simple Hi-Tek coating

[Avenger442]

Kinda difficult to get much computer time anymore when your putting in 10-12 hour days in the shop, plus the kids stuff on top of that!!!!!

Been there done that. Family time very important. Mine are grown and out of the house but still make time for them.

Cast another 5 lb of bullets yesterday. Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold CTL312-160-2R. Going to size them down to .309 after first coat.

[Ausglock]

Kinda difficult to get much computer time anymore when your putting in 10-12 hour days in the shop, plus the kids stuff on top of that!!!!!

BooHoo... Ya big girl...
You sound like HITEK Joe... he has the man flu and is whinging like a little girl.

Good to see you are still in the land of the living and pumping out the bullets. Run out of coating yet???

[Gateway Bullets]

Getting low and need to order pretty soon.

[Gremlin460]

You sound like HITEK Joe... he has the man flu and is whinging like a little girl.

Oh god no, and I was just going to buy more coating! Will have to quarantine it now.

[Ausglock]

Spray it with Baygon to kill the germs...

[HI-TEK]

Oh god no, and I was just going to buy more coating! Will have to quarantine it now.

Oh nooooo, you let out my secret recipe, green slime.....lol, made from exclusive down under bugs

[popper]

Attachment 136369
300BO PB, ~1800 fps @ 100. I think the 1st group(Smokes black PC) formed a 'ring' due to base coating variations. Vertical strung were 1035 gold so the coating is more controlled on the boolit. I was really working on trigger pull, cheek weld and breathing this time. Dealing with bad weather and wife's relatives and 2 sisters have kept me from testing in the 308 this week. Lots of rain scheduled for next week, I need a break. Interested in Avenger's 308 results too.

[Avenger442]

Attachment 136369
300BO PB, ~1800 fps @ 100. I think the 1st group(Smokes black PC) formed a 'ring' due to base coating variations. Vertical strung were 1035 gold so the coating is more controlled on the boolit. I was really working on trigger pull, cheek weld and breathing this time. Dealing with bad weather and wife's relatives and 2 sisters have kept me from testing in the 308 this week. Lots of rain scheduled for next week, I need a break. Interested in Avenger's 308 results too.

Popper
Looks like your results are a little better than mine. So far mine are running about 1 1/2 " groups at best. My shooting technique is not greatest in the world so I use a rest to eliminate some of my bad habits. Are you shooting from a rest?
Was at the range the other day with a young friend of mine and his Granddad. His 75 year old Granddad hit the 100 yard target with his lever action 30-30 once in the bulls eye and twice within three inches of center out of five shots using iron sights no rest. He was kidding me a little about using the scope but my eyes are bad enough that I have to at 100 yards. With no rest and the scope I out shot him but not by much.

[popper]

Adjustable front stand & rabbit ears back bag. Scoped rifle as I can't focus on the BUIS. I push the LR308 carbine to 2500 GC'd and get 1 1/2" - haven't shot it for a while. If the H.T. 308 170gr. with gold works I'll stop ESPC altogether.

[kryogen]

Adjustable front stand & rabbit ears back bag. Scoped rifle as I can't focus on the BUIS. I push the LR308 carbine to 2500 GC'd and get 1 1/2" - haven't shot it for a while. If the H.T. 308 170gr. with gold works I'll stop ESPC altogether.

I have stopped PC also.

[Shotgundrums]

Yea, Gremlin,
I am an advocate of a mini cyclone inside ovens.
That evens out air temperatures, transfers heat into alloy faster, temperature controllers become more reliant, even cooking of all alloys.
If you oven has low wattage, it should really not matter much, as long as you are aware, that time inside oven, of coated alloys may be needed to be "adjusted" to suit.
Having said all that, many are getting good results with small ovens as they do not have big loads, and have plenty or air space between alloys during bake.
I suppose, people make do with what works for them, after some playing, to find optimum conditions for their equipment

