sit mouth up.
4. Once all the cases for a given charge weight are filled do a visual inspection.
5. If I were loading a series of test loads and using say 30.0 grains, 30.5 grains, 31.0 grains, 31.5 grains, 32.0 grains of powder I would prefer to seat bullets in each part of the series before I start charging more cases.

Learn to pay attention to the behavior of your powder scale, how the needle swings when you drop the powder and you will notice if it begins to act oddly. Check the powder scale zero before each use. Personally I would always suggest a balance type scale as ones "only" scale...the electronic ones are getting better but IMHO they are more an experts tool .

I totally agree about at bare minimum a caliper being needed, an inexpensive 0-1" micrometer could be good as well. I see those on Ebay for $17 shipped and they are a good tool to have. A $17 one would do just fine for any reloading uses. They are more precise than a caliper, maybe not strictly "needed" but a good investment. I am picky on calipers but my uses were for tool and die. My choices of digital calipers would sticker shock most folks LOL.

I would jump on this one right here and you will have a lifetime use tool for $65. No affiliation but it is my brand and a screaming deal for the $$ IMHO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13428117683...mis&media=COPY

Bill

And go slow to start, it's not a race. If you think it will take 1 hour, block off 2 so you don't feel pressure.

[Land Owner]

^^^ THAT ^^^

Slow and steady.
Concentrate.
Respect detail.
Consistency, consistency, consistency.

No distractions while reloading. No radio. No TV.
Especially no conversations with the spousal unit or GF.

If distracted, STOP WHAT YOU WERE DOING. Triple check EVERYTHING prior to proceeding - or potentially SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

Do you like your face? Your eyesight? Your hands? Your guns? Then HEED these warnings. Your safety is IN YOUR OWN HANDS. We do this ourselves and do not take safety lightly.

This is a SAFE hobby. Keep it safe and without distractions.

[1hole]

[ emphasis added]

I hope that portion in bold text was a tongue-in-cheek "recommendation", a sarcasm even, and a backhanded condemnation of Chicom equipment. You have "several" yourself AND trust them! Calipers (and micrometers) are made universally, even in the good old USA. Can you do without and reload accurate ammunition? I cannot.

A means to measure minute lengths, widths, and thicknesses is ESSENTIAL in reloading ammunition. Any recommendation otherwise is "something else" indeed.

Tongue in cheek? No. And it's fact, not sarcasm.

Note that I directly addressed the OP's questions. He obviously wanted suggestions about what he needs to started in reloading at a minimum initial cost and that's exactly what I gave him. The .444 is not a precision bench shooter's dream no matter what tools are used to load for it. I specifically wasn't trying to tell the OP what YOU (or I) may think is "essential" for our experienced goals.

I post information based on the questioner's needs and desires, not mine. I was not an instant expert at this stuff when I started and I still remember how intimidated I was as a noob. I had a lot of learning to do just to get to the basic beginner's line, way before precision case and bullet measurements mattered at all. I suspect you had a similar learning curve.

I began reloading in 1965 when I was a new member in the Titusville (FL) Rifle and Pistol Club near you. Micrometers and calipers were all professional machinist tools at that time; Starrett or German/Swiss, et al. They all cost way more than they were worth to most of us. The club had several reloading members who safely made quite accurate ammo and freely gave verbal advice to noobs but I know (knew) of no one who owned mics and calipers in those days because precision measuring tools were never mentioned; they could not have been essential.

Neither micrometers nor calipers were sold by any mail-order reloading company I know of in those days. They were not even suggested by any reloading manual's beginner pages that I ever read. But we all stumbled along without dying or being blinded. Most of us learned to make quite good ammo by careful trial and error.

My first case length measurements (for safety) was an inexpensive one piece multi-caliber snap-gage precisely made of cast aluminum; there was nothing fancy about it but it worked. I didn't get my first (Sears/Roebuck) micrometer until about 1975 and my first six inch (vernier) caliper about 1980 but I had already learned to make sub MOA ammo for my only accurate rifle at the time (Browning/Sako .22-250). And, like my old gun club comrades, I had fun doing it.

So, regardless of your strong opinion (and I fully agree that both of those precision measurement tools are indeed happy assets (to an experienced reloader) but I know they still aren't essential for anyone. In fact, I'll ask if you actually believe they are any more necessary today for "good" reloading than perhaps digital powder scales are to a reasonably intelligent reloading noob who wants to learn the essentials of reloading while making some good shooting ammo and doing it inexpensively? I say, "NO, having those specialist tools were not critical for reloaders back then and they are not critical today!"

IF I'm wrong then no one prior to about 1980, after the Chinese started making good mics/calipers that were inexpensive enough for our market, could have made safe and good shooting ammo because we simply didn't have them, they were too costly.

So, saying those instruments are essential was obviously untrue back then and it remains untrue today, especially so for noobs loading for such rifles as Marlin's 50 year old .444 shooting lead boolits. In fact, while I really like that junior .45-70 rig for what it is, I believe it's laughable to say otherwise.

