350 Legend and Cast Boolits

[Oldfeller]

I remember folks complaining about Lil Gun being erratic and throwing high pressure spikes and I remember H110 historically not liking partial case loads and being erratic if underloaded.

There is cookbook data on H110 in the 350 Legend ---- follow the recipes as provided by Hodgdon.


Don't follow my threads on a re-throated modified AR platform and just go try to do the same things without the long throat --- get you into trouble it will.

In my loading efforts, 29 grains is too much, 28 grains is a good service maximum with consistent (yes, high, but consistent) pressures, 27 grains begins signs of erratic pressures. All of this predicated on a modified pull down powder and a modified long throat rifle, so to you it isn't worth very much.

I also learned that my LEE rotary drum powder measures were absolutely no good metering a fine fine powder (I swept up a half grain off the table off of one load cycle). Ditto and worse on the LEE slider type units. Dippers were better, but wide mouth dippers once again were variable =/- 2 grains due to settling or losing the fine ball powder over the lip of the dipper.

Tall narrow dippers built from 350 Legend brass were the best dippers for dipping consistency but use of a tall dipper is somewhat problematical, so I used a big fat dipper to refill them once I straightened them up to completely vertical as off vertical lost part of a grain of powder over the edge. Dip, straighten, refill over the powder bowl makes up a fast non-messy consistent load with a tall dipper.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...AA11FS-WARNING

[P Flados]

Well after burning up 150 primers or so in pursuit of a functioning, accurate load in my AR I see that I am running low on I4227. I have a container of H110 and I have seen some posts bemoaning it as being erratic in the Legend. All I really want is 1800-1900fps under either the 182 grain or 200 grain cast bullets. I could go a bit faster if needed but those speeds are fine with me. Is H110 satisfactory for these speeds? Also I have been installing the gas check after powder coating while sizing, is this best?

I ran into ignition trouble with H110 in my 357 AR Max and in my 357 Max revolver ammo. I think it was a combination of powder coated cast, cooler weather, a batch of H110 that was at the "harder to ignite" end of the normal range (I had zero problems with some 296 loads just prior to switching over to H110), and primers that were just not "hot" enough. I do not remember which bullets were worse, I was shooting Lee 200s and custom NLG 180s and 200s (pictures of the customs were posted earlier in this thread).

Your chances for happiness will probably be better with the "hottest" primers you have (or can get) and loads that are close to max. Getting at least 90% fill is recommended.

When I was having problems, I did notice that the force needed to pull my bullets from my cases was inconsistent. Some would be more "stuck" in the case with a good bit of break away force needed, while others came out more easily. I thought about trying to get a more uniform high break away force. One approach I contemplated was just barely seating the bullets, applying some liquid BLL (or something similar) to the bullet just above the case and then seating the bullet the rest of the way.

FYI, Powder Valley and Brownells have AA 1680 in stock. Midsouth has SW Heavy Pistol in stock.

I am very pleased with my current powder for most all of my 357 AR Max and 357 Max full power loads, WC 680 (milsurp version of 1680).

[rickt300]

Where might I get some WC680? I have to say I am getting tired of having to order everything.

[P Flados]

Where might I get some WC680? I have to say I am getting tired of having to order everything.

My first 8 lb. jug came from a small batch that Jeff Bartlett (GIBrass.com) acquired in early 2019. After I tried it and found how much I liked it, I knew I needed more.

I quickly got 2 more jugs from Jeff.

Between 357 Max loads for IHMSA, 357AR Max for fun and 300 BO for fun, I went through my first jug much faster fast than expected.

Starting around the end of 2019, I was really keeping my eyes out for more.

I am on my last of the Bartlett 680 jugs, but it is still ~75% full.

In August of 2020, I got an E-Mail for Red Eye reloading marketing "MP-350" as "Similar to Accurate 1680". I ordered 32 lbs. This is my long term stash of untouched powder. I will need to work up some loads from scratch when I swap over. I do have a chrono, so some side by side testing is my best bet.

