Critical details for an accurate Mini 14?

[Ragnarok]

I've owned a couple of Ruger's Mini 14 rifles...the first was a Ranch rifle from the 1990's..and it was a reliable plinker blessed with poor accuracy. Bad enough that it was pointless to scope the thing. From a cold barrel..you could get a shot or two on target then the shots just wandered around. The more you shot the worse it got. Let it cool down...and maybe..just maybe it would be good for another shot or two on target. Maybe not. It was pretty pathetic at 100yds.

So I peddled that Ruger and bought a HBAR AR15..it shoots fine.

A couple years ago...a friend talked me into a group buy on police trade Mini 14 rifles. I pondered the deal..and kicked my order in for what I thought would be a police trade Mini 14 GB stainless. Well....must not have got all the info...or assumed too much..because we received regular old stainless steel Mini 14 rifles..not GB Mini's.

I received a clean old Mini...all wood furniture..handguard and all..182 series. Probably a decade and a half older than my previous Ranch series Mini. I didn't shoot it for probably a year after I got it because I really figured it's accuracy would stink.

Well?..When I did shoot the LEO trade Mini..it's accuracy was fine. I mean it wasn't a heavy barrel varmiteer or anything like that...and burn two 30 round mags downrange and groups opened up somewhat....but overall...this older stainless Mini shoots much much better than the newer Ranch Mini I had owned. This one shoots like a guy would expect a fairly pricy gun to shoot(as in..you can hit things you aim at).

I've talked to other knowlegable shooters about it...and several have reported owning Mini 14 rifles that shot just fine.

So just what 'vital to accuracy' manufacturing details was Ruger not able to put into every Mini 14 rifle?

[Jailer]

Not sure what is "vital" on any mini 14 but in my experience it's **** shoot. You can have a beat up looking thing that shoot great and one that looks like a museum piece that you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with. We've got some that shoot great. Others, not so much.

If you want an accurate mini 14, get a new 580 series or newer with the re profiled barrel. They shoot real nice especially compared to the older ones. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a new one.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a stainless one in 1982, beaut little rifle, reasonably accurate, but I found the best way to make it more accurate, was to get closer, HaHa!

Used them at work for 18+ years and they took them away because the Dept's armourer was a dill (who had el Supremo's absolute confidence unfortunately, he wasn't a bad guy, just got an idea in his head about a gun or cartridge and no amount of facts would shift him). He convinced the Dept boss that we would be better off with 40S&W Ruger. Wrong! The round was running out of steam before it reached the areas in the prisons where the crooks were! Dumb, dumb, dumb. Nice Police rifle for an urban environment, but way off beam for us.

That carbeen is no longer produced by Ruger and the Dept has gone back to mini 14s apparently. Not that it affects me, long since pulled the pin. Good to see the bobbies (what we call the troops in the prisons in Australia, there used to be a lot of English guys working in the system after the war and into the 60s and early 70s) with a good bit of equipment.

The AR would be a better rifle, but too many slow ships in teh convoy. A Mini 14 can be leant in the corner, knocked over and /or dropped a squillion times until the foresight has been worn down scraping against the wall and it will still run like clockwork. I wouldn't give one to a soldier in a battlezone, but perfect for some of the zombies and fools working in towers. Most of the guys and girls are switched on and responsible, professional operators, but there are a small percentage who make you think 'how did they get through the selection process?????

[Mk42gunner]

No idea of how the new series shoots, but it couldn't be worse than the ones from the 1980's or 90's.

I had two blued ones, a standard Mini-14 that would do about 4" at fifty yards. One time I shot a varmint at my dad's house, with American made commercial, non corrosive ammo; only one shot, so I didn't clean the gun. I went to shoot it about three days later and the piston had corroded to the operating rod so bad I had to use a mallet to open the chamber. That gun got sold quickly.

The next one was a Ranch rifle that didn't shoot appreciably better. It got traded within a few months for something else.

It stands to reason that a few of them would be useably accurate, but I haven't seen one yet. It is a shame, one would make a pretty good bedside gun for rural dwellers if you could be certain of hitting what you shoot at.

Robert

[Ragnarok]

A fellow shooter(and boolit caster) told me he had owned a stainless mini of similiar vintage to mine...his mini being a good shooter too.

My ex-boss had a blued mini I had personaly shot back in the 1980's...it too was pretty decent accuracy-wise.

Others too report occasionaly of owning decent shooting mini 14 rifles.

I wonder if by qirk of fate..sometimes Ruger pumped out a good shooter....

Or sometimes you hear rumors Ruger wore out the barrel-making tooling(maybe explaing why quite a few mini's stink for accuracy)..That I don't beleive.

