230gn Lead for M1 Garand?

[jkpq45]

Hi All, I have the 230gn TL309 mold from Lee and would like to cast some for the M1 Garand. Now I know most of you just spit coffee all over the keyboard, but hear me out. If I were to keep velocities low (using IMR-4895) or REALLY low (using Unique, Red Dot, or Hodgdon Clays) along with an adjustable gas plug or gas plug with interchangeable ports, what are the chances that I could: 1. Get the action to cycle properly? 2. Not bend the operating rod? Thanks for the advice.... jkpq45

[Larry Gibson]

#1.....not difficult.

#2......not probable.

Wouldn't it just be less expensive and a lot less risk to your M1 to just get a mould of proper weight for which there is a lot of load data?

Larry Gibson

[petroid]

Despite getting the action to function without breaking, you won't stabilize that bullet at a 1:10" twist unless you push it at 1800fps+

[303Guy]

How long is that boolit? I have a 258 gr boolit that is only 1.228 inches long. The JBM calculator says it would be plenty stable at 1200 fps in a 10 twist. I've found it stable at subsonic velocity.

[nagantguy]

Know a local smith has a barrel full of bent op rods that would make me advise against your idea. Pm me and I'd gladly send you some ranchdog 165 311 with the flat nose.

[petroid]

It's 1.363" long. It is designed for subsonic use with a 1:7" twist and is only marginally stable with a 1:8 at that velocity. I have heard that it needs 1800 fps for a 1:10 twist but I haven't tried it.

JBM's calculator says that boolit will be stable at 500fps in a 1:10 twist. I seriously doubt that...

[303Guy]

I think it could be stable. The bent op rods seem to be your biggest concern although I'd be interested to know why an appropriate load could not be worked up with a heavy boolit and a slow-ish powder. The rods get bent from too much pressure don't they? Or too long a pressure duration? I am very interested to know. And I'd love to know whether that boolit would really be stable at subsonic velocity. Surely such a load would have no impact on the rod?

I entered your boolit length with my boolit weight and 1000 fps and it returned a stability factor of 2.033. It only needs about 1.2 to stabilise with low muzzle blast.

[Merick]

I'd tentatively answer your questions;
1 yes with 4895 and no with quick powders
2 possible either way depending on charge

You may not have to push these too fast to get stabilization, however the beveled base and small bearing area don't prevent leading or help with accuracy. Mine drops on the small side to boot which makes things even worse. 1100-1200 fps is probably the top end before leading gets horrible unless you put some gas checks on (or tried powder coating?) Too slow-not stable, too fast-rifling strips off bearing surface-not stable and lots of lead.

Note It should only take 30-some grains of 4895 to get cycling but it may not burn cleanly. A double charge of fast powders is easy to miss and can cause dangerous chamber pressures.

[303Guy]

A double charge of fast powders is easy to miss and can cause dangerous chamber pressures.

My biggest fear! I suspect that some if not many SEE's are actually double charges and those reported SEE's are of blown actions. It doesn't even take double charges to create high pressure with fast powders. The primers don't show sudden, short and sharp pressure spikes with very fast powders but I bet the action feels them. Measuring velocity won't show them either.

4895 is supposed to burn clean at quite low pressures and with that 230 gr boolit is quite likely to burn clean. I'm not sure about loads less than 60% of case capacity, even with a heavy boolit. Fillers work but that enters a whole new dimension (one I have played with but not in a 30-06).

[Merick]

I will check charges visually. That is pretty easy with pistol cases or even rifle cases if they are fuller just by looking over the loading block. For lower charges (especially where mistakes have more consequence) I will take a small probe out of a cut off cotton swab and make a mark where it should bottom out against the charge. It isn't hard to drop it in each case and check that every charge is right.

[lefty o]

it sure wouldnt be high on my priority list, but a mild load of imr4064 or 4895 might be found, and used with an adjustable plug. M1 op rods come bent, they are supposed to be non straight, the real worry when pushing outside the known operating envelope of the M1 rifle is cracking the heel of the reciever.id personally rather not find out this way. other guns are better suited for such loadings.

[leadman]

I have that same mold and have shot it in my Contender 300 Whisper with 1 in 8 twist and my Savage 110 DL in 30-06 with 1 in 10 twist.
Accuracy in the Whisper is not the best. In the Savage it will shoot about 1 1/2" at 100 yards at 1,800 fps.
In the Savage I barely had enough room in the magazine to keep most of the bearing surface in the case neck. This is something you should check for the Garand. If I remember I will look in my notebook for the load I used. Pretty sure it was H4895.

[Frank46]

Port pressure for the Garand is something like 8000psi. And yes if the wrong powder is used it will eat op rods and crack the heel of the receiver. Powders to use would be 4895, 4064 in that range. Used to be you could find new or like new op rods at a gun show without searching very hard. Not any more. Last one I bought was almost new and cost $50 with the end of the piston at exactly .526. I have no experience using the schuster adjustable gas valve on these rifles. Frank