1911 Failure to battery

[CJD]

I am new to this forum as well as shooting cast boolits so appologize if this seems like a stupid question. I aquired some cast 230 grain .452 WC that I loaded to a major power factor ( approx 800fps) and shot in my SR 1911 Ruger and got off about 25 rounds before they started failing to go into battery. I am thinking that the sizing lube is causing this, so should I be cleaning the lube off of all the bullets before firing them and if so what should I be using to clean them? I beleive the sizing lube is a waxy base. Prior to trying the cast projectiles I shot about 100 rnds of copper jacketed wc with all going into battery.

[Jonesy]

Do a plunk test in the barrel to check for headspacing. Most likely your COL is a bit too long. My lee 228 RN mold will only make reliably feeding rounds at around 1.90 COL. Easiest way I've found is to get a fired case, set a bullet loosely into it, and chamber it with the barrel removed so you can take the measurement when the headspacing is right. Just push it on a flat surface to get it to sit flush, and consider dropping powder charge a bit to keep in mind reduced case capacity. The COL they give you in reloading manuals seem more like a ballpark guideline, you really have to fit the round to your particular gun to get reliable feeding.

[DrCaveman]

Not a stupid question, pretty common really.

Others will chime in with more questions about specifics of your load, but my bet is that your problem has to do with seating depth and/or degree of taper crimp.

Not really sure what you mean by "sizing lube". 45 acp shells dont require lube for sizing with any modern (1970-now) carbide dies...if you acquired .452" boolits you probably didnt run them through a sizer die (or did you?) so no special lube in that (non) step... Maybe you just mean "boolit lube" which serves to help provide a gas seal and friction reduction while a boolit is slamming down your barrel...generally no need to remove this from the nose of a boolit, in my experience... Let's see what others have to say

Jaxket bullets are usually sized a little smaller, for that reason they chamber easier. Properly sized cast boolits can be a bit more sensitive to crimp and seating depth. Try a little more crimp!

Welcome to the forum, i hope you stick around and get some questions answered, and get that ruger shooting good!

[Cmm_3940]

First, make sure the headspace is correct.



Seat and crimp in seperate steps. If you do it as one step, a ridge of lead will get plowed up which will cause problems.

Your taper crimp should be about .469"-.470"

[Virginia John]

Manufactured jacketed bullets will shoot in anything. With lead and in particular .452 you need to be mindful of your barrels throught, crimp and headspace, everything these guys said above.

[RobS]

lube build up and or possible led ring from sharp throat I would check both issue see if this is case.

Very likely candidate. Small amounts will scrap off the boolit until it will build up enough to not let the next round go full battery due to a ring of lead at the end of the chamber. You didn't see this with jacketed as these are smaller in diameter and harder.

[bangerjim]

I know there will be disagreements with this, but that is what this forum is all about...sharing ideas that work and don't work:

I had horrible loading problems with both my 1911's until I went to 451 sizing AND a LEE factory crimp die. Not a lot of crimp...just enough to pass the plunk test. You can screw up a case really bad and swage the lead if you crank down too hard, but the FCD gives you a perfect size case from front to back every time. Just like that com-load ammo that shoots perfect every time!

Now ALL my several styles of 45 cal boolits ALL chamber, cycle, and shoot perfectly in the 1911's!

Works for me! Can't understand why so many hate the FCD. Best die ever made. I use one on all my semi rounds....9,40,45.

I Powder Coat everything. I use NO sizing lube and NO grease lube on any of my boolits.

Good luck on your quest to finding a solution.

bangerjim

[Char-Gar]

There could be several possible causes. Post a clear picture of the troublesome reloads and I might be able to do more that guess or give you a list.

[gpidaho]

Jim beat me to it. I totally agree with the above. My Ruger 97 DC HATED cast boolits until I got the COL right and started using the FCD and PC. No more problems now, you just have to give a pistol what it wants. GP

[ole 5 hole group]

I never did find the FCD any better than any other seater - in fact, my preference is the Redding profile crimp.

My 1911's digest everything I load, and my OAL is 1.250 (sometimes a bit shorter, sometimes closer to 1.26) and I crimp 0.468 to 0.470. I set the crimp for 468 but use mixed brass and find the crimp measurements vary but they all shoot to the same grouping and feed without failure.


I load for other 1911's and some Sigs are real picky and both jacketed & cast need to be seated shorter, like 1.190 or thereabouts. Some even need Federal primers for consistent ignition, as WLP's sometimes need to be hit twice. Some of those Sigs were sent back for alleged repair and still won't ignite WLP's 100X100 - usually 1 to 3 out of 100 needed a second strike.


I think if the original poster seated a bit deeper & crimped to 0.468/0.469 all would be well.