I smashed some bullets coated months ago that now we're failing by flaking when hammered past a certain point.
I took some of these bullets which I thought were cured...at the 28 second mark of the wipe test, faint coloring started to appear. I took a shot and threw them back in the oven. After 20 minutes I then tested again. This time, no flaking when smashed down to 1/8 inch. Then threw in some freshly coated bullets and finally after 20 minutes, all have passed. However, because of the much longer dwell time, the color is far darker than prescribed: red copper turns almost maroon, brown copper turns to something just above a maroon, zombie green almost a golden green. While the color isn't the most important thing, these are just some observations.
My oven is not overloaded. The fan works. How efficiently it circulates I'm not sure. The temp is verified by a couple lead thermometers, with and without tray loads.
For all intents and purposes, this oven manages to cure the coating. It's far slower and color is misrepresented.
These are my small oven observations. I may have to get a new oven...$$$...Mine seems to be too underpowered. If curing metallic coatings, it takes a MINIMUM of 20 minutes to fully cure and pass 30 seconds of wipe test. Non, around 16+ minutes.

[robertbank]

My order from Bayou Bullets should be here Monday or Tuesday according to PO tracking. I mentioned this on another thread, thanks Donnie your service is outstanding. Will do more business with you as need arises.

Take Care

Bob

[HI-TEK]

I smashed some bullets coated months ago that now we're failing by flaking when hammered past a certain point.
I took some of these bullets which I thought were cured...at the 28 second mark of the wipe test, faint coloring started to appear. I took a shot and threw them back in the oven. After 20 minutes I then tested again. This time, no flaking when smashed down to 1/8 inch. Then threw in some freshly coated bullets and finally after 20 minutes, all have passed. However, because of the much longer dwell time, the color is far darker than prescribed: red copper turns almost maroon, brown copper turns to something just above a maroon, zombie green almost a golden green. While the color isn't the most important thing, these are just some observations.
My oven is not overloaded. The fan works. How efficiently it circulates I'm not sure. The temp is verified by a couple lead thermometers, with and without tray loads.
For all intents and purposes, this oven manages to cure the coating. It's far slower and color is misrepresented.
These are my small oven observations. I may have to get a new oven...$$$...Mine seems to be too underpowered. If curing metallic coatings, it takes a MINIMUM of 20 minutes to fully cure and pass 30 seconds of wipe test. Non, around 16+ minutes.

Thanks for your findings.
Main areas that may cause this possibly, is that ambient temperatures outside are very cold, and if oven walls are not insulated, will cause mayor heat losses, and, your heating element capacity struggles to keep up with maintaining heat losses.
Heat coming /radiating from these ovens through the walls, can be useful when trying to dry next batch on top but no good when trying to speed things up.
It may be useful to insulated internal walls to try and trap heat inside.
Many cheap materials are available from hardware stores that may be suitable to internally line small ovens..
Various mineral thin boards can be simply glued in place with High temperature Automotive type Silicone but please ensure that vents, that allow escape of gasses/fumes is not blocked up.

With Metallic coatings, due to their heat reflecting property, also adds to slowing of heat transfers into alloys, especially if heating is not adequate, by element being low wattage, or too much heat losses through oven wall, or combination of both.

It never seems to stop amazing me, with all sorts of variables that had popped up, that require problem solving, since coatings were introduced into colder climatic areas.
I am very impressed with all you guys, who have taken time and effort, certainly showed a great resolve, and ingenious inventiveness to overcome shortfalls.
Thank you all much for your efforts.

[Avenger442]

Hey Joe, while we are helping you we are helping ourselves in the process.

I have a cheap (even when it was new) convection oven that will only hold one tray bought at a yard sale. No insulation in the walls of the oven. Outside gets really hot on the top. I found early on that a lot of my heat was escaping around the door. There was no seal between door and oven with about an eighth inch gap all around the edge of the door. I overcame this with a high temperature silicone seal. One of my earlier post tells you how to create it. We used this stuff to put car engines together when we couldn't find the right gasket. It will take well over 500 F degrees without breaking down. After sealing the door that is about the max temp the oven will reach.

