gonna buy a lathe

[skimmerhead]

i'm fininaly gonna break down and buy one. i would appreciate any advice from you more knowagble folks on selecting a machine. i want a lathe and later a mill. i don't want to spend my money twice, thats why i'm asking you guys. right now i'm looking at an enco 13x40 geared-head gap bed lathe. but will be looking at other brands, as i think this is the size machine i want to go with. any advise will be well recieved. thanks

skimmerhead:lovebooli

[hickstick_10]

whats your price range?

[skimmerhead]

whats your price range?

max 5-k

[hickstick_10]

I have no idea what the used machinery situation is in Golden meadow La. Cajun Country so this is just me listing stuff.

5k is goodly sum for a hobby lathe, and will get you a "real" machine.

First off il say the low dollar imports, IE Enco, Jet, Grizzly and harbour freight and so forth and so on, can be all painted with the same brush in that they are low grade hobbiest ****. Included are some (but not all) the reasons these lathes are not used in real shops.

1. Bad electrics if they are anything more complex then a self contained motor turning a belt, those ultra safe safety lock switches are the first thing to break.

1. Handwheels are cheap and break, dials are cheap, apron gears can and do strip.

1. Some I've seen have gears so badly cut in the gear head models that it was almost impossible to change speeds.

I could go on but il say that all the said brands serve their owners well, if not pushed and cared for as well as used lightly. These machines are HOBBIEST GRADE, just because it has a sticker that says "Pro Model" doesn't mean thats the case. There's a reason no serious machine shop uses these things. There is no difference in buying one of these "lathes" and purchasing a 15 dollar 180 peice combo wrench set-----not for serious use.

But your in luck, as you have a good budget for the lathe (im assuming 5 k includes some tooling youl need), unfortunately its a little low to buy new "real grade" but no big deal.

So heres some good used brands in that size to look for used. Reason I advocate buying used is because 5 grand new will get you a junker that you wont be satisfied having put 5000 hard earned dollars into. Anyways heres a partial list.
Kingston, Mori Seki, Mazak, colchester (parts are expensive), clausing, Monarch, Boxford and the list goes on and on and all it takes is a little internet searching.

Things to looks for.

Simplicity: The old style southbend lathes used cone pulleys and belts for speed changes, while you may not like this archaic method this system is very simple and relatively cheap to fix. Blow a bushing or ruin a gear somewhere in the train of a gear head, and get ready for a headache and you can pay the big bills to reapir it just like a real machine shop does [smilie=b:.

Change gear machines are tedious: Want to slow down a cut? Speed it up for a facing cut? Set up a threading train wrong? Well get ready to swing open that cover and juggle 4-5 gears, and wrench (possibly 2) and an oil can to change the gear train.

Consider something slightly larger if it comes your way: Bigger machines are not popular with hobbiests, and the size you specify is just touching the end of there comfort zone, because anything bigger may require machinery movers and some slight work to get in their toy room to tinker on, thus making them MUCH cheaper.

Paint condition is meaningless: Machinery.........like women are much more interesting the dirtier they are and the less duds they are wearing. If you buy a used "real" machine, it will likely be FILTHY its been used in a dirty shop that demands production and doesn't allow more then a casual sweeping and a rub down with a rag once in awhile.

Be patients if you go this route: you could have an Enco lathe in a week at your demand if you wanted it, but it may not outlast you, and it certainly will be fit only for the junk heap in 10+ years if you use it in any capacity.

So short version:
1. Buy a used professional grade and name brand machine
2. Must have quick change gearbox
3. Bigger used lathes, are usually cheaper to purchase.
4. Pic a lathe thats simple to fix (example: the old southbend or sheldon style lathe) usually a belt drive with back gears.
5. don't write off a machine because its dirty
6. Don't buy the first one you see, be patient.

[skimmerhead]

I have no idea what the used machinery situation is in Golden meadow La. Cajun Country so this is just me listing stuff.

5k is goodly sum for a hobby lathe, and will get you a "real" machine.

First off il say the low dollar imports, IE Enco, Jet, Grizzly and harbour freight and so forth and so on, can be all painted with the same brush in that they are low grade hobbiest ****. Included are some (but not all) the reasons these lathes are not used in real shops.

1. Bad electrics if they are anything more complex then a self contained motor turning a belt, those ultra safe safety lock switches are the first thing to break.

1. Handwheels are cheap and break, dials are cheap, apron gears can and do strip.

1. Some I've seen have gears so badly cut in the gear head models that it was almost impossible to change speeds.

I could go on but il say that all the said brands serve their owners well, if not pushed and cared for as well as used lightly. These machines are HOBBIEST GRADE, just because it has a sticker that says "Pro Model" doesn't mean thats the case. There's a reason no serious machine shop uses these things. There is no difference in buying one of these "lathes" and purchasing a 15 dollar 180 peice combo wrench set-----not for serious use.

But your in luck, as you have a good budget for the lathe (im assuming 5 k includes some tooling youl need), unfortunately its a little low to buy new "real grade" but no big deal.

So heres some good used brands in that size to look for used. Reason I advocate buying used is because 5 grand new will get you a junker that you wont be satisfied having put 5000 hard earned dollars into. Anyways heres a partial list.
Kingston, Mori Seki, Mazak, colchester (parts are expensive), clausing, Monarch, Boxford and the list goes on and on and all it takes is a little internet searching.

Things to looks for.

Simplicity: The old style southbend lathes used cone pulleys and belts for speed changes, while you may not like this archaic method this system is very simple and relatively cheap to fix. Blow a bushing or ruin a gear somewhere in the train of a gear head, and get ready for a headache and you can pay the big bills to reapir it just like a real machine shop does [smilie=b:.

Change gear machines are tedious: Want to slow down a cut? Speed it up for a facing cut? Set up a threading train wrong? Well get ready to swing open that cover and juggle 4-5 gears, and wrench (possibly 2) and an oil can to change the gear train.

Consider something slightly larger if it comes your way: Bigger machines are not popular with hobbiests, and the size you specify is just touching the end of there comfort zone, because anything bigger may require machinery movers and some slight work to get in their toy room to tinker on, thus making them MUCH cheaper.

Paint condition is meaningless: Machinery.........like women are much more interesting the dirtier they are and the less duds they are wearing. If you buy a used "real" machine, it will likely be FILTHY its been used in a dirty shop that demands production and doesn't allow more then a casual sweeping and a rub down with a rag once in awhile.

Be patients if you go this route: you could have an Enco lathe in a week at your demand if you wanted it, but it may not outlast you, and it certainly will be fit only for the junk heap in 10+ years if you use it in any capacity.

