I Am Guilty...

[W.R.Buchanan]

Fredj338 had the right answer.

It takes time for the ammonia to leach the zinc out of the brass. Treat those cases and let them sit for a few years and they will fail.

If you have used them up in a few months of shooting then it probably doesn't matter.

I have LC .30-06 Brass I am still using from the 70's. But it has never seen Brasso.

I can't understand why with so many other options you would want to use Basso. Some walnut shells and Nu finish car wax will do anything you want with no ammonia.

Randy

[DeanWinchester]

This reminds me of people who swear a pointy lead boolit (not harder jacketed bullet) will set off a primer in a tube magazine. Cast lead just won't do it. I've beat them silly with a hammer and couldn't get a primer to set off.

A lot of people cleaned a LOT of brass with brasso for many many years. I never heard it was a bad thing till I really started frequenting the Interwebz.


Does that make either a good idea? Maybe not, but a lot of truth.....isn't.

[Swede44mag]

I have reloaded aluminum cases I use them in my 45acp to hunt in the tall weeds that makes fired brass hard to find.
I have done the same for my 44mag.
As far as Brasso I have used it for years in my Dillion tumbler for years no problems yet.

[BCB]

snuffy,

The evaporation is probably correct after several uses of the media...

But the first use of it with the freshly added Brasso would not have had the ammonia evaporate at that point...

I have added media refresher and the media stays "damp" for several uses...

No, I didn't add a cupful of the stuff either...

[Uncle R.]

I used Brasso for many years in my case cleaning media and sometimes on a rag while polishing with a K-Spinner.
<
I don't any more.
<
I had no catastrophic failures, but I got some really strange looking case cracks on some old and many-times polished and reloaded .38 Special cases. They weren't just mouth splits from work hardening, those I'm familiar with. In fact this particular batch of brass had been annealed once before because I was starting to lose cases to mouth splits after nearly 20 reloads.
<
I got several more loadings after the annealing, but then cases started to show groups of jagged cracks in the bodies. The cracks didn't run the length of the case as I'd expect to see in a drawn metal object. They ran in random directions - it almost looked like broken glass.
<
This was years ago, and it was at just about the time that I first read about Brasso and case failure. I had an "Aha!" moment and stopped using Brasso in my tumbler. I realize that my experiences don't constitute proof that Brasso damages cases - but I am convinced it does.
<
YMMV.
<
Uncle R.

[pmeisel]

Nice bike! Other than that I am just listening....

[BCB]

Fredj338 had the right answer.

It takes time for the ammonia to leach the zinc out of the brass. Treat those cases and let them sit for a few years and they will fail.

If you have used them up in a few months of shooting then it probably doesn't matter.

I have LC .30-06 Brass I am still using from the 70's. But it has never seen Brasso.

I can't understand why with so many other options you would want to use Basso. Some walnut shells and Nu finish car wax will do anything you want with no ammonia.

Randy

I agree with the availability of non-ammonia products to polish with today...

Back when I started to use Brasso, there were not the choices--if there were, I didn't find them...

I actually cleaned brass by hand using Brasso and cotton cloths--time consuming but it did a very nice job...

I later just started to add a tablespoon to a full tumbler full of walnut shells...

I do use commercial polishing liquids in my tumbler now, but I still add a tablespoon of Brasso with a new batch of walnut shells...

Guess old habits are hard to break...

[Smoke4320]

Interesting...Don't tempt me with the open scissors and untied shoelaces!!! I never gave that a thought...

its even more fun when you tie the laces from the 2 shoes together before running with the scissors

[BCB]

its even more fun when you tie the laces from the 2 shoes together before running with the scissors

I got a feeling you're out to get me buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Benjlan]

I do a lot of things I'm not supposed to do. Aluminum and steel cases are among those. Grampshas always used Brasso. Perhaps some day we will experience those case failures. Not trying to get smart just observations.

[7of7]

You need to add reloading steel cases to your list.

You can't reload steel cases... Didn't anyone tell you that?

[MtGun44]

Totally irrelevant test. Ammonia cracking is a long term phenomenon, not short term.
Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it not true. The phenomenon is well
established, it is "stress-corrosion intergranular cracking". You need a significant
continuous stress on the brass at the same time you have the ammonia and some
moisture for the correct environment for cracking. Without significant stresses, it
will not occur. A belt buckle or brass plaque is in no danger. Necks with high neck
tension are at risk over a period of months to years.

Similar effects with 300 series stainless steels if welded and exposed to chlorides.
Different cause, but similar effect.

Bill

[220swiftfn]

.................................................. ............................

Um, that's not old.......



Dan

[mikeym1a]

Of doing most everything that some people “parrot” as being the biggest “no-no’s” ever know to reloaders just because they read it somewhere…

The picture is of a can of Brasso and a 30-30 Winchester case…

The case was soaked for 48 hours in a commercially available ammonia cleaner and then loaded with a 2.5 cc scoop of IMR-4831 (33-34 grains) and a 311041 was seated. CCI-200 primers were used and the boolit was heavily crimped into the case…

I fired this case 5 times and after each firing, I cleaned it with Brasso—just to add an extra dose of ammonia…

Nothing happened to the case…

SO, I soaked it for another 48 hours in the same ammonia cleaner and fired it 5 more times. And I used Brasso to clean again…

Still, no problems noted to the case. No cracks, bulges, and whatever’s. The case was full-lengthed sized each time. Plus, this case had been previously reloaded before the ammonia test…