[Land Owner]

I'll ask if you actually believe they are any more necessary today for "good" reloading than perhaps digital powder scales are to a reasonably intelligent reloading noob who wants to learn the essentials of reloading while making some good shooting ammo and doing it inexpensively?

If he can find a Lee Loader for the 444, he would be well served, and no, there is no caliper in the Lee Loader, but neither is there a digital powder scale, just a scoop. I made 30-30 and 270 ammo for 3-years that were spot-on game to table good with Lee Loaders, just slow rolling, followed by the purchase of a beam scale and a caliper when I got serious. So, presses, scales, calipers, kits (to a degree - the Lee Loader is a cheap kit), et al, are not required to get started, just an inquisitive mind, a place to ask questions, reading material, and not two Old Guys "at odds" over nothing.

[swOhioMatt]

Go with a press you can bench mount. It will save a lot of frustration. This looks okay and the price is easy.
https://leeprecision.com/recondition...teel-base.html

BTW, this isn’t difficult.
1. Full length size. No shoulder on the 444, adjust the die to touch the shell holder. You’ll need lube. The tapered case means no carbide sizers are available.
https://leeprecision.com/3-die-steel-444-marlin.html
2. If you’re worried, check case length. Lee makes an inexpensive tool. For $21 and change you’ve got an accurate overall case length. Much cheaper than even a Chinese mic, and you still would need a case trimmer.
https://leeprecision.com/gage-holder-444-marlin.html
https://leeprecision.com/case-condtioning-combo.html
Then chamfer the mouth. If you don’t, you may crush your cases while seating the bullet.
3. Seat primer
4. Add powder. The Lee powder dippers will get you through without a lot of expense. You’ll get the right size dipper with a set of Lee dies.
5. Seat bullet. Push it in until the crimp groove lines up with the case mouth. Then readjust the seat die to add a roll crimp. Don’t worry about overall length. If the bullet has a canalure or crimp groove and was meant for 444, then your length will be right.

$132.00 is it and you have all the equipment necessary. This may be where you stop, or you may go ape and get a progressive like a Dillon 750. There’s also a lot of equipment in between the two extremes. You’ll figure out what you do and do not need.

[Three44s]

I started with a universal case gauge but a caliper is much more versatile, measures something that a case gauge like mine misses (overall cartridge length) and costs no more.

Three44s

[scooterwrench]

I've got two presses. An old Pacific single stage O-frame and a fairly new Lee single stage O-frame. I actually prefer the Lee. I modified the Lee so it cams over at the top of the stroke which greatly improves its accuracy. If you have the ability I strongly suggest making the improvement.

A good balance beam scale(not Lee)

A good powder measure(again not Lee)

I prefer the pressing primers in with a hand press. It's really fast and you can feel when they bottom a lot better.

Dial caliper of decent quality. You can determine the quality by how the rack gear is fastened. Screws good,epoxy junk.
Electronic calipers lie by .001"(even Mititoyo) which is not critical in reloading ammo but a big problem for other jobs I do and they eliminate the cuss fest when you grab it up and the battery is dead.

The 444 Lee dies are eh,OK and will get the job done. I use Reddings,they make very consistent ammo.

There is lots of good written reloading info out there. The 48th edition Lyman is my favorite go to.

IMR 4198 and Reloader 7 are good powders for the 444.

There is a pretty good array of bullets in .429"-.431" I like the Hornady XTP and FTX's for hunting and just about any lead pills for plinking. Don't misunderstand,lead will kill critters too.

[1hole]

Scooter, you make some thought provoking (and true) observations.

I've got two presses. An old Pacific single stage O-frame and a fairly new Lee single stage O-frame. I actually prefer the Lee. I modified the Lee so it cams over at the top of the stroke which greatly improves its accuracy. If you have the ability I strongly suggest making the improvement.

I got my first mid-priced single stage "C" press (Lyman) in '65; got my second press some 30 years later. Over the last 20+ years I've picked up 4 more presses, all ranging from the presumed "best" (RCBS' RC) to the cheapest (Lee's little Reloader) but I still don't have, don't need and don't even want a progressive. (Sure, if anyone wants to GIVE me a Dillion tomorrow I'll happily take it but I sure won't pay for one!)

My point is that none of us have to be stuck our first purchases forever. If a noob starts today with basic gear and totally out grows it later (hardly likely), so what? His first "cheep" tools will still have a place on his bench no matter what his later purchases may bring.

I believe too many people think the best reloading demands costly tools, perhaps especially presses. Like, "Everyone knows Lee's tools can't load as "accurate" as high priced tools, right?" Wrong! Accurate ammo rises from a reloader's skill, not the size, volume or price of his bench tool's.

A good balance beam scale(not Lee)

Scales cost an arm and leg these days; why shouldn't a noob start with a Lee Safety Scale? I have one and it's quite good. I don't like using it very much because it's so light but that's a personal thing for clumsy ol' me because I know it's as accurate as any beam scale made, and it's actually more sensitive than my others (Lyman/Ohaus M-5 and a Redding,
and a cheep digital I only use for bullets and cases, NOT powder!).

