Forming 577-.450

[elmacgyver0]

With common hand tools you could bore a hole through a piece of oak, stick the case through and file.
The piece of oak of course would be as thick as the length of the case.
Crude but effective.
For the love of the Lord, invest in a lathe!
Don't use it to trim cases, use it to make dies!

[fred2892]

Yes, the old Pacific style trimmer used the shell holder for the cartridge you were loading, Hornady now makes a variation of it called a Cam Lock (#050140). It will work with the Lee shell holder for the MH 577/450. There is one problem, the cutter diameter is not big enough to do the un-formed case, so all your trimming will have to be done after the case is fully formed.

As to why even bother to trim?? same reason you weigh your powder charges, uniformity and safety. jeeez

You obviously have no idea what a MH chamber looks like. It is cavernous with a 6”+ tapered leade. If you think you need to trim for safety you’ve never been anywhere near one of these. ‘Jeeez’


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[elmacgyver0]

You obviously have no idea what a MH chamber looks like. It is cavernous with a 6”+ tapered leade. If you think you need to trim for safety you’ve never been anywhere near one of these. ‘Jeeez’


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Good point!
The original cartridges were iron bases soldered to copper foil tubes, not the exacting dimensional equivalent of modern ammunition.

[elmacgyver0]

This is why you need a lathe more that that new gun you have been hankering for!
The picture is of tools I used to make cases I used in the Nepal Gahendra, basically a Martini.Attachment 261130

[SOFMatchstaff]

" If you think you need to trim for safety you’ve never been anywhere near one of these."

Its your world sport, you live in it. I prefer to err on the side of caution and utilize published specs. and not pass on suspect information. Its one thing to assist a new reloader and quite another to supply rubbish opinions. This thread is about utilizing CBC shot shell brass to make a Rifle case, which will be less than optimum in the usable strength dept , being balloon head construction which limits its safety margins. You do what you want, but dont encourage poor loading procedures to someone that may not know better.

[fred2892]

Utter bollocks, sport, next you’ll be telling us you need consistent length for crimping. Published specs for 577-450? do show me it would be most interesting. I can almost guarantee once he has successfully formed a few cases his next post will be a request for smokeless loads.
It would be most interesting to see your efforts at 577-450 why not show us? Chum.


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[elmacgyver0]

" If you think you need to trim for safety you’ve never been anywhere near one of these."

Its your world sport, you live in it. I prefer to err on the side of caution and utilize published specs. and not pass on suspect information. Its one thing to assist a new reloader and quite another to supply rubbish opinions. This thread is about utilizing CBC shot shell brass to make a Rifle case, which will be less than optimum in the usable strength dept , being balloon head construction which limits its safety margins. You do what you want, but dont encourage poor loading procedures to someone that may not know better.

Good point.
The balloon case heads always bothered me.
I have toyed around with the idea of pouring lead or maybe some zinc to fill the base.
I have not yet tried this so don't know how it would work.
Just some more things to ponder.

[SOFMatchstaff]

Elmacgyver0, that some pile of tooling, now I understand where the screen handle came from.. Neat. I thought I was bad in that dept..

[ascast]

I just did a batch last week. I cheated and grabbed a set or RCBS forming dies when they floated by at a show. Not cheap, but I don't ruin much brass either. I did wrinkle the first 3. TOO MUCH LUBE, I use Imperial sizing wax by REDDING. Anneal and run through first die. Then 2nd die. Then FULL SIZE die. Then file trim die. I actually use a LYMAN ACCURTRIM trimmer as it uses the shell holders as well. The pilots, well small selection, but they get it done. Once I went to minimum lube, I lost no cases. I trim to length at the end.

[ascast]

Oh yeah, I did nothing to the case mouth prior to sizing.

[elmacgyver0]

Elmacgyver0, that some pile of tooling, now I understand where the screen handle came from.. Neat. I thought I was bad in that dept..

