50-70 Government

[StrawHat]

One of my favorite cartridges has to be the 50-70.

Been around since 1866, the cartridge not me, and still outclasses most of the newer ones.

My method of loading in not real scientific but it produces good results.

Using an empty cartridge as a scoop, I scoop up a full case of black powder, FFg.

Pour that measure of powder down a 30" tube into a primed case.

Next in is a grease cookie made of a cardboard wad (cereal box or similar), a grease disk and another cardboard wad.

Now the bullet, I cast Lyman 515141 and the Lee 515450, lubed with the same lube as in the grease oreo.

I am currently using a trapdoor rifle so I don't need to crimp but don't see why you couldn't use a light crimp.

Any one else load the 50-70?

And here is my trapdoor.



Let's see more of them.

[NickSS]

Looks like yours is a converted Missassippi rifle model 1841. Did you do the work yourself or have a gunsmith do it with a 1868 or 1870 action?

I load 50-70s for two different rifles. One is an original 1866 springfield and the other is a C. Sharps Model 1874 hunters Carbine. The loads are different in only one respect. I have to use a .516" sizer for the Springfield and use a .512" sizer for the Sharps. My old springfield with a 70 gr. FFG charge will print a 3 to 4 inch group at 100 yards dead on point of aim. My Sharps will do better more in the 1.5 to 2 inch range at the same distance.

[rockrat]

I load the 50-70 for use in my Ruger #1. Still working on loads, but so far the best load is a 633 gr slug (NEI) at around 1400fps. Hard on the shoulder somewhat, but have a mountain moulds slug that I haven't tried yet. Run this thing up to full throttle and it will get your attention. 450gr slugs over 2000fps.

[StrawHat]

Looks like yours is a converted Missassippi rifle model 1841.

"...DING DING DING Give the man a seegar...."

Good eye.

Exactly, I had the barreled action for years hoping to acquire enough original parts. Eventually realized that on my salary, it wasn't going to happen. So, one day I am at a gunshop and see the patchbox peeking out through a bunch of stocks in the corner. When I ask about it the shopkeeper says something about how I might not be too interested once I see the barrel.

Big old area of rust on the outside by the muzzle. Previous owner shot his deer and laid the rifle on it for the obligatory "grinning hunter" pictures. Blood never got wiped off until it was too late.

Got it for a song.

Once I got it home, out with the new and in with the old.

Inlet the horseshoe spring and the ejector spring. The barrel was smaller than the italian one so I glass bedded it in place and soldered half round shims in the barrel bands.

Used some hex stock to "temporarily" lengthen the hammer to hit the firing pin.

A set of sights and the hard part was done.

Next winter it gets refinished to something a bit more pleasing to the eye than italian varnish and bright brass.

The action is stamped 1866 on the breech block, by the knuckle and Al Frasca figures it passed through the Bannerman Arsenal at some time.

I am also having a rolling block rebarreled and chambered for the 50-70.

rockrat I load the 50-70 for use in my Ruger #1.

rockrat, Was that a rebore or a rebarrel job on the #1?

No, wait, don't tell me, I don't need another "dream rifle".

How about a photo though?

[xtimberman]

I've had several .50-70s over the years - a trapdoor, a RB, and a Shiloh Sharps replica. I attempted smokeless loads on all three using IMR-3031 and IMR-4198 before giving that up and finally adopting a more accurate BP duplex load for each. The .50-70 is one of the most inherently accurate calibers I've ever fooled with - not just my rifles, but every .50-70 with a fine bore that I've had the pleasure of shooting. IMO, it is an ignored (and superior) little brother to the .50-90 and .50-140 heavy ordnance.

The only mould I've used is Lyman #515141, and it has shot well in any .50-70 I've tried it in. The two old rifles required a .512" bullet dia. and the Shiloh required a .509" dia. Lube was my own paraffin/beeswax mix softened with ARCO graphite motor oil.

My best load for all three was a duplex load: 61gr. Goex FG on top of a .32acp case of SR-4759. The Shiloh had a perfect bore and could be fired all day with only a couple of bore cleanings when shooting this load. I used a single .50 cal. card cut from Dr Pepper cartons - shiny side down - between the powder and the bullet.

A shooting club I belonged to at the time had an 18" gong set up at 300M for the Garand shooters. I knew the exact tang sight setting for that gong and would sometimes go over there while they were ringing it with their M1s. I had let some of them shoot my Shiloh enough to where they were just as proficient as I was. Sometimes a couple of the fellows would scam the newcomers into betting a round of beers afterwards against one of them shooting the .50-70 and hitting the gong.

I've shot a couple of hogs and some small whitetails with the .50-70 and it was somewhat overkill - at least for the deer.

.50-70 Govt. - the first US military round that civilians fell in love with for sporting use. A great cartridge!

xtm

[dubber123]

My 50-70 is a 6-1/2" barreled T/C Contender, ordered with a 1-26" twist from Bullberry. It is my most accurate iron sighted handgun, and gets alot of looks at the range. It took a bunch of load development to make it work in the short barrel, but it was worth it.

The Lee 450 shoots extremely well, and I have a 390 grain full wadcutter that does nearly as well. I am toying with building a SXS shotgun into a double rifle, and it will be a 50-70, or 50-90.

[Halfbreed]

I am interested in a short barrel carbine trapdoor in the 50-70, I just don't know what to look for really.
John

[rockrat]

StrawHat---Will try and get you some pics tomorrow. It is a SSK rebarrel job.

[StrawHat]

I am interested in a short barrel carbine trapdoor in the 50-70, I just don't know what to look for really.
John

John,

These are the two sites I always recommend to people interested in Trapdoors.

http://www.trapdoors.com/

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

Quite a bit of info on both sites.