Right now, 1 lb bottles of 1680 are not hard to find. It may be a while before a milsurp version becomes available again. If you do find it, it can be a good idea to get multiple jugs from one lot. This saves effort with working up new loads / comparing old loads when changing over to a new lot.

On a side note, milsurp 680 is a by-product of the US government having AK-47 ammo made for "friendlies" that use the gun. With the current world crisis, it is not a stretch to think that the US may want to start getting ready to supply bulk quantities of this ammo to "friendlies" in Eastern Europe. If they place orders with the actual powder producer, we can hope that "over-runs" or "just out of spec" versions will hit the market again.

[brewer12345]

I am going to do some 350L load development this spring. I want to develop at least 2 rounds, one of which will hopefully be cast. I am going to work with the Hornady 170 grain SP for AR purposes and ideally do at least as well as their factory offering with this bullet. I also want to gin up a full power cast load with the RCBS 35 Rem bullet for my bolt gun. I know I will have to size down the bullets I have (I either sized them to 358 or 360, will have to check). I am probably limited to powders on hand unless I get lucky. I'd like to keep the one pound of 4227 I stumbled across to try with the jacketed load. Other than that I have:

- 2400
- Lil Gun
- Varget
- Unique
- smattering of rifle powders I suspect are too slow
- stuff I suspect is too fast like HP38, Titegroup, Bullseye

Which of these powders would you try? Any ideas on starting loads and max?

[Oldfeller]

Finally sanded some 30 round 5.56 magazines enough to accept a 28 count column of 350 Legend rounds and feed them back up reliably.



Here is the tool that was used, this is long reach tool was intended to go into a 1" stroke cutsaw but actually worked best when run in a vise using full length all the way up and down the length of the 30 round magazine type strokes.

Grit starts 80 then when good final size is achieved goes down to 100 for taking off the fuzz that the glass filled nylon likes to leave after sanding. Lots of sanding is required as there are little faint ribs to remove and a good amount of wall material too.

[Oldfeller]

Let's see, 7 each 30 round magazines times 28 = 196 rounds loaded up in 30 round magazines, plus 38 rounds sitting in two 20 round magazines totals 234 rounds ready to fire in magazines, plus 250 more rounds resting in baggies is 484 rounds, and I think it smells like we are coming up on a range trip when the weather warms up some more.


<grin>


There is only one way to find out if a magazine will feed properly or not .......

[P Flados]

I am going to do some 350L load development this spring. I want to develop at least 2 rounds, one of which will hopefully be cast. I am going to work with the Hornady 170 grain SP for AR purposes and ideally do at least as well as their factory offering with this bullet. I also want to gin up a full power cast load with the RCBS 35 Rem bullet for my bolt gun. I know I will have to size down the bullets I have (I either sized them to 358 or 360, will have to check). I am probably limited to powders on hand unless I get lucky. I'd like to keep the one pound of 4227 I stumbled across to try with the jacketed load. Other than that I have:

- 2400
- Lil Gun
- Varget
- Unique
- smattering of rifle powders I suspect are too slow
- stuff I suspect is too fast like HP38, Titegroup, Bullseye

Which of these powders would you try? Any ideas on starting loads and max?

If you want highest available velocity for the 170 with your existing powders, there is Hodgdon Lil Gun on-line data for your specific bullet. Be very careful with both case length and with COAL. Some folks have reported some pretty bad problems with Lil Gun that I do not think we fully understand. On the other hand, there are lots of folks who say they use this powder in the 350L with no problems. I you use it, be very meticulous for sticking with the recipe and be very observant for any signs of problems.

Using 2400 should get you acceptable performance with slightly less velocity for a given pressure. I know of no "unexplained problems" with this powder. H110/296 and Lil Gun are the powders I associate with what I call finicky performance. I have seen some 2400 loads for the 350L out on the web, but none with pressure data. There is 357 Max data for 2400 with pressure test data from the old Alliant guides. Working up using Max data should be safe. If you want to understand what to expect based on your barrel length, your COAL and your case capacity as compared to a published 357 Max recipe, I can run some Quickload stuff for you.

