Montana opinions please

[BD]

I have a friend looking to sell his place in Eureka. Big house, he had horses, on a creek with water rights.
BD

[Just Duke]

One of the expenses we're trying to allow for when we make our move to a small ranch/hobby farm. We're figuring in about $100,000 for equipment, machinery, materials etc. And that's if the place is already being worked as a small livestock/hobby farm operation. Because everyone always underestimates expenses, we're going to hold another $40,000 in reserve for what my mom used to refer to as, "GOK" (God Only Knows).

Tractor? I know I'll need one. That's something that I'm hoping those here on Cast Boolits who have "been there and done that" can offer their expert advice on, make(s) and model(s) I should be looking at. Loader? backhoe attachments?

smokeywolf

From my research JD makes the better tractor and implements. MF makes a nice tractor but many say on the tractor forum that MF round balers and square have many an issue. Just check adds and see how many there are for sale. Your price of 100K sounds awfully high. Were are going with used equipment and rebuilding as needed although we have had second thoughts as most tell me on the rancher forum that if they had to do it all over again they would just buy hay. If we just move back home as we have been seriously contemplating hay is dirt cheap on our Northern I-5 corridor. Disdain for the indigenous personnel attitudes, behavior, dietary abuses and lifestyle dissuades us from our ingress. NE-Texas, anything east of Branson MO, and south of Nashville have hay cheaper than one can make it also. The peoples of that area are really nice also.

[pull the trigger]

He has been out there a couple times. He is going to rent a while to see if it is as nice as he thinks it will be. Alot of this is great info. Thanks alot!

[MT Gianni]

Duke, I assumed he needed a tractor to move snow.

[smokeywolf]

From my reaserch JD makes the better tractor and implements. MF makes a nice tractor but many say on the tractor forum that MF round balers and square have many an issue. Just check adds and see how many there are for sale. Your price of 100K sounds awfully high. Were are going with used equipment and rebuilding as needed although we have had second thoughts as most tell me on the rancher forum that if they had to do it all over again they would just buy hay. If we just move back home as we have been seriously contemplating hay is dirt cheap on our Northern I-5 corridor. Disdain for the indigenous personnel attitudes, behavior, dietary abuses and lifestyle dissuades us from our ingress. NE-Texas, anything east of Branson MO, and south of Nashville have hay cheaper than one can make it also. The peoples of that area are really nice also.

Not at all what I intend to shell out for just the tractor. That's for tractor, attachments, ATVs, security equipment/system(s), fencing, feeders (if needed), couple of pieces of woodworking machinery, etc., etc. Was thinking of planting an orchard that maybe will produce enough (after several years) to offset property taxes and maybe propane costs.

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

[smokeywolf]

Duke, I assumed he needed a tractor to move snow.

I like Montana quite well. But, Mrs. smokeywolf says, although she's old fashioned and believes a wife should go anywhere her husband decides. She's not too sure she will enjoy being restricted or encumbered by the severe Winters.

[starmac]

If you check out farm sales, and will buy a larger tractor than the yuppie or gentlemen farmer crowd likes, you can get them much cheaper. Masseys,john deeres internationals will all last a small operation a life time, case will as well, but I don't like them if you are going to use a loader on the. For a hay baler, the little hesston inlines puts all other small balers to shame quick. I have had good luck with both John Deere and New Holland balers too and they would be fine for a small operation, but unless your talking quite a bit of baling, I would just use a custom baler, or get a nice inline and do some custom baling also. It also takes less horsepower to pull the hesstons. I wouldn't even think of the big squares, unless you are talking thousands of tons a year.

[Just Duke]

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

That's about right.

[Just Duke]

Not at all what I intend to shell out for just the tractor. That's for tractor, attachments, ATVs, security equipment/system(s), fencing, feeders (if needed), couple of pieces of woodworking machinery, etc., etc. Was thinking of planting an orchard that maybe will produce enough (after several years) to offset property taxes and maybe propane costs.

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

Have someone from the extension office come out and tell you what type of soil is on the property. Also how deep the soil is. Proper soil PH will make you or break you. If I was pondering fruit trees and we have, WA, OR MO, TN and NE Texas would be more conducive for them. Check underground aquifers and water table level. WATER IS THE NEW GOLD!!! An irrigation system can start at 50K and takes lots of power to run. You mentioned one time MO. Anything S. of I-70 you will not be able to plow due to shallow soil per everyone we have talked to. N. of I-70.......... Everything starts at a high 5K per acre.
Bad thing about MO and anything East of Central KS is chiggers, ticks, 13 or so poisonous snakes, bug haven, they have a new tick born disease out by the way, Tornado's and Hurricanes and humidity like sometimes 100%. Eastern OK's state bird is the tick. Some area's are full of pigs that destroy everything in their wake. They do get 39 inches of water though.
TX is almost as bad. I do say though I find the good people of TX most pleasant to be in the company of.

