Ultrasonic brass cleaning ?

[GRid.1569]

No experience of BP fouling but I use a Ultra Sonic cleaner for brass and nitro powders... I use a product called sea green that you get from Maplins... Clean but dull looking brass... Couple of hours in the lyman tumbler and they look great.....

[loadedbutbroke]

No experience of BP fouling but I use a Ultra Sonic cleaner for brass and nitro powders... I use a product called sea green that you get from Maplins... Clean but dull looking brass... Couple of hours in the lyman tumbler and they look great.....

Hi GRid.1569

Thanks for that, I also have had good results with Nitro filled cases like .303 even after they have been shot a number of times. The problem seems to be this wretched black powder which is huge fun to shoot but a b----r to clean up after.

The Seagreen 2 I have, and while it does work, it seems to run out of strength quickly, so with BP you do have to keep changing the water between stages which of course becomes quite expensive at say three or four capfuls a go (my machine has a 1 lt tank) .

The other problem with the BP cases, mine anyway, is that they seem to get this black goo inside which the Ultrasonic cleaner does not seem to shift, this in particular I am anxious to solve as removing it with swabs is very time consuming.

All the best

Adrian

[Forgetful]

You could fashion a high-pressure water nozzle that fits the primer pocket, and blast out that black goo.

I'd like to know what that goo is.. If it was any kind of hydrocarbon, you could break it up easy with some NaOH.

[loadedbutbroke]

Hi, I don't know what the goo is but others think it could be inefficiently burnt powder; another possibility is fouling combined with the lube I use which has petroleum based ingredients in it. Or of course a mix of the two. Maybe the soaking in water and dish washer fluid is also combining with the fouling?

Next shoot I am going to look more carefully at what is in the cases before using the ultrasonic machine. I will swab some out, and I will do some with white spirit to see if that removes any greasy deposits. ( I may leave some un-soaked in detergent to see what difference that is making.)

I like your idea about the caustic soda but will this not attack the aluminium in the brass and make the cases brittle?

Adrian

Just a couple more observations. When I shot my Black powder Snider .577 with liquid Alox lube I thought I was never going to get the barrel clean due to a very sticky goo all up it.

With the lube I am using the barrel cleans up quite easily without using hot water. I also get a little lube on the end of the muzzle after shooting so it seems to be doing its job from the chamber onwards

[Forgetful]

I like your idea about the caustic soda but will this not attack the aluminium in the brass and make the cases brittle?

Bases and metals get along great.

[Charlie in Co]

Most shooting BPCR have gone to using a Thumblers Tumbler and stainless pins. This will get your brass looking like new. Some water, Squirt of Dawn and Lemishine and within an hour your're done. very happy with this method for all dirty brass cleaning

[country gent]

We had a hot caustic soda cleaning tank at one shop where I worked. It was great for greases and cruds put the big parts in and the little ones in a mesh box or boxes and let work overnight. But any aluminum was destroed if left in to long. would dislove the metal slowly and what was left was brittle. Caustic soda is an acid. It might even work on the zink in the cartridge brass

[Forgetful]

Caustic soda is a base, not an acid. Bases don't react with metals, in general. They teach that in grade 9 science.. NaOH does react with Al, thusly:

2Al(s) + 2NaOH(aq) + 6H2O → 2Na+(aq) + 2[Al(OH)4]- + 3H2(g)

[Bonz]

through a handful of "raw" white rice into your vibratory tumbler along with the corncob. LOL, and definitely not "Minute Rice", I'm talking about raw white rice.

[country gent]

Well the cleaning tank used caustic soda beads, It ate aluminum over night and would cause burns if it got on the skin. In the production area caustic soda was used to sterilize and clean soup kettles and food handling equipment. 600 gallons or so of water a measured amount of caustic soda and heat for several hours removed scourch and cleaned it. If really bad schorches then tomato paste was used first. After the caustic soad boil those stainless steel kettles were bright again. These were Production soup kettles heated with steam in a steam jacket around them.

[Idz]

I always use a dilute baking soda solution after acid baths to neutralize any remaining acid. Never had a brass case turn green since I started doing this.

[loadedbutbroke]

Hi, I checked on another web sight which seemed to indicate that caustic soda does dissolve aluminium and zinc and possibly even attacks copper. It is of course horrible stuff to work with (I use it for drain clearing and cleaning up barbecue racks which it does very effectively.) so I have not tried it with the brass cases.

I have shot again since the last time and used the ultrasonic cleaner and found as follows.

