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Thread: winchester commemoratives finally going up

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmbif View Post
    for decades now the value of winchester commemorative guns hasn't kept pace with value of the dollar. well things just might be turning around.
    im watching a 24" centennial 66 on gun broker, its currently bid up to $1325. its used gun but has original box. but has scratch marks where someone who didn't know better tried to polish the 24k gold plated finish
    Several years back I had a yearning for a .38-55 and eventually saw one in a local shop. The Legendary Frontiersman, I also bought a few boxes of Win ammo, so labeled, to accompany it. While I never purchased either as "an investment" I recently saw some of the ammo being SOLD at a gun show for about five times what I gave for it. I have no recollection what I paid for the rifle, nor what it may today be worth. I had the yearning to buy it at the time; and when I shine a flashlight beam in safe and see it -- still happy it is mine. Maybe a bit dysfunctional, compared to others -- but MY take on rifles. Yes -- perhaps the Commemoratives were/are a chintzy attempt to boost sales -- but it worked for them as well as me in, at least, I got a pretty .38-55 !
    geo

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    It would be interesting to poll the blokes slinging mud at the commemoratives and get an answer how many black paint and plastic stocked modern crap-o-matics they have stashed in the cupboard - picaninny rails - and flash hiders .................?
    I counter with the compass and the thing that tells time in the stock of your Red Ryder.

    I just did a quick skim through the Winchester Commemorative section of the Blue Book. A number of them are about what you'd expect - a short run of a few hundred guns. Some of them, however, look to have production numbers in the five digit range.

    Makes me wonder if anyone has ever sat down and figured out what percentage of the total production of 1894's were dolled-up commemorative models.

    And all joking aside, considering how high both Winchester and Remington rose, and how hard they fell, it would make for an interesting study of socio-economics to look at what killed them. The commemoratives were probably not the disease, but may well have been a symptom.
    WWJMBD?

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    I counter with the compass and the thing that tells time in the stock of your Red Ryder.

    I just did a quick skim through the Winchester Commemorative section of the Blue Book. A number of them are about what you'd expect - a short run of a few hundred guns. Some of them, however, look to have production numbers in the five digit range.

    Makes me wonder if anyone has ever sat down and figured out what percentage of the total production of 1894's were dolled-up commemorative models.

    And all joking aside, considering how high both Winchester and Remington rose, and how hard they fell, it would make for an interesting study of socio-economics to look at what killed them. The commemoratives were probably not the disease, but may well have been a symptom.
    I think the bean counters killed winchester ---or maybe it was the lack of a big enough war ? (joe is workin on that as we write)

    Rather than upgrade equipment and continue making quality firearms - in 1964? they went in to what I call their diecast and plastic phase -

    I once owned a model 150 LA carbine in 22RF - the diecast alloy action failed after about ten years - yeah I used it - it was a fun gun to shoot with and accurate but poorly designed and cheaply constructed .

    They cheapened the design of the 94 - those post '64 carbines were rough and clunky all because of the change in mainspring and elimination of the little stirrup piece -- inproved some later with a coil mainspring but really how much did this save?

    For me the one that escaped was the model 70 (this will get lots of argument!) I wore out a 1970 vintage 22/250 in serious work shooting - it is a fine rifle, accurate, pretty wood, that gun educated me to detest mauser actions

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    For me the one that escaped was the model 70 (this will get lots of argument!) I wore out a 1970 vintage 22/250 in serious work shooting - it is a fine rifle, accurate, pretty wood, that gun educated me to detest mauser actions
    We need the rest of the story on this one.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    I think the bean counters killed winchester ---or maybe it was the lack of a big enough war ? (joe is workin on that as we write)

    Rather than upgrade equipment and continue making quality firearms - in 1964? they went in to what I call their diecast and plastic phase -

    I once owned a model 150 LA carbine in 22RF - the diecast alloy action failed after about ten years - yeah I used it - it was a fun gun to shoot with and accurate but poorly designed and cheaply constructed .

    They cheapened the design of the 94 - those post '64 carbines were rough and clunky all because of the change in mainspring and elimination of the little stirrup piece -- inproved some later with a coil mainspring but really how much did this save?

    For me the one that escaped was the model 70 (this will get lots of argument!) I wore out a 1970 vintage 22/250 in serious work shooting - it is a fine rifle, accurate, pretty wood, that gun educated me to detest mauser actions
    I get the rant part of your post, I don't know what you mean by that 22-250?


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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    We need the rest of the story on this one.
    the (mauser) claw extractor - cant drop a round in the chamber and close the bolt - my post 64 model 70 - its simple and easy - keep the magazine full you might need em all when you turn the next corner

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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    the (mauser) claw extractor - cant drop a round in the chamber and close the bolt - my post 64 model 70 - its simple and easy - keep the magazine full you might need em all when you turn the next corner
    I enjoyed the long version of the story. Thanks. I was just going to reply when it disappeared.