I personaly wonder if maybe Ruger made sure LEO contract guns met a accuracy standard.

Don't know for sure? My best guess from a technical veiwpoint is that the bone stock older mini could've been made to shoot ok(you see some that do)..but that Ruger really didn't put the effort into assuring any real standard of accuracy from the product. It was probably selling well without the effort..and/or they just didn't really care!

I would imagine that if Ruger had interested the military in any quanity of mini 14 rifles...then suddenly any accuracy issues would've been addressed pronto..well before 2005 when the newer heavier barreled series came out.

[45 2.1]

The original 180 series (the one it was introduced in with the thinner forend) were excellent shooters (something on the order of MOA with good handloads). When the thicker forearm series (181 and above) came out, the accuracy was poorer, and the first ranch rifles were about the same). Somewhere in the past I remember reading several articles (on the internet) about refitting the gas block. They said it was most of the problem......... something to do with the GB being clamped tightly and unevenly along with the slide banging the back of it. Once refitted the articles claimed much better accuracy.

[Lloyd Smale]

never had much luck with accuracy with them. I had two mini 14s and a mini 30 and ended up peddling them all off on ars. If i could find an old all wood stock one like you did i would consider it though. Buddy has one and its just cool looking.

[Ragnarok]

I figure my stainless mini shoots ok because the gas block is set-up properly..and the op-rod touches it properly...and because the stock's forearm hooks into the gas block with proper fit..but has some gap up at the front end between the end of the stock and the gas block(so it doesn't push against the block warping the barrel).

Maybe the stainless helps...maybe not.

This particular Mini 14 buttstock has pretty crappy fitting inletting for the action and triggerguard! The action clamps up tight...but with the trigger assembly removed..the action can slide side to side about an 1/8" or so! Stick(force) the trigger-group into place..and it wedges the action against one side of the stock however the triggerguard itself is wedged against the other side of the stock!!....Almost like the top inletting for the barreled action isn't quite lined up with the trigger group inletting.....hard to describe but doesn't look like it would be a prefered stock-fit for accuracy...About all I can see that the action inletting adds to my mini's accuracy is a tight fit!

[Jailer]

I personaly wonder if maybe Ruger made sure LEO contract guns met a accuracy standard.

4 inches at 100 yards. If it shoots outside that then they replace the barrel.

The original 180 series (the one it was introduced in with the thinner forend) were excellent shooters (something on the order of MOA with good handloads). When the thicker forearm series (181 and above) came out, the accuracy was poorer, and the first ranch rifles were about the same). Somewhere in the past I remember reading several articles (on the internet) about refitting the gas block. They said it was most of the problem......... something to do with the GB being clamped tightly and unevenly along with the slide banging the back of it. Once refitted the articles claimed much better accuracy.

Gas block fit has a lot to do with the accuracy of the rifle as long as it's a reletively decent shooter to begin with.

[JeffinNZ]

If you want an accurate Mini 14 buy the new Target model with the thumbhole stock. They are very good. You'll spend the same amount of money making your sow's ear into something that might be a silk purse.

[Uncle R.]

I've always thought the mini was a nice looking little rifle. I owned a mini-30 and shot a lot of mini-14s and knew a lot of people who owned 'em. Some of those people tuned and modified their minis and tried to get 'em to shoot with results that ranged from poor to dismal. I have never personally known of one that was very accurate - but some say it has happened.
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I've owned a few and known of a lot more and it's been my experience that Ruger rifles of all types are far too likely to give unsatisfactory accuracy. One or two specimens could be happenstance but after many years and many examples of poor shooting Rugers I have to believe that they knew and didn't care.
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It's probably just a good business decision - after all there are ten times more Bubbas out there than real riflemen. If it looks nice, goes bang when you pull the trigger and keeps 'em mostly on a beer can at 100 yards that's good enough for Bubba. Heck - that's all Bubba can use anyway.
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As for me - I agree with the Colonel. Only accurate rifles are interesting. I ain't much interested in Ruger rifles any more, and I seriously ain't interested in the mini-14 or mini-30.
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Uncle R.

[W.R.Buchanan]

To answer your question: The most critical item is to tone down the gas system so the gun doesn't eject spent shells 40 feet!

This can be done several ways. On mine I got an Accuracy Systems adjustable gas piston. I had to drill a hole in my gas block for the adustment screw. Put it in, closed the screw, and opened it one turn.

Now the gun poops spent shells out 3 feet to the right.

Why does this affect accuracy?

With the gas system wide open everytime you fire the gun the operating rod which has a large piece of steel on it, hits the front of the receiver so hard that it repositions the action in the stock!

