350 Legend and Cast Boolits

[mehavey]

Brewer, do you have a chronograph?

[brewer12345]

Brewer, do you have a chronograph?

Don't but can borrow one. Mostly I try to use published data, stay in the range as long as there is no pressure signs, and match the load to what I want it to do. I will need to test 6.5 grendel rounds so I can dope for drop and wind at long range, so will have to chrono some stuff this summer.

[P Flados]

P Flados, I'd love some data for 2400 and a 210 grain version of the RCBS 35-200 bullet. I'd be shooting out of a 16 inch bolt gun.

Anyone have a good COAL for the RCBS 200 in the 350L?

[P Flados]

I went ahead and plugged in the Lee 200, changed the weight to 210, put in 2.10" for COAL and 16" for barrel. I then set up for a ladder table output as shown below.

I only found a few posted 350L loads out on the web with 2400 and a 200+ bullet. Max charge I found was 17 gr, so be very careful working up loads using the data below. The bottom half of the table should be considered "suspect".

I know you have both a Bolt gun and an AR. Definitely work up in the bolt gun first, then if you want to try some in the AR, drop down from where you stopped in the bolt gun and work back up.

Cartridge          : .350 Legend
Bullet             : .358, 200, LEE C358-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 25.604 grain H2O = 1.662 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.100 inch = 53.34 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-11.1   71    16.00   1647    1264   33972   3480    100.0    1.197
-10.0   72    16.20   1662    1288   35014   3506    100.0    1.182
-08.9   73    16.40   1677    1312   36080   3532    100.0    1.167
-07.8   74    16.60   1693    1336   37171   3556    100.0    1.152
-06.7   75    16.80   1708    1360   38287   3581    100.0    1.138
-05.6   76    17.00   1723    1384   39429   3606    100.0    1.124
-04.4   77    17.20   1737    1408   40597   3630    100.0    1.111
-03.3   78    17.40   1752    1432   41793   3654    100.0    1.097
-02.2   79    17.60   1767    1456   43016   3678    100.0    1.084
-01.1   79    17.80   1781    1480   44267   3703    100.0    1.072
+00.0   80    18.00   1796    1504   45547   3726    100.0    1.059
+01.1   81    18.20   1810    1528   46856   3750    100.0    1.047  ! Near Maximum !
+02.2   82    18.40   1824    1552   48196   3774    100.0    1.035  ! Near Maximum !
+03.3   83    18.60   1838    1576   49567   3797    100.0    1.024  ! Near Maximum !
+04.4   84    18.80   1852    1600   50969   3821    100.0    1.012  ! Near Maximum !
+05.6   85    19.00   1866    1624   52405   3844    100.0    1.001  ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     80    18.00   1836    1572   52928   3592    100.0    1.006  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     80    18.00   1733    1400   38143   3901     99.6    1.133

[brewer12345]

I went ahead and plugged in the Lee 200, changed the weight to 210 and set up for a ladder table output.

Cartridge          : .350 Legend
Bullet             : .358, 200, LEE C358-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 25.604 grain H2O = 1.662 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.100 inch = 53.34 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-05.6   76    17.00   1723    1384   39429   3606    100.0    1.124
-04.4   77    17.20   1737    1408   40597   3630    100.0    1.111
-03.3   78    17.40   1752    1432   41793   3654    100.0    1.097
-02.2   79    17.60   1767    1456   43016   3678    100.0    1.084
-01.1   79    17.80   1781    1480   44267   3703    100.0    1.072
+00.0   80    18.00   1796    1504   45547   3726    100.0    1.059
+01.1   81    18.20   1810    1528   46856   3750    100.0    1.047  ! Near Maximum !
+02.2   82    18.40   1824    1552   48196   3774    100.0    1.035  ! Near Maximum !
+03.3   83    18.60   1838    1576   49567   3797    100.0    1.024  ! Near Maximum !
+04.4   84    18.80   1852    1600   50969   3821    100.0    1.012  ! Near Maximum !
+05.6   85    19.00   1866    1624   52405   3844    100.0    1.001  ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     80    18.00   1836    1572   52928   3592    100.0    1.006  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     80    18.00   1733    1400   38143   3901     99.6    1.133

Much obliged. I guess it would make sense to start at 16 grains and work up to 18 or so.

[P Flados]

I tossed in the table and then and went back and edited some more text in and added in some lower charges. Go back and look at the text now at the top of the post.

[Mal Paso]

Anyone have a good COAL for the RCBS 200 in the 350L?