    On the 98's the extractor can be modified to snap over the case head or topped off thru the swing floor plate if it has one. As you stated the push feed very easy to top off.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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  8. #48
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    Asking $AU17,000 for this!

    https://usedguns.com.au/gun/327383/
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Ass Wallace View Post
    Asking $AU17,000 for this!

    https://usedguns.com.au/gun/327383/

    Two the actually sold here for $6,900 and $10,925. They are actually very nice looking but I would have hard time taking it deer hunting.

    https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...rbine-3030-win

    https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...tue-of-liberty

    The engraver is the same one that did my Winchester Model 94 Great Western Artists II Commemorative. Mine looks a drunken third grader on crack engraved mine. For $325.00 mine makes a fine deer rifle. https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...del-94-carbine
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 02-01-2022 at 10:20 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  10. #50
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    In 1985 I bought a Dodge “Marksman” edition pickup. I came with a Dodge Ram commemorative Win 94. I kept it unfired in box until 2018. Found at it was probably worth less than a non-commemorative model. So I took it out for some air. I have been using it when I teach Rifle and Range Safety Officer classes. Lately I have gotten the hankering to shoot it. Right in the middle of the everything shortage. I now have a mould, gas checks, and everything else I need, except a sizing die I just ordered from Lathesmith. So maybe around the end of March I’ll be shooting it.
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  11. #51
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    The first Winchester Commemorative Rifle I ever saw was the 1967 Canadian Centennial with the 26" Octagonal barrel. It belonged to one of my dad's friends. I was only 10 years old then and I fell in love with that rifle the second I laid eyes on it. The next year when the Buffalo Bill guns came out, I thought they were just as cool and I was going crazy trying to dream up how I would get $129.00 to buy one and talk my dad into signing for it. By the summer of 72 I started cutting grass in our Neiborhood and when I made enough cash and sweet talked my dad into letting me buy one, we went to the local Gunshop to get one but, none could be found. I week later they found me a Lone Star Commemorative Rifle and the next year I shot my first deer with that gun. I have purchased a few other of the Commemorative Rifles over the years and enjoy them very much. The Chief Crazy Horse was the last one I ever bought. It seems hard to believe people are bashing these fine old guns.
    Last edited by Just plain Bill; 02-13-2022 at 02:07 AM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just plain Bill View Post
    The first Winchester Commemorative Rifle I ever saw was the 1967 Canadian Centennial with the 26" Octagonal barrel. It belonged to one of my dad's friends. I was only 10 years old then and I fell in love with that rifle the second I laid eyes on it. The next year when the Buffalo Bill guns came out, I thought they were just as cool and I was going crazy trying to dream up how I would get $129.00 to buy one and talk my dad into signing for it. By the summer of 72 I started cutting grass in our Neiborhood and when I made enough cash and sweet talked my dad into letting buy one, we went to the local Gunshop to get one but, none could be found. I week later they found me a Lone Star Commemorative Rifle and the next year I shot my first deer with that gun. I have purchased a few other of the Commemorative Rifles over the years and enjoy them very much. The Chief Crazy Horse was the last one I ever bought. It seems hard to believe people are bashing these fine old guns.
    It's not the guns that are being bashed. Some commemoratives are very nice and some not so much. What is being bashed is (for the most part) they were a very poor investment. As a hunting gun some are way too shinny so you can purchase them for less than a non-commemorative.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  13. #53
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    A friend of mine got out of general stamp collecting, IIRC, in the early-to-mid 80’s.

    It wasn’t bad enough, he groused, that the Post Office had dropped the engraved printing plates for the offset lithograph process (I think that was how he described it, various color blobs shoved together without lined boundaries vs the fine-line banknote look of the previous issues), but now they were, as he called it, “manufacturing collectors’ items.” And, sure enough, I started noticing that every time I went to buy stamps (for using, not collecting), I was offered a bewildering array of short-run commemorations of everything from the Alamo Sesquicentennial to pop historical figures to various celebrations of “Love” in all its guises. For some reason, I was able to resist the compulsion to “Collect Them All!!!”

    I’d have a hard time imagining that binders full of these manufactured collectors’ items would set any bidding records at a Sotheby’s auction, but I do have to admit, too, that I seem to be more and more out of touch with the thinking processes of the younger generations anymore. So maybe these Franklin Mint commemoratives and these factory offerings of standard models dressed up with brass-plated receivers with computer “engraving” will ring somebody’s chimes, but they don’t do much for me.