A good powder measure(again not Lee)

Again, why not an adjustable Lee measure? I've found mine to be a bit more consistent with coarse powders (IMR 4831) than my Redding! BUT, I will agree that Lee's original Perfect Powder Measure isn't perfect; there is often a learning curve for setting it up properly and it's quite good after that.

I prefer the pressing primers in with a hand press. It's really fast and you can feel when they bottom a lot better.

Ditto, but I seated a LOT of primers on that old Lyman press!

Dial caliper of decent quality.

YES! And I like dial calipers because they don't have batteries!

My mechanist friends have told me that all calipers are expected to be within +/- 1 thou anywhere on their scale. Anyone wanting better than that needs a good micrometer.

The 444 Lee dies are eh,OK and will get the job done. I use Reddings, they make very consistent ammo.

I LUV my Redding and Forster/Bonanza Competition seating dies but I only pay those prices for my best shooting rifles; IMHO, they are tied for first place. Everything else - and I mean everything else, no matter the price or web adherent's hype - is tied for second place.

There is lots of good written reloading info out there. The 48th edition Lyman is my favorite go to.

Amen. My first reloading manual was Lyman's #43. I learned how to load from their beginner instructions and haven't missed any version since. Yeah, I do have a short book rack full of loading manuals now! All of them have good information but my starting place remains Lyman.

[mdatlanta]

^^^ that ^^^

slow and steady.
Concentrate.
Respect detail.
Consistency, consistency, consistency.

No distractions while reloading. No radio. No tv.
Especially no conversations with the spousal unit or gf.

If distracted, stop what you were doing. Triple check everything prior to proceeding - or potentially suffer the consequences.

Do you like your face? Your eyesight? Your hands? Your guns? Then heed these warnings. Your safety is in your own hands. We do this ourselves and do not take safety lightly.

This is a safe hobby. Keep it safe and without distractions.

^^^this!!^^^

[SoonerEd]

On the calipers make sure you get the ones that measure .001. They have some really cheap one that are .01 which is useless.

[swOhioMatt]

This is gonna be fun to watch…

Yep, you were right!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Specific to the 444, I have the Lee 3 Die 444 Marlin set along with the Lee Factory Crimp, you may need a case mouth expander to flare or bell the case mouth when using cast bullets. I use .432 diameter cast bullets with good accuracy. There are many .44 bullets available, most undersize, that will introduce you to severe leading. The Lee Breechlock hand press should work well. The ABC's of Reloading is a good first book, Modern Reloading by Richard Lee has a lot of good information, as does the the Lyman 50th Manual. The 444 Marlin is amazingly accurate in both my Marlin .444's, using the Hornady Flat Nose 265 grain or the Speer 300 grain, MOA is made, scoped of course. My most accurate powder has been H322 for top end jacketed loads. For milder cast boolit loads, 5744, 4227, Unique and other pistol powders can work for pleasant fun loads. I have both Remington and Starline brass, preferring the Starline due to its thicker rim controlling headspace better. A stainless STEEL Dial caliper, Lyman, RCBS, Hornady can do almost everything a micrometer can do until you want to measure in tenths - .0001. The caliper can go to half-third of a thousandth which is usually close enough. Most of the LEE products work very well, but you will here much against lee from Lee haters and reloading snobs. I have a lot of reloading 'STUFF' and I like Lee.

[country gent]

A new reloader starting out with the basics is a good way to go for several reasons. 1) initial outlay or cost, on a budget is important. 2) space available. 3) learning the basic steps and processes first is a plus. 4) as he progresses he will see realize and be able to make decisions on additional or upgrades of equipment

Starting out loading to bench rest standards and the additional case prep would be a much more daunting task.

While calipers and a mic are nice to have and I started out with out them. A good case gauge and feeler gauge will get them by with decent accuracy and repeatability. The cheap feeler gauge can be used to set dies. and measure adjustments. What I consider the most important first addition is a good small vice a clamp on or even a drill press style for when that third hand is needed.

For years and before accurate hunting and plinking ammo has been loaded on 310 and the lee loader tools using a powder scoop and very little more. The plains hunters and settlers didnt have scales and precision measuring tools but loaded ammo to suit their needs

[justindad]

If you are using the exact bullet specified in a load manual with a compressed load, you should be able to reasonably feel the compressed load and calipers wouldn’t be needed. However, when I was just starting I wasn’t comfortable with compressed loads.
*
If you are loading revolver rounds with the exact bullet specified in the manual and you correctly place the mouth of the case into the cannelure, you shouldn’t need calipers.
*
I would not recommend loading 9mm with a fast powder and not have calipers on hand.
*
I used calipers to confirm my primers were 0.003” subflush minimum until I developed the feel for that.
*
I guess it comes down to your budget and risk tolerance. If you can’t afford the risk and you can’t afford calipers to mitigate the risk, then you can’t afford to reload your own ammo.

[15meter]

This is gonna be fun to watch…

Kind of impressive, 40 responses to a guy that registered, posted one time, then has never been back since.



Wonder how much the dude is getting out of this.