2.140"

Going to try the RCBS 200 again today but with sights. LOL

[P Flados]

Okay, it took me a while, but I knew that there was some better 2400 data out for the 350L. Tomme Boy posted a screenshot of 165 / 170 gr Hornady data for the 350 at post 582 of this thread. The screenshot is fuzzy, but it looks like they got:

Powder Charge Velocity
2400   21.7   2000
2400   22.2   2050
2400   22.9*  2100  (* could be 22.7)

With the above, I am less concerned about the previous Quickload (QL) data, but see that it can be improved as described below. As a warning, this data will approximate what Hornady got with their batch of powder. Your batch may burn faster. If you want to approach maximum loads, use of a chrono is strongly recommended. Do not exceed the predicted velocities for the maximum allowed pressure you are willing to run at.

My version of QL does not have these bullets, so I had to add a bullet with an estimated length (0.80”). I ran the Hornady data and found the default parameters gave me 100 fps more velocity and it gave higher pressures. I adjusted the burn rate (Ba) parameter to 1.002 and QL converged pretty good with the Hornady data.

Cartridge          : .350 Legend
Bullet             : .356, 170, Hornady approximation
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.245 inch = 57.02 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400 (Ba adjusted to 1.002)

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-04.5   82    21.40   1987    1490   37037   4678     98.2    1.020
-04.0   82    21.50   1995    1502   37501   4696     98.3    1.015
-03.6   83    21.60   2002    1514   37969   4714     98.4    1.009
-03.1   83    21.70   2010    1525   38442   4731     98.5    1.004
-02.7   83    21.80   2018    1537   38920   4749     98.6    0.998
-02.2   84    21.90   2026    1549   39403   4766     98.7    0.993
-01.8   84    22.00   2034    1561   39891   4783     98.7    0.988
-01.3   85    22.10   2041    1573   40384   4799     98.8    0.983
-00.9   85    22.20   2049    1585   40882   4816     98.9    0.978
-00.4   85    22.30   2057    1597   41386   4832     99.0    0.972
+00.0   86    22.40   2064    1609   41894   4847     99.1    0.967
+00.4   86    22.50   2072    1621   42408   4863     99.1    0.962
+00.9   87    22.60   2080    1633   42928   4878     99.2    0.957
+01.3   87    22.70   2087    1645   43452   4894     99.3    0.952
+01.8   87    22.80   2095    1657   43982   4909     99.3    0.948
+02.2   88    22.90   2103    1669   44518   4923     99.4    0.943

I then re-ran the Lee 200 (adjusted to 210 grs) and Mal Paso's suggested COAL. Based on the 170 above, Hornady stopped at a point where QL pressure got to around 44,000 psi. I set up the ladder based on this being a max. Based on the below, stopping at between 1800 fps and 1850 fps should be giving approximately the same chamber pressure as the Hornady load for the 170 gr at 2100 fps. Based on the default 2400 burn rate used in my previous QL runs, you could get to this velocity range starting at just over 18 grs.

Cartridge          : .350 Legend
Bullet             : .358, 200, LEE C358-200-RF, weight set at 210
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.140 inch = 54.36 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400 (Ba adjusted to 1.002)

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-10.5   73    17.00   1613    1214   29421   3778     97.5    1.262
-09.5   74    17.20   1629    1238   30292   3818     97.8    1.246
-08.4   75    17.40   1645    1262   31183   3858     98.0    1.230
-07.4   76    17.60   1661    1286   32095   3896     98.3    1.215
-06.3   77    17.80   1676    1310   33028   3933     98.5    1.200
-05.3   77    18.00   1692    1335   33982   3970     98.7    1.185
-04.2   78    18.20   1707    1359   34958   4005     98.9    1.170
-03.2   79    18.40   1723    1384   35956   4039     99.1    1.156
-02.1   80    18.60   1738    1408   36977   4072     99.2    1.142
-01.1   81    18.80   1753    1433   38022   4104     99.4    1.129
+00.0   82    19.00   1768    1458   39091   4135     99.5    1.116
+01.1   83    19.20   1783    1482   40185   4165     99.6    1.103
+02.1   83    19.40   1798    1507   41303   4193     99.7    1.090
+03.2   84    19.60   1813    1532   42447   4221     99.8    1.077
+04.2   85    19.80   1827    1557   43618   4247     99.9    1.065
+05.3   86    20.00   1842    1582   44816   4272     99.9    1.053

[mehavey]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4816659 for seating/OAL of the Lee 200
Attention to the amount of the exposed shank is critical given the Legend's short freebore.
Excellent bullet by the way . . .