So short version:
1. Buy a used professional grade and name brand machine
2. Must have quick change gearbox
3. Bigger used lathes, are usually cheaper to purchase.
4. Pic a lathe thats simple to fix (example: the old southbend or sheldon style lathe) usually a belt drive with back gears.
5. don't write off a machine because its dirty
6. Don't buy the first one you see, be patient.
thank you for your reply, i'm not that much in a hurry as i've been talking about this for 15 years. i have started to look along the lines you have outlinded my ideal would be a southbend or any of the others you outlined. i would prefer a 3 phase. so far the ones i've found are so rusted i think there toast. the market here is very small at best being a small town. but i will continue to search. ithank you for your help and info. plus i have plenty room to put. back truck to the door and slide her in, 24x32 cement slab.

thank you skimmerhead

[dragonrider]

Too bad you don't live here in New England, You would not have to look for long to find what you want. Probably the only reason anyone would want to live here.

[akajun]

Skimmerhread

I know of a couple silencer manufactuers that use the ENCO brand lathes. These guys are professional machinists who work at machine shops, and have these lathes at their home where they run their class 3 operations. They seem to work fine for them.tc customs in Central is one of them.
That said, if you want American, check Craigslist in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and also Ebay in the same areas. Clausing, southbend, atlas lathes all pop up fairly regularly.
I just bought an atlas 12x36 like new for $1000 out of Prarieville.

[skimmerhead]

Too bad you don't live here in New England, You would not have to look for long to find what you want. Probably the only reason anyone would want to live here.

c'mon man, your making me laugh with that! i heard it don't get cold over there!


skimmerhead:mrgreen:

[skimmerhead]

Skimmerhread

I know of a couple silencer manufactuers that use the ENCO brand lathes. These guys are professional machinists who work at machine shops, and have these lathes at their home where they run their class 3 operations. They seem to work fine for them.tc customs in Central is one of them.
That said, if you want American, check Craigslist in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and also Ebay in the same areas. Clausing, southbend, atlas lathes all pop up fairly regularly.
I just bought an atlas 12x36 like new for $1000 out of Prarieville.

will give it a go see what i find, thanks for the tip.

skimmerhead

[ph4570]

I have had an clausing/atlas 12x36 for about 25 years. Bought it as NOS still in the shipping crate. It has served me well.

[deltaenterprizes]

Skimmerhread


I just bought an atlas 12x36 like new for $1000 out of Prarieville.

Making aluminum supressor parts does not require much accuracy or power. They can be .005" tolerance.
Atlas is home shop quality,you got what you paid for. read above post.
Atlas has flat ways and uses the lead screw for threading and feeding causing it to wear quickly. The gears are also not top quality.

[Dutchman]

Birmingham 12x36 gear head. Bought it new in 2005. No complaints. It wasn't my first lathe. Been at this 30 yrs. Sub-.001" accuracy. Same as Enco & Grizzly.

http://images45.fotki.com/v1424/photos/2/28344/6717603/sq12-vi.jpg

[dragonrider]

Ya it gets cold enough 0 or less sometimes, generaly the climate here is quite nice. But I was referin to our political climate which generaly sucks. BTW if you are looking spend around $5000, here you could a lathe, a mill, enough tooling and get change back.

[John Taylor]

I bought a new Birmingham 14X40 a few years back, It is a good lathe . If you are thinking gunsmith I would look at the Grizzly gun smith lathe, http://www.grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G

Dutchman, your shop is to clean!

[quasi]

you don't need a Monarch to do gunsmithing work. Most professional gunsmiths use asian lathes.

[David2011]

Skimmerhead,

You might look around Houma, too. There are LOTS of machine shops in the area. I've been using some fairly new Enco milling machines in our college gunsmithing class that I like pretty well and we have a Vectrax lathe from MSC (RA071-3PH) that is very nice to use. Both have DROs. We have a bunch of 13" South Bend lathes as well. The South Bends get more use than the Vectrax even though it only has a few hours on it. The South Bends are more intuitive to most of the guys. They have Morse Taper #5 spindles with a big enough bore to put any rifle barrel other than a 2" blank through the spindle and they have plenty of power.

David

[hickstick_10]

you don't need a Monarch to do gunsmithing work. Most professional gunsmiths use asian lathes.

Agreed, but they'd use a Monarch if they could afford one.

[skimmerhead]

i have no desire to become a gunsmith, not that there is anything wrong with being a gun smith it's 25 years too late, i do not want to do production work! i am retired, if i wanted to do that i would get a big lathe and all my friends would keep me busy working 10 hours a day, 7 days a week for free. so i'll just get me something to do my little projects with around the house. and if i get bored and have nothing to do, i'm sure a phone call will get me up to my ears in projects. i am enjoying all the post i'm getting on this project and want to thank all of you who have posted, and to any future post. i am in your debt. thanks


skimmerhead :lovebooli

[Dutchman]

I bought a new Birmingham 14X40 a few years back, It is a good lathe . If you are thinking gunsmith I would look at the Grizzly gun smith lathe, http://www.grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G

Dutchman, your shop is to clean!

That picture is 2 yrs old:). You should see it now. I'll try and do some photos next week, sort of a photo shop tour. It's a small shop so it's real cozy but I really like it.

This month I have a 7" South Bend shaper coming from Oklahoma and an ancient 20th Century arc welder, big old copper coils 180 amp monster. And a bunch of box tubing. I gas weld but have no arc welder presently.

I considered the 14x40 when I bought my 12x36. I was downsizing from a 1903 Von Wyck 15x60. I didn't figure the little bit more capacity would make a difference so I went with the 12x36.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

I've shown these before but what the heck..

I have 2 vertical mills, too.

Index Model 40H mfg 1942 Jackson, Michigan. Was sold to Douglas Aircraft to build airplanes for the navy. I've owned it since 1983-4 or so. 1,200 pounds. Has a 1/4 hp motor and I've rarely needed more power.

I really think if you're going to have a lathe that you need a mill. You can do some milling on the lathe but sooner or later you'll outgrow that limitation. Used mills aren't all that bad. I can't imagine life without a lathe & mill but I'm funny that way. They are worth saving the bucks for. And they are worth selling guns to buy. I sold a lot of guns to buy some of this stuff. I use the machinery more and get more out of it.

http://images19.fotki.com/v33/photos/2/28344/474753/m6-vi.jpg

Enco 1993 Model 1525 "baby bridgeport". I like it. I've been running it for over 1 1/2 yrs now. Bought it used $1700 and shipped it from Wisconsin. 3 phase 10 speed.

http://images51.fotki.com/v423/photos/4/28344/7321255/DSCF8867gh-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

The Grizzly 4003G wasn't out yet when I bought my Birmingham or yes, I would've bought it.

The 4003G has four primary features that set it above the 4003 and the Birmingham.

1- beefier spindle being D1-5 with 6 pins instead of D1-4 with 3 pins.

2- different/better spindle bearings

3- tailstock clamping via torque wrench

4- cabinet stand is much better than the 4003 and Birmingham

I think those are the only differences. Everything else is the same as the 4003 and my Birmingham 12x36.

Steve Bedair has one of the 4003G. He's a gun guy. I've had email with him about his Grizzly mill as it's the same as mine except his is 1 phase 5 speed. (I like mine better).

http://bedair.org/Grizzly12x/GrizzlyG4003G.html

his mill
http://bedair.org/Mill/6760mill.html

Once you hit 13" swing on a lathe the $$$ starts climbing. I could've gotten the 14x40 but didn't see a real point to it. I'd lived 30 years with a 15x60 so I knew what you could and couldn't do with either. With an antique 15x60 there's very little you can't do as long as you can figure out a way to chuck it up or attach it to a face plate. I machined the front hub of a Ford F250 4x4 once. That dude was pretty heavy and big but the 10" Union 3 jaw chuck took it in stride.

These smaller lathes like the 12x36 are not heavy duty lathes. The Atlas 10x36" that I owned for 25 years was capable of good work. It was a light duty lathe but could do a great deal. The 4003 and Birmingham are "semi-medium" duty lathes. Certainly capable of more grunt work than the Atlas but nothing like the bigger beefier lathes. I've run 18" LeBlond in college and I think that was the biggest I've run. Big lathes are fun.

Buying used American iron is risky. My Von Wyck was only 75 years old when I bought it in 1979 but it had a lot of wear and tear on it but it cost only $500 in '79. Best money I ever spent, too. But older South Bend and Logan and those are/were great machines. But you might have to spend a great deal of time repairing older machines. There was no place to buy parts for the Von Wyck so either I made it or adapted something or did without. Fortunately in 30 years of use I didn't need anything major.

You need to research an awful lot if you were going to shop for a used South Bend Heavy 10, for example. I'd prefer a 14" or 18" South Bend. You could machine truck brake drums on a 18" lathe. I did disc rotors on the Von Wyck but it was close.

For a couple years I also had a Clausing 6300 12x36 lathe in my home shop. My brother bought it and I ended up with it. It was a very accurate lathe. The Birmingham sort of emulates the Clausing. But the Clausing 6300 was a very nice lathe. The earlier 4900 and... there was one other model.. they are also very accurate and capable machines. But to find one that doesn't need some upkeep.... maybe not so easy. A really nice 6300 could run $3,500 still. And they're fairly old lathes now. The 4900 even older.

this is the Clausing 6300. I had the variable drive setup.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html

LeBlond Regal. 19". This is the one I used in college. FYI My Von Wyck 1903 was made with a LeBlond patented carriage drive. The co-owner, Roach, was the superintendant at LeBlond at the turn of the 20th century. The Von Wyck was a very good lathe.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/regal/page5.html

It wouldn't hurt to spend a lot of time reading the lathes.co.uk website. It is the most awsum machinery website in the world. My old Index mill is featured on this page: http://www.lathes.co.uk/blankbuxton/

Here's a pretty clean South Bend 10". $1800. I have no doubt it's a very decent lathe. But will a 10" lathe give you the capacity for what you may want in the future?

http://cgi.ebay.com/South-Bend-Lathe-10-Swing-1-2-Hp-G-E-Motor-/200478876235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ead78e24b

Another Heavy 10" South Bend. I wouldn't be afraid to buy this one and plug it in and start turning. You'll learn as you go.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-South-Bend-Lathe-made-1942-so-PickUP-only-/230532177139?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35acc9dcf3

12x30 Hendley.. pretty good looking. $4100. But a very beefy lathe. I would say this has twice the beef as the 4003G.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-ENGINE-LATHE-14-SWING-/260588960711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cac4ffbc7

LeBlond Regal $1100 start bid. 14X42". I'll say this much: At least it's CLEAN. It's BEEN cleaned. Some are fithy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-ENGINE-LATHE-14-SWING-/260588960711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cac4ffbc7

14x48 Clausing. Very clean. $4750. You see? American = $$$$$.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-VARIABLE-SPEED-14-x-48-METAL-LATHE-/110593002814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bfdb4d3e

15x42 LeBlond Regal mfg 1964. This dude is very nice, very clean, very well taken care of. It's also $5950. Is it worth that? Yes, I think so. Of course it's been painted but it was painted nicely, carefully and the ways look very nice. It also has DRO. When you get done looking that $6000 isn't all that much more than a new Chinese 14x40. I rather like this one:). Study the carriage and compound surfaces. It's not beat up or abused. That's the kind of thing you look for in a used lathe. Abuse and neglect. This LeBlond is darn nice for just coming across it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/15-x-42-cc-LEBLOND-Regal-Engine-Lathe-64-/130432263873?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5e5e66c1

Here's an old Cincinnati 15x54" for $100 starting bid. A HUNDRED bucks. It's in Paramount, Calif. That's by Compton... Inglewood... places you'd need a gun to visit:). I was born in Inglewood.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cincinnati-lathe-15-x-54-/280568923918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415336070e

Another darn clean LeBlond 15" Regal $3500.

http://cgi.ebay.com/15-LeBlond-Regal-Lathe-Servo-Shifter-6-jaw-chuck-/370432072529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563f78db51

And finally... a totally cool Monarch 15". $1800 BUY-IT-NOW and darn nice looking for a lathe that old. This is a flat belt lathe. The headstock is very simple. It looks like a 6 speed back-geared lathe. This is a very capable lathe. Very heavy duty. Much beef. This could be as late as 1940s era World War 2. I'm not up on the dating of these but they are a very well thought of lathe.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MONARCH-LATHE-15-x-30-/300471124343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f5798177

Older used lathes you have to know what can go wrong and how to find parts and fix it. Or you need somebody experienced to shop with you. Finding a use lathe via a machine shop that wants to get rid of one is not a bad way to go as long as you can take somebody with you and spend sometime inspecting it UNDER POWER.

And this is why lathes like the 4003G sell so good.

Dutch

[JFrench]

I don't know your experiance level but I bought a manual (How to run a Lathe) published by Southbend when I got my lathe thirty years ago. It was good reading then and it is good today. Try ebay or amazon to find one. I have worked using a Southbend, Le Blond, and Powermatic. I currently own a 12X36 Craftsman lathe made by Atlas tools. The Atlas has flat ways but it has always produced accurate cuts.
James

Good Luck.

[skimmerhead]

The Grizzly 4003G wasn't out yet when I bought my Birmingham or yes, I would've bought it.

The 4003G has four primary features that set it above the 4003 and the Birmingham.

1- beefier spindle being D1-5 with 6 pins instead of D1-4 with 3 pins.

2- different/better spindle bearings

3- tailstock clamping via torque wrench

4- cabinet stand is much better than the 4003 and Birmingham

I think those are the only differences. Everything else is the same as the 4003 and my Birmingham 12x36.

Steve Bedair has one of the 4003G. He's a gun guy. I've had email with him about his Grizzly mill as it's the same as mine except his is 1 phase 5 speed. (I like mine better).

http://bedair.org/Grizzly12x/GrizzlyG4003G.html

his mill
http://bedair.org/Mill/6760mill.html

Once you hit 13" swing on a lathe the $$$ starts climbing. I could've gotten the 14x40 but didn't see a real point to it. I'd lived 30 years with a 15x60 so I knew what you could and couldn't do with either. With an antique 15x60 there's very little you can't do as long as you can figure out a way to chuck it up or attach it to a face plate. I machined the front hub of a Ford F250 4x4 once. That dude was pretty heavy and big but the 10" Union 3 jaw chuck took it in stride.

These smaller lathes like the 12x36 are not heavy duty lathes. The Atlas 10x36" that I owned for 25 years was capable of good work. It was a light duty lathe but could do a great deal. The 4003 and Birmingham are "semi-medium" duty lathes. Certainly capable of more grunt work than the Atlas but nothing like the bigger beefier lathes. I've run 18" LeBlond in college and I think that was the biggest I've run. Big lathes are fun.

Buying used American iron is risky. My Von Wyck was only 75 years old when I bought it in 1979 but it had a lot of wear and tear on it but it cost only $500 in '79. Best money I ever spent, too. But older South Bend and Logan and those are/were great machines. But you might have to spend a great deal of time repairing older machines. There was no place to buy parts for the Von Wyck so either I made it or adapted something or did without. Fortunately in 30 years of use I didn't need anything major.

You need to research an awful lot if you were going to shop for a used South Bend Heavy 10, for example. I'd prefer a 14" or 18" South Bend. You could machine truck brake drums on a 18" lathe. I did disc rotors on the Von Wyck but it was close.

For a couple years I also had a Clausing 6300 12x36 lathe in my home shop. My brother bought it and I ended up with it. It was a very accurate lathe. The Birmingham sort of emulates the Clausing. But the Clausing 6300 was a very nice lathe. The earlier 4900 and... there was one other model.. they are also very accurate and capable machines. But to find one that doesn't need some upkeep.... maybe not so easy. A really nice 6300 could run $3,500 still. And they're fairly old lathes now. The 4900 even older.

this is the Clausing 6300. I had the variable drive setup.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html

LeBlond Regal. 19". This is the one I used in college. FYI My Von Wyck 1903 was made with a LeBlond patented carriage drive. The co-owner, Roach, was the superintendant at LeBlond at the turn of the 20th century. The Von Wyck was a very good lathe.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/regal/page5.html

It wouldn't hurt to spend a lot of time reading the lathes.co.uk website. It is the most awsum machinery website in the world. My old Index mill is featured on this page: http://www.lathes.co.uk/blankbuxton/

Here's a pretty clean South Bend 10". $1800. I have no doubt it's a very decent lathe. But will a 10" lathe give you the capacity for what you may want in the future?

http://cgi.ebay.com/South-Bend-Lathe-10-Swing-1-2-Hp-G-E-Motor-/200478876235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ead78e24b

Another Heavy 10" South Bend. I wouldn't be afraid to buy this one and plug it in and start turning. You'll learn as you go.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-South-Bend-Lathe-made-1942-so-PickUP-only-/230532177139?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35acc9dcf3

12x30 Hendley.. pretty good looking. $4100. But a very beefy lathe. I would say this has twice the beef as the 4003G.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-ENGINE-LATHE-14-SWING-/260588960711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cac4ffbc7

LeBlond Regal $1100 start bid. 14X42". I'll say this much: At least it's CLEAN. It's BEEN cleaned. Some are fithy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HENDEY-12-X-30-ENGINE-LATHE-14-SWING-/260588960711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cac4ffbc7

14x48 Clausing. Very clean. $4750. You see? American = $$$$$.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CLAUSING-VARIABLE-SPEED-14-x-48-METAL-LATHE-/110593002814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bfdb4d3e

15x42 LeBlond Regal mfg 1964. This dude is very nice, very clean, very well taken care of. It's also $5950. Is it worth that? Yes, I think so. Of course it's been painted but it was painted nicely, carefully and the ways look very nice. It also has DRO. When you get done looking that $6000 isn't all that much more than a new Chinese 14x40. I rather like this one:). Study the carriage and compound surfaces. It's not beat up or abused. That's the kind of thing you look for in a used lathe. Abuse and neglect. This LeBlond is darn nice for just coming across it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/15-x-42-cc-LEBLOND-Regal-Engine-Lathe-64-/130432263873?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5e5e66c1

Here's an old Cincinnati 15x54" for $100 starting bid. A HUNDRED bucks. It's in Paramount, Calif. That's by Compton... Inglewood... places you'd need a gun to visit:). I was born in Inglewood.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cincinnati-lathe-15-x-54-/280568923918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415336070e

Another darn clean LeBlond 15" Regal $3500.

http://cgi.ebay.com/15-LeBlond-Regal-Lathe-Servo-Shifter-6-jaw-chuck-/370432072529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563f78db51

And finally... a totally cool Monarch 15". $1800 BUY-IT-NOW and darn nice looking for a lathe that old. This is a flat belt lathe. The headstock is very simple. It looks like a 6 speed back-geared lathe. This is a very capable lathe. Very heavy duty. Much beef. This could be as late as 1940s era World War 2. I'm not up on the dating of these but they are a very well thought of lathe.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MONARCH-LATHE-15-x-30-/300471124343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f5798177

Older used lathes you have to know what can go wrong and how to find parts and fix it. Or you need somebody experienced to shop with you. Finding a use lathe via a machine shop that wants to get rid of one is not a bad way to go as long as you can take somebody with you and spend sometime inspecting it UNDER POWER.

And this is why lathes like the 4003G sell so good.

Dutch

thank you Dutch, this is a very impressive post and will take all info into consideration, my biggest problem is not finding a used lathe, its finding one that will ship. 99% of what i find says local pickup only, no shipping. for me two three hundred miles is ok but a 1000 or so miles no way i can do it. but i'll keep looking, you can't find it unless you look for it. i have some friends in the trucking business here hauling oilfield stuff.i think maybe it's time to call in some old favors. thanks guys. skimmerhead

[jmh54738]

A friend in MN just called me. Wants to find a new home for his 14 x 42 Jet gear head with collets, 3 and 4 jaw, steady rest,etc. I don't need another lathe. PM if interested. I have heard that they are a step above Enco, but I don't personally know that. Are they??
John

[Dutchman]

When I bought the Birmingham from Bill's Tool Crib I lived in northern Indiana. Bill's is in Henderson, Nevada (a forlorn place if there ever was one). It cost $300 freight down the dirt road in front of my house in a truck with no liftgate (yes, I paid for lift gate delivery). It took my neighbor's front loader tractor.... in the rain.... and a couple of cargo straps to get it off and in the shop. Overall it wasn't that bad.

When I bought my used mill from Wisconsin I was living here in northern Calif. It cost $500 to ship it freight. Overall I didn't mind as I knew the fellow I purchased it from and the price was decent.

If I were you... I'd seriously check out this Jet 14x42 via jmh54738 and do it soon.

The reason I listed all those used ebay lathes is to give you an idea of what it's like to shop for a used lathe and what you would come up against. I'm not afraid of used lathes but in the end I decided on the new Birmingham. I've not been sorry. I made my own 5C handwheel collet closer and I'll soon be fabricating a ER40 lathe chuck for it. I paid $2,000 for the Birmingham in March 2005.

Dutch

[hickstick_10]

A friend in MN just called me. Wants to find a new home for his 14 x 42 Jet gear head with collets, 3 and 4 jaw, steady rest,etc. I don't need another lathe. PM if interested. I have heard that they are a step above Enco, but I don't personally know that. Are they??
John

I'l have to respectfully disagree with Dutchman

If you get a ridiculously good price on the Jet, by all means purchase it, then sell it for profit.

But considering a Jet a step above an Enco is like considering a kick in the rear end a step up from a kick in the balls. Neather choice ends in a harmonious outcome.


If you got a good "lathe egg" stowed away, save it for something a little nicer besides a used Jet lathe.

[jmh54738]

So, the Jet IS better than an Enco as Hickstick stated with such taste and eloquence. I wonder what brand of lathe he spends HIS money on. Not everyone needs a Monarch nor has the money for a high end lathe. As a tool and diemaker, I spent the last five years of my career in a shop that had two Enco lathes, a 14" and a 20" , and an Enco mill (Bridgeport sized) that were used daily in heavy service, with no breakdowns and producing close tolerance work (With DRO). Oh yea, my personal lathes..........18" LeBlonde, 14" Reed-Prentice, 16" Hendey, and a 33" German Weipert (25 HP, 6MT, 52 speeds, elec. brake, elec. clutch, elec. jog, inch, metric, DP, and modular, 3" spindle hole, and taper attachment, auto oiling, two speed tailstock spindle, etc.

[hickstick_10]

So, the Jet IS better than an Enco as Hickstick stated with such taste and eloquence. I wonder what brand of lathe he spends HIS money on. Not everyone needs a Monarch nor has the money for a high end lathe. As a tool and diemaker, I spent the last five years of my career in a shop that had two Enco lathes, a 14" and a 20" , and an Enco mill (Bridgeport sized) that were used daily in heavy service, with no breakdowns and producing close tolerance work (With DRO). Oh yea, my personal lathes..........18" LeBlonde, 14" Reed-Prentice, 16" Hendey, and a 33" German Weipert (25 HP, 6MT, 52 speeds, elec. brake, elec. clutch, elec. jog, inch, metric, DP, and modular, 3" spindle hole, and taper attachment, auto oiling, two speed tailstock spindle, etc.

If you must know a Myford super 7B (quick change gear box model) is my house lathe.

I bought it on the factory stand, with 2 chucks, centers, steady rests, 5 gallon pale of tool bits and another pail of morse taper drills for 1000 bucks bout 3 years ago. Price of a new one is well beyond mine and most peoples budget for hobby use. But its a quality machine that I can take with me whenever I move, which was a big factor in choosing my own lathe.

It was a smoking deal, because I was patient and waited and didn't hop on the first lathe that wizzed by. I to was staring with lust at the jet machinery that was within my budget during the searching phase. But patience always wins out.


Back when I was machining for a living (Engineering student now) we used mostly 36" x 120" kingstons or Mazaks, I've used nardinis, dean smith and grace, southbends (I actually dont like them that much) and jets. In heavy use, in my experience, Jets or other similar makes do not hold up. How do I know?After they both gave up the ghost at one shop they were converted to other uses. Ones used to bevel pipe for the welders and the others used for tungsten spray welding because the electrics got toast, the machines are non rigid and the apron gears are stripped. In all fairness these Jets were used in much heavier machining than I beleive was intended for them and as I said before, Jet machines or Enco are entirely servicable, but if you can get something better then go for it.

There are better machines then Jet or Enco for the money, its a fact I dont even understand why this is debatable.

As a journeyman machinist (its what you call a guy who did his 4 year apprenticeship in Canada) I also know a thing or two about lathes and it is my humble opinion that any shop that uses hobbyist grade machines for industrial work is not much of a shop at all (do you use grizzly surface grinders in your tool and die shop as well? :), you should since they're "just as good") (the only place I have EVER seen an Enco used for business was a back country auto/farm repair shop). But that's besides the point, the OP wants a quality machine that he will buy once, he's willing to spend money for something that will work for MACHINING, not just gunsmithing. You know as well as I do that a Enco/grizzly/whatever of an equal size will never hold a candle to say a used leblond or kingston or Colchester or Mori Seki, which is well withing his budget on the used market.

The man wants the best machine for his 5 grand budget, an Enco is not it, its servicable without a doubt, but not the best for the dollar.

I understand some may get offended when they perceive there toy to be "insulted" well it wasn't, its merely a fact they're designed for garage tinkerers (hence why they're so cheap)and theres nothing wrong with that. But the OP wants the "best" so to speak, its foolish to point in any direction besides that.

Perhaps its because I look at a lathe from a machinist standpoint? I dunno. It makes no sense really to keep defending Enco, as used manual machines can be found for dirt cheap. Its also a fact that the name brand grades are usually much more rigid then the enco/grizzly/cheap asian grade, something that matters if you really want to bore deep or hog big cuts.

No not everyone needs a Monarch for tinkering, it was just one of the several brands I listed. but given a choice between a 5000 dollar Enco and a good condition 5000 dollar Mori Seki or kingston (Im not prejudiced against Asian machines) only a fool would choose an Enco.

This reminds me of people who defend the **** they buy at Walmart as a "good bargain", its still **** people.

But I guess we'll agree to disagree then and I do beleive I've said more then my fare share.

Edited for spelling and to add: I just ran across this thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=94914
and yet people would still say "Go for the Enco".

[3006guns]

I bought an Enco 13 x 40 only because I wanted something new that I wouldn't have to rebuild first. It holds good tolerances and is easy to operate. Enco replaced the asian motor with an American one as part of their normal operating procedure.

Things I didn't like:

All lever handles would not stay tight.....a little locktite solved that.

Threading dial is not keyed to the shaft, just held by a socket screw that can come loose. I check it before any threading operations. No big deal and I may modify it in the future.

The chuck changing procedure is not what I thought. I was under the impression that I could just swap chucks with repeated accuracy. Turns out (and this is a tip from a Jet dealer!) when you remount your 3 jaw, you have to place a piece of 1" bar in the jaws and dial it in while tightening the mounting screws! Not too crazy about that but it gets fast with practice.

Things I did like:

Runs quietly, bullseye port to check head stock lube.

On/off is controlled by a lever on the apron, within reach at all times.

Emergency "slap button" will stop everything if something goes wrong.

One gear (mounted outside head stock) made of nylon, acts as a "safety valve", designed to strip if normal forces are exceeded. This is a GOOD thing to have.

Good customer service. The Chinese 3 jaw had a minor problem and Enco replaced it with a Bison (Polish) chuck after one phone call, no hassle.

[PatMarlin]

What's your guys take on belt drive lathes vs. gear drives? All my lathes are belt, one Logan 11x28, and 2 Hardinges- 1 Chucker HC and the other a CHNC.

[azcruiser]

MY friend bought a lathe from a place called goverment liqudators they sell surplus DOD property he got a south bend ship board lathe think it was from the usnavy .Got it cheap but shipping cost him like 900 bucks to his house

[Trifocals]

I have (2) friends that have Birmingham lathes (one is a tool and die maker), both speak very highly of them. One of the local gun shops (3 full time gunsmiths) recently purchased a Grizzly gunsmith lathe. They love it. Let's face it, there may not be any American lathe manufacturers producing machines in the 12"-14" range at this point in time. Some are putting their names on import lathes. Buying a used American made lathe is a gamble. If a lathe has had substantial use it may need extensive repair. Parts may be a problem for older lathes. Purchasing a used lathe from a tech/trade school or a high school machine shop almost always assures that the machine has had some careless abuse in it's life. If purchasing a used machine, look for a high quality machine with lots of accessories that has been lightly used by a home shop hobby machinist. Our local tech school has a half dozen NARDINI lathes. They are a South American import that the instructors are very pleased with. Buy wisely and if taken care of, a good machine will last your lifetime. LOL

[lathesmith]

Pat, all of the gear-head lathes that I have looked at have a quick change gear-head....that's belt-driven. Which is a good thing AFAICT. I can also say, switching speeds with the gear-head is much faster than with the belt, and with the belt driving the gear box you still have some "slippage" if you, well, you know, have a little "accident" (I sure that's NEVER happened to any of us before?!).

lathesmith

[PatMarlin]

Oh no I would NEVER have an accident Chris. Specially on my CNC ...:roll: ...:mrgreen:

So then are you saying like the Grizzly "Gun Smith" lathes, they are still utilmately driven with a belt off the drive motor?

I don't think I would know how to act if I got to work on a NEW precision lathe. My Logan has wear issues for sure, but does an amazingly good job working around it's issues.

The old Hardinges (1955 on my manual, and 1980 on the CNC) have some issues, but they are such an upper caliber machine, they laugh at my Logan. Once I find the magic speed and feed, and tooling, the Hardinge laugh's at it's own age as well. They are just pretty remarkable machines.

Finding the right tooling for the task on a production level is a challenge. I'm still working on CNC finish and tool longevity. Getting much closer to where I want to be, but still need work in areas.

[PatMarlin]

OK I see now.

I just looked at the parts breakdown on the Grizzly 40003G gunsmith lathe. Belt on the drive motor, with QC gearing in the headstock. That is GOOD.

That lathe would be awesome with VFD drive making it variable speed as well. I want replace my Logan with something new one of these days.

If I were a rich man, I would get a Southwest Industries ProtoTrak manual/CNC lathe. Taiwan castings with American components. Tough machines, but approaching $20,000 new.

[Char-Gar]

I have a small Logan in my shop and am well pleased with it. Lee Jurris builds or used to build 1000 yard bench rest rifles and he had Jet lathes and machine tools in his shop.

If I were shopping for another lathe I would look long and hard for a good condition Southbend or Logan. I just like old American iron.

If I wanted an Asian lathe I would buy Jet. It is not that they are better than any other but have great customer support here in the states. I need some info on my Jet drill press and called their customer service number. I got a fellow from Georga with 30 plus years as a machinest to walk me through the issue.

I have a friend who just bought a new Grizzley "Gunsmith" lathe. I get to run it, so in time I will have an opinion, but it is too early for that.

[PatMarlin]

Be real interested in your Grizzly report Charles.

[lathesmith]

Since what little industrial base that this town had dried up about, oh, 30 years ago, choices in the "good used American-made lathe" department are slim to none. If I waited until I got a fabulous deal of a lifetime on something like that, that would actually fit in my garage,I'd still be waiting. And waiting, and waiting...
So, for those of us in this area, it's new or near-new stuff or pretty much nothing--think Asian...I mean, if you want to do the Ebay thing, good luck with that; personally, I really don't want to spend hundreds getting something shipped only to find out it's a piece of junk. Talk about a **** shoot!
So, having a HF and a Griz store close at hand, does come in useful at times. Those "Gunsmith" lathes do come with a few more toys, and at least the showroom models seem to have a little higher level of fit and finish. And you are right Pat, belt-drive on a gear head is a VERY good thing, and also, a variable speed makes one of these machines that much better. And you are also right on about tooling, it seems there is always something to fool with, especially when you are talking about carbide!

lathesmith

[cheese1566]

I am in the same boat here in western SD. Only recent industries go way back and are sawmills and goldmines. They are few and far between now and the old timer machinists in those shops are long gone in the dirt.

I found one 400 miles away on craigslist, but after telling the seller I wanted it (and was having a family member come to look at it that day) he decided to sell it out from under me without notice. I could have easily had my brother buy it and store until i could come for it. By the way, it was a Montgomery Ward (Logan) with an extra chuck, stand, and taper attachment for $500. (Now after said and done, I think I smell something fishy...just as well.)

I do have a nice member here with one that is closer with extras. Many pics have been sent and we are still talking.

If that falls through, I may just settle for a new Grizzly mini-lathe and go from there.

[Linstrum]

In 2006 I needed a lathe to replace my worn-out late 1940s Sears Atlas 12x36 lathe that I had for almost 50 years, so I checked out the Jet 13x40 belt drive lathe that my father bought new a few years earlier and I decided to get the 20" longer Jet 13x60 belt drive model for doing barrel work. Except for the bed being 20 inches longer, it is the same basic model as my father's lathe including having flame-hardened ways. I paid $4000 for it in 2006. The only major thing I did to it was replace the two horsepower 240-volt single-phase AC motor with a ¾ horsepower shunt-wound 90-volt DC variable speed reversible motor and speed control unit. Running a lathe or milling machine without a variable speed reversible drive is like having a car without a transmission, reverse gear, and gas pedal.

Jet lathes are NOT Chinese lathes, they are made in Taiwan, and for about the last 40 years Taiwan has had an excellent reputation of turning out lathes and mills just as good as the U.S. lathes and mills from the World War Two through Space Race Era, like South Bend and Bridgeport. Monarchs and jig-bores they are not, but my Jet 13x60 holds 0.0005" (5/10,000-inch) in a full 40-inch long cut between centers on a bar of 1-3/8" diameter type 303S free machining stainless steel. Depending on type of material and how I'm feeling, I can do work to 1/10,000 inch with my lathe, which granted takes special care, technique, and effort to do - especially with having a properly shaped and SHARP cobalt high speed steel or tungsten carbide tool bit, but my particular lathe will do it no problem. Without jumping through hoops I can hold to ± 0.001" all day long no problem. I also cut a lot of threads including metric threads, and with the Jet's threading gearbox, 120 x 127-teeth metric conversion gears, and the selection of switch-gears that come with the lathe, I have been able to match or come close enough to work okay every oddball thread I have come across so far, such as 19 turns per inch thread pitch used for 3/8" British Tapered Pipe Threads, as well as make nipples for Italian replica muzzle loader and cap and ball guns that often have bastard thread pitches to force the owner to purchase parts from the manufacturer. I can also cut the rarely-encountered 27 turns per inch threads used for 1/8" and 1/16" tapered pipe threads.

It has a quick-change cam-lock chuck mount that I did some simple work with shims so the three jaw chuck doesn't have to be indicated in, it came with a three jaw universal chuck, four jaw chuck, face plate, #2 Morse Taper inside the chuck mount, adapter for #3 to #2 Morse Taper, steady rest, tool follower rest, one carbide tip lathe center, and one soft steel lathe center.

I don't have any major complaints with my Jet 13x60. I had to re-grind the three-jaw chuck jaws because they were off-center by 0.010”, but after a simple re-grind I did myself it centers-up parts from 0.0” to 0.0015” of true center, depending on the diameter of the part.

I prefer belt drive lathes for tapping threads because of the torque control they offer by slipping the belt. I haven't had premature belt wear from slipping the belt for tapping because the power requirements are quite small compared to heavy cuts. I had the same belt on my Atlas lathe from 1964 to 2006 and the belt is still in good shape. For heavy cuts I've never had a problem with belt slippage.

Belt drive lathes have the problem of having to take the headstock apart to replace the drive belt but I have gotten around that by getting linkable V-belts that run just as smooth as solid belts.

rl858

[badgeredd]

skimmerhead,

Since you've said that you've been wanting for a while and have now decided to take the plunge, I'd say that patience is a virtue that can pay off. I have wanted a decent used lathe for several years and have checked sale papers, want adds, on0line sights and so forth. Recently I came across a Logan lathe, a 12-36, and I was forced into purchasing it [smilie=1: for the huge sum of $500 with a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw chuck, several tool holders 2 live centers and a host of trinkets that just make life easier. My point is, if you are diligent and ask around, visit area tool shops and machine shops you may well come across a deal that will allow you to spend a small portion of the 5k and give you some extra cash to upgrade or add a second machine to your stable. ;-)

Edd

[PatMarlin]

No kiddin' about buying and old lathe on eBay Chris.

It's getting harder and harder to find good American Iron, specially the smaller sized lathes as all those in good shape have been snapped up, or command a premium. Hope an imported mfg
becomes a clear leader someday. I would like to own a new lathe.

I was very fortunate as all three of my lathes I bought through Craigs List and could inspect and pick up myself. In fact every one of my machines I have found on Craigs and was able to pick up.

The only thing about Jet- didn't they recently go with a Chinese line of lathes? I would check that out. I have a Taiwan WEBB knee mill and it is a very nice Bridgeport copy. Some folks think they are better than Bridgeport. I have no complaints.

[jmh54738]

As a retired journeyman tool and diemaker one thing that is learned with age is respect for the opinion of others. In the 1960s every machine tool was American made. In a die shop or a mold shop, a lathe finds very little use. In today's shops with wire and sinker EDMs, and vertical machining centers just about all machines are imports. Vertical mills, and surface grinders are imports also, however not Enco or Grizzley. In 2004, I saw my first ever Enco lathes in an industrial setting, machining the critical seat areas of safety relief valves for major petroleum refinerys and coal fired electric generating plants. The best lathe is the one that you have!! To my knowledge none of these plants have blown up because their parts were machined on an Enco. This safety valve repair facility, is a division of a Corporation with 14,000 employees in the USA, far from being small town farm repair shop. It does little good to cry and bellyache because these parts are not being machined on a lathe of higher repute. In emergencies I would fly to plants to repair safety valves, using the plants own machine tools. In about 1/3 of these plants, I was not allowed to actually operate their machines, but instructed and supervised the machining. Old plants have some old machines, even lathes with flat belts and cone pulleys. The newer plants have all imported machine tools. In 2006, I spent 7 days running a LeBlonde 48" sliding bed lathe that was made in the mid 1930. It had not been used for 10 years and many employees of that power plant in ND had never known what was under that tarp. It was the ONLY lathe that could do the job, and I am not critical of them for not having a nice new lathe. The only two problems that I have personally observed with Enco lathes are........1) abusive shifting will break the roll pins that hold the shifter fork on the sliding gear shaft 2) the compound rest is so low that the screw knob will interfer with the crosslide knob at angles near 90 to the axis of the lathe. I raised the compound with a 1/2" steel plate.

