Subsonic 55 grain 223.

[Hills of texas]

Road kill is left in the bar ditch. Illegal to take possession of it. Meat from culling is processed and donated to food banks. I own and operate a large taxidermy and wild game processing business, so I can certain it gets where it needs to go. I think there’s a big disconnect between what happens down here and what takes place up there. The last few months we run at 1500 deer through our facilities, so I get to see results from all kinds of calibers. Probably a quarter of them were 223 and they were just as dead as the deer shot with 300win mag. To each their own.

[Dimner]

Road kill is left in the bar ditch. Illegal to take possession of it. Meat from culling is processed and donated to food banks. I own and operate a large taxidermy and wild game processing business, so I can certain it gets where it needs to go. I think there’s a big disconnect between what happens down here and what takes place up there. The last few months we run at 1500 deer through our facilities, so I get to see results from all kinds of calibers. Probably a quarter of them were 223 and they were just as dead as the deer shot with 300win mag. To each their own.

You see zero percent of deer wounded by 22cal and not found

[Dimner]

On the topic of deer calibers... I have a strong feeling that us up here in michigan do not see deer as a pest or something to cull. When we hunt we hunt for 100% success as some of us only get 1 or 2 tags a year. So of course we are not going to waste those attempts on an underperforming caliber. Also keep in mind that a majority of Michigan's hunters (when on private land) are hunting on 20 acres or less. So we tend to like that deer to drop very close to where it was shot.

However, for culling do what makes you happy and fits the requirements of the job you have to do.

[BJK]

Fresh road kill only Hills. Typically the car that hit the deer is there when the game warden shows up and the deer is offered to the person with the damaged car. Lots of times it's accepted but if not it goes to a food pantry. But moose, for those a local sportmans club is called to come dress it out and that all goes to a food pantry, soup kitchen something like that. With any luck the owner of the car lived through it. Typically they come right over the hood and through the windshield. A moose collision can be a very ugly scene and you can't see the moose until you're right on top of it. Many times the moose just shakes it off and trots away.

Then there's this. Yes the Road Kill Restaurant exists. https://archive.seattletimes.com/arc...6&slug=1889902

[Hills of texas]

I bet a moose would be about like hitting a horse. When we was a police officer, I had worked a vehicle vs horse one time. It wasn’t good for horse or driver.

[gbrown]

Hmm. 243 have been used extensively in TX for our Whitetail. .243 minus .224. 0.019. I've seen Whitetail down here torn up by. 224. Just saying. My 2 oldest grandsons took their first Whitetail with a Contender .223, one at 125 yards, one at 30 yard. 1st ran 50 yards, 2nd made it 10 yards. It'll do the job down here.

[gbrown]

BTW, livestock on the roadway suck. Big hog or cow are a big STOP! Horse, probably also a Moose, you looking at an animal in the windshield. Horses and Moose have higher center of gravity. We lost a night supervisor to a couple of horses one night when I was assigned to night patrol, years ago.

[Lloyd Smale]

On the topic of deer calibers... I have a strong feeling that us up here in michigan do not see deer as a pest or something to cull. When we hunt we hunt for 100% success as some of us only get 1 or 2 tags a year. So of course we are not going to waste those attempts on an underperforming caliber. Also keep in mind that a majority of Michigan's hunters (when on private land) are hunting on 20 acres or less. So we tend to like that deer to drop very close to where it was shot.

However, for culling do what makes you happy and fits the requirements of the job you have to do.

I live up here and do do culling. Still have the same respect for those deer as i do a 10 pointer. My first goal is to put them down fast and cleanly and with as little pain as possible. Just dont see the mentality in trying to get away with the smallest possible gun. I guess it makes some feel manly. Probably not one single guy on here that is on the side of 22s for deer that doesnt have a proper gun. Kind of like going to build a home with a tiny ball peen hammer and a hacksaw. Sure doesnt prove your a better carpenter. In fact just the opposite.

[Lloyd Smale]

Road kill is left in the bar ditch. Illegal to take possession of it. Meat from culling is processed and donated to food banks. I own and operate a large taxidermy and wild game processing business, so I can certain it gets where it needs to go. I think there’s a big disconnect between what happens down here and what takes place up there. The last few months we run at 1500 deer through our facilities, so I get to see results from all kinds of calibers. Probably a quarter of them were 223 and they were just as dead as the deer shot with 300win mag. To each their own.

so you ask every man dropping off a deer what they shot it with and keep count and inspect wound channels and keep notes?????????

[Land Owner]

The friction here is "political correctness" (not alerting the nosey neighbors) and in a sporting way, through the consciously intended use of a small caliber, sub-sonic (by request), bullet that many States, Wildlife Officials, and Sportsmen (myself included), deem inadequate and unacceptable.