With citric acid using the heater and degassed the brass remained stained in patches in 30 minuets but the inside of the cases are still plagued with black goo which I swabbed out as best I could and then tumbled for about 4 hours. The brass came out better/brighter but still stained and required cleaning again in the machine with some Seaclean 2 which did better at cleaning off the staining and the primmer pockets. However there was still some black left in some of the cases which required swabbing out again. Pretty much the same result as before.

So all in all the Ultrasonic machine does seem to help but is not really saving a lot of time. I have also tried some other batches of shot cases recently. There is no doubt that soaking in washing up water helps a good deal as batches soaked clean much easier than batches left un-soaked from the range. My feeling is that the Sea clean 2 works better than the Citric acid. A little washing up liquid seems to help as well.

I spoke to a fellow club ,member who also uses an Ultrasonic machine and his experience is that the Lyman product works really well so I am trying to source some of this and some polish to go in the tumbler (I have the Lyman green media). But it still takes time, although he seems to be doing better than me!

I suppose the disappointing thing is the time it takes to do all this cleaning, swabbing, drying off, tumbling, re -cleaning etc. Are there any fans of ultrasonic cleaning out there who can help?

[Forgetful]

You're trying to clean black goo with an ultrasonic cleaner. That's like cleaning an oilspill with a toothbrush. You have a better hammer but the problem isn't a nail.

Have you tried using a dishwasher soap pod in a wet tumbler? or perhaps even in your ultrasonic cleaner. I suggest dishwasher specifically because it doesn't produce suds.

[loadedbutbroke]

Have you tried using a dishwasher soap pod in a wet tumbler? or perhaps even in your ultrasonic cleaner. I suggest dishwasher specifically because it doesn't produce suds.

Yes but not in the ultrasonic. In the early days I used to put the cases in the cutlery rack, mouth down and let the dishwasher do ts business, seemed to clean the cases quite well but they still required a good deal of tumbling say 8 hours. I could not say weather or not it removed the goo. Having said that I don't know if it created any!

I think your idea of using a tablet in the ultrasonic is a good one, unfortunately I do not have any dirty cases at the moment to try it. I will have a go following my next shoot (probably not before February).

I have also managed to find some Lyman solution which I am looking forward to trying at the same time. I will experiment again with different batches.

Just a couple of other things on the goo. I tried swabbing out with white spirit as I thought it might help with any excess lube but seemed quite ineffective. I have also tried straight diluted washing up liquid with poor results although it does seem to clean up after tumbling quite well.

Adrian

[hiram]

I use a thumblers tumbles with ceramic media. Add water and 1/2 tsp of dawn and 1/2 --- 1 tsp of citric acid salt. I have to put sunglasses on when I open the container. Try the same solution in the ultrasonic bath. More tedious is to use 'never dull', last I heard available at Walmart. Originally in a blue can, now in silver. It is good on many surfaces. Open a can, it is stuffed with a material like kapok and saturated with a solution. It smells like paint thinner, but not sure what it is. Tear off a piece and start rubbing.

[Virginia John]

I use a Tumblers Tumbler with 1 gal of water, 1 tsp Dawn and 1/4 tsp citric acid with 5# SS pins and it does a great job.

[gunfreak]

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

I use the brass cleaning recipe on this site as well as many of the other tips. Some of you may find the site useful.

[loadedbutbroke]

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

I use the brass cleaning recipe on this site as well as many of the other tips. Some of you may find the site useful.

Hello gunfreak

Thanks for the info on the homemade products site; very comprehensive and informative.

A lot in there too about bore cleaning, another expensive process here in the UK.

I have just taken delivery of the Lyman solution for ultrasonic cleaning, I will let you know how I get on with that compared to the other things I have tried. I will be shooting again in February so should have some cases to do then.

Adrian

[Bob Maerdian]

Try soaking an hour or two in dish soap and water, rinse. Let dry put in ultrasonic cleaner for about 20 min. with a bit 1-2 teaspoons of cream of tartar. Rinse. tumble with ceramic or stainless steel short pins. Rinse and dry and when well dried, load. Good luck with it Adrian!

Bob

[loadedbutbroke]

Just a quick update

I still have not shot black powder again for a couple of months but I have received the Lyman Ultrasonic cleaning solution. So I thought I would give it a try with some couple of times fired .303 HXP cases which have been kept dirty for about 10 years. (I don't normally bother cleaning .303 cases)

25 minuets in Ultrasonic machine with the Lyman fluid

10 mins Dried off in fan oven

1 hr in Tumbler with Lyman green corn cob and a little Lyman Turbo Brite.

5 mins in Ultrasonic machine with Fairy washing up liquid.

10 mins Dried off in fan oven

Result impressive!

Almost as new, clean inside and out with a reasonable shine. Ready to reload. If only the black powder 45/70's are going to be as easy!!!!!

Adrian