Cast bullet velocity limits?

[famdoc2892]

Obviously a newbie question, is there an upper limit for muzzle velocity to avoid leading with CBs? I like to load for 30-06, 308 and 30-30 in addition to handgun calibers, but most info found focuses on handgun loading. As a follow-up, do you compensate for the lower velocity by using a heavier bullet to maintain energy, or reduce your load for CBs overall?

[largom]

I load for rifles only, and a lot of 30 cal. My velocity usually falls between 2000 and 2400 FPS. I increase the velocity until accuracy starts to decline then back off a tad. I do the same for jacketed bullets. In most cases the accurate load is not the fastest velocity. I use my guns for hunting and a deer will not know the difference of a boolit going a couple of hundred feet per second slower. Accuracy is my goal, not speed.

Larry

[Larry Gibson]

In those 3 cartridges an upper limit for muzzle velocity to avoid leading with CBs will be a function of alloy, bullet design, lube used, powder used and fit of the bullet to the throat, along with a few other things. With regular cast bullets of lead, tin antimony alloy of any weight the best accuracy, if the barrels have 10" twists, will be in the 1700- 1950 fps range. If 12" twist barrels best accuracy will come in 1700 - 2200 fps range. Leading as such is not a function of accuracy or velocity but simply the improper use of a componant or lack of such use.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

You can shoot lead alloys at the same velocities you get from jacketed without leading. The problem is accuracy.......... or the lack of it. If you try to load conventionally, your not going to get too much accuracy. Unconventional approachs can produce what you want.

[williamwaco]

The maximum velocity achievable depends on many factors. For most it is around 2000 / 2200 fps
We have reports on this site of one user loading the .223 up to 2600 fps with good accuracy.

The best I have done personally is about 2200 fps with the .30-30 using the Lyman 311041.

You can see some leading vs velocity test results using Lee Liquid Alox at this site.

58 different loads with 15 different bullets with velocities from 700 to 1950 fps.

http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/e...a_lla_test.htm

I do not "compensate" for the lower velocity. I simply accept it and remember that the herd of 60 million American Bison was annihilated in a period of only a few years using cast bullets at much less than 2000 fps.

[1Shirt]

Lots of variables! Alloy, blt dia, blt length, blt weight, lube, primer variance, etc. etc. etc. and so forth. If looking for a max suggest that is is a trial an error deal based on your weapon, and your accuracy tollerance, etc. Suggest you start with mid vol recommended loads and work up to what ever you consider to be acceptable. Presume you have a chrono?
1Shirt!

[pdawg_shooter]

Pure lead will work to around 2200/2250. ACWW to around 2600, and a BHN of 16+ over 3000fps, IF you take the time to paper patch them.

[runfiverun]

as was said velocity isn't the issue, it's keeping accuracy.
protect the boolit at all times from casting to the end of the muzzle and you can increase both.
i don't get worked up over weights too much, i look at how the boolit and the throat mesh together.
start at about 1900 fps and work from there.

[303Guy]

My philosophy is heavier to make up for velocity but that can increase launch pressure which damages the boolit right at the get go. Harder bases and a gas check solves that. So would a slower powder or a lighter charge. Lots of variables. I've never had any accuracy with short boolits. Maybe I didn't try hard enough.

[Bret4207]

I think the believable record went to Bullshop with a 22 wildcat of some kind at 34-3500 fps. That takes a lot of work and very cast friendly gun. For the normal guy, once you figure out your fit and what the variations do to it, 24-2500 would be pretty darn good if it would hold groups. I'm pretty happy down in the 2K area, everything kicks less that way.

[1Shirt]

Yep, someplace between 1800-2200 will usually suit me just fine.
1Shirt!

[williamwaco]

I find that accuracy goes south long before leading becomes a problem.

[stubshaft]

I usually run mine between 1800 and 2400 but I shoot alot of sillywett targets. I have run 22's up to 2700 with good accuracy just for the challenge.

[MT Gianni]

I think the believable record went to Bullshop with a 22 wildcat of some kind at 34-3500 fps. That takes a lot of work and very cast friendly gun. For the normal guy, once you figure out your fit and what the variations do to it, 24-2500 would be pretty darn good if it would hold groups. I'm pretty happy down in the 2K area, everything kicks less that way.

Bullshop shot over 4000 fps with cast. He then admitted it was with a 22 sabot in a 30-06 but the projectile was cast. It's in the wording sometimes.
For me it is the trajectory that you get. 2000 fps will surely kill game, can you accurately measure range and bullet drop? AS another member says "get closer".

[waksupi]

Don't sweat velocity. It takes at least a 300fps gain in velocity level to make any real difference in trajectory. As was stated, learn how to get close.

[pdawg_shooter]

+1 on the get closer. Learn to hunt not just shoot.

[famdoc2892]

Wow, talk about a response! But it's good to hear all of you saying the same thing from your experience. To respond to a couple of your questions: I have a 30-30 load for jacketed that runs about 2100fps, and 30-06 that runs about 2400 using IMR 4895. May be able to adapt those loads, not finished/haven't run chrono on my developing 308 load. My available alloys currently are WW and Lino/Pb 50/50.

Don't have a mould yet, haven't selected a lube, still learning on those. Definitely in the market for advice! Thanks again!

[Larry Gibson]

If you cast the bullets correctly and laod tyhem correctly then with your rifles if they have 10" twists you can hold very good accuracy in the 1600 - 1950 fps range with useable hunting accuracy to perhaps 2100 fps. If the rifles have a 12' twist then very good accuracy can be in the 1600 - 2200 fps range with useable hunting accuracy a little higher.

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Bullshop shot over 4000 fps with cast. He then admitted it was with a 22 sabot in a 30-06 but the projectile was cast. It's in the wording sometimes.
For me it is the trajectory that you get. 2000 fps will surely kill game, can you accurately measure range and bullet drop? AS another member says "get closer".

Yup, I remember that, but just before he vanished he had that Cooper or whatever shooting 3400ish with no sabot involved.

[leadman]

I've gotten 3,000 fps in a 223 with good accuracy, but accuracy is better around 2,600 fps.
In my old Savage 110DL 30-06 with hard cast bullets of over 200gr weight I can get over 2,600 fps with 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. This is not a fun load to shoot so most of my loads are around 1,600 to 1,900 fps.
In my 22 K-Hornet I can shoot the 2,600 fps loads with great accuracy and no leading. A linotype boolit will really tear a jack rabbit to shreds!

For a new caster IMO the caster should start with loads on the low end and make sure all his components are doing what the should and then work up the accuracy.
Then there is the cost factor. A load of 10gr to 14grs of Unique will load alot of low velocity cartridges. The load for my 30-06 with the 200gr boolit consumes as much powder as a full bore jacketed load. Also takes a toll on my body.