[Mal Paso]

I am confident the powder charges so magnum primers may reduce the spread. The only published data with pressure is for the RCBS at 208g with 22-23g W296 for 47-55K and 1910-1990 FPS So I am very close.

The Boolit was the 38-200 RCBS (202g) Gas Checked and lubed over 21g of A11FS with a CCI Small Rifle Primer. The rifle was an AR15 16" barrel, carbine length gas system.

16 shots 1 error, not mine, public range, lol

Average 1912 FPS

Standard Deviation 27.5

Min 1835 FPS

Max 1945 FPS

Spread 110 FPS

I think that's it.

Nope COL 2.140"

Howzat?

[Mal Paso]

The brass looked good, felt good in the sizer and I've got it tumbling now. Primers had rounded shoulders and firing pin dent.

[brewer12345]

Okay, it took me a while, but I knew that there was some better 2400 data out for the 350L. Tomme Boy posted a screenshot of 165 / 170 gr Hornady data for the 350 at post 582 of this thread. The screenshot is fuzzy, but it looks like they got:

Powder Charge Velocity
2400   21.7   2000
2400   22.2   2050
2400   22.9*  2100  (* could be 22.7)

With the above, I am less concerned about the previous Quickload (QL) data, but see that it can be improved as described below. As a warning, this data will approximate what Hornady got with their batch of powder. Your batch may burn faster. If you want to approach maximum loads, use of a chrono is strongly recommended. Do not exceed the predicted velocities for the maximum allowed pressure you are willing to run at.

My version of QL does not have these bullets, so I had to add a bullet with an estimated length (0.80”). I ran the Hornady data and found the default parameters gave me 100 fps more velocity and it gave higher pressures. I adjusted the burn rate (Ba) parameter to 1.002 and QL converged pretty good with the Hornady data.

Cartridge          : .350 Legend
Bullet             : .356, 170, Hornady approximation
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.245 inch = 57.02 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400 (Ba adjusted to 1.002)

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-04.5   82    21.40   1987    1490   37037   4678     98.2    1.020
-04.0   82    21.50   1995    1502   37501   4696     98.3    1.015
-03.6   83    21.60   2002    1514   37969   4714     98.4    1.009
-03.1   83    21.70   2010    1525   38442   4731     98.5    1.004
-02.7   83    21.80   2018    1537   38920   4749     98.6    0.998
-02.2   84    21.90   2026    1549   39403   4766     98.7    0.993
-01.8   84    22.00   2034    1561   39891   4783     98.7    0.988
-01.3   85    22.10   2041    1573   40384   4799     98.8    0.983
-00.9   85    22.20   2049    1585   40882   4816     98.9    0.978
-00.4   85    22.30   2057    1597   41386   4832     99.0    0.972
+00.0   86    22.40   2064    1609   41894   4847     99.1    0.967
+00.4   86    22.50   2072    1621   42408   4863     99.1    0.962
+00.9   87    22.60   2080    1633   42928   4878     99.2    0.957
+01.3   87    22.70   2087    1645   43452   4894     99.3    0.952
+01.8   87    22.80   2095    1657   43982   4909     99.3    0.948
+02.2   88    22.90   2103    1669   44518   4923     99.4    0.943

I then re-ran the Lee 200 (adjusted to 210 grs) and Mal Paso's suggested COAL. Based on the 170 above, Hornady stopped at a point where QL pressure got to around 44,000 psi. I set up the ladder based on this being a max. Based on the below, stopping at between 1800 fps and 1850 fps should be giving approximately the same chamber pressure as the Hornady load for the 170 gr at 2100 fps. Based on the default 2400 burn rate used in my previous QL runs, you could get to this velocity range starting at just over 18 grs.

Cartridge          : .350 Legend
Bullet             : .358, 200, LEE C358-200-RF, weight set at 210
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.140 inch = 54.36 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant 2400 (Ba adjusted to 1.002)

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-10.5   73    17.00   1613    1214   29421   3778     97.5    1.262
-09.5   74    17.20   1629    1238   30292   3818     97.8    1.246
-08.4   75    17.40   1645    1262   31183   3858     98.0    1.230
-07.4   76    17.60   1661    1286   32095   3896     98.3    1.215
-06.3   77    17.80   1676    1310   33028   3933     98.5    1.200
-05.3   77    18.00   1692    1335   33982   3970     98.7    1.185
-04.2   78    18.20   1707    1359   34958   4005     98.9    1.170
-03.2   79    18.40   1723    1384   35956   4039     99.1    1.156
-02.1   80    18.60   1738    1408   36977   4072     99.2    1.142
-01.1   81    18.80   1753    1433   38022   4104     99.4    1.129
+00.0   82    19.00   1768    1458   39091   4135     99.5    1.116
+01.1   83    19.20   1783    1482   40185   4165     99.6    1.103
+02.1   83    19.40   1798    1507   41303   4193     99.7    1.090
+03.2   84    19.60   1813    1532   42447   4221     99.8    1.077
+04.2   85    19.80   1827    1557   43618   4247     99.9    1.065
+05.3   86    20.00   1842    1582   44816   4272     99.9    1.053

Thanks for the effort. I will probably start at 17 grains and work my way up to 18 first. If there are no pressure signs, I will cautiously move higher.