My problem is I just get something to work and then move on to the next project.
Never quite refining the last project.
I just love to tinkerdink!
That is why I have not posted a lot about reloading, I don't feel I am up to the level of the reloaders here.
I posted the picture to show some crude ideas I came up with in hopes to help inspire someone else.
I can't remember what all that junk is for.
The one on the left of the tallest standing is I believe a trim gauge.
The homemade reamer thing to the far left is to thin the neck of the copper cases.
Making cases from scratch can be done but are very labor intensive.
I abandoned it in favor of 24 gauge brass shot shell cases.

[ascast]

ps again it's an ACCULINE by LYMAN trimmer

[ascast]

the old Eley and Kynock stuff and most others are BERDAN primed. That in itself is not a big deal. The fact there that there are NO imports of BERDAN primers in the US is an insurmountable issue. These guys ask 4,5,6 7 $ each for primers. just nutzo. I'm saving my stash 'till they hit $15 each, then I'm going to sell out and retire.

[.455 Webley]

In my former work i had full access to a well stocked machine shop, and understanding supervisors. Lots of training and practice making dies and gadgets for this fine hobby we share.

I will have to look at that other site for more guidance on all matters MH.

The balloon head case is on my mind with its paradox of more powder capacity with less ability to manage pressure. Finding safe balance between powder and filler will need to be devised. I welcome load data in private messages and fully understand what works for one may not work for all.

Published load data for this is too much to hope for.

Smokeless powder is nice stuff and I think if has a bright future, just not in my MH.

Thanks to all of you for your input on my issues.

[elmacgyver0]

Another idea.
Tear apart a 20 gauge shell and use the base wading to fill the balloon part.
Of course this must be done before reforming.
Or perhaps Plastic Wood filler, don't know how this would hold up, perhaps very well.
I may have to start playing with my Gahendras again.

[john.k]

In fact the CBC cases can be used full length,and IMHO ,a M/H case can be 2.6" long for a slightly better result than the 2.3" spec......The problem is with the Lee dies ,any case over 2.3" will hit a ledge in the Lee die and collapse ....even a fired ,properly formed case will collapse .......This is one reason I say to ream out the neck of the Lee die to .5",or better ,make your own two stage dies......As for thin cases ....it doesnt cause any problem in a Martini ,but it does cause a problem in the rechambered Alexander Henry NSW militia rifles ,and bases can bulge ......Any kind of base wad will get fouling trapped ,and corrode the cases.

[elmacgyver0]

I used a Lee die to make my cases and didn't have any problems, oh I screwed up a couple because of my ineptness, but my fault not the dies.
Perhaps you got a bad one, or I got a good one?

[john.k]

I dont have a Lee die ,I have a 3 piece progressive I made myself many years ago.....However ,I have noted from Lee dies Ive looked at ,they wont tolerate overlength cases.My dies simply make the neck longer ,no matter case length ......I dont disapprove busted cases ,cause my Starr .54 rf replica uses 24ga cases cut to 1-1/4" long,and busted cases are free.....,Busted cases can sometimes be used in a Snider ,needing 2" long brass.

[.455 Webley]

Yes someone with a snider will have a new best friend in me. I need to put my dies away and stop this project before I crumple all of my cases.

[redneck1]

On the .500 dia neck thing .
That might be ok for other cases , but with cbc cases and a .468 dia
Bullet the proper dia is .493 with .003 neck tension
Of course you'd adjust that with thicker brass or different size bullets .

To the semi balloon head thing , sure you have to be a bit prudent when loading them .
But they do work just fine and with said prudence they are perfectly safe and last , and last , and last .
I've got some that have been fired 20+ times

To the berdan primed kynoc cases , they can be converted to a 209 shotgun primer with a good bit of effort , if it's worth doing , well
I hear that they tend to split after a few uses so that's debatable .

I like the martini , it's rather fun to shoot .
But it sure can be a whole lot of effort to get to the point of being able to shoot them , throw in a whole lot of misinformation and it gets worse .