[BPCR Bill]

Financially, he would be better off tax-wise in Wyoming for retirement. I recommend Cody or Sheridan. There are a lot of folks who retire from Montana and move to Wyoming.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

One of my nephews lived in Montana for a time , Billings, I think it was and he worked as a carpenter. He said the crew was framing houses one day and the temperature fell to forty below, not counting wind chill. The job was shut down. While working he wore electric socks and kept hand warmers in several pockets. He finally had enough and moved to New Castle Wyoming in the Black Hills. We visited him there and I found the place depressing. Lots of people driving around in rusted out cars and trucks with little to do. It is not surprising that so many young people turn to drugs or alcohol. It was like much of what small town America has become. Very sad. I did want to go to the Quigley match in Montana before I check out but at my age it is unlikely that I will ever make it. Didn't Elmer Keith say when he moved to Idaho, " I left Montana and I'm never going back".

[starmac]

13 or so poisonous snakes, hmm has mo started importing them, or is that 13 snakes in the state??? lol

[Just Duke]

13 or so poisonous snakes, hmm has mo started importing them, or is that 13 snakes in the state??? lol

Source; http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/co...eptiles/snakes
Missouri's venomous snakes include the copperhead, cottonmouth, western pygmy rattlesnake, massasauga rattlesnake, and timber rattlesnake. The western diamond-backed rattlesnake and coralsnake are not found in Missouri. The most common venomous snake in Missouri is the copperhead. To our knowledge, there have only been two human deaths attributed to venomous snakes in Missouri: a 1933 timber rattlesnake bite and a 1965 copperhead bite.

There are different breeds of each specie. Example Cotton Mouth http://www.cottonmouthsnake.org/

It's all fun and games until the necropsy sets in. Graphic pics can be found by just googleing "copperhead bite" and clicking on images. I'm not quite sure at this time what the admin stands on graphic pics links.

[Just Duke]

One of my nephews lived in Montana for a time , Billings, I think it was and he worked as a carpenter. He said the crew was framing houses one day and the temperature fell to forty below, not counting wind chill. The job was shut down. While working he wore electric socks and kept hand warmers in several pockets. He finally had enough and moved to New Castle Wyoming in the Black Hills. We visited him there and I found the place depressing. Lots of people driving around in rusted out cars and trucks with little to do. It is not surprising that so many young people turn to drugs or alcohol. It was like much of what small town America has become. Very sad. I did want to go to the Quigley match in Montana before I check out but at my age it is unlikely that I will ever make it. Didn't Elmer Keith say when he moved to Idaho, " I left Montana and I'm never going back".

Idaho is really nice.

[starmac]

Too particular, If it is a rattle snake, I kill it, I don't care if it is a pigmy, a diamond back, or sidewinder. The same with cotton mouths and copperheads. Even in coral snake country, I have seen less than a handful in the wild.

If I was looking for a move to that part of the country, I would look hard at Anderson Mo. I only know a few folks from that area, but it is a beautiful little town on the river in some beautiful country.

[onceabull]

FWIW,Elmer K. didn't get very far from Montana to where he spent the majority of his time in Idaho. and for of his last 40 years,there were more people where he lived than in any village to the north until one got to Missoula. Perhaps there were to many democrats in Montana for his tastes ????? Onceabull

[Just Duke]

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

On a lucky weekend on Craigslist we found applicable JD tractors which hover around 16K to 17K and in serious need of a paint job and they are made in the 70's to real early 80's.
You will need a larger tractor than what were looking at to till that hard pack of MT. Where were looking is black sandy loam like in my back yard in OR. You can sink a shovel in the ground there bare foot due to the soil quality. The PNW I-5 corridor has the best soil on the planet for growning most things. I'm told by the extension guy at our place up there that 95 percent of the seed in the US is grown on the I-5 corridor.
I have chatted many an hour via the phone with late Bob Krack about tractors and discussions on the tractor forum.

[Just Duke]

http://www.msuextension.org/

[pull the trigger]

FWIW,Elmer K. didn't get very far from Montana to where he spent the majority of his time in Idaho. and for of his last 40 years,there were more people where he lived than in any village to the north until one got to Missoula. Perhaps there were to many democrats in Montana for his tastes ????? Onceabull

Way too many demo rats in NY too. That why he is leaving.

[NVScouter]

Financially, he would be better off tax-wise in Wyoming for retirement. I recommend Cody or Sheridan. There are a lot of folks who retire from Montana and move to Wyoming.

Cody is very expensive for WY. West Park Hospital is top notch (I've worked at dozens) and well above any other rural hospital I know. You should look at Meeteetsee WY puts you about 40 minutes out and property is 1/2. Nice little town, only tourists are getting gas or hunting.

How big a spread and how many irrigated acres? Orchards wont need as much equipment as hay or corn. I'd have somebody with a ripper do the orchard at one time. A big ripper can run a 4' deep trench in 10 acres in a day for that. An auger will take a LOT longer.

The kind of area you want are already set up with lots of hobby farms and honestly most of those go to heck. People with lots of money move to the country and get a 5 acre "Ranch" and buy equipment. Its up for cheap when they move a winter or two later. Moving heavy equipment isnt cheap so it goes for a steal with attachments.