I would not at all be surprised if the limit on the Hornady loads were simply the amount of powder you can fit in the case. I set up some test loads of IMR4227 with the 170 grain interlocks and it was very obvious that the max charge Hodgdon offers up is about the most of the powder you can fit in the case and still make COAL limits. From fooling with 2400 in 30-06 it seems like it is a pretty forgiving powder to experiment with.

Yes, I plan on running this in a bolt gun. For now the AR only sees jacketed just to keep things simple. If I find I load I like real well in the bolt I may give it a try in the AR, but I am going into this assuming this is a bolt only proposition.

[P Flados]

I would not at all be surprised if the limit on the Hornady loads were simply the amount of powder you can fit in the case.

Nope. The table shows fill % in the second column. At 100% the air gap is gone. Above 100% is compressed.

[rickt300]

I found a canister of 1680 and the only load data I found max is 24.0 grains under a 180 gr. jacketed bullet. So start load for 200 gr. cast should be around 19.0 grains?

[cwlongshot]

I found a canister of 1680 and the only load data I found max is 24.0 grains under a 180 gr. jacketed bullet. So start load for 200 gr. cast should be around 19.0 grains?

Use 357 Max data as a start and move up as pressure signs show. Its a pretty slow powder. Not "spikey" at all. One of my favorites.

[P Flados]

I found a canister of 1680 and the only load data I found max is 24.0 grains under a 180 gr. jacketed bullet. So start load for 200 gr. cast should be around 19.0 grains?

Alliant data at https://shootersreference.com/reload...a/357-maximum/ shows up to 30 grs of 1680 for both a 180 and a 200 in the 357 Max with listed pressures under 40,000. There were other loads that had much lower max values. The reason for the range of max listed charges is bullet seating depth and resultant load density.

When I was working up loads with Wc680 (milsurp version of 1680), I found that just under 100% load density (~1/32" air gap) worked best in my 357AR Max (ballistic twin to the 350L). This was true for my custom powder coat NLG cast bullets in both 180 gr and 200 gr. Starting with a load that gives an air gap of 1/8" and working up is probably a better recommendation than choosing a starting charge weight without understanding the resultant fill percentage.

[rickt300]

What a spread. Think I will start a bit higher up. 1/8th inch air space meaning from the mouth of the case? Is it clean burning when in the pressure range it likes? At any rate have to wait til Sunday to burn any powder.

[P Flados]

I was talking about the air gap in the loaded round.

In other words, from the base of the seated bullet to the surface of the powder.

For the 350L, 1680 is typically considered a litter slower than optimum. This usually means that you can use "a case full" of powder. For some powders (typically extruded) this means some amount of compression. Some folks use 1680 (a ball powder) compressed, but I was not happy compressing my powder in my gun. So for 1680, I tend to recommend considering "a case full" with no compression (100% load density) as real close to the maximum.

For both the 357 Max and the 350L, seating depth can vary a lot depending on bullet and gun. Case capacities can also vary from brand to brand. If your target maximum is 100% load density, you have to factor in your COAL and your components.

[rickt300]

I don't like to compress ball powders much either. Hitting the press shortly.

[MarkP]

Alliant data at https://shootersreference.com/reload...a/357-maximum/ shows up to 30 grs of 1680 for both a 180 and a 200 in the 357 Max with listed pressures under 40,000. There were other loads that had much lower max values. The reason for the range of max listed charges is bullet seating depth and resultant load density.

When I was working up loads with Wc680 (milsurp version of 1680), I found that just under 100% load density (~1/32" air gap) worked best in my 357AR Max (ballistic twin to the 350L). This was true for my custom powder coat NLG cast bullets in both 180 gr and 200 gr. Starting with a load that gives an air gap of 1/8" and working up is probably a better recommendation than choosing a starting charge weight without understanding the resultant fill percentage.

Doesn't look correct note pressure of HDY 180 gr SSPB compared to the other 180 gr bullets listed.