Dooms day rifles.

[cajun shooter]

I will first say that a well put together and taken care of AR system does not need to be run wet and if done may led to a stoppage because of trash in the system from over lubing. I would take a 22LR if given one choice. It will kill even the small wrens and not tear up what meat is there. People fail to understand that a well trained person can survive with this rifle as he will be able to take any weapon needed. Either from those who have died or come to close to the shelter. A 22LR can as seen on recent TV and from personal experience kill a 12 ft alligator which is loaded with plenty of good eating. It will also kill all those peter cottontails with little noise or meat damage. I would want a good supply of bleach or iodine as opposed to another gun.

[rays308]

With all due respect and I do mean I have respect for everyone here. Your creating a fantasy that you want to beleive with rules you want.

Your saying you got the whole town to agree to how you want it to be. ok. What end of the world scenerio are we talking? Are there refugees from other places? One, two people or hordes?

Without knowing the size of your town ask yourself these questions.

How much ground do we need to sustain the town.
Do you have the few dozen men it would take to defend the Parimeter you need to 24/7? Will they do it? Who will it be?

Can we farm and defend it?

Dead animals in rivers and ditches up stream mean typhus and other diseases. Drink up.
You may get to watch your children or grand kids suffer from these diseases.

We won't care if you have roads. We don't have a car. The bridges all fell in or were washed away anyhow. In fact boats will likely be a preffered way of travel. Still extremely dangerous.

We haven't even gotten to those who are unable to help either due to injury, illness or the elderly. Look around your town and pick out these folks. Maybe you have some as family members. What happens to them? Who decides? Will your Posse inforce these rules? Are they still a Posse then?

Your government has a plan. They dug themselves a hole and have a list of people allowed in it. What did they plan for you?

What kind of leadership springs up from hard times? Its happened, look back.
I wish My grandfathers and great uncles were still here to be able to reply to these threads.
They were in the thick of it in Europe. There were people there who were deciding life and death and they didn't care if it was your mother, wife or child.


I wish folks would think before starting these horrible threads. The best you will have it will be the first few days after the disaster. It goes downhill fast from there.

If we want to talk doomsday, lets be realistic. Your either in the disaster zone or in a spot the survivors and refugeees are heading for. Are you just going to shoot them as they pick your tomatoes to eat because they are hungry? If so, the people in the city are animals?

I'm truly sorry. Its NOT going to go your way or mine. It will be much, MUCH worse.

All bets are off all over.

I probably should have stayed away from this thread.

[robertbank]

Rays having been raised on a steady diet of Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, King of the Yukon and having followed David Thompson, Simon Fraser and Mackenzie as they crossed Canada I know how thrilling, exciting and romantic early life was for our pioneers. These threads take us back to those times and we all know we could survive in the new wilderness with trusty old Betsy by our side. Just give us a set of buckskins, a trusty blaster and half of the survival/tactical gear advertized in the latest survivalist magazine and life will be good again....just like on TV.

Take Care

Bob
ps Probably easier to give your children the best education you can, work within your community and vote regularly and forget the doomsday stuff.

[rays308]

Very sorry, I wasn't getting that picture from the thread. I was seeing Mad Max not Davie Crocket.


I grew up in the woods. I've spent many a night in deep woods looking up at the stars. All of my family is KY WV. They tell me when I go to visit, they never see me while I'm there.
I've fished and set snares for small game for a month one time and loved every minute of it.
I turtled and caught frogs with a hook that I tied a ribbon to then dangled it in front of them like a bug. When I came back to the refrigerator I had lost 20lbs.

Now its a couple of days at a time but, with kids and grand kids.

Educate them? You better beleive it. They can all skin anything walking or swimming.

We get together every year usually from jan through Mar to butcher.

They can strip a hog to render lard to.


I carry my 30yr old savage 24 223/20ga with a 7in Redhawk on my belt.


My apologies for my mis-understanding.

[eglidrider]

I have a Hi-Point carbine in 9mm and a 9mm semi-auto carry gun, a SMLE in .303 British that I've owned more than 40 years, (2) 22LR rifles, one semi-auto and one bolt action w/ a scope, a 7-shot revolver w/ a 4" bbl in .357 mag / .38 Splc and I'm about to order a lever gun in .357/.38. The odd ball (for now) is my 1911 in .45 ACP (yes, I could've bought it in 9mm but it just ain't the same "grin factor"). Sounds like the perfect opportunity to add another Hi-Point carbine in .45.

[exile]

Think about this, nastier things have happened when governments and infrastructures function than when they don't.

Don't believe me, ask German Jews, Turkish Armenians, Vietnamese Catholics, Russian farmers, etc.,. The Chinese govt., (our "trading partners", NOT) execute 450 Christians every day of the week, 24/7, and those that are not dead, probably wish they were.

Whose next? Those who oppose the "green agenda", code for, those who worship God rather than the earth.

Not that I am an expert on this stuff, but from reading Matthew Bracken's books, a good .38 revolver might be worth more than a rifle when the poop hits the fan. The powers that be might just shoot anyone with a rifle on sight.

exile

[M-Tecs]

With all due respect and I do mean I have respect for everyone here. Your creating a fantasy that you want to beleive with rules you want.

Your saying you got the whole town to agree to how you want it to be. ok. What end of the world scenerio are we talking? Are there refugees from other places? One, two people or hordes?

Without knowing the size of your town ask yourself these questions.

How much ground do we need to sustain the town.
Do you have the few dozen men it would take to defend the Parimeter you need to 24/7? Will they do it? Who will it be?

Can we farm and defend it?

Dead animals in rivers and ditches up stream mean typhus and other diseases. Drink up.
You may get to watch your children or grand kids suffer from these diseases.

We won't care if you have roads. We don't have a car. The bridges all fell in or were washed away anyhow. In fact boats will likely be a preffered way of travel. Still extremely dangerous.

We haven't even gotten to those who are unable to help either due to injury, illness or the elderly. Look around your town and pick out these folks. Maybe you have some as family members. What happens to them? Who decides? Will your Posse inforce these rules? Are they still a Posse then?

Your government has a plan. They dug themselves a hole and have a list of people allowed in it. What did they plan for you?

What kind of leadership springs up from hard times? Its happened, look back.
I wish My grandfathers and great uncles were still here to be able to reply to these threads.
They were in the thick of it in Europe. There were people there who were deciding life and death and they didn't care if it was your mother, wife or child.


I wish folks would think before starting these horrible threads. The best you will have it will be the first few days after the disaster. It goes downhill fast from there.

If we want to talk doomsday, lets be realistic. Your either in the disaster zone or in a spot the survivors and refugeees are heading for. Are you just going to shoot them as they pick your tomatoes to eat because they are hungry? If so, the people in the city are animals?

I'm truly sorry. Its NOT going to go your way or mine. It will be much, MUCH worse.

All bets are off all over.

I probably should have stayed away from this thread.

Very well stated. In a large scale disaster anyone that tries looting and plundering won’t last long. After that is will only be death, disease, hunger, thirst.

The one scenario that scares the stuffing out of me is a volcanic type winter that last three to five years. In that scenario all infrastructure stays intact but the world starves. In that scenario I believe we would see large scale battles between the haves and have not’s

[rays308]

I remember mount St Helens fallout when I was in High School. In Ohio. Very light dusting on anything left sitting for a few days. Some discoloration to the sky on a couple of sunny days.

I was too young to think about how it effected crops and livestock.

Anyone remember what food prices did the following couple of years?

I know the economy was already in shambles then also.

[robertbank]

Think about this, nastier things have happened when governments and infrastructures function than when they don't.

Don't believe me, ask German Jews, Turkish Armenians, Vietnamese Catholics, Russian farmers, etc.,. The Chinese govt., (our "trading partners", NOT) execute 450 Christians every day of the week, 24/7, and those that are not dead, probably wish they were.

Whose next? Those who oppose the "green agenda", code for, those who worship God rather than the earth.

Not that I am an expert on this stuff, but from reading Matthew Bracken's books, a good .38 revolver might be worth more than a rifle when the poop hits the fan. The powers that be might just shoot anyone with a rifle on sight.

exile

I don't want to be argumentive but look at things that happen when civil authority disappears. Remember the Watts riots in LA. How about New Orleans during the hurricane. The reality is we live in a civil society under the rule of Law. Without the latter our societies break down pretty quickly. Your assumption regarding "the powers that be" is somewhat flawed unless you believe every US man and woman in uniform is a closet anarchist who would follow orders to shoot their neighbours. I find such an assumption absurd in the extreme. I suspect you might, more likely, get shot by a stranger than you would be by your own soldiers.

I guess I have more confidence in our men and women who serve, be that military or police than some.

Take care

Bob

[Hamish]

Funny thing, just this subject is the reason I'm gearing up to buy my first AR. I've thought for a long time that the ultimate survival EOTW would be a semi .22 rifle, but a scoped/red dotted Ruger Mark III would seem like the ultimate hideout/headshot/cat shooter. The point about anyone carrying a visible arm getting whacked would be sensible.

And yes, we are talking about the most scary thing you can imagine, popping a round in the eye of the kid you watched last week at the high school basketball game because he and the team are busting down the door to take what you got.

We have car insurance in case we get in a wreck. Boy Scout motto?? I don't *have* to have ice cream every week, and the young leaves of the dandelion are quite good if you pick them before they go from smoothly rounded to sawtooth.

Beans, potassium permangenate, and all the eley's I can carry sounds pretty good.

[mroliver77]

Jay, is that my tele-vision or my tele-phone. I could loose either of those but my WWW now that will hurt. And you bring up valid points to the thread but his quesion was about his gun not his water or food - but now you have every boolit caster in OH ready to come visit your house at the end of world for all that lead. ;^)

He he, there are about six boolit casters in Ohio and I am one of them.
Sorry about thread drift but it amuses me every time I see these threads. Any gun with plenty of ammo and the ability to use it will do.

Again,(here I go again) lack of food, water, meds, heat etc will probably kill you before the roving mobs will.

If it don't stop raining soon NW OH will not be contributing much to the pantry this year!
Jay

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've never owned a rossi levergun so I am not sure of their durability, If I had to pick a levergun for this purpose I would go Win 94/Marlin 336 with a Peep sight. I already have a M94 in 30-30. If I had to pick pistol caliber gun I would go win/Marlin 94 as well. I do like the looks of those Pumas and was thinking about getting 16" 45 colt to play with.

Dan

Rossi 92s are as tough as nails. Plain but hell for stout. They even make a 454 Casull so the strength is there. The gun in my avitar is a Rossi 92 in 38/357. Cheapest gun (apart from a few rough milsups) I have ever bought. I have fed thousands of bullets through it. I gave it to my son to use at the range. I gave him a full ammo tin full of 38 loads. I got busy as I am the secretary of the pistol club and a problem came up. I left him with the rostered range officer. About two hours later, he came up to me with the tin full of brass and asked if I had any more ammo! lol. I told him he just shot of about 6 months supply.

If it was a survival scene, I'd be picking a rifle in 223 and a pistol in 9mm, with a 22LR slide and barrel for hunting small game. A 7600 Police in 223 would be a good choice if you don't like an AR. The mags are interchangeable with the ARs, so if you could scrounge or sway mil ammo and mags, you would be good to go. I'd also have a humungous stock of 22 ammo which would be excellent to trade for things you need.

Thing is, if it really was doomsday, we'de all be toast by the end of the day!

[superior]

I've always considered the 22lr to be my first choice is a survival weapon, however, I'm thinking more and more about the practicality of a good flintlock. If one could stockpile powder and lead, a good chunk of flint and a mold would round out the package. I would not need primers or brass. It wouldn't serve well as a cornfield commando battle rifle, but if I were in a wilderness survival situation,
I'm confident that I could feed myself. (at least)

[44 flattop]

You're right. I lived offgrid for several years with no running water and limited (home-generated) electricity. I had a propane fridge but it used too much gas, so I gave up on that pretty quickly and learned to live without it. Killed plenty of deer and small game, fished and gardened. Canned or smoked what I needed to preserve.
I still have the ability to do all of the above, but I'm not offgrid anymore.

I'm surprised! I'm offgrid and make my own electricity and use propane. On average per month, using a 21cu ft propane refrig/freezer, a tankless water heater and a propane kitchen range I am using 16 gallons per month. Because of that I am going to swap over to propane for my Honda EU3000i generator too. My gas provider complains I don't use enough propane to warrant my 500gal tank.

If things go bad I'm pretty well set, at least for the short term, up to 24 months. Then I'll have to rely on my 24v freezer and a Bison handpump to get water out of my well without using extra power from my system.

As to the original question, I think a levergun would be a great 'Doomsday' rifle AS LONG as a fellow is in the right area. By that I mean the country. Not 'urban' country, but out along the edges of the woods. I reckon the city folks better have their AK's, AR's and such but for woods people I can't imagine a better rifle for feeding the family than a good .30-30, .44 or .357. Better yet, if there were a 22LR rifle too, I bet that would secure most of the meat a family would eat.

My own choice revolves around the .44 caliber in leverguns and both SA and DA revolvers.

44

[Me not you]

I've been working with a Mini-30 for a while. I've grown quite fond of the little rifle. I do not have access to a benchrest, and mainly shoot offhand due to the danged ticks. I use 25 yard pistol targets (4 inch black) at around 100 yards and do a decent job of putting most of the hits into it. The rest are an inch or so away. Where I live, nearly all shots will be less than 100 yards due to rough country and heavy underbrush. Power-wise it hits as hard at 100 yards (with 150gr spitzers) as the .308 Win at 300 yards or so. Once the ground is snow-covered I can do some prone work. So far it really seems to like the LEE 312-155-2R. These rifles seem to have gotten a "bum rap" in my experience. Once you get away from a benchrest and do some "field" shooting, the tack drivers lose a lot of their advantage.

[BoolitSchuuter]

This thread is a little dated, but got me thinking. It seems there are two lines of thought running in this thread. One being the best or most likely survival rifle. The other being the best defense option.
Frankly, I do not believe one rifle could do both well. Please remember this is MY opinion.
My option for survival would be the .22 caliber bolt action rifle. For a survival rifle, you want it simple. The KISS principle applies here. A skilled woodsman (and I don't claim to be one) can take anything from rats to reindeer with one. Even the cheapest ammo is plentiful, reasonably accurate and easy to find. The disadvantage is that once it's gone it's gone.
Next option would be a flintlock. If bad turned to worse, you could make your own powder and smelt your own lead.
The best defense weapon is the one using the most common caliber at the time. That would be the holy trinity of american marksmanship; the .223, .308, and the 30-06. This ammo is stocked in quantity in every gun shop, gas station and Walmart in the country. Here again, the KISS principle applies.
My personal choices are;
Mossberg M44 US
S&W M&P 15
Polytech M14/S (rebuilt with all USGI parts - by me)
Savage Tactical FLP110 in .308
SA M1 Garand
These are the ones I keep a supply of ammo for. I have others, various shotguns included. The ones listed are my SHTF go to guns.
Where I live, water and shelter is not a problem. There are sufficient like minded people in this lake development to provide for the security of the community. We are far enough off of a major North south route that we probably would be bypassed by any refugee migration. Wild game and fish are plentiful. If this community could maintain its moral and social integrity, our chances would be pretty good I think.

Just my opinion. It is worth what you paid for it.

[gundownunder]

I would start with my 357 rifle / revolver combo and take it from there.
If some moron comes at me with an AR or AK and doesn't know how to use it I just might trade up to an AR or AK, depends on whether he's carrying enough ammo to make the trade worthwhile.

Seriously though, when the smelly stuff hits the rotating device the best scroungers will probably survive the longest. You're gonna have to be prepared to dine on sauteed cockroach and ditch water sooner or later and if you've got a bag full of cockroaches you're gonna have to be prepared to kill to keep it.

Somebody else's wife and kids? sure, bring them along, they'll taste a heck of a lot better than cockroach

[Matthew 25]

I bet after the first 6 months I'd be able to trade 20 tablets of Metronidazole for a 50 Barrett. This is the treatment for Giardia (and many other infections).

My background is medicine and epidemiology so I tend to think disease is the number one long-term threat, along with food supply.

I do think a lever gun is adequate. I really used to think it best until I shot an AR and a SOCOM. Good grief those things are incredible. I think you should get what you think is right, practice a ton, and keep a butt-load of ammo for it. If you decide an AR is better than a lever-action 45LC, then buy one of those later, simple solution.
I pray our preparations are for naught.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hey: Nobody mentioned the Ruger Scout? It was designed specifically for this scenerio.

Soon there will be a .223 version which satisfy all the .223 guys (myself included)

I have a Mini 14 too, and I would feel good with it as it is reliable and I can carry a bunch of ammo.

I have a variety of pistols , Glocks, my .44's, don't have a .22 pistol right now.

But I think if push came to shove and I could have only one it would be my Mauser .22. It is a single shot bolt action, it was made in 1929 and still will be running if 2529. I can hit a rabbit at 100 yards over a rest any time. Probably the most reliable gun I own.

Like the guy said above, if it really happens, you won't be able to choose. You will take what you can get and probably be damn lucky to get anything.

Just remember "any gun will do, if you will do!"


Being completely unarmed would be really scary, so I'd recommend learning archery too. You can make a stick and a string pretty easily. Better than a club.

At the end of the day, your best weapon will be your brains, assuming you have any to begin with.

Just hope nobody finds out, if you don't.

Randy

Please take notice of my saying at the bottom of all my posts. If this scenerio ever comes to pass, survival will be all about that saying. hint hint.

[greywuuf]

Atlatl is far easier to make than a Bow and you look pretty primitive trying to use one, but hey it gives the neighbors something to laugh at.