This case has been reloaded and fired at least 15 times I would guess…

And it can be reloaded more times…

Now the ammonia test may not be proof that ammonia may only affect brass minimally as the total effect may be a slow chemical reaction and the brass may fail as time goes by—this I don’t know. But, I am planning on marking this piece of brass and putting it in my 30-30 die box and reload it sometime down the road of time—that might be more representative of the effects of ammonia…
(Never did know when to us “affect” or “effect”)

I have used Brasso in my cleaning media since I learned the “requirements” of Brasso during some time with Sam, and of the benefits of Brasso in cleaning my casings…

By the way:

I interchange primers other than listed in published data…

I use magnum primers sometimes when it calls for standard primers and visa-a-versa (is that a word?)…

I worked with powders of similar burning rates, other than listed in the data, working from the low charges upward…

I use bullet/boolits of similar weight when testing loading data from published data…

I have never used powder as fertilizers—never had any go bad…

I have mixed the same powder—an old canister that was almost done with a new canister…

I just hate it when people state things are wrong when they have never done them—only heard someone else say it or post it…

And finally, I ride an old Harley that has antique license plates, and I DO run with SCISSORS…

Good-luck…BCB

HERESY!!! Heresy, I say!!!!

[BCB]

Um, that's not old.......



Dan

30...Old enough in PA to get antique plates...

The 1st year Evo engine...

Permanent registration, No state inspections, and Less insurance costs...

But, I did have a '69 XLCH--could barely get it to start most times--parked it on a hill when available...

And a '74 XLCH--an AMF--that should have had a "junk" license plate...

And so that goes...

[BCB]

Totally irrelevant test. Ammonia cracking is a long term phenomenon, not short term.
Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it not true. The phenomenon is well
established, it is "stress-corrosion intergranular cracking". You need a significant
continuous stress on the brass at the same time you have the ammonia and some
moisture for the correct environment for cracking. Without significant stresses, it
will not occur. A belt buckle or brass plaque is in no danger. Necks with high neck
tension are at risk over a period of months to years.

Similar effects with 300 series stainless steels if welded and exposed to chlorides.
Different cause, but similar effect.

Bill

You may be correct--I don't have a degree in metal...

But, the 270 Winchester loads from 1990 do have age and I know they had Brasso used on them...

Your explaination as to how it needs to occur would be a very very isolated environment--almost one that would need to be specifically setup...

I even wonder if you would get enough reactant, ammonia, on the brass by just wipe on Brasso and then wiping it off...

Or, was the neck tension on the 270 brass not enough?...

If it takes a long time--not occurring with the 270 brass at 20+ plus years of age and that had been reloaded 6 times, I sure am not worried about it. Hell, I'll never live another 20 years. And if I do, I won't be doing any shooting...

BCB

[HABCAN]

Sir, you have published a list of absolute reloaders' heresies...........and like you, I've committed every one over many years.......and have every intention of continuing so to do. Thank you for publishing this.

The 'Brasso' thing? I've done that occasionally on 'presentation sets' of ammo..........the chemical cleaner is not on there long enough to affect anything!! Never needed it in my tumbler.

Newbies take note: EXPERIENCE trumps 'conventional wisdom', and what works for one 'loader may be dangerous for another. Just use your common sense.

[Mud Eagle]

Those steel cases do have a certain "tough" or "industrial" look to them. Does polish in the tumbler keep them from rusting?

I wet tumble in stainless pins to take the polymer or lacquer coating, I don't give them a fresh-water bath after tumbling (I just take them directly out of the soapy/dirty water), then blow them with compressed air.

There is something about the lack of fresh-water rinse that makes a difference. If I do rinse them in fresh water (what I did when I first started trying this), I do get light surface rust within a day or so on a small number of cases that could be cleaned/wiped with a rag. Without a rinse, I don't see any of it. I don't know what about having been immersed in the dirty water it is that inhibits the rust, but it seems to work that way.

I live in a somewhat humid environment, but store the cases in plastic containers or ziploc bags and haven't had any significant issues with oxidation. Of literally thousands of 223 and 45ACP cases I've worked with, only a handful (less than 10) have had to be re-tumbled because of come kind of surface rust appearing.

[StratsMan]

Jeez, how can you be a True Booliteer without having committed most of those sins?? How else ya gonna learn??

"Rules" are for people who don't want to take the time to figure out how/why things actually work. If reloading and shooting knowledge were expressed as a Bell Curve, then Convential Wisdom (ie: commercial loading data) would only be the top 5-10 percent of the top of the curve. No one would make or load their own boolits, no one would load up "reduced" loads in rifles with handgun powder, shoot duplex loads, paper patch, etc... Oh; and nobody on this forum would have any fun.

So let's continue to understand how things actually work and throw out the 10-second sound bytes of conventional wisdom...

[BCB]

Jeez, how can you be a True Booliteer without having committed most of those sins?? How else ya gonna learn??

"Rules" are for people who don't want to take the time to figure out how/why things actually work. If reloading and shooting knowledge were expressed as a Bell Curve, then Convential Wisdom (ie: commercial loading data) would only be the top 5-10 percent of the top of the curve. No one would make or load their own boolits, no one would load up "reduced" loads in rifles with handgun powder, shoot duplex loads, paper patch, etc... Oh; and nobody on this forum would have any fun.

So let's continue to understand how things actually work and throw out the 10-second sound bytes of conventional wisdom...

I agree...

That opinion has been expressed several times in this thread and it is true...