Strange rusty cloud when pouring powder

[Rick45Colt]

So I am working up different loads of 357 and I a was going to use some IMR 4227. It just so happens that I have 3 cans on my shelf and the one I started to use gave of a rusty cloud when pouring into the powder measure. So I removed it and tried a different can but did not get the cloud this time so I loaded my rounds. Should I worry about the other can? The can looks perfect no rust or dents or anything.

[pjames32]

Rusty usually means the powder is dead or dying. I would use it for fertilizer on your roses. I assume no acetone smell in the rusty can.
YMMV

[CastingFool]

Powder may be going bad. How did it smell, in comparison to the other cans? Powder will develop a reddish dust, and start smelling vinegary when it's getting old. How much is left in the can?

[smoked turkey]

I have always thought that the rusty cloud you spoke of along with loss of the original strong smell and possibly some powder clumps was an indication that the powder was bad and should be discarded. I know you didn't mention the smell and powder clumps but I think it all pretty much goes together. We will see what other opinions you get on this. If it were me I would probably discard it.

[Dusty Bannister]

A whole lot of information on checking for deteriorated powder is in the archives.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch.../t-166686.html

This is one of many links that may be beneficial.

[SlamFire1]

Gunpowder is a high energy compound breaking down to a low energy compound from the day it leaves the factory. Gunpowder lifetime is very unpredictable, but rules of thumb for powder lifetime is 20 years for double base and 45 years for single base. This will be wrong more often than right, but it is a rule of thumb. The lifetime of gunpowder is so unpredictable that first world countries spend lots of money having ammunition specialists monitor and test their stockpiles. Third world countries are so broke they just let the stuff self ignite. Just google Ammunition Depot explosions: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...epot+explosion Basically one ammunition depot is going off somewhere in the world.

As gunpowder deteriorates it outgasses fuming red nitric acid gas. That stuff eats up metal tin cans. If you have enough rust that you see rust in the air, the powder is old and deteriorating. Powder also breaks down to a dusty consistency and if you are seeing powder dust, the powder is old and deteriorated. Old gunpowder will blow up your gun due to burn rate instability. I recommend dumping your powder.

This is an excellent thread on old ammunition: When Mil Surp ammo goes bad http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-ammo-goes-bad

[Frank46]

I had a can of IMR 4320 go bad. Was going to reload with it but when I opened it up(was sealed when I bought it) had degraded and the whole inside of the can was badly rusted. And as suggested it makes good fertilizer for the lawn. Frank

[Hannibal]

There is a new set of "Stickies" in the Frequently Asked Questions section toward the top of the main Forum page. One is on powder going bad. I think you'll find it worth a look.

[243winxb]

Some Metal cans rust, some dont, even with the same lot number. Put your powder in a plastic container. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...owder-pictures

[ravelode]

Had that happen with a lite purple can of IMR 4895 once back in the early 90's. Red powder and the inside of the can rusted. It blew the extractor on my M-70 30-06, case lost the primer and had a belt. Also had to have the barrel set back as the gun would close on a no-go gauge.

[Dutchman]

[ColColt]

I think storage has all in the world to do with preservation. I have a tin can of Winchester 630 that looks and smells like it did when I bought it and no rusting on the can. I've got an 8# container of Unique(looks much like that can of RL-7) that's tin on the top and made of cardboard and it likewise looks the same. Both of those were bought sometime in the mid 70's and always kept indoors under temps of 70-75 max and no deterioration of either. An even older can of Hodgdon's 3F black powder in a tin can that goes back to around '72 still looks and smells as it did. There's probably only a couple hundred grains left in it but still good.

[Fritz D]

For what it's worth . . . I fired this group last month (Rem 40-XB-BR, .308 Win, 168gr Hor. H.P.B.T.) with some IMR 4895 that I bought in the early 80s. It was in one of the old style (purple) metal cans. The inside of the can was rusty and there was definitely "red dust" when you poured it. The powder had been stored the whole time in my house. Other than the dust, the powder looked fine, no clumping or anything like the photos in Dutchman's post.

I'm not suggesting that anyone go ahead and use powder that is obviously deteriorating . . . just saying that I've done it (with several other IMR powders too) and I'm still here to talk about it. YMMV. And yes, I am a cheap SOB.

[Char-Gar]

So I am working up different loads of 357 and I a was going to use some IMR 4227. It just so happens that I have 3 cans on my shelf and the one I started to use gave of a rusty cloud when pouring into the powder measure. So I removed it and tried a different can but did not get the cloud this time so I loaded my rounds. Should I worry about the other can? The can looks perfect no rust or dents or anything.

There is no need to over think this. Dispose of the rusty cloud powder in a safe manner. It does make a good plant fertilizer.

[.22-10-45]

Few years back, a can of IMR 4350 showed rusty dust & acrid smell..got rid of it and decided to check all cans..some from early 1970's. All were stored in wooden drawer in dry basement..one can of IMR 3031 felt hot! Check those older powders now...good way to burn down a house!

[ColColt]

I'd be interested to hear as to why it felt hot.

[prs]

There is no need to over think this. Dispose of the rusty cloud powder in a safe manner. It does make a good plant fertilizer.

But don't use it on your cabbage! Might give it a headache.

prs

[Cmm_3940]

Rusty usually means the powder is dead or dying. I would use it for fertilizer on your roses. I assume no acetone smell in the rusty can.
YMMV

I keep hearing this fertilizer thing over and over.

I've read that while black powder is high in nitrates and makes good fertilizer, this is not the case with nitroglycerine or nitrocellulose. Something about the smokeless powder not breaking down in such a way as to be useful as fertilizer. Is this not true?

[303Guy]

I'd be interested to hear as to why it felt hot.

If it was in a metal can then that would be cause for concern! If it were in a card container as some were then it would feel hot because it's an insulating material. I'm assuming it was a metal container. Powder becoming hot with age would explain the fires and explosions at old ammo storage facilities. But what would make it hot? (Obviously it's the powder decomposing but what process?)

[Cmm_3940]

Oxidation.