I use my lee expander to fix out of round case openings.
One round at a time.
Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.
NOE makes expanders that fit in the Lee body. They work great and are offered in a number of sizes and not very expensive. You will have to size the case first.
I have both and switch back and forth frequently, especially in quarter bore. 25-20 and 25 Krag AI that I'm feeding.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
apples and oranges
I have both - over the years, the Lee has been used for certain things but it flairs - not like the M die. I spent a bit of money on M-dies - especially for rifle cartridges - all I shooy is cast. A few months ago, I purchased a good selection on the NOE expanding plugs that work in the Lee Universal Expander die - they work great. IMHO - that is the way to go.
I'm not being critical of the Lee die - it's nice to have when you need it - for want of a better description - it taper flairs so I kind of compare it to a shoehorn.
I buy a Lee Expander and NOE insert for most calibers I load. The consistency I feel on seating die station tells me the difference getting consistent neck tension makes. I would say I see it on target but that would require shall we say facts not in evidence, better ammo don't make me a better shot but I will say the larger mold and sizing die and neck sizing adds up to more consistent accuracy than store bought.
I have a few turrets set up with "special" dies. Universal decapper AND a Lee Universal expander are two dies on those special turrets. When I remove primers for cleaning and have a mouth that is a little distorted a quick twist of the turret to the expander allows me to bump the mouth and confirm the case can be given a round mouth again. Avoids issues when I'm feeding the brass to a form die later.
The Lee "expander" prevents lead shaving, nothing more, nothing less. Should provide the least amount of flaring needed to accomplish that. Well maybe it makes it a bit easier to get the bullet positioned upright when seating in addition to preventing lead shaving. I adjust so the die does very little working of the mouth of the case.
The NOE is providing consistent neck tension matched to the bullet. Makes things more consistent and as others have pointed out avoids squeezing your carefully sized lead projectile down to some default case neck diameter. My first was for 303 British cast at .314 for a reason, wasn't going to be leaving the case mouth at .314 if not for the neck expander because .312 is "normal" bullet the case sizing die is made for.
Last edited by RogerDat; 10-15-2021 at 07:44 PM.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
After digesting the above useful information...
RE the NOE expander plugs and their descriptions: If one is loading .309 bullets, does one order the .309 x .305 plug, or must one
calculate the clearance factor and order the .310 x .306 plug?
(I am assuming the second figures (.305; .306 are the length of the actual plug??)
Am I correct assume all I will need is a Lee Expander (actually flaring) die and the NOE plug of the appropriate size, which will drop into the Lee die and work without needing anything else?
For .309 cast bullet select .312x308. But that one is out of stock so maybe get .313x309?
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...-rifle/page/2/
Yes, all you would need is the Lee die and the NOE expander plug.
The larger number is the upper part of the plug which opens the first few thousandths of the case mouth oversize to guide the bullet as you seat it. Same as the Lyman plug does.
Last edited by uscra112; 10-18-2021 at 06:33 AM.
Cognitive Dissident
I started out using the Lee universal die for my 308 and 30-30 loads. It made a rather crude bell on the case mouths but did not promote concentric boolit seating. I then switched to the Noe expanders ( you use these with the Lee die body) and they worked much better.
I must be doing something wrong. I use Lee expander dies in all of my rifle loads and I have yet to seat a bullet crooked.
I'll try again today, I am loading 75 rounds of 308.
RCBS makes a 30 cal neck expander that also bells the mouth a smidge. They offer a variety of spuds that screw into the die to give a wide variety of inside neck diameters that will cover all cast bullet needs.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
Since 2010 RCBS pistol expanders have been "M" type? So i read. True or false? My new 2021 9mm Luger has the M expander.
For the 30-06 the Lyman M die is the one i used
Last edited by 243winxb; 10-18-2021 at 11:38 AM.
I have 3, the lee universal, the Lyman universal and m dies, for most calibers I end up using the m dies.
they will all work once set up properly
The only RCBS pistol expanders that have the "M" shelf, that I know about, is the powder-through expanders made to drop into Uniflows. I don't think any of their expander plugs that go into an expander die do....that I'm aware of anyway. The exception is the new rifle expanders.
The new rifle expanders that come with the new Tube Rifle Bullet Feeder dies definitely do. I tested one a while back and liked it so well I bought the .308 version too. The single .223 bullet stuck straight, with no bullet stack necessary even. So far they only come in .223 and .308. Noe plugs in the Lee expanders are the only show in town for pistol expander dies beyond RCBS's and DAA's Powder through expanders in Uniflows or Dillon powder measures. (that I'm aware of)
Test video below....single bullet (no stack) with case first expanded with their M style expander:
Nice straight hold held well enough for any progressive merry-go-round.
Last edited by GWS; 10-21-2021 at 12:16 AM.
The problem with the M dies is you need a seperate one for each and every caliber.
Granted the Lee does not do the same thing. But you can buy one reasonably priced die and get by.
I truly believe we need to get back to basics.
Get right with the Lord.
Get back to the land.
Get back to thinking like our forefathers thought.
May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you
and give you His peace. Let all of the earth – all of His creation – worship and praise His name! Make His
praise glorious!
I suppose we all have less or more aggravation tolerance. Mine is lower....that's why I have two progressives.....and my progressives have separate removable die holders.......one for each caliber. Even if I was able to "tolerate" the Lee Universal Expander, I'd have to have one for each die head. I'd much rather have an "M" style expander on each than one that just bevels, and allows each bullet to tilt and have to be fed into the seater by hand.
And how many of us have experienced bitten, or pinched fingers being a little too slow getting them out of the way, while trying trying to load with some semblance of smooth and continuous operation.
I suppose if you load with a single stage you can "get by"and patience is your virtue.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |