Load needed for 8 x 57mm / Lee 8MM Karabiner boolit

[UBER7MM]

reetings,

I am new to the forum, this is my first post. I am looking for a 8 x 57mm load utilizing the gas checked Lee 8MM Karabiner boolit (~230 grains).

Unique, 4227 and SR-4759 seem to be popular in the older reloading manuals as rifle cast boolit powders for many loads. I'm looking for a load with a slower powder in the 4895 or 4064 burn rate range, but I haven't been able to find any published data for this boolit, or any of similar weight in this cartridge for a baseline for my load development.

The end goal to obtain a load for 100yd target shooting/plinking. I'm more interested in tight groups than velocity. Does anyone have any information, experience or recommendations with this caliber/boolit combination they might like to share?

Thank you in advance,


uber7mm

[Tedly]

Check Hogdon data site about cast bullet loads using H 4895 powder...its there somewhere...Tedly

[462]

Finding loads is one of the problems of using a special order, heavy-for-caliber boolit. You might try one of Lyman's four Cast Bullet Handbooks.

Not that it'll help you, but I just started casting for the 8 X 57, using Lee's C-324-174-1R. So far, Unique and 2400 have shown much promise.

[TCLouis]

Do a search here for that combo.

I think the info will be about 2 or three years old, but right here at the best info source around!

[Kraschenbirn]

Not the 'karabiner' but I've been shooting the Lee 329-205-1R (204 gr, water-quenched, sized to .326) in my M38 Turk using 17.5 gr 2400 in R-P cases. 50M groups run 1"-1 1/4" consistently and stay under 4" at 100M...using those darn v-notch/barlycorn post Mauser sights.

Some time back, tried the same boolit in my BRNO 98/24 over 28.0 gr H4895 with somewhat promising results but got sidetracked onto another project and never got around to doing any serious development of the load.

Bill

[ammohead]

If the carabiner is buckshots 8mm mould from a few years back, I have had good luck with a caseful of wc860. Don't get much slower burning than that. Groups were good but it left quite a bit of unburned powder in the bore.

[BoolitBill]

I have gotten good results with the Karabiner in an old nazi mauser using this load:
Case RP
Primer Win LR
Powder 16.5gr of Alliant 2400
OAL 2.820 will just touch the lands in my rifle
Karabiner boolit cast from ww lubed with LLA and gas checked, sized to .326 as my barrel slugged at .324

This load produced very good groups at 50yds, and acceptable groups at 100yds with the iron sights and my old eyes.

[excess650]

I got good groups from my Turk with 18gr AA5744 under the 250gr Lee Maximum and a 225gr custom. The Karabiner should be between these as far as weight goes.

[UBER7MM]

I've learned a few things about specialty cast boolits moulds:

1) No recommedations from the manufacturer. We're on our own with regards to load development.
2) Unique, 2400, 4227 and SR-4759 were popular 45 years ago (Lyman 44th Manual ©1967) and are still recommended today.
3) Made a lot of new friends in the casting community!


Thank you all for your support.

uber7mm

[357maximum]

Not the powder range you were seeking but my 88 commission rifle simply dotes on 15 gr unique and that boolit. It is actually the first load I tried as I was given some all loaded up by a dear friend. For 2-300 yard plinking I had to look no farther.

[frnkeore]

My only load in that range is 46.0 gr 852 (4831 speed) and a 220 gr 323471. It produced 2" groups going 2150 fps at 100 yards. For your bullet, I'd back up to 42 gr and work up or if you don't want as much recoil, work down but, I think it will probably start getting "dirty" much below 40 gr.

Frank

[UBER7MM]

My only load in that range is 46.0 gr 852 (4831 speed) and a 220 gr 323471. It produced 2" groups going 2150 fps at 100 yards. For your bullet, I'd back up to 42 gr and work up or if you don't want as much recoil, work down but, I think it will probably start getting "dirty" much below 40 gr.

Frank

Frank,

2" groups at 100yds at 2150 fps is worth investigating. I'm not familiar with 852, but I am with H4831. I hadn't considered such a "slow" burning powder for cast loads. I'll look into 42gr of H4831 as a starting point for the for the Karabiner boolit load. How hard are your boolits for such a load?

Thanks,

[frnkeore]

The bullets that I use for 2000+ velocitys are basically Lyman #2, 5% tin mixed into WW. People also have good results using ww/lino or 2 ww/1 lino.

The WC852 is surplus powder and I think it's still available but, try 4831 and let me know how it goes H450 is in that range, too. I jam the bullets as much as possible and use resized and shortened '06 military cases for a better fit in the chamber neck. The bullets were shot unsized at .325 on a .323 groove.

Frank

[Nora]

Not the powder range you were seeking but my 88 commission rifle simply dotes on 15 gr unique and that boolit.

For 2-300 yard plinking I had to look no farther.

I second this post with the exception that I use 15 gr of 2400. Haven't found anything that my "88" shoots better.

Nora

[NYBushBro]

Lyman 45th Edition gives loads for Lyman 323378 (listed as 246 gr) in the 8mm Mauser using 12-14 gr. Unique, 16-20 gr. 2400, and 17-21 gr. IMR-4227.

"Accuracy Load" listed was 16.0 grains of 2400 @1342 fps. (Ed Harris' standard load for mil-surps.)

They also list jacketed loads for 225 gr. bullets.

NOTE: I believe this manual was printed around 1970 or thereabouts... so please double-check all figures (in case of typo's) and obtain sound advice from an experienced reloader before proceeding.

[NYBushBro]

CAVEAT 1: The manual states that the listed loads in Lyman #45 are NOT to be used in rifles with .318" bores.

CAVEAT 2: In one of my manuals, it also recommends that 8mm brass made from 30-06 be loaded down 2 grains less than loads listed for commercial brass!

[Nora]

CAVEAT 1: The manual states that the listed loads in Lyman #45 are NOT to be used in rifles with .318" bores.

This does bring up a very important note!
I'm not sure what the Lyman #45 saids at all, I don't have a copy but almost all of the GEW 1888's and the GEW 1888/05's have a .318" bore. Mine included. All boolits MUST be sizes accordingly. Mine will shoot up to 22 gr of 2400 with out any signs of excess pressure BUT I only feed it soft cast sized to .320" NO EXCEPTIONS! Not all guns will like this much steam and would say work your load up VERY slowly if you feel the need to try it with something that old. I must also say I worked this load up that high once and have since been using my 15 gr load, it's cheaper and more accurate anyway.

Nora

[Old Iron Sights]

I loaded some IMR 4895 with 175 gr CB from a lee mold for my brother's and my mausers. His turk and RC liked 32.5 gr the best while mine shot better with 33. Your mileage may very.
Loads were fairly mild but still sealed the case necks.

[frnkeore]

I hate to be picky here but, "almost all of the GEW 1888's and the GEW 1888/05's have a .318" bore." ,just isn't true! The only reason I bring it up is because the groove diameter can and will effect pressure and of all milsurp's this is the one that needs to be sluged the most.

My three, I pick up at totally different places. First one on GunBroker from the mid west, second at a local pawn shop and the third at a gun show 100 miles from me. All three have grooves that are with in .0005 of .321 groove diameter. If you read the comments of the serious 88 collectors, you'll find that the over welming majority of original 88's are very near .321.

The Turk 88 35/38 and the ones rebarrel in Czech for South America, and mostly imported by Western Scrounger, being the biggest exceptions.

Frank

[Good Cheer]

Before mine was rebarreled in 1982 the old and really worn rounded land barrel was .323". Hoch put a strictly cast bullet .324 on it. What a joy to have a .32 caliber long sight radius wheel weight chunker.
Used to live near a shooting range back then that was built into the back of an ice house. Friendly wagers on a cold one? Oh yeah.