Unique will work for a plinker in the bolt gun. Actually, Titegroup is also pretty good for this type of thing. If you want help for this kind of load, more details on what you want to achieve would help.

https://shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/350-legend/
https://shootersreference.com/reload...a/357-maximum/
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manu...20-%202005.pdf

[Mal Paso]

I just felt tip marked a 350L dummy round and spun it in my AR chamber, the case just above the web was unmarked and is unsupported, about 3/32".

I am working up ladder loads for 11FS but staying a couple grains below estimated max.

[mehavey]

case just above the web was unmarked...

What brass are you using ?

[Mal Paso]

What brass are you using ?

Winchester Look to be once fired factory as they were crimped.

[mehavey]

Crimped?
The Legend doesn't use a crimp...
(surely not one that would be visible after the fact)

Might you be able to post a pic?

[Oldfeller]

Winchester brass does have staked primers, which is what he may be meaning. Winchester also historically liked to heavily mouth factory stake crimp their heavy hard to ignite ball powder loads on 7mm Remington Magnum and other major rifle calibers, which is the Winchester nomenclature that he is perhaps remembering.

Cut them new folks a wee bit of slack, most of us need it from time to time -- I know I do.

I think all 350 Legend makers still do put a taper crimp on their case mouths to retain their bullets, I always do this using the full length resizing die from LEE as it is a slam loaded auto loader with relatively short bullet to case engagement.

On the BTW, I had my first reinstalled primer fall out of a Hornady 350 Legend case, so you can get an "I told you so" on that one.

Hornady brass sucks and you can also get a big AMEN from me on that one.



note to self --- carry the long knock out rod and a hammer on the range trip

[Mal Paso]

Crimped?
The Legend doesn't use a crimp...
(surely not one that would be visible after the fact)

Might you be able to post a pic?

A circular depression in the brass around the primer peening the brass over the edge of the primer? I lost 2 very expensive 10 cent primers due to this. Going to have to get a swage tool cuz I've had that problem with 9mm too. Whats with you semiauto guys? LOL

I going to the range today to see if the new gun works. Will try to post pictures later but Hughs satellite is awful, I couldn't get on last night at all.

[mehavey]

OK... went and compared some fired Comm'l Win 180 SP brass to fired virgin Win Brass
Yup, `see the faint "shelf" around the primer in the comm'l cases.

Didn't have a problem depriming though, and a CCI-41 went right back in.
(`am using an RCBS bench primer tool though)

[Mal Paso]

So do you guys use something to line the gun up with the target or just line your eye up with the barrel? Seriously, the Red Dot died before the first shot. All I got was function test with 50 rounds. I ran 19, 20, and 21g of A11FS behind the RCBS 38-200 which fed and cycled beautifully. I also ran 20, 21, 22, and 23.5 of A11FS behind the Hornady 170 SP. No pressure signs with any of the loads and enough recoil to know you shot a gun. These are Not Listed Loads, there is no official load data for 11FS in 350 Legend. No problems with the first 5 170g at 20g or the last few at 23.5 but had about 8 failures to load in the middle so probably not the buffer?

I brought the Chronograph but didn't want to shoot through it without sights. LOL The Really Good News, no bullets to pull, they are All down range.

[Mal Paso]

I got a diaper for this bottom feeder before I fired the first round so brass doesn't hit the ground. The one that escaped made it 12 feet. I sized/deprimed and washed the lube off the brass and it all looks good. There were a few tight cases but none with any stress marks near the bottom. I'm going to load some more of the 200g GC tonight, save the jackets for a project.

A says cowitness Iron sights will be here tomorrow. Well I was going to get them but I couldn't decide... Sig says 3-6 weeks for red dot repair. Found out there are fake Romeo 5s out there too, mine doesn't appear to be one. It was the only non USA part on the gun, figures!

[Oldfeller]

Mal,

350 Legend is a fairly powerful deer/pig/personal defense gun. I keep two types of optics on such animals to make sure I have something working when the SHTF and also when it is very dark where I am shooting.



