Flintlock powder question

[Slingshot]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

I am in the process of obtaining my first flintlock its a Lyman Great Plains in 50 Cal. that I picked up in a trade. I have percussion rifles and understand the loading procedures etc.

My question is that I mainly use 2F Goex BP for loading, can I use this in the flash pan also? or do I have to get a finer grain powder. How much do I use? just enough to fill the depression in the pan or is there a usual set amount?

It has a flint already in it, do these wear out fast? Do they crack? Should I carry an extra one in my range box?

Also, does Lyman sell a kit to change it from flint to percussion in case I decide to change it?

Thanks in advance,
Slingshot

[WyomingWhitetail]

i think 4f is most common for priming the flash pan. not sure i don't have a flintlock yet and only shot one a few times but looking at building my first one soon.

[gnoahhh]

Only way to find out is to try it. We used to routinely use ffg (from out of the the paper cartridge) to prime our flintlock musket pans. I carry a small priming horn filled with ffffg in my shooting bag, but rarely use it anymore, preferring to just prime with the fffg from the big horn. I can't tell the difference.

[waksupi]

For a .50, 3FFF will probably be much better for you. Less powder per charge, and will shoot cleaner. Forget priming with your main powder, get a pound of 4FFFF, it will last a long time, and regardless of what others may say, it IS faster, and more reliable ignition.



You do not want to fill the pan. A very small amount, as little as possible, with the majority of it being on the OUTSIDE edge of the pan, away from the vent. Just a thin trail should lead towards the vent. Filling the pan will cause hang fires, and make ignition much slower.


Order several dozen flints at a time, if you plan on shooting much. Always carry extras. Once you learn how to manage a flinter, you should be able to get 80-100 shots from a good English or French flint. Sawn flints will not last nearly as long. You will need to learn to sharpen them properly.

[felix]

We must use 4f priming powder in Arkansas during the summer, no matter the bore. Waksupi is correct, and use a faster propelling powder using the bigger bores for the same pressure as for the smaller bores. This is no different from smokeless loads in smokeless guns. ... felix

[Maven]

"It has a flint already in it, do these wear out fast? Do they crack? Should I carry an extra one in my range box? Also, does Lyman sell a kit to change it from flint to percussion in case I decide to change it? "


As Waksupi and gnoahhh indicated, you'd be better off with FFFg than FFg for your priming powder, but you can easily make FFFg or even FFFFg from FFg with a mortar and pestle. The trick is to use no more than 1 tablespoon of FFg, wear a face shield, and grind it SLOWLY and GENTLY. As for flints, your Lyman may be kind to flints, but it will spark better if you place a 1/8" thick wood shim under the flint so that it strikes the frizzen at the proper height. As for conversion kits, Lyman doesn't offer them, but if you can obtain a Lyman (Investarms) percussion lock and Investarms percussion barrel, you'll be able to switch them out in less than 5 mins. Btw, you can get flints from Track of the Wolf, et al. Here are some other sources:

http://www.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com/

http://www.find-it-usa.com/ericsrocks/index.html

http://www.huntingpa.info/wp-content...nuary-2010.pdf

[thunderthud]

slingshot,
if your lock is a good sparker just about any powder will work for prime. Muzzleblasts mag. had out an article about the prime on the outside of the pan, not true they used time lapse and it dont hold water a level prime charge is the best. 4f is basically used as a priming powder. for offhand work I doubt you can tell the lock time difference in powder granulations. A well built flintlock has a lock time of 1/500th of a second. the rifles I build will go off upside down. I got both English & French flints for me 80 shots is a stretch, yeah the gun goes off but lock time suffers greatly. knapping back the flint renews the edge however it does get shorter until there are diminishing returns. Sometimes the top jaw get a gnich in it where it strickes the frizzen before the flint. I'm pretty frugal with flints but when I'm hunting or in a match I care about the flint is gonna be new or close to it. Shooting offhand you want a fairly good rock imho.

[waksupi]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=45597

[Hang Fire]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

I am in the process of obtaining my first flintlock its a Lyman Great Plains in 50 Cal. that I picked up in a trade. I have percussion rifles and understand the loading procedures etc.

My question is that I mainly use 2F Goex BP for loading, can I use this in the flash pan also? or do I have to get a finer grain powder. How much do I use? just enough to fill the depression in the pan or is there a usual set amount?

It has a flint already in it, do these wear out fast? Do they crack? Should I carry an extra one in my range box?

Also, does Lyman sell a kit to change it from flint to percussion in case I decide to change it?

Thanks in advance,
Slingshot

One can use the 2F in the pan with no problems, at least has worked fine over several decades for me. Yes, carry spare flints, some may last like the Energizer bunny, others go south before the rifle can be zeroed. I have a wet diamond saw and prowl around rock shows looking for scrap precut Brazilian agate about 1/4" thick. For less than 20 bucks I can get enough to make hundreds of (non) flints that are some of the best long lasting sparkers ever.

[Hang Fire]

For a .50, 3FFF will probably be much better for you. Less powder per charge, and will shoot cleaner. Forget priming with your main powder, get a pound of 4FFFF, it will last a long time, and regardless of what others may say, it IS faster, and more reliable ignition.



You do not want to fill the pan. A very small amount, as little as possible, with the majority of it being on the OUTSIDE edge of the pan, away from the vent. Just a thin trail should lead towards the vent. Filling the pan will cause hang fires, and make ignition much slower.


Order several dozen flints at a time, if you plan on shooting much. Always carry extras. Once you learn how to manage a flinter, you should be able to get 80-100 shots from a good English or French flint. Sawn flints will not last nearly as long. You will need to learn to sharpen them properly.

Following is just my opine.

A shooter will never discern if 4F gives a faster ignition. Use only enough powder in pan to fill up just below the touchhole. As for placing powder to outside edge of pan, tilting the piece even slightly to one side or the other, up or down, vibration from taking couple steps or shouldering the piece, so much for the meticulous priming placement.

Sawed agate sparkers are easily sharpened with just a cheap small diamond lap.

Of course I am only speaking from about fifty years of mucking about with rocklocks .http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/Index.html

[thunderthud]

42 years of muzzleloading, 37 yrs. makin' rock guns. my observations from years in offhand matches with patched rb & flintlock. no disrespect meant to anyone. I want to pass along info so the "art" isnt lost.

[Maven]

"Muzzleblasts mag. had out an article about the prime on the outside of the pan, not true they used time lapse and it dont hold water a level prime charge is the best." ...thunderthud


All, thunderthud was referring to Larry Pletcher's research. If you're interested in his methodology & findings, take a look at this: http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featur...-vent-test.php

[waksupi]

I am rather surprised that some can not detect the difference in the different powder granulations for ignition. Yes, they will all work, but I can definitely tell that 4FFFF is faster, with the fire staying closer to the pan. The larger the grains, the larger the fire bloom, and more dispersed the heat.

[Blammer]

4F for the pan is the only way to fly.

I use 2F as the main charge and it does fine for me.

Yes get extra flints and carry them with you, and carry the tool you need to secure the flint to the hammer, AND carry an extra piece of cloth to help secure the flint in the hammer.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have learned a lot of hard lessons shooting flint shotgun, one of the lessons is to use priming powder to prime. Varaition in ignition time is a lost target with a flint shotgun. I have used including fg in the pan of my Brown Bess and it will light it, but that lock would possibly light damp coal. I do know it will fire about 10 % of the time with no priming and a sharp flint.

Make your life easier and devolop a system to loading and priming, be anal about it and your shooting will improve for it.

[HEAD0001]

In my flint locks I shoot 3F in the barrel. In the pan I shoot either Swiss Null-B or 7F. Tom.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

An experienced offhand shooter is exactly the one who KNOWS that priming ignition does indeed impact accuracy.

BvT

[NickSS]

The only flinter I own at present is a Brown Bess musket. The touch hole is so large that it self primes when I dump powder down the barrel. I mostly use light charges of FFFG and they work really fine.

[excess650]

I'm a believer in 4F for the pan, but 3f will work in a pinch. I don't think its by accident that EVERYONE has indicated 2f or 3f in the barrel without mentioning ANY of the substitutes.

My own experience has me believing that the pan should be at least 3/4 full, but NOT blocking the vent. Covering the vent seems to cause delayed ignition and increases fouling in that area.

I have a Chambers round faced English lock on one of my rifles, and its pan holds (literally) 4 times as much powder as my Dixie Tn Mtn rifle. I fill the pan on the Dixie, but ony about 3/4 on the English lock. The large Siler on my early Lancaster style rifle also likes the pan nearly full.

[thunderthud]

a dull flint & you got hang time. I use 4f or 7f. I only shoot offhand, I'd rather have a sharp flint & 3f for prime than a dull iffy flint & 4f the difference between 3 & 4f is in miliseconds.