Highwall Questions

[grizzly]

I have an old original 1885 Highwall in 38-55. I no longer shoot it since it's over 100 yrs old. But I love these guns.

I decided I want a new one in 45-70. A local shop has a used Uberti (7 rds) for $1000. I'm also looking at a factory new Winchester for $1300.

Looking at the two, the Uberti has a nice case hardened receiver. But the Winchester has a tang peep sight. I'm certain both gus will do great, but I'm leaning towards the Japanese barreled Winchester due to great things I've heard.

I am open to any thoughts or information to help me choose one from the other.

[VA Jim]

Nothing wrong with getting a newer one, but I certainly wouldn't stop shooting the original!

[NSB]

My Win/Miroku 1885 in 45-70 will shoot honest five shot groups of 1moa with several loads off the bench. It's probably one of the nicest guns I've ever owned. I wouldn't even think twice about getting one.

[Mauser48]

I read somewhere that the uberti is actually closer to the original than the winchester/miroku. Sounds like pedersoli makes the best.

[oldred]

Not sure why folks talk about the original 1885s along with the newer true copies such as the Uburti, etc and the Miroku Winchester/Browning as if they are somehow the same rifle when they could hardly be more different!!! The Miroku Winchester is 1885 in name only and is a thoroughly modern design and an entirely different animal than the originals, it shares little more than vague resemblance externally and internally NOTHING is the same. It is a completely different action except for the floating hammer idea but even that operates somewhat different and everything else from the extractor to the sear and trigger group is totally different, gone is the beautifully simple and very easy to maintain design that Browning and Winchester created! This has been replaced with a much more modern and complicated differently designed action that functions differently and contains many more small parts that requires a much more complicated disassembly/reassembly procedure than the originals. This is not to say they are bad rifles, they are not, in fact they are fine guns that anyone should be proud to own but make no mistake, while they may be called 1885s they simply are not the same rifle by a wide margin.

[NSB]

I read somewhere that the uberti is actually closer to the original than the winchester/miroku. Sounds like pedersoli makes the best.

The first two I had were Pedersoli's. I sent them back and got the Win/Miroku.Attachment 178663

[grizzly]

Nothing wrong with getting a newer one, but I certainly wouldn't stop shooting the original!

I've only quit shooting it due to my will to preserve it more than anything. When I was younger my grandfather gave it to me. I was too young to appreciate the rifle to it's fullest other than it was a gift from him. Times changed and I started shooting it. I began researching the gun and serial number. And found out it was an original built in the late century. Eventually I decided it was best to look at as I was more afraid of modern ammo possibly damaging it. I am fascinated by the simplicity though as well as it's clock like workmanship. It's patina'd and beat up a bit. But it's neat!

I had spoke with the man selling the Uberti. He moved slightly on the price. I mentioned I was really looking at the Winchester and he had to make the comment about it being a Jap made gun. I then brought to his attention that he was holding an Italian made gun and asked him to explain the difference.

[oldred]

I then brought to his attention that he was holding an Italian made gun and asked him to explain the difference.

Again two COMPLETELY different rifles, the Uberti is a ringer for the original with only a couple of minor differences while the Winchester is a totally different design! The Winchester may be similar, but only somewhat, on the outside but inside it's not even close and does not even resemble an original (or the Italian rifles which do) at all.

[Paul_R]

Personally I think the Italians put Winchester to shame. I have both.

[oldred]

Personally I think the Italians put Winchester to shame. I have both.

The new Winchesters are fantastic rifles for sure but really comparing the Italian version to the Jap rifle is a classic case of "Apples and Oranges". But only due to the differences, the Italian 1885s are great rifles that stay true to the original design and take a second place to no one!

[samari46]

What is it that causes you concern about your original 1885 winchester?. You should check out the assra.com web site and shooters there have no concerns shooting the original ones. I have a low wall that was made around 1895 in 32-20 and love shooting it. Frank

[M-Tecs]

Original Highwall actions were commonly used for pressure test guns until recently. I have a 1906 and a 1908 or 09 that see a lot of use.

[oldred]

For sure they are a VERY strong action, even the early ones made from the steels of the day can handle surprisingly high pressures. Unless there is a specific concern I wouldn't be a bit worried about shooting one of the old ones, I certainly wouldn't hotrod it but even if you did it would take a lot of abuse to cause of problems.