Political correctness - "legality" aside, if there is no other restrictive requirement (i.e. land owner not wanting to hear the neighbor's whining or meeting the sheriff at O'dark-30 to explain), tell the neighbor to "Go **** up a rope!"

Shooting deer (a regulated resource) with an "ethically vilified" sub-standard caliber at "observable by eye" velocity - can you do it? Sure...all the time and on purpose (because it is "legal")? That practice flies in the face of ethics, give rise to the epitaph "Slob Hunter", gives us all a black eye, and gets Sportsmen all bowed up...worse than the whiney neighbor.

These sentiments are paraphrased from another thread on Castboolits:

...close enough does not win these contests. When taking the life of another creature...out of respect.

So if my response to the neighbor is your response to criticism, then OWN the epitaph.

[BJK]

Hills, yes, moose are very high CG animals. Their very long legs are there to allow them to move in deep snow. They can have trouble moving but the snow must be very deep and if it's a cow with calf the cow will stick with the calf with shorter legs. One year I had a cow and calf yarded up on my land. I almost went out to drop a few hemlock for them but didn't want to spook them and drive them into the deep snow. That year the snow was up to my chest deep. Those long legs also mean that their dark bodies are out of the beam of headlights that are properly aimed down so as not to blind on coming drivers. All that can be seen are sticklike lighter colored legs. If something strange is seen in the road ahead it's best to slow down. The first time those legs are seen you won't know what it is until you get close and can see the body silhouetted against the headlights beyond the moose. Closer and the lights are bright enough to maybe see the body. It's a massive animal.

There's a huge difference between aiming at one tiny spot on the animal and knowing, not thinking it can be done, which takes skill, and aiming at the entire animal in the hope that massive trauma will do the job. They are entirely different ways of killing deer. Yes, most times I use enough ft/lbs for the massive trauma to do the job. A whitetail exploding up out of it's bed at 15 yards is NOT a well placed shot that's required for precise placement.

I'll go out on a limb and say that in Texas this deer culling is also done at night with lights or NV. Maybe suppressors are also used. Perfectly legal for removing excess deer I'd wager. Notice that I didn't write "sport hunting". Hills, am I even close? Some places allow deer to be sport hunted with dogs, Maine doesn't but just because we don't doesn't mean it's wrong, just wrong in Maine. It means that there are different ways to hunt. Same goes for driving, not in Maine but OK elsewhere, it's not wrong, just different. And I won't beat others into submission to attempt to get others to see that "their ways are just scum and mine is so much better, so you better come over to my way of thinking.".

Different ways to hunt, different requirements, different circumstances, different strokes for different folks. Glad to see freedom and understanding is alive and well here (it is among some and not so much in others). Sheesh, if we can't understand basics like I just wrote what hope do we have against the gun banners? Get over yourselves and gain some understanding.

[perotter]

.....

Different ways to hunt, different requirements, different circumstances, different strokes for different folks. Glad to see freedom and understanding is alive and well here (it is among some and not so much in others). Sheesh, if we can't understand basics like I just wrote what hope do we have against the gun banners? Get over yourselves and gain some understanding.

Yup. But I hold little hope for that to happen. Seems there is not shortage of love for or comfort with the "Little Boxes" mindset.

Comes a point where an idea has to be given a real world test.

[brewer12345]

I am starting the process of fooling with subsonic 350 legend, another AR caliber. If I am successful, I will probably go through the hassle of getting a suppressor for my bolt gun. Even with a 180 or 200 grain bullet, subsonic means you don't have a whole lot of energy to work with. My use for such a thing is critters a whole lot smaller than deer, but I have killed multiple deer with black powder rifles where the energy numbers are not all that impressive. I get away with it because a 54 round ball makes a big hole. With something as dinky as a 223, your shots have to be precise and you have little margin for error. I am interested in the results of testing, but I do wonder: why not pick something bigger?

[Lloyd Smale]

The friction here is "political correctness" (not alerting the nosey neighbors) and in a sporting way, through the consciously intended use of a small caliber, sub-sonic (by request), bullet that many States, Wildlife Officials, and Sportsmen (myself included), deem inadequate and unacceptable.

Political correctness - "legality" aside, if there is no other restrictive requirement (i.e. land owner not wanting to hear the neighbor's whining or meeting the sheriff at O'dark-30 to explain), tell the neighbor to "Go **** up a rope!"

Shooting deer (a regulated resource) with an "ethically vilified" sub-standard caliber at "observable by eye" velocity - can you do it? Sure...all the time and on purpose (because it is "legal")? That practice flies in the face of ethics, give rise to the epitaph "Slob Hunter", gives us all a black eye, and gets Sportsmen all bowed up...worse than the whiney neighbor.

These sentiments are paraphrased from another thread on Castboolits:

So if my response to the neighbor is your response to criticism, then OWN the epitaph.

well said