I sight the scope in at 50 yards and I know the rise amount at 100 yards and the drop amount at 200 yards. I shoot at these distances at the range with the best performing ammo to get my spreads and drops.

The Legend has a very curved impact pathway and you need to understand what your gun does at near, middle and far distances. I have a mil dot reticle scope and I have a "fixed magnification" that I like to use with a sticker taped on the scope giving me mil dot hold overs for common shooting distances using my most accurate rounds.

Point blank "no adjustment needed" range is fairly short with the 350 Legend rounds, very similar to a 30-30 lever action rifle but with a greater drop off amount as distances go up.

Using the mil dot list taped on the scope, I can shoot 200 yards with fairly good prior knowledge of the results. My ability to guess the ranges gets totally bad going out past 200 yards ........

Shooting very short distances (inside the house for example) I have a laser dot sight that works fine shooting from the hip (until the batteries go dead, anyway). The bullet will hit an inch and a quarter low to the dot when shot very close up, actually getting better vertically as the distance increases. I set the red dot to the cross hairs of my stable 50 yard zeroed scope, so I can get a re-zero after every battery change for "assured" performance.

Using the scope at night and looking for the red glowing dot through the optic allows me to shoot "relatively accurately" in the dark at night up to 125 yards or thereabouts. Ability to guess the range accurately limits this trick, especially at night.

Shooting someone out past 25 yards makes you a stone cold intentional killer (in Joe and Rita Sixpack's eyes anyway -- unless the other guys were currently actively shooting at you first). Being able to hit anything at 50 plus yards makes you a "sniper killer", not a normal citizen in the eyes of many prosecutors and jurors. Police will testify that they aren't trained to shoot that far, so obviously neither can you. Unless you have special training and are one of them nasty sniper killer types, anyway.

Be careful of what you do, especially when shooting a rifle from any form of good cover. You can rapidly become the bad guy simply by shooting intentionally too far and doing it too well.

[Mal Paso]

Thanks Oldfeller, very good stuff! Here is my build so far, All USA parts in the picture. MBUS steel cowitness sights came today and I installed them. I really like the Thordsen Stock, very solid, nice feel. The guy at the bench next to me with a flag on the rear of the pistol grip of his M&P was envious. I got the buffer tube cover with a QD point for a single point sling. I also got the convertible single/2point Magpul Sling. I went to put the QD point on the handguard and there was already one there! I like these black rifles! Gotta keep after the ca commies.

I noticed a little sooting on the outside of the brass on some of the lighter charged rounds so I'm going to drop the lowest charges from the ladder. The A11FS felt very linear as the charges went up and even the lowest charges felt consistent. I left the chronograph in the car and hope to get back to the range this weekend.

[brewer12345]

If you want highest available velocity for the 170 with your existing powders, there is Hodgdon Lil Gun on-line data for your specific bullet. Be very careful with both case length and with COAL. Some folks have reported some pretty bad problems with Lil Gun that I do not think we fully understand. On the other hand, there are lots of folks who say they use this powder in the 350L with no problems. I you use it, be very meticulous for sticking with the recipe and be very observant for any signs of problems.

Using 2400 should get you acceptable performance with slightly less velocity for a given pressure. I know of no "unexplained problems" with this powder. H110/296 and Lil Gun are the powders I associate with what I call finicky performance. I have seen some 2400 loads for the 350L out on the web, but none with pressure data. There is 357 Max data for 2400 with pressure test data from the old Alliant guides. Working up using Max data should be safe. If you want to understand what to expect based on your barrel length, your COAL and your case capacity as compared to a published 357 Max recipe, I can run some Quickload stuff for you.

Unique will work for a plinker in the bolt gun. Actually, Titegroup is also pretty good for this type of thing. If you want help for this kind of load, more details on what you want to achieve would help.

https://shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/350-legend/
https://shootersreference.com/reload...a/357-maximum/
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manu...20-%202005.pdf

P Flados, I'd love some data for 2400 and a 210 grain version of the RCBS 35-200 bullet. I'd be shooting out of a 16 inch bolt gun.