hot .357 magnum
mild .44 swc
I have one downed deer with each of the two calibers under discussion here (357 and 44 Magnum). Both were at close quarters with revolvers, both practically DRT. The 357'ed deer fell to a Speer 146 half-jacketed SWC/HP, and the exit hole was nearly twice the size of the entrance. The 44'ed deer was a little further out--35 yards instead of 15--the Speer 240 grain JSP/round flatnose didn't appreciably expand going out, but both holes (entrance and exit) were 1"-plus. Both bullets were sent at 1300-1350 FPS. I was taught to aim through the animal to its far-side front shoulder, and to date (50 seasons) I have yet to lose a deer.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Mild .44 swc is better
Bigger hole on both sides is always better.
If it was cast WFN 357 compared to 44 I'd pick the 357. Since its JHP I had to pick the 44
I say it depends on what one you have to work with. If you have both use what one you feel to use at the time.Beside what is stated already .
Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA
45 Colt (Ruger) with #454424 or #454490 running 1050-1100 FPS. This will be my handgun & load for the 2018 deer season--the final year that lead bullets can be used to hunt with in CA. Even varmints. Time to move, for sure.[/QUOTE]
Ditto for me in Nebraska! Hopefully the MP Group Buy for the .45 lfp will be out in time? hc18flyer
I LOVE my .357 out of a revolver or a carbine but for deer at handgun distance, heavy and fat gets it done.
Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.
I really am surprised about the results. I figured most would go for the 44, but 92% really says something. I personally would go for the 357, and I'm sure I'll get my share of arguments. I'll just come out and say I've not had the best results with hard cast with lung shots. I have a very limited experience compared to many on here, so take it with a grain of salt. One was a shoulder shot, and pretty much went down where it was shot. Another was a heart and lung shot, and ran about 50 yards. There were two, however, that ran way too far on lung shots. We found the deer, and it seems they ran about 100-150 yards, bedded down, and shortly died. That's fine in Montana, but that's often a lost deer in the eastern half of the US, plus the blood trail was weak. I think the heart shot was with a Federal 41 mag load, but the other three were a SWC 44 mag reload. This was long ago, they were probably commercial cast, and loaded by my grandpa. Anyway, there it is.
I can't tell much difference in sound between 357 mag and 44 mag, not enough to even think about. So with the 357 mag, I'd go for a 180 grain hollow point. I'd take cast, but an XTP or Nosler works well. Pushed hard, you should be able to see north of 1300 fps from a 5" barrel. I'd lay my money this will take the life out of them much faster than a 44 special with hard cast. If that SWC was cast soft enough to mushroom, then all bets are off. I'll actually be putting this to the test this year. I've got a relatively soft SWC to try in my 41 mag, and I also have a 125 grain cast hollow point to try in 327 federal. My guess is both will do just fine. Deer are not that tough to kill, it's just a matter of taking the fight out of them. If you live out west where you can watch a deer bed down, then by all means, a hard cast is for sure the most reliable bullet out there.
I have shot a 180lb Whitetail at 35yrds with a Ruger GP100 using 165gr CoreLockts. One shot was all it took breaking the near shoulder and destroying both lungs before stopping in the opposite shoulder proving to me that it could be done. I still am of the opinion that Whitetail are not tough to kill being thin skinned and come down on the bigger is better side of things. If I had both I'd take the 44Mag.
I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled
Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum
There is enough fat in the federal government that if you rendered it you could wash the world
Ronald Reagan.
44 mag ...bigger is better
I agree with your logic
.45 Colt, bigger and better
Maybe I missed it but why compare a hot loaded .357 with mild loaded .44? Is there a reason the .44 has to be loaded mild? Recoil issues?
And why compare a jacket HP to a cast solid? Is there a reason the .357 can't use cast?
I am a bit confused but the question and comparison. Is this just an intellectual exercise or are there reasons for the comparison?
All that being said and asked, I'm with the .44 crowd... bigger and heavier is generally better (never say never and never say always).
Longbow
The original-strength 45 Colt was no joke as a blackpowder caliber. With 40 grains of good BP behind it, the 255 grain bullets were designed to shoot through a cavalry mount and wound the "hostile" using that mount for cover. Velocity was on the order of 1000 FPS from the SAA 7.5" barrels.
My 45 Colt is a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk with 7.5" barrel. Its throats are trued up at .453", and I seat .454" bullets atop 10.0 grains of Unique or 10.5 grains of Herco--usually Lyman #454424. Velocities run 1000-1025 FPS, report is moderate, and recoil isn't bad. That Bisley grip is MAGIC. Yes. I have tried the "Ruger only" loadings in this revolver. I suppose everybody has to at least try them out. The loads I described here shoot better, and I can soak up 100+ of them without fatigue or discomfort.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
I would have to think it's recoil related, although I don't know why it has to be a jacketed bullet. If you shoot enough I know you can get over it, but heavy 44 mag loads are too much for me, and I start to get a death grip on the gun in short order, and eventually flinching. I can shoot magnum 357's though the same hole all day. You don't feel the recoil when your hunting, but you don't feel the flinch either.
If limited to handguns, the 44 every time! I don't know how many truckloads of deer I've killed with my 44 Contender..........But, if you include carbines, then I'd pick the .357. As a matter of fact I sold my Marlin 44 mag but kept the .357. Light, easy to shoot and carry, puts a wallop on deer with 158 XTP's or 158 RNFP's!
"We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"
unknown
I have never used a .357 on any thing-- currently do not own one--i am sure it would kill a deer and do so well as it works on folks well also--
every thing must be placed right and some times that does not exactly happen-- nerves-- animal movement ---= a rushed shot-and we may be off to the races so to speak -- so I plan for the worst and shoot for the best and for me that spells .44 or literally for me some kind of .41 cal with cast
I once shot an African bushpig (tough critters) with a full house 44 mag 245gr Keith hard cast at close range. The boolit passed under the skin over the skull and travelled down through the neck muscle, nicking a vertebrae. Total penetration? No more than 12 inches! Up until then I thought the 44 mag was a powerful cartridge. Well it is of course - for a handgun. So I'm surprised that your subsonic boolit did so well but then them African bushpigs are tough critters. This one wasn't even big but it had run off after being shot in the rear with a shotgun that had shattered both back leg bones. Even so, I was shocked at the lack of penetration. I put the 44 down and fired three AAA shots at it from shotgun. One shot just skimmed off the skin, one missed (it was thrashing - couldn't get up with both rear legs broken, not after an hour of cooling off) and the third penetrated but with no obviously fatal hits, yet it just expired.
So now I am rethinking the 44 mag thing. I would like a 44 mag in a handi rifle or something.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
I have no dog in this fight, but that's such a peculiar result I would have to think something else influenced it. Penetration of a hard cast bullet, especially the bullet designed by Elmer Kieth, it not lacking for penetration abilty by any standards. I can hardly even recover them at the range, they bury more than 12" into hard pack dirt and clay! I've never managed to catch one in water jugs, they go through more than 6. The few times I've managed to recover them has been when shooting into a snow bank sideways. Maybe the snow was fluffier that day, but I was finding bullets went 20' (not inches) in the snow. It was dumb luck I even found them. Maybe yours were not so hard after all? I can say a 44 mag will send a hard SWC straight through a deer diagonally. That's something like 36"+ of penetration. I've never hunted Africa, but I'd give the 44 mag handgun another try.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |