Why Knock Lee Equipment??

[Char-Gar]

Blue Horse.. I don't know about the guy in the 90's who won a match with his Lee Loader, as I have never heard that story. Quite often, the deciding factor in a match is the nut behind the butt plate and not the loading equipment. However, if the nuts are equal, then the equipment may decide the issue. It is because of the the latter scenario, we choose our equipment, with an eye toward quality.

I assume that there are or may be folks reading these threads, who are or may become shooters, who need to know the difference between budget equipment and higher quality equipment. Bandwagons are not for everybody.

One never knows. Do one? - Fats Waller

[klcarroll]

In my shop I have a 40 year old Logan Lathe: …….I also have some other pieces of machinery that can only be described as “Chi-Com ****”!

I was EXCEEDINGLY fortunate when I found the Logan, because it was one of those “I’m cleaning out my Dad’s estate, and I need this thing out of here!” kinda deals. It’s a fine piece of equipment; …Well designed, well made, and every handwheel turns like a micrometer! Every time I use it, I reflect on what a pleasure it is to use a fine piece of machinery.

I bought the “Commie” stuff because I couldn’t find an American Made piece of equipment that was within reach of my budget; ….and I needed the function the Chi-Com equipment provided. Every time I use one of those pieces of equipment, I am glad that I was able to buy SOMETHING affordable that will, with a little care, get the job done!

I have to believe that the same logic probably applies to reloading equipment.

Kent

[Char-Gar]

KL... I have a 1947 Logan Lathe in my shop with the same history and I feel the same way about it as you do yours.

[1bluehorse]

Charger, we're on the same page.....

[Recluse]

It amuses me when people feel like they can't reach down and grab their Johnson and take a leak and be a man if they don't find a way to bash Lee reloading equipment now and then.

It's like they're afraid if they don't join the Lee bashing bandwagon, their little wee-wee may fall off if they give it one shake too many at the commode.

My reloading bench and casting table has a lot of different colors. I guess I could call it a Reverend Jesse Jackson setup since it's a rainbow of (brand) colors. Early on, I started with a lot of red and green stuff. The green stuff was hand-me-down from my daddy, and the red stuff was what I could afford at the time.

I guess it all worked. I have an attic full of trophies and plaques won in IPSC and PPC and various law enforcement competitions and matches. The reliability of ammo in those kind of matches seems to be kinda important, you know?

I have traded and sold Hornady, Lyman and RCBS powder hoppers because my little $20 Lee powder measure is simply the most accurate and consistent powder measure I've ever used. Dillon, believe it or not, was the most inconsistent of all I've used in the past thirty years that I've been on my own in this reloading stuff. My daddy swears by his RCBS powder measure, and I will too--it's uncannily accurate and consistent. He's bought two more in the fifty-plus years he's been reloading and sold them both because they're not as good as his original.

I gave up my RCBS Rockchucker press for a Lee Classic Cast single-stage press. Sorry, but the Lee Classic Cast is simply built better and stouter and has a better pull. I gave the Rockchucker to a returning vet who's learning to reload, so it went to a good home.

Dies? I like them all, pretty much, except that I never got along with Lyman dies for some reason. Progressive presses? I have a Pro1000 that cranked out an endless waterfall of ammo for those IPSC and LE matches, but I have to fiddle with the press more than I care for. Nothing, in my opinion, beats a Dillon 550B, but that press costs three to four times as much as the Pro1000.

Precision shooting? I'm not a BR shooter and have never had any interest in BR shooting. But I can get sub MOA at 100 yards easily and all day long with 30-06 ammo I produce using my almost thirty year old Lee Challenger single stage press, old Lee dies and an "inferior" Savage 110B rifle with an "inferior" Japanese made Tasco scope.

Take that same combo out to 200 yards, and we can still keep it within an inch.

SOMETHING has to be wrong with that picture. . . I've been told only customized Winchester pre-62 Model 70s should be able to do that and only when handloaded using dies that cost five-figures each with special powders blended by the oracles of explosives. . .

My attitude is that if the manufacturers are in our industry, then we support them--not slam them. Slamming Lee or any other brand doesn't make your own shooting any more accurate, by the way.

[Char-Gar]

"It amuses me when people feel like they can't reach down and grab their Johnson and take a leak and be a man if they don't find a way to bash Lee reloading equipment now and then.

It's like they're afraid if they don't join the Lee bashing bandwagon, their little wee-wee may fall off if they give it one shake too many at the commode."... Recluse

Recluse... That is not only crude, rude and dismissive of the opinions of others, it is also a display of arrogance and ignorance. It just proves than not every one that lives in Texas, has substance and class. Try and ratchet up your posts to at least the 8th grade level.

[Recluse]

Recluse... That is not only crude, rude and dismissive of the opinions of others, it is also a display of arrogance and ignorance. It just proves than not every one that lives in Texas, has substance and class. Try and ratchet up your posts to at least the 8th grade level.

Uh, no Chargar, it is precisely the truth as you yourself often lead the biggest "bash-brigades" this forum has ever seen, going back to when it converted over from the Shooters.com days to Cast Boolits and then started growing.

You had a cozy club here and as new folks with different ideas and experience came along, you and a few others began having big problems with it.

I have had you on "Ignore" countless times because of your bash-brigades and your lamenting to new posters about "all the hot air that emanates around here" etc etc. One of the lube threads was a very good example of your holiness. . .

Sorry, pal, but we ain't living in 1950 anymore where everything was a buck or two and there was only one or two ways to doing things. New ways, new ideas, new brands and a lot more people getting into this reloading and casting, and they have their own ideas and ways and reasons for choosing the brands they do and the methods they do.

You wanna keep bashing other people's ideas because they're not what "you have done for 50 years," be my guest. Even Lyman is updating their manuals these days. . .

[Char-Gar]

Put me on ignore again and make both our lives better.

For the record, this thread started on March 11 of this year. It was November 11, eight months into the thread and 194 posts before I had anything negative to say about Lee. You will have a hard time, making me the leader of the Lee bashing cabal. Quite a number of others expressed their negative opinions about Lee before me.

You are not only rude and hostile, but you don't have your facts straight.

[Geraldo]

Ahhh, the thread that wouldn't die....what the heck....: (except that they all are pretty much alike in design, well, not the funny one that comes over the top)

It's all in fun til somebody loses and eye, or bashes my beloved Forster Co-ax...

You wanna bash Lee, go right ahead, but don't confuse any other red equipment with it.

If not, well, at least you don't know where I live..

Like the credit card commercial says, "Son, don't think I'm too old to find you..."

[klcarroll]

Geez! …..What a feeling of Déjà Vu!!!

Some of these posts remind me of a couple of Ham Radio sites that I no longer frequent.

On those sites there was a faction that held that it took no less than forty years to become “A REAL Ham”; ……And that you were nothing but a “Scummy CBer” if you weren’t into HF Ops, and/or couldn’t key 30 words per minute with your left big toe!

…….And the atmosphere of hostility chased away new users in droves!

………These days, with OUR OWN GOVERNMENT trying to do away with us, I would think it appropriate for shooters to at least treat other shooters as members of the same team!

Kent

[Char-Gar]

kl... I believe that folks can disagree without being disagreeable. Whatever the topic there is always a very wide array of opinions and beliefs. Folks should feel free to express opinions without personal attacks. Folks may never agree and hold their original opinion at the end of the day. But, there is a basic respect that one person should give another.

On these boards, like life, some folks just take a dislike to another, and then filter everything through that dislike until everything becomes distorted. Who knows what the source of original dislike stems from? Most often, it is from some unresolved conflict in life and the other person reminds them of that conflict and all of the hostility gets transferred to that individual. They store it up and unload it all at once, out of the clear blue sky.

Like you, I believe that shooters have a common cause and that should outweigh any differences over equipment and difference of opinion. But, all to often, human nature will prevail, even when it should not.

I am as guilty as the next fellow about not backing away when attacked. Maybe some day, I will grow up enough to just blow it off. But, I come from generations of Texas ranchers, lawyers, judges and peace officers and back up, just was not in their nature. I fear it isn't in mine either.

