Suitable rifle for PPCB

[John L]

I have not done any paper patching, just reading about it. I am wondering about the relative suitability of the Marlin 336 in 30-30, Savage 1899 in 300 Savage, and a bolt action 30-06 for paper patching. The question here is probability the compatibility of the microgroove rifling with paper patching. How would the Model 1894 in 44 Rem Mag work? My Spanish Short Rifles in 7x57 Mauser appear to have much deeper rifling. Would that make them more suitable? I am not casting so I am buying the cast bullets. I was having fun with .309 135 grain LFN bullets at reduced loads. Would they be suitable for a first try at paper patching? All criticisms welcome since this is a new venture.

[303Guy]

Probably all of them. The 7x57 would have a long throat and that to me is the ideal. You want a reasonably long boolit to be able to patch easily and the 7 provides that. I'd give that one a go. The 30-06 would also have a fairly large throat but not too long I'd think but importantly it has a long throat so I'd think the 30-06 would be good. The 30-30 has been done with micro-grooves. I haven't heard of the 300 Savage being done but the 44 mag has been done. I'd think all rifle calibers can be done, just that some may be easier than others - not sure.

[pdawg_shooter]

PPing for a micro groove barrel works fine. You will need to fit the bullet to the bore +.001/.0015. Use a tough paper, the micro groove is hard on patches. Patch up to a good fit in the throat and it will work fine.

[Harter66]

And the 7x57s have the advantage of 277-8 cast boolits being ''readilly'' availible. I would treat the 300 Sav as the 308,after all they are cousins. The 30-30 ,if it shoots cast well,will likely not show big gains over ''full tilt'' cast loads. Based on a plain base I shoot in a 32 Rem that actually exceeds jacketed preformance.

[303Guy]

Based on a plain base I shoot in a 32 Rem that actually exceeds jacketed performance.

It is said that the paper patch boolit has a higher velocity and lower pressure than a j-word for the same powder charge. It seems to be that way from my own observations. That makes me wonder whether more performance can be gained with the 30-30 over a j-word load, in which case paper patching for the 30-30 would be worthwhile. I've mentioned in several posts how my 303 Brit drives a 194 gr PP boolit to 2045 fps in a 15½ inch barrel with moderate pressure (an intuitive evaluation of pressure on my part based on primer flattening).

[9.3X62AL]

303 Guy--I've had a recent re-awakening of interest in PP-ing for at least a couple of my centerfires, and one of those is a 1918 BSA No. 1 Mk III with WIDE grooves and throat (.315"/.316"). Need to pin-gauge the bore to see what I'm working with here. I have an array of nominal 30 caliber rifle moulds on hand, but their .300"-.302" noses hanging out unsupported cause me questions. I can see where a short-nosed Loverin design could be a real asset here. keep in mind, though--among the largest books in any library is the entitled "What I Don't Know About Paper Patching". I am the living, breathing antithesis of Paul Matthews.

[Any Cal.]

Al, you and me both! Maybe we should start a club or subforum or something... The good news is that if you understood how little I know after working with it for a bit, you would feel like a mental giant.

[fiberoptik]

How about pp'ing the 5mm. Craig? I have a mould, just don't have the rifle converted yet. =8

[303Guy]

There is a minimum limit to what can be paper patched. Anything smaller than your fingers gets difficult! Length is more of a consideration than diameter. I find a 120gr 25 to be about as small as I want to go. I did once patch a 224 boolit using paper sleeves I formed on a mandrel. Those only worked because I used strong wetted paper.

[longbow]

I started paper patching for .44 mag in a Marlin 1894 with microgroove rifling and contrary to general thoughts on cast boolit diameter, I got better results using a considerably undersize boolit patched with fairly thick paper. Not by design because I didn't know what I was doing!

I started with paper that was about 0.003" thick (drafting velum if memory serves). Figured since I needed about 0.432" then that minus 4 wraps at 0.012" leaves 0.420". My home made mould cast at 0.421" and when wrapped boolits ran about 0.432".