Since no one is making a replica in 50-70, you need to find someone selling an old one.

Actually that is not as rare as it sounds, a bunch of them are out there.

Rolling block and Sharps are also available.

I am not sure if a receiver from a trapdoor M1873 or later could be rebarrelled to 50-70. Some one with both chamberings would have to mention and comment.

Good luck.

[13Echo]

I have an 1868 Springfield with a decent but not pristine bore. It will shoot the Lee version of the Goverment bullet but not the slightly smaller diameter Lyman version. Even with the rather primitive sights and 60 year old eyes it will give a decent group at 100yds. I'm shooting 65 grs of Goex FFg in Annealed Starline brass with a Federal 215 primer with a firm crimp over the front band. The bullet is cast from 30:1 lead tin alloy with homebrew lube and no wads. Basically I'm trying to dupicate the military load. Thumper is a hoot to shoot and it is still a thrill to take the old soldier to the range. Unfortunately carbines in 50-70 are very scarce but I also would love to have one.

Jerry Liles

[13Echo]

There is an 1870 Trapdoor barreled action on Dr Frasca's site that could be used to make a carbine. Just needs lock, trigger and trigger guard, stock, barrel bands, sights, etc. Practically builds itself.

Jerry Liles

[StrawHat]

There is an 1870 Trapdoor barreled action on Dr Frasca's site that could be used to make a carbine. Just needs lock, trigger and trigger guard, stock, barrel bands, sights, etc. Practically builds itself.

Jerry Liles

That's what I was trying to do.

I had neither the time nor the patience.

Good luck if anyone goes this route.

[13Echo]

Well Strawhat I have to say your Frankentrap turned out pretty good, at least in the pictures. By the way over on the ASSRA site in the For Sale section there is a very nicely done cut down 1868 that is probably just what you had in mid. Sure looks pretty.

Jerry Liles

[WBH]

I load the 50-70 for two different rifles. One is an original Remingtom RB action that now wears Treebone wood and a Green Mountain barrel. The other is a mint condition NYS militia Remington RB. Both are a pleasure to shoot. Recoil is mild even in the lighter military rifle. I have been using the Lee and the RCBS 500 grain boolits cast in 20:1 with a .060 veggie card. Lube is my own homemade brew. I do have a 650gr PJ Creedmore long range boolit.........but I use that for my 50-90 at longer ranges.

[rockrat]

StrawHat----sorry I have been remiss in posting pics. Friend went back in hospital and have been distracted. Looks just like a regular #1 but with a big hole in the end!!

[NickSS]

Thanks for the info on your rifle. I have used the 1866 rifle of mine more than the Sharps as I have had it longer. My Springfield had sporting sights put on it back in the last century a rocky mountain german silver blace front sight that is soldered into the base of the military front sight/bayonet lug and a rather unusual U shaped rear fixed sight dovetailed into the barrel where the GI sight was. This U sight has a small notch in the bottom when you draw the top of the front sight down fine it shoots right on at 100 yards. To shoot further I found that you raise the barrel and the barrel acts like a big sight between the arms of the U. If I set the front band at the base of the U and put the target on top of the front blade this rifle will hit point of aim at 200 yards. I have even figured the hold over out to 300 yards with it and I can ring an 18 inch gong almost every shot at that range. Its a fun rifle. My ambition is to shoot a buffalo with it perhaps next fall.

[StrawHat]

Wow, and I thought there would be only one or two responses.

Glad to see there are more folks who appreciate the 50-70.

[bart55]

I have a NY roller that was cut down for a legion parade gun, had it denickled and put a tang sight on it . I use the lee 450 gr with either a case full of double f or 27gr of 5744 I use home made emerets for the black and felix lube for the smokeless and both are very accurate with the short bbl. I have shot at our clubs longest range (250yrds and can keep the shots in the kill area of a deer target ) at 100yrds it stays in about 3in. . I sure love that 5070 hunted with it but did not get a shot at a deer yet . with the old war horse ..

[Tom Herman]

I load the 50-70 for two different rifles. One is an original Remingtom RB action that now wears Treebone wood and a Green Mountain barrel. The other is a mint condition NYS militia Remington RB. Both are a pleasure to shoot. Recoil is mild even in the lighter military rifle. I have been using the Lee and the RCBS 500 grain boolits cast in 20:1 with a .060 veggie card. Lube is my own homemade brew. I do have a 650gr PJ Creedmore long range boolit.........but I use that for my 50-90 at longer ranges.

Excellent on your two 50/70 rifles! The NYS Militia rifle is on my short list of guns to acquire.... The RRB sounds nice as well. I may wind up springing for an Argentine RRB, or working up an action for 50/70.
A couple of years ago, I picked up a nice M1868 Trapdoor that someone sporterized. The local gunsmith has this thing about trying to talk anyone out of firing anything but modern weapons (long overdue to change gunsmiths), but he took it to another gunsmith and that one said I could run blackpowder through it.
The bore is in great shape. I have the dies, will get the proper bullet mould, and begin rolling my own.
The 50/70 is an awesome caliber that deserves a larger following.

[wa tyrrell]

.50-70 has long been one of my favorites. First gun was a NYS RB rifle. Second was a converted '63 sharps. Since the: 2 '68 Springfields, NYS carbine, 2nd model Allin conv, Springfield Sharps rifle.

The RB's are quite accurate. I had some pause shooting the Allin, but it locked up tight, so I gave it a try.

There is a loading in the Lyman book which I use. It is a Unique load with a dacron wad.