[jcwit]

Generations of texas lawyers, OMG!

[Char-Gar]

There have also been a sprinkle of Texas Rangers, ranchers and preachers to add spice to the mix and help water down the lawyer DNA.

[jcwit]

Why bash Lee Equipment? I have no idea.

I like my Lee products that I own and use.
I like my RCBS products that I own and use.
I like my Lyman products that I own and use.
I like my Hornady products that I own and use.
I like my Redding products that I own and use.
I like my Sinclare products that I own and use.
I like my Wilson products that I own and use.
I like my K & M products that I own and use.

Heck I even like the few things I made for myself and use.

Wait I forgot, I even like the few dillion products that I have.

Whats the problem with any of them?

[pmeisel]

I feel like I should say something bad about Texas, just to give Chargar and Recluse something to agree about

[Doc_Stihl]

Was just browsing the reviews on midway about the lee perfect powder measure. Someone rated it 1 star because it consistantly dropped charges that were off by .1 Grain. I guess that's a reason to knock something...LOL. .1 Grain. Does anyone here drop from a measure and expect less than .1 GR accuracy?

[WILCO]

Click on Products/Classic Cast Press and scroll down about halfway..pics railroad tracks being melted down into Classic Presses

Learned something new today.
Thanks for the directions!

[HighRoad]

Was just browsing the reviews on midway about the lee perfect powder measure. Someone rated it 1 star because it consistantly dropped charges that were off by .1 Grain. I guess that's a reason to knock something...LOL. .1 Grain. Does anyone here drop from a measure and expect less than .1 GR accuracy?

For a newbie, this brings up a question. I've got the Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure. I set it up using the Adjustable Charge Bar to throw 3.5gr of Bullseye for 38 special .158LC. When I periodically check my weight, it will run anywhere from 3.4gr to 3.7gr. Is that a problem? The 3.7gr is actually in the .38sp+P range.

To stay with the original theme of this thread; I bought the Lee Safety Powder Scale with my Lee Classic Turret Press. For me this scale performed terribly. I returned it for a $55 Dillon which seems to work pretty good. And I do like my Classic Turret Press.

[Recluse]

For a newbie, this brings up a question. I've got the Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure. I set it up using the Adjustable Charge Bar to throw 3.5gr of Bullseye for 38 special .158LC. When I periodically check my weight, it will run anywhere from 3.4gr to 3.7gr. Is that a problem? The 3.7gr is actually in the .38sp+P range.

I bought that adjustable charge bar a few years ago and quickly found out it was a huge waste of money. I could not get it to throw a consistent charge no matter what I did.

Worse yet, it threw more squib loads (non-charge/low-charge) than I'd ever had before in the previous thirty years.

To stay with the original theme of this thread; I bought the Lee Safety Powder Scale with my Lee Classic Turret Press. For me this scale performed terribly. I returned it for a $55 Dillon which seems to work pretty good. And I do like my Classic Turret Press.

The Lee Safety Scale is actually one of the most accurate scales you can buy, bar none.

It's also one of the most aggravating scales to use, bar none.

Like you, I went to a different brand scale, in my case, RCBS. However, when I'm doing load development and for the first few loads of anything rifle/long gun, I use the Lee scale to back up the RCBS.

The vernier scale on the Lee is too much of a PITA for me to deal with on a consistent charge by charge basis. However, again, it is an extremely accurate scale and I use it as backup for all load development work.

[Char-Gar]

Doc and High Road.. 1/10 grain plus or minus won't make a bit of difference in 95% of loads for either rifle or pistol. But when you start using small charges of fast pistol powder like Bullseye or 231, plus or minus 1/10 grain can make a difference. A+- .1 is a 40 grain charge is allot different from a +-.1 charge in a 2.7 grain charge. As with most things in reloading, it all depends.

A powder measure that threw charges between 3.4 and 3.7 grains of Bullseye would not be acceptable to me. My old Hollywood will throw charges of Bullseye so consistent the difference if any can not be measured on my RCBS scale. There are many other scales such as the "Redding and Belding and Mull that will do the same. It should be noted that with any powder measure, the consistency is often related to how it is operated.