In the City Ground Hog Loads

[DonMountain]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Safety-Bullet

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/84807291/Gla...y%20Bullet.pdf

I read the article about the "Ness Safety Bullet" with interest and agree this would be an ideal boolet for in-city varmit shooting. Many years ago, as a Civil Engineer, I worked on the design of shooting ranges for the state Conservation Department. I did an extensive study of the ricochet problem that we were trying to resolve and the ranges all had tall berms as backstops and overhead baffles to keep people from shooting directly out of the ranges. From the shooting positions you couldn't see directly out of the range in the direction of the targets. But, we always found projectiles above the berms imbedded in the trees. So the bullets still had sufficient velocity to carry a long distance after they ricocheted. And a study of the bullets found in the trees answered the boolet design questions most likely to ricochet. Would anyone like to guess which bullets produced the most ricochets?

[Outpost75]

Years ago we used modified Hawk missile radars to track riccochets using cal. .30 and cal. .50 machineguns fired on military ranges to determine safety zones for flight paths of nearby airfields. The brass hats disputed our numbers and said there was "no way" that rounds could disperse that high and that wide. We fired a night demonstration using all tracer ammunition, firing two each of cal. .30 and cal. 50 Browning machineguns. The Navy provided a recce tech overflight with a photo F4 taking T11 camera imagery on infrared film, and the results convinced ALL of the skeptics! The pilot remarked that he should have gotten combat pay for the hop...

[country gent]

Set a lawn chair out and about 6:00 or so go out and sit in it remaining very still. They will come out and then pick your shots. I am out in the country and no restrictions on shooting. Last few years woodchuks thinck my back deck is the place to burrow under. I removed the screen from the kitchen window and use a 22 hornet on them. My long shots this way are all under 35 ft. One other recomendation get above them as much as possible so your shooting into the ground to help stop richocets. I have mobility issues and cant get around outside to get at them. Last year I got 13 from kitchen window. year before 11. DOgs running around or people activities will make the area undesirable and they will leave also

[Shooter6br]

I use a "Live trap" and relocate them. Three in one day . Getting old and soft headed and hearted. No garden to eat !

[bangerjim]

Now that your are "citified" like many of us are, you better look up and READ CAREFULLY all the laws concerning the discharge of firearms within your city limit.

Around me "no discharge of any firearm with a projectile propelled by primer or powder is allowed". And that means 22's and lite loads.........of ANYTHING!

Airguns and arrows are legal "as long as the projectile is contained by a well-designed stop on you property".

In other words, most larger cities and towns do NOT allow in any form the discharge of powder-propelled arms.

Please do check out your local laws!!!!!!! You are not in the boonies anymore.


You have chickens in town?!?!?!?!?!?

banger

[Beagle333]

See post #9 and 10 to see what it is/does.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Safety-Bullet

MiHec had a GB on em one time too.

[drinks]

Cyanide is bad stuff, I would not use it.
There is an alternative, put a small metal container of sulfur from the feed store, light it and place in the hole entrance, put a cover over the hole, you should get a stinking hole , aka dead great big ground squirrel, in a few days.
I would investigate a good trap and some recipes.
Seems a waste of good meat.

[DonMountain]

Now that your are "citified" like many of us are, you better look up and READ CAREFULLY all the laws concerning the discharge of firearms within your city limit. . . .

You have chickens in town?!?!?!?!?!?

banger

Unfortunately the city "laws" are not available for just anybody to read. And the pieces of them that I can extract from the city clerk are unreadable legal mumbo jumbo. Its obvious they were written to be interpreted any way they want if they want to "take someone down". As for the chickens in town, its just an old chicken house that probably hasn't had chickens in it for 30 years that we use for storage of yard tools.

[DonMountain]

I use a "Live trap" and relocate them. Three in one day . Getting old and soft headed and hearted. No garden to eat !

That's him right there in your picture! I borrowed a live trap last year and my wife's cat kept getting caught.

[country gent]

In most states relocating a wild animal is illegal to do. As you can also be relocating diseases and parasites much quiker and farther in a hour than would happen in the animals lifetime. Live trap and take far enough to legally dispose of. Or slide the trap in a garbage bag and seal over niggt maybe a few days. Cats arnt an issues its skunks live catch a skunk once LOL. Throw an old blanket over trap so it completly covers all sides then pick up. Another issue to keep in mind relocating a wood chuck to a field wont make you friends with the farmers there. Your more than likely looking at more than one possibly quite a few so controlling them is the issue. Look and you will see the "run" they use coming and going, place the live trap there and youll have a cute pet in no time at all.

