Apparently this is what happens when...

[outdoorfan]

Sounds like a great caliber conversion choice for the 30-30 case. I have two 38-55 Marlins. Marlins are a little heaver than the Winy 94, but 38-55 max loads in the Marlins are not much fun either. I have a TC Contender 14" barrel with a 2" extension in 357 Max so I can shoot it as a rifle but would sure like to have a 92 or a94 in 357 max.

Thanks for commenting.

One thing I did notice (as it applies to felt recoil) is that, in this application, powders like Varget, RL-15, BLC-2, Leverevolution, and 4895 really increase the felt recoil without giving much advantage to velocity. Benchmark, which is what I settled on, is a little faster burning, produces more velocity with less powder than the others. I suppose 3031 probably falls into this group, as well.

I noticed the same thing between 4831 and 4350 when it came to the larger cases. 4350 got me better velocity with less felt recoil.

[303Guy]

The 30-30 case is rimmed, therefore headspaces that way. At least, that's my understanding.

Quite so but being able to head-space on a shoulder means case life will be greatly increased as there will be no headspace clearance (there has to be a clearance on the rim for reliable chambering).

[jhalcott]

I shot thru a silliwet pig target with a factory .17remington. The club was trying to see what caliber/s could do this. Several winchester and Weatherby mags did crater the metal but none went thru. It was hanging at a hundred yards. A couple of larger calibers did spin it off the stand.

[Hickok]

I shot thru a silliwet pig target with a factory .17remington. The club was trying to see what caliber/s could do this. Several winchester and Weatherby mags did crater the metal but none went thru. It was hanging at a hundred yards. A couple of larger calibers did spin it off the stand.

.220 Swift and 22/250 Remington burn through steel too. I would think the .204 cartridge would work also.

[outdoorfan]

Quite so but being able to head-space on a shoulder means case life will be greatly increased as there will be no headspace clearance (there has to be a clearance on the rim for reliable chambering).

My observation is that this hasn't been a problem.

[303Guy]

My observation is that this hasn't been a problem.

All the more reason why I should want one! I think it would be just dandy on a Lee Enfield action. Mind you, I'm thinking it's just dandy as a lever gun cartridge! It would be great for a break action too.

I found some load data on the 35-30 or 35/30-30 (35-30 would the 'technically correct' name for it). It's been around since the beginning of last century but never made it as a commercial cartridge. Not a cat sneeze cartridge! I don't understand why not.

[Buck Neck It]

I am surprised that you have no feeding issues? Your bullet is almost as blunt as a wadcutter.

[outdoorfan]

Yeah, no kidding. That 360230 has a .28 meplat with sharp edges on the nose. But it runs like clockwork through the Win 94. AOL is an issue, though. I have it at 2.5". Any much shorter than that and it wants to hang up.

303Guy, when I stumbled into the concept of the 35-30 I just about did a back flip. Not a whole lot is going to stop a 230 grain chunk of lead at 2000 fps. Unless ranges are exceeding 200 yards or so, this cartridge more or less takes the cake for me. In a fast handling lever gun with peep sights, it sure is fun & effective.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The 30-30 case is rimmed, therefore headspaces that way. At least, that's my understanding.

I agree that the longer neck of the 30-30 and brass availability make it about ideal for cast when converted to 35 caliber. I am really enjoying this one!

Yes, it should headspace on the rim, and it would probably be best if the chamber and dies make sure the shoulder doesn't make contact. There is always likely to be some variation in springiness of the brass, expansion of a hot barrel etc., and it would be harmful to accuracy if one round makes contact at the shoulder and the next doesn't.

[outdoorfan]

Yes, it should headspace on the rim, and it would probably be best if the chamber and dies make sure the shoulder doesn't make contact. There is always likely to be some variation in springiness of the brass, expansion of a hot barrel etc., and it would be harmful to accuracy if one round makes contact at the shoulder and the next doesn't.

Thanks for the explanation. I have noticed that on the first firing, even though the brass was resized in a 35-30 die, upon chambering the round it does tend to want to be a little sticky and need that final nudge at the end of the working of the lever. It seems that after the first firing that kind of goes away. I'm still trying to figure that out. Could have something to do with the mixed brass I've been using, also. Seating depth probably isn't a factor, as I have it set up to sort of kiss the lands, but not quite.

I do have as many as 10-12 firings on Remington cases, and I haven't had one fail yet in any way.

[JSnover]

Weld your nuts behind the target surface and then all you have to do is patch the chain.

