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Thread: Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

    I expect this will be a very short thread but here goes.

    I have been following all the coated threads and frankly they have become onerous. So the purpose of this thread is very specific. The only posts should be of coated bullets that have given groups no larger than 2 moa for 5 shots or more.

    This is being done to provide a "Cliff notes" for coated bullet performance (this comes from a well known poster who made that comment).

    Posts of "purty" rifle bullets without group data are discouraged - people looking for performance do not care how "purty" they look. Pictures of ugly bullets that meet the 2 moa threshold are OK. Pictures of "purty" bullets that shoot are OK too.

    Many people do not want to post load data due to liability concerns. If you feel this way, it is suggested that you post the powder used and velocity data. If you do not have a chronograph, post "estimated" velocity; as we can work back to get the likely charge weight. Good data will be:

    1. number of fouling shots if any
    2. coating used, how applied; time and temperature of cure
    3. Bullet used, alloy, and sized dia. - any culling criteria used (eg bullets weighed to +/- .2 gr)
    4. powder used and estimated or measured velocity
    5. Rifle used and caliber
    6. How accuracy compares to jacketed and/or traditionally lubed in the gun
    7. GC data
    8. number of shots in the group
    9. Number of groups before accuracy deteriorates.

    By limiting the thread this way we can provide a repository of "what works". People new to coatings are going to ask "stupid" questions and most will not wade through two or three 80+ page threads. So let's have a thread that is succinct and to the point.

    Although my opinion is that PC will prevail, should HT users find a coating that works, this will be a great boost to their marketing efforts. Again, no "fluff"; and keep useless banter down. Just the facts.

    I originally thought that 2200 fps should be the demarcation point but dialed it down to 1800 so some of the "thumpers" can participate.

    What works!!!

    Don Verna
    Last edited by dverna; 11-20-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    Dick I think Don is asking the question all the fence sitters wanna hear the answer to.
    will the stuff perform with accuracy or not.
    he could calm it down a notch or 2 though.

    I can get over his 2200 fps requirement with naked boolits with regular lube and maintain accuracy [on par to the rifles performance] in several rifles, regardless of the twist rate.


    so will the powder coat perform or won't it ??????
    or is it too soon to tell?

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master
    btroj's Avatar
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    Run, I think you might need to send off some bullets to a volunteer to get em powder coated. Maybe Don could do likewise.
    I think it is too soon to know for sure.
    No better way to know for sure, is there?

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy Skip62's Avatar
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    Don, if you want to send them to me, I can tumble powder coat or Klass Kote, and send them back to you. I don't load rifle, don't shoot rifle much. PM me if your interested.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    This is a great thread, guys. I've been wading through the big PC thread for a couple of days and I'm only on page 29. This is great and highly appreciated by guys like me.

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    Boolit Buddy
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    Sure didn't mean to kill it though *sigh*

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    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    I'm getting ready to test some Lee 180grain ..311 boolits in my .308
    I'm going to try sizing and installing the gas check, powder coating. then sizing again to .311
    Anyone PC over a GC?
    I'm going to shoot for 2300-2400FPS
    Hope accuracy will be there. I'll coat and load tomorrow, but not sure when I'll be able to hit the hills and test.
    My Rem.308 has a 1:10 twist
    I'm thinking 3031 or 4895 will be a good place to start.
    Waco
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

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    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Oh yeah. HF ES PC if it matters....
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hit it, waco!! Looking forward to a range report!

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    I ordered a PC gun this afternoon. I have been using PC in my vibrating tumbler and getting good results, but they weren't as pretty as I'd like. So, I'll post some pics when I get the gun set up.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Four more posts Sparky and you got yourself a nice lead boolit!!!!!!
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    waco, I have tested boolits in my 30-06 to over 2,500 fps for a 200gr. These were heat treated linotype and did ok. You are going to need a hard alloy, probably at least 20bhn from my experience. If you start to see a light gray puff of smoke out the barrel this is an indication you have reached the yield strength of the alloy. I was using the Hi-Tek coating and doing 2 coats with a modified baking. Ran the temperature of the oven up to 375 degrees, then lowered it to 325 degrees IIRC and finished out the 10 minutes. Baked twice and was able to keep a BHN of 32 from the HTd lino of 35 BHN.

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    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by leadman View Post
    waco, I have tested boolits in my 30-06 to over 2,500 fps for a 200gr. These were heat treated linotype and did ok. You are going to need a hard alloy, probably at least 20bhn from my experience. If you start to see a light gray puff of smoke out the barrel this is an indication you have reached the yield strength of the alloy. I was using the Hi-Tek coating and doing 2 coats with a modified baking. Ran the temperature of the oven up to 375 degrees, then lowered it to 325 degrees IIRC and finished out the 10 minutes. Baked twice and was able to keep a BHN of 32 from the HTd lino of 35 BHN.
    With your modified baking technique, would the cast pass the acetone/smash tests?

  14. #14
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Attachment 88616

    So here is the Lee 180grain .308 boolit. I gas checked and sized them to .311, before PC. Not sure on what powder I'll use, but I'm going to shoot for 2400-2500 FPS. I re-sized them to .311 after the PC process.
    Has anyone else PC over a GC boolit before?
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  15. #15
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Attachment 88620

    They seem to pass the smash test.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Did you follow Leadman's baking routine? I've been using 400 degrees for 10 minutes and then dropping them in water.
    BTW Waco, very nice looking bullets.

  17. #17
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    I have been doing p/c over g/c for 50 Beowulf without issue. I tried it to see what diameter I got after sizing .501. Tey ended up .5025, and shot fine, but I am now trying re-sizing and heat treating for 45 minutes at 425 deg. F. to see if the group tightens up. I am trying the same thing with the 30 cal boolits.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    I was going by what the directions on the paint said. 20 minutes @ 400 deg.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by waco View Post
    I was going by what the directions on the paint said. 20 minutes @ 400 deg.
    I do that then tried H/T later like what Popper is doing. I did notice the coating got soft again slightly at the higher temp. If you are doing heat treating you may want to go higher on temp on p/c cure, or H/T at the temp you cured at. I will see if hard, heat treated coww sized right will make the difference this week. loaded 335s, and 440s. Once that one is nailed I intend on working down to the 30 cals, then the 22 cals.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Actually I don't really have a problem with a lower temp bake cycle because I only coat for my 45ACP; 45LC; and my 44/40. My PC Gun is supposed to be here in 7 - 10 days. I hate the way that most retailers ship anymore. It's shipped FedX and they still drag it out.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check