[bangerjim]

Unfortunately the city "laws" are not available for just anybody to read. And the pieces of them that I can extract from the city clerk are unreadable legal mumbo jumbo. Its obvious they were written to be interpreted any way they want if they want to "take someone down". As for the chickens in town, its just an old chicken house that probably hasn't had chickens in it for 30 years that we use for storage of yard tools.

That stuff is public record and you should be able to go on-line for your city and read all kinds of stuff. That is the 1st thing I did. Then made some calls to the city about "related" subjects. (hint hint nudge nudge...Bob's your uncle!)

Good luck with your infestation.

banger

[Gtek]

Punji sticks, as long as there are no kitty cats somebody likes. Myself being a fan of the vertical drop above trip wire, usually spine something right behind skull- DRT.

[303Guy]

I live in the city (suburbs) and I have chickens. They used to roam free but they were pooping on the neighbours driveway and even doorstep so now I keep them in. I'm not allowed roosters though, for obvious reasons.

I also have/had rats which I feed rat pellets. Veracious feeders! They are being quieter now though.

Now to stop the neighbours cat from pooping in my shed and gravel heap.

[NavyVet1959]

A light load of a fast powder with a round ball in a bolt action can be quieter than a standard velocity .22LR. A neighbor of mine had a bolt action .22LR rifle which he loaded with some primer-only ammo and it was extremely quiet. He shot it at a fence and the sound of the bullet hitting the wood was louder than the actual firing of the gun.

[rhbrink]

I read the article about the "Ness Safety Bullet" with interest and agree this would be an ideal boolet for in-city varmit shooting. Many years ago, as a Civil Engineer, I worked on the design of shooting ranges for the state Conservation Department. I did an extensive study of the ricochet problem that we were trying to resolve and the ranges all had tall berms as backstops and overhead baffles to keep people from shooting directly out of the ranges. From the shooting positions you couldn't see directly out of the range in the direction of the targets. But, we always found projectiles above the berms imbedded in the trees. So the bullets still had sufficient velocity to carry a long distance after they ricocheted. And a study of the bullets found in the trees answered the boolet design questions most likely to ricochet. Would anyone like to guess which bullets produced the most ricochets?

I would be guessing 22 long rifle?

RB

[DonMountain]

I would be guessing 22 long rifle?

RB

No, not even close to the optimum ricochet type bullet/boolet. Most of them were large caliber lead boolets with rounded or conical noses that were fired at low velocities. 50/54 caliber heavy muzzle loader boolets, 45 ACP lead, heavy 44 Mag lead. No flatnosed wadcutter type boolets usually fired from the police 38 specials that were often fired there, or any high velocity jacketed pointy nosed rifle bullets, as in 223 or 22-250. We did find some round nosed jacketed rifle bullets but usually in the larger than 8 MM sizes. So we ran a series of tests where I hung sheets of cloth backed paper from the overhead baffle system, and carefully fired various handguns and rifles into the ground and measured the ricochet angles and carefully dug out the bullet path in the ground to track the ricochet path and what caused the ricochet. Conclusion was, hard compacted ground and concrete surfacing disintegrates bullets, and soft ground that is easy for the bullet/boolet to fluff up above it goes through a circular path directed by the more compact earth below it resisting penetration to a lower level. Hence sending the projectile on a circular path that resurfaces from the ground at a much higher angle than when it entered the ground.

[bedbugbilly]

If you're in the city . . . it's probably cheaper to buy 'em a bus ticket and tell 'em to "get out of town" or you're going to start charging them rent!

I'm out in the country on the farm and have a 357 Handi that can easily do the job . . . only problem is that the pesky little critters run as soon as they catch a motion or noise . . all but the pups which are still stupid and haven't been shot at before. I also have gone to "live trapping" but not having much luck. I've tried quite a few things to lure them in to the trap . . jelly rolls used to work for me a few years back but evidently they've lost their sweet tooth? I do catch a few possums in the live trap . . . for 'coons, I had to go to using a can of tuna fish and wiring it in the trap . . . those pesky 'coons can somehow get in there, get the can out and lick it clean and never trip the the trap.

[country gent]

Try marshmellows for bait. Peanut butter may work as well. We used to sit back 25-50 yds from the bridges on the farm and wait them out. If your sitting still and quiet they stick their nose out look around and come out proud as a peacock. Another trick when they are down in tall grass whietle load and shrilly they pop right up.

[country gent]

Sorry meant whistle

[Adam Helmer]

This is ANOTHER reason why I live on a 60-acre farm 5 miles OUT of town. If I had a woodchuck problem, I would handle it without skipping a beat in the work on my land.

In Town: I would call the Animal Control officer for the setting of live traps, cable restraints, etc. Using a firearm In Town will at a minimum get the gun confiscated and next year another woodchuck will appear in the backyard.

I would move out of town.

Adam