Another thing that I would question would be the lead thermometer being used. I've found that these, while accurate enough to heat lead, are not close enough to bake the coating. Would suggest a cooking/frying thermometer that reads over 500 F. If you ever want to check the accuracy of a thermometer, boil water and stick thermometer in it. Should read 100 C or 212 F. My lead thermometer was way off but found that I could adjust it. The PIDs have taken all the guess work out for melting the lead. I haven't tried the one on the oven while baking a load of bullets yet.

Shotgundrums keep at it.

[gunoil]

Gateway, u sell these? Magma mold, eric said u have it.



38/357

[atygrit]

I am STILL having issues with the coating coming off in my 45 and 9mm barrels. First I tried my own coated bullets then ordered from two manufacturers to see if it was my bullets, and I'm still getting the same issue.

Please give me some ideas on what to look for that could be causing this issue. I am at my whits end on this, I have been messing with this off and on for over a year. I wouldn't complain about it too much except everyone states theirs is clean except for carbon and the coating is a royal pain to scrub out of the barrel!

The 45 barrel (1st picture) has coating in the breach of the barrel and nothing at the muzzle after 100 rounds.

The 9 mm barrel (2nd and 3rd pictures) has the coating at the muzzle end of the barrel after 100 rounds.

The 45 is a PT1911 and the 9 mm is a XDM 4.5

[HI-TEK]

The 9 mm barrel (2nd and 3rd pictures) has the coating at the muzzle end of the barrel after 100 rounds.

The 45 is a PT1911 and the 9 mm is a XDM 4.5

[/QUOTE]

The warning signs for me, if coating is being deposited/bonded to inside barrel any where, is mainly caused by not adequate curing or not enough temperature or both.
Coating deposited will bond strongly to surfaces due to heat generated by powder burn gasses.
Essentially, it is then cured and bonded with supplied heat, to where it was smeared initially.
My initial suggestions are, ensure solvent test passes with first coat, also smash tests passes with first coat.
When cool, have a look at test parameters, and ensure all pass, before you do any thing else.
If you can, try and simply bake a few coated projectiles at say 210C for 10-12 minutes.
If you are not "heat setting adequately" that is main reason for coating residue deposits occurring.
Longer heat/bake times should fix this, and, may also darken colour, but should not affect bond to alloy and should eliminate re-deposits you are seeing or think what you are seeing.
Additional heat/cure simply ensures complete set of coating.
Afterwards, extra heat from any source, should not soften or melt correctly baked film.

[popper]

Looks like leading to me, happens to my XDs every once in a while, especially with a fast powder like WST. Only time I've seen actual coating in the barrel was using liquid green, PB & pushed to 1300 in a 30/30. Got a tough donut of coating at a tight spot in the barrel and had to pound it out with the cleaning rod, chore boy brush wouldn't touch it.
I don't smash that thin but do it on a paper tower. Rub to see it any fine flakes are on the paper. If so, recycle.
After sizing I inspect for any trace of lead showing - re-cycle.
Most toaster ovens have no insulation so an old folded cotton bath tower over the top and back is enough and doesn't burn. Just don't cover any air vents on the oven. I do a final bake for 1 hr (H.T.ing) for 9 & 40, color changes but it works fine.

[atygrit]

Looks like leading to me

Thank you for the observation because I now think you are correct. I ran a cleaning patch after scrubbing the barrel and I see a few slivers of lead.

[Ausglock]

To: Everyone that reads this.
I, Ausglock, wish to apologise to all and sundry that have been offended by my liberal use of "Naughty" words and/or phrases.
Mr. HITEK will now have to stop producing the Coating formally known as DD Red as this coloured coatings name has Offended people.

Maybe it is my Australian sense of humour that is too "Naughty" for the rest of the free world.
Goodbye.