    Another friend, who is profoundly uninterested in guns was offered one of these Commemorative Winchesters as an investment. At this late date, I can’t recall whether it was the Eastern New Jersey Waste Management Association Commemorative or the Florida Panhandle Proctologist’s Association Commemorative, but it was without box or papers and had been fired. He asked around and found that what appreciation these guns experienced (and it wasn’t much, back then) only happened with those specimens which had not been fired, cocked, or even removed from the packaging. If any of these things happened, the gun was merely a dolled-up shooter, awaiting that distinct minority that didn’t mind taking a rather garish gun into the field. He passed.

    There is a real opportunity here, for those of free and easy virtue. Carefully open the box, remove the gun without disturbing papers or wrapping, insert the appropriate weight of 2x4 and steel pipe taped together, reseal the package undetectably, use the gun as needed and sell the package to a “serious collector,” who will never open it. Shoot the gun as one wishes, and sell it when boredom sets in. Who’s gonna know?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    A friend of mine got out of general stamp collecting, IIRC, in the early-to-mid 80’s.

    It wasn’t bad enough, he groused, that the Post Office had dropped the engraved printing plates for the offset lithograph process (I think that was how he described it, various color blobs shoved together without lined boundaries vs the fine-line banknote look of the previous issues), but now they were, as he called it, “manufacturing collectors’ items.” And, sure enough, I started noticing that every time I went to buy stamps (for using, not collecting), I was offered a bewildering array of short-run commemorations of everything from the Alamo Sesquicentennial to pop historical figures to various celebrations of “Love” in all its guises. For some reason, I was able to resist the compulsion to “Collect Them All!!!”

    I’d have a hard time imagining that binders full of these manufactured collectors’ items would set any bidding records at a Sotheby’s auction, but I do have to admit, too, that I seem to be more and more out of touch with the thinking processes of the younger generations anymore. So maybe these Franklin Mint commemoratives and these factory offerings of standard models dressed up with brass-plated receivers with computer “engraving” will ring somebody’s chimes, but they don’t do much for me.

    Another friend, who is profoundly uninterested in guns was offered one of these Commemorative Winchesters as an investment. At this late date, I can’t recall whether it was the Eastern New Jersey Waste Management Association Commemorative or the Florida Panhandle Proctologist’s Association Commemorative, but it was without box or papers and had been fired. He asked around and found that what appreciation these guns experienced (and it wasn’t much, back then) only happened with those specimens which had not been fired, cocked, or even removed from the packaging. If any of these things happened, the gun was merely a dolled-up shooter, awaiting that distinct minority that didn’t mind taking a rather garish gun into the field. He passed.

    There is a real opportunity here, for those of free and easy virtue. Carefully open the box, remove the gun without disturbing papers or wrapping, insert the appropriate weight of 2x4 and steel pipe taped together, reseal the package undetectably, use the gun as needed and sell the package to a “serious collector,” who will never open it. Shoot the gun as one wishes, and sell it when boredom sets in. Who’s gonna know?
    Did people really buy these things and not open the package? really?

    I had already had a couple 30/30's and a 375 BB ---I wanted a longer barrel and I wanted a 38/55 - sold a worn out 92 package deal to a collector and that got me the O F Winchester commemorative - I would like it better if the gold plating would change into Blue finish but its a quality, well built gun, smooth action, scary accurate, and I like it to shoot. Therein lies the problem, I seem to want to keep the ones that shoot good and moreso if I happen to shoot them good - its been easy to overlook the paint job on this one!!

  15. #55
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    20 years of gun auctions at the big Auctioneers the only Win Com that drew any cross bids were the ones in 38/55. Some went way over a Grand while all the others did not get bid to non-commemorative copies.

    In my shop a commemorative I would onlyoffer1/2 what a non com would be worth. I had to make money to stay open and commemoratives don't make any worth bothering with IMHO

  16. #56
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    Nephew's FIL was big on western guns, colts and Winchesters. Gave his daughter and new SIL each a commemorative 30/30. Yup, pretty but just a rifle. He had a big room of guns that went on consignment when he passed and she didn't get much $.
    Whatever!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer in NH View Post
    20 years of gun auctions at the big Auctioneers the only Win Com that drew any cross bids were the ones in 38/55. Some went way over a Grand while all the others did not get bid to non-commemorative copies.

    In my shop a commemorative I would onlyoffer1/2 what a non com would be worth. I had to make money to stay open and commemoratives don't make any worth bothering with IMHO
    makes an interesting question - how many would they have sold if they had offered a blued 94 in 38/55 - classic rifle configuration - 24inch octagon barrel, decent wood, gently curved buttplate, maybe the semi pistol grip stock ?

    I am not a fan of what they did but there were some nice guns among them (the 38/55's) and some equally not nice (brass plated carbines in 44/40 for starters) - I got a nice shooter out of it for cheap $'s

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