Probably one of the most common issues that concerns owners of older well used guns is a sloppy breach block lock-up but this is usually easily repaired. Disassembling and inspecting the lever to block link and pins usually exposes worn pins and the pin holes in the link, new pins and the link itself (very easy to make if a person can't find one) will normally tighten things up nicely. If that doesn't fix the problem then the solution is to make a new link a few thousandths longer with the holes spaced proportionally farther apart. The only power tool needed is an electric drill or even better a small drill press, but really the press is not necessary, these things are so easy to make that trial-and-error can be used to determine the proper amount of extra length. This is not a "shade tree" fix and is commonly done to correct the most common cause of looseness in these older actions.

[marlinman93]

If you read the pressure experiments that Buhmiller did on the 1885 action, you'd never worry about harming your original again! Buhmiller installed a .30-06 barrel on an original 1885 and then attempted to figure out where the limits were to blow up the action! He and a friend put the gun through extreme loads, splitting cases, and separating heads on cartridges, but couldn't blow the action. They finally tapped the end of the barrel and screwed in a pipe plug to blow the action! After firing, the barrel blew up, and the action was sprung where it was useless for further testing; but it didn't blow apart!
Even the old actions are stronger than most people's loads will ever hurt. I have a friend who has one barreled iin .300 Win. Mag., and has had it as his elk rifle for decades. When he first showed it to me I was shocked, and told him it wouldn't be my choice for the 1885 High Wall! But time has proven it to be strong, and it still shows perfect headspace after 3 or 4 decades with that barrel and caliber.

[Don McDowell]

Don't shy away from the new made Winchesters, they are capable of match winning accuracy as they come out of the box. Something not necessarily so with the Uberti's.
Another option, but it will cost a bit more money are the 1885's from C Sharps arms.
As long as your original isn't in a deteriorated state, keep with the saami spec pressure loads if shooting smokeless, or straight black it should serve you well.

[oldred]

No one is suggesting shying away from the newer Winchesters because they are different, I was just pointing out that they are indeed different and very different at that! If a person wants a truly original style rifle that is like those of the era then the new Winchesters/Brownings simply don't do that like the Italian made rifles or others such as the USA made CSharps do. Its a fact that except for that somewhat similar outward appearance of the newer versions and the floating hammer concept there is very little else that even comes close to being true to the original 1885s as Winchester sold them for so many years and even that hammer is totally redesigned. Of course that makes little difference since NOTHING else is the same, extractor design is radically different and operates in a different way utilizing many more parts than the originals none of which even resemble the original design. Ditto for the entire trigger group, sear, all the springs, etc, plus they interact with each other utilizing a different design principle. Even the breech block is radically different as is the firing pin design, in short nothing is the same. However this not intended to slight the newer design and I have been saying all along the newer Jap made rifles are fine guns and quite capable but as for being a true 1885 they are very different and a completely new and thoroughly modern rifle that bears a passing resemblance to the originals and shares the model number/name but little if anything else.

[Don McDowell]

1956 Ford 150 isn't anything like a 2016 F150, but Ford still owns the name, Winchester still owns the 1885...

[oldred]

1956 Ford 150 isn't anything like a 2016 F150, but Ford still owns the name, Winchester still owns the 1885...

And you think maybe they too are the same??????? If you were looking to buy an F150 would you discuss a 1956 and a 2016 as if they are the same truck???? That is exactly my point, they have the same name but they couldn't be much more different! Would you buy a 2016 F150 to show at a classic auto meet? No? Why not, it has the same name! That's the catch, often these discussions are about the classic BP era rifle with references to John Browning's design but then this thoroughly modern rifle that bears only a passing resemblance to the classic is discussed as if it is somehow the same rifle when clearly it is as different as that 1950 F150 vs the 2016 model! Often there is discussion as to the differences in quality, price, etc but no mention what-so-ever that it is an entirely different design even though a lot of folks who are just getting involved with these classic singleshot rifles simply don't know this and why should they if they aren't yet familiar with them? Any way you cut it they are simply two completely different rifles and while several different makers build rifles that are true to the classics in both appearance and function Winchester has chosen to hang the classic name on a totally different and very modern design. The new one is a fine rifle in just about every way but it is a whole different animal than the classic original, comparing the two designs as if they are the same and ignoring these major differences can be very misleading to those who are not yet familiar with them!

[dlbarr]

I recently was thinking about a high wall in 4570 also. I have been someone who buys guns on a budget so my handi rifle & marlin 1895 have filled the bill and are great shooters. But then....I'd like once to buy a really really nice rifle. So I looked at the Ballard rifle company site. They list no prices and you have to call them to find out what they want. Haven't done that yet but I am sure taken with the pictures they show.

Hope you get what you're really looking for , griz.

[Don McDowell]

Ballard is gone. Altho there are some pretty good Cody ballads come up from time to time.