The barrel runs about 0.425" lands and 0.432" groove as best I can measure.

The shot quite well and certainly better than my Lyman 429421 which cast considerably undersize for my Marlin.

I just carried on with these getting pretty good results and no feeding problems. Then a Cast Boolits member asked me about larger boolit diameter and I did some reading and learning and found I was shooting undersize boolits. So I made another mould to cast at about bore diameter and used thin tracing paper patches since there just isn't a lot of room for patching in microgroove. Patched diameter was just over groove diameter. Patches confettied fine and no leading but accuracy was poor. Back to undersize boolits with thick patches and it worked fine.

Don't know why but that was my experience.

Now with my .303 I got the opposite result. When I tried using a 0.301" cast boolit made for my .308 it would not give decent accuracy. I had to go 0.304" in the 0.303" bore to get accuracy. That is what a guy would expect.

Not sure what is up with the .44 or if others have had similar experiences with microgroove. I figured the patch was just too thin and not enough "squish" room for it like with conventional rifling but I really don't know.

Longbow

[pdawg_shooter]

Microgroove rifling is tough on paper patches. It takes a strong paper and a good lube to survive the trip down the barrel. The lands and grooves are about equal so a lot of paper gets displaced.

[longbow]

Yeah, I guess it is like the guys shooting patched round ball in smoothbore where they say there is less room for the patch so they can't use the same patch/ball/bore relationship, you need a little smaller ball or thinner patch.

Microgroove isn't smoothbore but it isn't far off.

Longbow

[barrabruce]

It is said that the paper patch boolit has a higher velocity and lower pressure than a j-word for the same powder charge. It seems to be that way from my own observations. That makes me wonder whether more performance can be gained with the 30-30 over a j-word load, in which case paper patching for the 30-30 would be worthwhile. .

Nope not yet my me anyways.
With max load of 2208 and + a bit more for compression load with 150-160 pp bullets I get sticks
of unburnt powder in the barrel.

I haven't chrono-ed any factory muck but with faster 2206h I think I'm about equal.

I do shoot softer lead than I would with gas checks and have an easy time cleaning up after.
Apart from a sizer a bit of tin for a guage I don't need no special lubes and checks n' such.

Good heavens man what were you thinking?????

I might try some magnum primers to see if it helps any one day.

It goes BOOOOM pretty loud thou...(enough for people ask what the hell is that thing) so it should be good enough to kill something according to the louder it is the more powerfull it must be crowd.

[6.5 mike]

Longbow, I think you where getting close to filling the throat with the larger patches giving you a better fit.
Al, the loverin style boolit works very well. I've found one my best loads using one of BaBore's Kurtz 6.5 mold & patching them so that the patch tucks into a groove allowing the boolit to engrave just behind it. In this way the leading edge of the patch is protected upon firing. This is in a 6.5 tcu bbl, next step will be back to the 6.5 swede & see what happens. It also works with a 7x57 & the lee soup can, have not seen any damage to the patch while cycling them through the magazine, & I have tried it many times with a dummy round.

[sisterjim]

How heavy is the Kurtz? I assume you have to size it down some to patch. The diagram shows it casts at .270. I am trying to find THE boolit to shoot in my combo 6.5x57R/12 for wallaby. I have had 2" 100 yard accuracy with 16 grains of 2207. I cast 100gr. 266454 from 80:20 wwPB and quenched. They shot straight through the small game. I have 120 gr. 266455 the boolits hang in the mold. I will persevere and see if I can get better expansion with air cooling on this one. Boolits that aren't perfect disintegrate with hotter loads in fast twist rifling. I can maybe get the latter up to 18 grains 2207. Do you think the quenching of my alloy will alter the structural stability of the boolits? Another fancy is to patch a 25cal boolit up to .266. Only problem is the longer molds are all boreriders. I have cast some FN 25720 to PP once I whittled down my fingers. I figure on starting with about 25 grains 2206H and hope they hold together. Should I have quenched these 25 cal boolits? Any ideas on other options would be appreciated by a novice. Regards JIM