This, plus run the chain through a piece of loose-fitting pipe.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thanks for the explanation. I have noticed that on the first firing, even though the brass was resized in a 35-30 die, upon chambering the round it does tend to want to be a little sticky and need that final nudge at the end of the working of the lever. It seems that after the first firing that kind of goes away. I'm still trying to figure that out. Could have something to do with the mixed brass I've been using, also. Seating depth probably isn't a factor, as I have it set up to sort of kiss the lands, but not quite.

I do have as many as 10-12 firings on Remington cases, and I haven't had one fail yet in any way.

This sounds like a pretty healthy situation, with minimal working of the brass. I don't see why the shoulder position should be any different on a full-length sizing of new and fired brass, though. It might be that stamping of the headspace or something has left minute burrs on the case head, and it is the rim recess in the chamber that causes this final tightness on the lever. The pressure of firing completes the process of flattening out those burrs.

Again, that would be totally harmless. If you do feel the need to move the sized-case shoulder slightly back, you can do it very easily by removing a few thousandths either from the bottom of the sizing die or from the top of the shellholder, with a diamond hone or piecde of abrasive paper glued or double-sided-taped to something flat. The shellholder is the cheap and easily replaced one.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Quite so but being able to head-space on a shoulder means case life will be greatly increased as there will be no headspace clearance (there has to be a clearance on the rim for reliable chambering).

Assuming that there is a rim (and doing without one on the 94 action presents various problems), the situation there remains unchanged. Benchresters (who are able to do without the clearance a hunter or ordinary target shot needs) choose only one method of achieving correct headspace, and almost invariably, for them, it is the shoulder. Having both is OK, but one has to reliably prevent the other from making contact.

[FN in MT]

Suggestion to you guys hanging steel with CHAINS...Find some conveyor belt material. Cut with a razor knife 3" or 4" wide. Buy a hole punch, 9/16", 5/8" work fine. Punch a few holes in your belting. Hang steel with belting by looping over cross piece, or bolt to hanger, whatever. ....Can take MANY off target hits before crapping out. A lot less BS than chains.

[outdoorfan]

Ballistics in Scotland, thanks for the technical expanation and ideas. And thanks to the rest for the chain ideas.

[Geezer in NH]

One of the original wildcats. I was looking for 35 Remington ballistics in a lever gun platform, but I didn't want to have to deal with the scarcity of brass. So, I had my 30-30 rebored by JES for $225. I anneal, then resize the brass in a special die from CH4D. There is still a shoulder there, but not much.

35/30-30 could also be 35/32, but it seems the 30-30 brass and rifle platform is where the conversion usually originates the most often.

Recoil can be stout on the Win 94 platform (20" barrel). I put a pachmyr pad on mine 'cause the steel butt plate was brutal. Even with the decelerator pad, when I shoot it prone for 30+ shots, my shoulder does develop bruising/discoloration.

For the money I would have got Marlin 336 in 35 rem

[outdoorfan]

Sure, probably because you prefer the 336 platform, which is fine. I prefer the 94. Not even close. To each his own.

[rr2241tx]

You could still turn the target over, but would need to grind off the old nut and weld a new one on the opposite face. Had not thought about running the chain through pipe, good idea. Conveyor belting is sort of in short supply around here unless you have an "in" at the mines. They don't encourage visitors. Mine all have holes drilled through prior to hardening. I use Grade 8 bolts and Nylok nuts on the back side. Easy to flip. Never bent one, just have one face matte black and one face traffic orange for light conditions.

[Blackwater]

Hickock hit on why various calibers "burn through" steel targets, and 90% of it is speed. Add in a solid core, like a steel penetrator as in some AP rounds, and you've got metal penetration power that can't be beat. It's not uncommon for some yahoo to get ahold of some AP rounds and go to a range and shoot holes all in the silhouettes. These idjits never seem to have to pay for the damages they've done, and most clubs just boot them out, but those steel silhouettes are kind'a spendy, and they OUGHT to have to pay for the damages.

Speed is why the little .17 penetrated while bigger, "more powerful" stuff didn't. It literally "burns through" as Hickock said.

[Catshooter]

If you weld a heat treated bolt (or nut) aren't you affecting the heat treatment? The only difference in strength between a grade 2 and an 8 is the heat treatment.

At our silhouette range we bolt feet onto the bottom of the critters leg. Grade 8s, with the nut on the back. For some reason the bolt head outlasts the nuts every time. Both are grade 8.

I've always thought that the .35-30 looks like a great round and is very tempting to me. I do have a 94 with a poor bore . . .


Cat