Unusual Rifle on Gunbroker......

[oldracer]

I sent an email to the listing person and he replied he pretty much knows nothing about it? I did a search on the name on the stock and got nothing back so I thought I'd see if anyone here has seen this? It is hand made as you can tell by the fit and finish and appears to have a patent breech and why the false muzzle other than to give you a place to hammer in patched round balls? Finally about the strangest mount for the rear sight I have ever seen but then again it does allow for a lot of adjustment!!!!

Here is the link: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=474250851

[nicholst55]

It's definitely different...

[MaLar]

I don't think that's a round ball gun.
I believe it's a slug gun. Look up Harry Pope he built guns like this.
The false muzzle should be tapered so to load a slug into the rifleing.
Usually made from a section of the barrel itself.

I believe it would be called a stump or log gun.

[Mgderf]

I can't imagine that thing would have any recoil at all.
It looks like it must weigh 25lbs or more.

[drago9900]

Round ball bench guns are similar, they use false muzzles too.

[pworley1]

It looks like a shooter.

[Golfswithwolves]

The improvised sight base suggests that there may have once been a tang sight instead of the present arrangement.

[Longone]

The improvised sight base suggests that there may have once been a tang sight instead of the present arrangement.

That and not knowing the condition of the bore makes it a big **** shoot, I sent the person selling that rifle a message through GB and never got a response so that spoke volumes to me.

Longone

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That and not knowing the condition of the bore makes it a big **** shoot, I sent the person selling that rifle a message through GB and never got a response so that spoke volumes to me.

Longone

Doesn't dare lie, and doesn't want to tell the truth. There is a lot of that about on internet auctions. Oscar Wilde said that ignorance is like an exotic fruit (which Wilde would know about): touch it once, and the bloom is gone.

t's modern. "GR Douglas" is the mark of the Douglas barrel company, although it may be quite a while since they made heavy octagonal barrels. I don't believe they make octagon barrels now (if it came from the factory octagonal) but it certainly isn't nineteenth century.

http://www.douglasbarrels.net/palma/

The wood doesn't look old either, and I think that is a modern varnish finish.

As to what it imitates, there was a style of heavy, large-bore muzzle-loading rifle made for long-range benchrest shooting before the Civil War. They mostly used heavy elongated bullets, and without that weight the recoil would have been very severe. Some of them were fitted with very good vernier tang sights, but his rifle's sight is in a style which didn't become current until much later, and has been clumsily adapted by an owner. The screw in the false muzzle replaces a taller post or paddle, which should prevent a shooter from absent-mindedly shooting off his false muzzle. It is quite hard to make a perfect replacement.

An even more extreme rifle of this type, possibly from the author's collection, is described on Page 89 of the following book by Charles Winthrop Sawyer, and illustrated on the facing page. It figures in a very interesting short story on Page 91.

https://archive.org/stream/firearmsi...ge/90/mode/2up

Such is the wonder of the internet that we are a lot closer to finding a previous owner of the rifle than Sawyer could have been iin 1920.

http://records.ancestry.com/george_l...x?pid=22054220

Not but what it would be fun to shoot, if the bore was OK and the price was right. But it isn't, quite. It might come down if it doesn't sell.

[John Allen]

if anyone wants to see more of these go to Dixon's gun makers fair they have quite a few.

[oldracer]

Thanks for looking and most of you mirror my thoughts. I did send an email and the response I got was he knew nothing about it except it "shot great" and couldn't tell me what he shot? It might be stolen or something like that? Some searching on the seller's name "Rudy Hanson" shows he has sold some unfinished AR-15 lowers and lives in a suburb of L.A. If anyone else can help I'd appreciate it.
John

[JSnover]

The false muzzle also prevented damage to the crown from cleaning rods, gorilla-seating the ball, etc. I believe it's rare to find a vintage piece with the false muzzle. They tend to get lost. This one doesn't look that old.

[Nobade]

Wouldn't touch it myself. Too much of that is hacked together.

-Nobade

[pietro]

.

The false muzzle is nothing more than a few inches of the muzzle end of the barrel, cut off prior to rifling, then the cutoff piece and the new muzzle drilled for the alignment pins.

The false muzzle was clamped in place for rifling together with the barrel before both were crowned & a sight blocking pin installed atop the false muzzle (so the gun would not be shot with it in place).



The reason for a false muzzle on a target rifle is to ensure that the boolit enters the barrel perfectly inline with the bore when it was loaded, and also to save any wear on the barrel's crown.

Oldtime BP target shooters, like today's target shooters, were fanatical about doing every little thing they could to make a rifle more accurate.

Many muzzleloading caplock rifles, built for target shooting, can be found in Ned Robert's book "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle" - a worth while read for anyone interested in frontstuffers.

The rifle on GB has been cobbled together from a variety of old/new parts, as can be seen with the bubba shims used under the receiver peep sight to align it with the bore.



The GB rifle was made either by/for someone named Bill Cowgill, as indicated on the buttstock's dedication plate - his "Big Medicine" rifle, if you will.

It would make an interesting project gun, if it were only priced anywhere near it's reasonable value ($250, +/-)

It looks like all it would really need to be a good shooter is a proper tang peep sight & replacing the sight-blocking screw on the false muzzle with something more appropriate than a modern machine screw - but I'd also disappear the beavertail forend.

It would also bring better money (maybe an extra $100) if it were parted out.



.

[oldracer]

Well I called Dixon's back in PA (Thanks John) and the name on the gun was not familiar. I agree about the mix of parts and especially the way the rear sight is mounted. But.....the patent breech joint does look pretty good and you can see where the barrel was cut to make the false muzzle. I did look through Major Roberts' book and there are a lot of pictures of "target" rifles unfortunately they are not very large! I am thinking of asking to meet half way to San Diego, maybe in Oceanside at a gun shop and look down the barrel with my bore scope?

[mattw]

Not a bad looking bench gun. Not sure where you are located, but Friendship Indiana has the NMLRA nation shoot each year and you can see many of these do thier thing. Fun to watch, have always wanted to try it one.

[wonderwolf]

I've seen a few of those around, never seen one shoot. Oddly enough the ones I've seen use a chase patch iirc this one does not appear to have the need for one so I'm not really sure what kind of projectile it takes. Muzzle doesn't look like normal rifling either.

[waarp8nt]

I like everything, but the crappy job of shimming the rear sight.

Like mattw, I've seen a few at Friendship myself and I have always liked to watch them shoot. Would love to shoot one myself.

If your looking for info, it may not hurt in inquire of the NMLRA to see if that was the name of a gunsmith or a registered shooter. They may or may not have any info to give you, but you won't be out anything either.

[wonderwolf]

I messaged the seller as to the specifics on the bore, he just simply said "great bore" does not really instill a lot of faith in me but if I had the coin and the need that would be awfully tempting.

Also doing some more research shows the rifle was up for auction one other time with a buy it now of $750...

[Longone]

[QUOTE=oldracer;3197568 I am thinking of asking to meet half way to San Diego, maybe in Oceanside at a gun shop and look down the barrel with my bore scope?[/QUOTE]


Oldracer, maybe before you take a ride, see if he will run a patch down the bore and send you the pic? If he sends a pic of a new patch you know what that means.

Just a thought.

Longone