[Bill*B]

COL is critical if you are loading round nose slugs - for a really good time, seat them far enough out that the rifling grabs them - then they won't chamber, and they're too tight to extract. Beautiful - a live round stuck out of battery.

I like the SWC profile as it gives a better visual indication of how deep they are, and that's less likely to happen - load them to just have a sliver of lead shoulder visible, (one member advised "a fingernail width" and that's about right) and do put a dial caliper on that case mouth after you crimp them. If the mouth diameter exceeds 0.470", adjust your crimp die to squeeze down tighter.

As mentioned in the previous posts, best feeding is with a case mouth diameter of just under 0.470" - and some guns won't feed at all if they are larger.

I'm convinced that many pistols get a bad rep for not feeding cast bullets because the case mouth hasn't been sized down. My SIG is a jam-o-matic with SWC bullets if I don't attend to that little detail - but a flawless feeder when I do.

[35remington]

FWIW.....I absolutely guarantee I can fix any and all chambering problems in any 45 ACP firearm without using a Lee factory crimp die, including those with your gun.

So can anyone else interested in what causes problems. All it takes is finding out what's wrong and addressing it. Measuring is the necessary first step.

[Bill*B]

One of my most used tools is a Lyman dial caliper - get the steel one - it's accurate and has proved to be durable.

[DougGuy]

Depending on the barrel throat, or, lack of, many barrels won't plunk a .452" loaded to the proper COA until they are throated. Very common. Same barrel will handle .451" til the cows come home but .452" more likely than not needs throated. I offer this service and also put some extra amount of 3° freebore between the chamber and the leade in to the rifling which really seems to cut groups noticeably.

Seating deeper than specified COA in loading data presents yet a second problem as a workaround to the first in that you must adjust load data for the shorter COA when the best thing to do is simply have the barrel throated. This lowers pressures, aids in feeding, greatly reduces leading, gives an increased velocity, and generally tightens groups.

Here is a barrel that has been throated and has probably .140" of freebore that is cut on a 3° taper. These shoot lights out with cast boolits..

[gpidaho]

Doug: I've been told before that throating would help my old Ruger 97. As you say, I've been working around the problem and have had good luck sized .451 which is what the boolit ends up when using the Lee FCD. I need to get with you soon on another project (Ruger Vaquero 44-40 cylinder) Hope to have you open it up for me. You know the problem there! Will PM ya as soon as I get two nickels to rub together. May just send along the 45 ACP barrel at the same time. GP

[35remington]

My P97 had no throat at all. It got throated.

I might point out that the degree of throat DG shows in the picture is not necessary for good functionality with all reasonably suitable ammo and I prefer not to go that far myself.

[DougGuy]

I did a little experiment with a 1911 I recently put together. Partially because the Glock guys that want their Lone Wolf barrels throated even longer than what you see there, to run .45 Super with heavy boolits seated out long. They say those barrels shoot lights out, so I got curious. I had 3 barrels for this 1911, two High Standard and one Colt.

I left the Colt barrel as it came from the factory, I throated the new NOS HS barrel with .080" worth of freebore, or maybe half what you see in the above photo, and I throated the used HS barrel out long, I think it may even be the one that is in the photo. You may be surprised at the results.

This is the long throated HS barrel, from about 10yds standing, using both hands and the trigger is horribly stiff and gritty, this was the first string of fire for this gun as it was newly assembled from new Auto Ordnance frame and internals and used WWII slide and internals. Load fired was 230gr plated HP 5.3gr 231, WLP primer WW brass.

Long throated HS barrel:


Standard throated HS barrel:



Factory throated Colt barrel:

[35remington]

Thing is, my Bar Sto's and Karts are not throated excessively long and they shoot quite well, besides being the choice of bullseye shooters, many of which, including myself, who shoot cast bullets in them.

How is that picture possible, by the way? The top center group on the plates is the same in all three pictures yet two different groups show on the other two and the whole series of groups should be accumulative, not separate.

[DougGuy]

Easy.. image editing copy and paste. The 6" plate has 3 groups on it, by the time the last group was fired, it can be quite confusing so I simply copied over them to separate them. The first two photos are untouched, the last photo has the group from the second photo edited out.

Had I two Kart barrels, I would compare how they shoot and then do the same experiment on one barrel to see if there was any difference in groups, velocity, or leading. A longer throat isn't mechanically necessary to plunk given loads, but I think there could be advantages to it. Can't really explain why but the results I am seeing from those who have sent barrels in for throating, and in my own barrels, have been positive. As far as I know, there really hasn't been much comparison done in throat length, I haven't ever read much about it or heard much about it in the years I have been involved with the .45 ACP in the 1911 format. It's interesting why it seems to work like it does.

[tja6435]

Throat job fixed my failure to battery on my SR1911. No amount of fiddling with the dies, other than seating super short would fix the problem until I sent if off to be throated. Not a problem since