Obvously this affects accuracy negatively.

All accuracy tips for Garands apply to minis as well. Main one being the action must have tension on it in the stock just like a Garand does..

Mine consistantly shoots just about anything inside of 1.5" at 100 yds. I shoot alot of 55 gr Wolf ammo and an assortment of 55 gr brass cased ammo mostly Remington. It is an easy gun to shoot and operate.

ONLY USE RUGER BRAND MAGAZINES !!!!! Do not question this,,, just do it!

As far as reloads I have not shot any yet but I have about 1300 cases of various brands and they will be loaded with Midway 55 gr bullets, and /or some other recycled 55 or 62 gr bullets .

You only need one load for this gun, and once you've settled on it, and it functions fine, just shoot the hell out of it. Once the gun has 500 or so rounds thru it it should be settled in and just keep plugging along.

At least mine does. I would also recommend getting a newer one. Mine was made in 05.

If you don't choke the gas system down it just beats the gun to death.

I don't understand why Ruger does this?

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

ONLY USE RUGER BRAND MAGAZINES !!!!! Do not question this,,, just do it!

I have to back this one up, at one stage, we went through every armoury in every prison and every tower, collecting non Ruger mags and issuing new magazines. Problem solved!

[303Guy]

I bedded mine and used particular bullets and powder and it shot under 1½ MOA all day. It ejected too violently which damaged the scope finish and occasionally jammed a case in the ejection port against the scope mount. I changed the gas port 'grommet' to a smaller holed one and that solved that problem. It was a great little rifle, very reliable and fairy accurate to within minute of beer can at 200 meters. Most of my targets required better than that but out to 150m anything I aimed at was in big trouble. I should have kept that rifle! I think it was the original series. My buddy had one and it too was pretty accurate. Hopeless with factory ammo (by hopeless I mean 3 MOA).

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes 303 guy changing the orifice is another way to choke the gas system down The same outfit www.accuracysystems.com has a kit of three different ones you can buy for @$15.

They also sell barrels and complete rifle redos as well as a variety of accessories, sights etc.

My fixed gas piston was $35 and I chose that method because of the instant adjustability.

I also installed a bumper pad on the front of the receiver so when the op rod hits it, it is cushioned.

My gun is an aboslute joy to shoot in a rifle class type environment where you are going to shoot 2-500 rounds in a few days. It is much easier to operate than an AR, and all of the clearing drills and administraitve functions are also much easier to execute. Also it doesn't need to be cleaned very often. IN fact I haven't cleaned mine at all. It has never malfunctioned since I threw the "non Ruger mags" away the day after I found out they were Ship.

I think 500 rounds with no malfunctions is a decent record. The guns operating system is a much more reliable platform than the AR system for several reasons, 1. It is the Garand system which is battle proven reliable in dirt, and 2. it is a piston driven system, something that has only come into vogue in the AR platform recently. 3. it is made from steel, which no matter how you cut it, is just stronger and more durable than aluminum.

I know many will argue these points but really there is no arguement as it is all just the way things are. The only consistant complaint I hear about Mini's is the accuracy issues. If this point was mute, then the scales would tip immediately to the Mini14.

Bill Ruger was told buy the then Sec of Defense McNamara?, that if the Mini 14 would have been ready 2 years earlier there would have been no AR-15.

Can you imagine what these guns would have been like with the 40 years of intense battle driven development that the AR/M16 has gotten?

There would be pages and pages of Mini14 parts in everybodies catalogs and only a few things for AR's

I think all the negaitve comments you hear about the Mini 14 would then read differently,,, more like " that damn AR 15,,,,, blah, blah ,blah.."

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

All of the above blurb not withstanding, everybody needs to know how to run an AR. You are more likely to find one of those laying around in SHTF situation than a Mini14.

I shot one this last weekend in a club three gun shoot and it was someone elses gun.

I got second place with 9 hits on the dueling tree at 65 yards in 7.02 seconds! The owner of the gun got first place with 9 hits in 5.48 sec. Nobody else even broke 15 seconds or hit every target!.

I have shot less than 100 rounds thru an AR in my life, and that counts the 60 rounds shot in qualifying in the AF in 1969.

Still,,, when in those classes I participate in, I pay attention to what is being said about all of the different systems,,, cuz you never know.

It paid off last Sunday.

Randy

[Silver Hand]

Enjoyed this old thread!
Having purchased a new 182 SS series Mini 14 back when SS was the newest material in firearms. $210.90 dealer cost back then and if you could get your hands on one retail was $650.00.
This little truck gun never having a factory round through it has always fired and placed a 55gr, Hornedy - sx or sp using 25.6 grains of imr4895 inside of two inches or so [not much out from that] between 50 and 75 yards, the best my young eyes could see back then. I keep reading about accuracy problems but never really expected a tack driver even then given I had no intentions to ever put a scope on it. My old Stainless 182 always shot I thought as good as I could see.
It was quite interesting recently reading so many people are having problems with so many of those old guns. I don't heat mine up to do the things I do.
So there is something to there being at least a few around that will shoot fair considering the open sights.
Silver Hand

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am constantly involved with my Mini 14 as I blather on the Perfect Union site which is the goto place for Mini talk.

My gun is a 580 series 2005 made. The 582's seem to have had some problems, but the 583's and now 584's are the best Ruger has ever made.

Recently if you watch the BS on TV about San Bernardino you would have seen that all the cops had Minis strapped on them. No AR's as that agency ahs gotten rid of all their Ex mil surplus M16's in favor of non Black Gun Looking Mini's. Political Correctness being a consideration in CA, but the fact they are giving up no firepower whatsoever is partly a consideration as well. Cops don't need Full Auto Weapons,,, usually.

They also just purchased another 100 guns from Ruger at the SHOT Show a few weeks ago. Many other Police agencies are going this route as well.

I see a long future for this platform as it has many benefits and few negatives.

It kind of Funny as right now the CMP has released a bunch of M1 Carbines which everyone is fighting over. The only problem with these guns is the cartridge they were ALL made in. The Mini14 was designed specifically as a replacement for the M1 Carbine in a better cartridge and in fact now in several better cartridges. .223, 7.62x39, 6.8SPC, and now .300 BLK.

I sold my M1 Carbine in 1978 and whereas it could be a useful firearm for shooting small people, I never really found a use for it. The Mini on the other hand I have many uses for. And as far as a Battle Rifle? If you ran out of ammo the Mini would make a lot better club than an AR any day. Mine weighs 8 lbs 6oz!

Randy

[sghart3578]

This thread brings up a bad memory for me and an experience with Ruger that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm not an operator and I don't claim to be. I don't plan on SHTF scenarios, necessarily, but I have always wanted a nice, accurate semi-auto in 223/5.56.

In 1995 I bought a brand new Ruger Mini 14. This was a year or so after I bought my Ruger Vaquero, one of the first ones. I loved that gun. Still do. So the idea of a Ruger built M14 clone that I could afford to buy and also afford to shoot was irresistible.

To sum up, that rifle shot like ****. I am not a marksman but I can usually hit a paper plate at 50 yards without too much trouble, except with that g****dam mini 14. I didn't reload for 223 back then so all I shot were factory rounds.

The cold barrel zero was never consistent and as the barrel heated up it was anybody's guess where the round would land. It was like closing your eyes and throwing darts at the dart board.

I would put the mini 14 down and pick up my SKS from the Tula armory, circa 1953? and put all ten in a 2" circle at the same distance, from the first shot to the tenth shot, stripper clip after stripper clip. With cheap Chicom ammo!

It embarrassed me no end. In 2002 I sold that gun to an aquaintance with full disclosures and he is still mad at me.

In the prevailing 20 odd years I have owned ten or so Rugers from revolvers to semi-auto pistols to bolt action rifles to 10-22's. Only about half of those were acceptably accurate. It beats me why anyone still buys any Ruger products at all. They generally suck.

They work, they function, they don't tend to break. But they suck none the less.


P.S. To satisfy my craving for an accurate semi auto 223 I recently built an AR15 kit rifle with parts from Palmetto State Armory. That gun kicks *** and shoots circles around that mini 14. I don't know why I waited so long to get one.

[W.R.Buchanan]

sghart: I hear your frustration. Early Mini 14's were an odd lot, and a goodly number of them were total garbage.

The newest ones however are pretty good guns. Also Mini 30's are a good bet if you shoot 7.62x39 ammo.

The thing about Mini 14's is that you have to accept the fact that they are not "One Hole Guns." However they do shoot and are reliable as long as you feed them with Ruger Mags. Accuracy varies with the type of ammo you shoot in them. I have shot a lot of both and stuff like Wolf and Tula are 3"+ at 100 yards, but Federal American Eagle is well under 2". My reloads are under 2" as well, and sometimes better.

Either type of ammo is more than accurate enough at 300 yards to do the job intended for this rifle, and with that in mind the guns do perform well.

No they are not tack drivers, but they are effective.

You done good on that Palmetto gun. I have been looking at their Rifle kits to complete a Lower I have had for some years now. They make good and relatively inexpensive AR's.

I have found that very few people can actually realize the benefits of or supposed quality of an expensive AR. They just don't shoot enough to get what they paid for.

Randy