In need of a 9mm mold for coated boolits

[Angus]

I think I'm going all in on powder coating. I'm going to be buying a HP mold from NOE next week and am up in the air with which one to buy. They have a 135 with no grooves made for HiTek coating and the SC357-135-RF in RG4 PB blocks. Does one look any better than the other? Do boolits without grooves do any better or worse than traditional? I'll be shooting them out of an SR-9 for the foreseeable future but who knows what could show up down the road.

[rsrocket1]

Since you are PC'ing there is no need for lube grooves. You also get the advantage of seating the bullet to whatever length you wish without putting the rim right in the middle of a lube groove gap. More bearing surface, better grip of the rifling on the bullet. More pluses than minuses.

[Amiaji]

I have been debating the same thing. The only advantage I can see to buying a mold with lube grooves is if in the future we can't PC bullets for some reason. Without electricity I can still melt lead and cast bullets. Are the advantages of not having lube grooves really enough to offset the lack of options?

[noisewaterphd]

I prefer lube grooves, but I powder coat, epoxy coat, lube size, and tumble lube depending on my mood.

But, even if I knew that I was only ever going to powder coat for the rest of my life, I would still probably go with the lube groove.

Usually a grooveless design ends up with a shorter bearing surface in order to maintain the same weights as grooved bullets. If it doesn't end up with a shorter bearing surface, that means they monkeyed with the nose and/or ogive, thereby potentially changing the performance of a known bullet design.

That said, if anyone can make a decent groovless design it would be NOE.

[donhuff]

Angus,

I have that mold in the solid point version. It is very easy to use because without the grooves, the boolits fly out of the mold. It is the fastest castin mold I own. No need for added tin either as fill out is easy without all the grooves and corners. Any old lead will make good looking boolits.

I cast a couple thousand of them this week. I got a dillon 550 for Christmas and need a lot of lead to make use of it in 9mm.

[fredj338]

I like options & really do not like unitasker tools if I can help it. So I would go with a lube groove bullet. There is no downside when coating & you have an option of using a bullet lube if needed or desired. Less bearing surface also means less pressures, so again, no downside. Once you achieve stability, add'l bearing length offer little advantage.

[flysubcompact]

I'm not an old salt like most of these guys, but I have started PCing with a Harbor Freight PC rig. The only two molds I have for my 9mm are Lee's. One is the 566-125-2R (round nose, flat base) and the other is the TL-356-124-TC (truncated cone, chamfered base). I like the latter the most for my PC coating. The method I made up coats the nose and bases in two cookings so that the sides get a double coat. The flat based, RN tend to end up with a bit of plastic flash on the bases after sizing. This is not a problem with the chamfered base truncated cone ones. The flashy based ones really don't cause much trouble, but it looks bad.

BTW, I love that HF thing. I've done about a thousand 9mm's with that thing and it has literally amazed me how little of an amount of powder it had taken to nicely coat that thousand and they looks super as compared to my shake and bake experiments.

[noisewaterphd]

I like options & really do not like unitasker tools if I can help it. So I would go with a lube groove bullet. There is no downside when coating & you have an option of using a bullet lube if needed or desired. Less bearing surface also means less pressures, so again, no downside. Once you achieve stability, add'l bearing length offer little advantage.

Longer bearing surface, not more bearing surface. Pressures will be roughly the same, but grooveless will have a shorter bearing surface, not less bearing surface.

Many rifle bullet designs will add grooves to lengthen the bearing surface without increasing weight/pressures.

Having said that, grooveless should have a higher BC. But only just.

[bangerjim]

After years of casting grooved and NLG PC'd boolits, I honestly can see absolutely ZERO difference in performance and accuracy. I have at least 4 NLG molds for various cals and they shoot exactly the same as the standard grooved boolits.

Now..........TL micro-grooved boolits really suck. I have terrible accuracy with several of those Lee things! You would think they would be close to NLG, but I have not found that. Time to get rid of those 6 banger molds!

bangerjim

[mongoose33]

Here are two options:



The first two are the same boolit--they're the 135 gr NOE mold designed for hi-tek coatings: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...roducts_id=780 I was interested in a hollow point, and since I was PC'ing, a grooveless design, I felt, made more sense.

It also allows me to coat them nose down; I use this kind of setup to PC them, in which it's much easier to keep them on the screws than it is to keep them in place base-down:



The second is an Accurate mold: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=35-125E-D.png

I've shot them side-by-side trying to determine which is more accurate, and I cannot tell the difference. Here's a consideration for you, though: the second mold can always be PC'd *or* it can be lubed conventionally. The first mold can only be shot w/ a coating on it. The lube groove on the second one isn't exposed when loaded to a typical OAL, so it probably wins out.

[noisewaterphd]

Here are two options:



The first two are the same boolit--they're the 135 gr NOE mold designed for hi-tek coatings: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...roducts_id=780 I was interested in a hollow point, and since I was PC'ing, a grooveless design, I felt, made more sense.

It also allows me to coat them nose down; I use this kind of setup to PC them, in which it's much easier to keep them on the screws than it is to keep them in place base-down:



The second is an Accurate mold: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=35-125E-D.png

I've shot them side-by-side trying to determine which is more accurate, and I cannot tell the difference. Here's a consideration for you, though: the second mold can always be PC'd *or* it can be lubed conventionally. The first mold can only be shot w/ a coating on it. The lube groove on the second one isn't exposed when loaded to a typical OAL, so it probably wins out.

Where did you find the copper color on the far right?

[Gremlin460]

Since you are PC'ing there is no need for lube grooves. You also get the advantage of seating the bullet to whatever length you wish without putting the rim right in the middle of a lube groove gap. More bearing surface, better grip of the rifling on the bullet. More pluses than minuses.

Just to add to this list, grooveless molds drop the casts much, much easier I have a MP mold with pins , and had it machined grooveless , snaping the handles open quickly drops the casts with no need to pound on the handle bolt.
I bought a CBE mold in a different style , it also is grooveless, I ordered it that way, again 99% of the time the casts drop with no kinetic application required.

[KenH]

Yea, where did you get the copper color PC? Looks good - I thought they were jackets at first glance.

Ken H>

[NYBushBro]

Yea, where did you get the copper color PC? Looks good - I thought they were jackets at first glance.

Ken H>

+1....

[kbstenberg]

Food for thought On the groove less bullet (GLB). If the bullet is swaged in the barrel. I am thinking that the lead would have to travel a further distance with the GLB. Which mite distort the bullet in ways that are determental to bullet flight.
An like Fred J a grooved bullet gives you more options. If push comes to shove.