[skimmerhead]

skimmerhead,

Since you've said that you've been wanting for a while and have now decided to take the plunge, I'd say that patience is a virtue that can pay off. I have wanted a decent used lathe for several years and have checked sale papers, want adds, on0line sights and so forth. Recently I came across a Logan lathe, a 12-36, and I was forced into purchasing it [smilie=1: for the huge sum of $500 with a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw chuck, several tool holders 2 live centers and a host of trinkets that just make life easier. My point is, if you are diligent and ask around, visit area tool shops and machine shops you may well come across a deal that will allow you to spend a small portion of the 5k and give you some extra cash to upgrade or add a second machine to your stable. ;-)

Edd
took the plunge! bought a new 20" bridgeport and a cnc mill, they are both turbo charged and fuel injected. they have dro's and gps tracking, i bought an operator also so i just have to watch. i also have some land for sale in Florida should anyone be interested, will make you a good deal!:kidding: i'm not in a hurray, still looking.

skimmerhead :veryconfu

[jmh54738]

Skinnerhead, I love your sense of humor. You just sit back and read all of this bickering. The quest for a lathe is fun in itself.

[skimmerhead]

Skinnerhead, I love your sense of humor. You just sit back and read all of this bickering. The quest for a lathe is fun in itself.

to be honest i wish i'd never posted this. i never wanted to get anyone riled up. i did get some good advise and i thank all who cared enough to share your opions and knowledge on the subject. and i have read every post and weighed the info provided, i am sorry to have caused such heated debate as that was not my intention. i hope any ill i have caused is repairable. as my sense of humor i hope i offended no one. it was not meant to. but it is my nature to be humerous, i am known to be a storyteller and comic to all who know me. without humor life would be dull. a famos comic was on hbo one nite and at the end of his show he said these words ( don't take life too seriously, you'll never make it out alive ) George Carlin

skimmerhead[smilie=f:

[Linstrum]

- - - - - - - The only thing about Jet- didn't they recently go with a Chinese line of lathes? I would check that out. - - - - - - - - - .

Hi, Pat, I haven't been on the showroom floor of a machine tool distributor for about a year, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Jet has some Chinese made stuff now like almost everybody else does, too.


rl860

[jmh54738]

My next machine will be GPS guided, CNC is old technology. (joke) I personally stay away from CNC machines. The manufacturers only support them for about 7 years. When no more computer boards are available, you have to find an electronic expert who can hopefully repair a faulty board. Beyond that they are scrap iron. Many other machines have boards in them and are likewise vulnerable. Our shop has a 16 x 30 surface grinder, now operating with the last known circuit board available for its system. Then what??

[PatMarlin]

Skimmer Danny-

You're not getting anyone riled up. We all like this thread. Don't make me travel back there and pay you a visit MR... [smilie=f: ....:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

My next machine will be GPS guided, CNC is old technology. (joke) I personally stay away from CNC machines. The manufacturers only support them for about 7 years. When no more computer boards are available, you have to find an electronic expert who can hopefully repair a faulty board. Beyond that they are scrap iron. Many other machines have boards in them and are likewise vulnerable. Our shop has a 16 x 30 surface grinder, now operating with the last known circuit board available for its system. Then what??

I would only have CNC if you were going into business, but you want to start on manual lathes anyway. That would be to weird, starting out on CNC and not have any manual skills. But, I guess a whole generation has learned that way.

What you do with old CNC Iron is retrofit with a new control. My Hardinge CHNC was retrofitted with a Fagor control and Glenteck servo motors, then I converted it to run on single phase 120v with my off grid solar system. The machine had very little wear, and the retro was 6 years old with low hours on it. Like new. I lucked out.

But then I bought a Supermax YCM-40 3 axes CNC knee mill, a very nice machine, good condition- made in Taiwan, for peanuts- $1000 with the same Fagor control, same motors. More hours on it and the machine could not be powered up.

Since I know the control programming now and like it, it made sense to run the same computer control.

Well something in the control smoked as soon as I powered it up. Shut it right down obviously. Smelled like a smoked capacitor to me. This model Fagor control stopped being manufactured 3 years ago. It was based on 1992 technology, and sold for about $12,000 new.


SO I call Fagor and they wanted $2500 just for their level 1 repair and diagnosis and with no guarantees for a fix. They rebuild them for $6800. I sent the unit down to an old electronic tech friend of mine from the music business. He had the thing repaired in a few hours. Sure enough was a smoked cap on one of the circuit boards, so he replaced all the caps and put in a new backup battery and charged me $380 bucks.

Next all the lost machine parameters have to be reprogrammed which is not easy since the orginal list is gone. I will most likely will take the machine down south and have it done to the tune of $1500. Could figure it out myself, but it would take me weeks.

Under $3000 for this Cat-40 3 axes CNC mill in great working condition is a steal.

Moral of my long winded post is, you can make old equipment run if you want to go through all this work. Some old CNC electronics are pure dinosaurs and good for nothing but the bone pile, but some are serviceable.

[jmh54738]

I agree with you Pat, CNC is the only way to go and be in business and it is great to have a friend whose head is wired up for electronics. That is sure a sinking feeling to smoke a controler. My Fagor DRO cooked a cap. got it fixed and got a couple more years out of it. Replaced with a Newall C-80, about $2000, installed. I'm just more of a mechanical guy these days. I even like a crank on my pencil sharpener instead of a battery. Just to stay on thread, I think that we are suggesting a manual lathe for Skimmerhead, as if he doesn't already know that.

[skimmerhead]

Skimmer Danny-

You're not getting anyone riled up. We all like this thread. Don't make me travel back there and pay you a visit MR... [smilie=f: ....:mrgreen:

come on over! i'll get you to wrestle a gator, it'll give me some practice taking pictures, maybe i can learn how to post em.[smilie=s::veryconfu

[skimmerhead]

I would only have CNC if you were going into business, but you want to start on manual lathes anyway. That would be to weird, starting out on CNC and not have any manual skills. But, I guess a whole generation has learned that way.

What you do with old CNC Iron is retrofit with a new control. My Hardinge CHNC was retrofitted with a Fagor control and Glenteck servo motors, then I converted it to run on single phase 120v with my off grid solar system. The machine had very little wear, and the retro was 6 years old with low hours on it. Like new. I lucked out.

But then I bought a Supermax YCM-40 3 axes CNC knee mill, a very nice machine, good condition- made in Taiwan, for peanuts- $1000 with the same Fagor control, same motors. More hours on it and the machine could not be powered up.

Since I know the control programming now and like it, it made sense to run the same computer control.

Well something in the control smoked as soon as I powered it up. Shut it right down obviously. Smelled like a smoked capacitor to me. This model Fagor control stopped being manufactured 3 years ago. It was based on 1992 technology, and sold for about $12,000 new.


SO I call Fagor and they wanted $2500 just for their level 1 repair and diagnosis and with no guarantees for a fix. They rebuild them for $6800. I sent the unit down to an old electronic tech friend of mine from the music business. He had the thing repaired in a few hours. Sure enough was a smoked cap on one of the circuit boards, so he replaced all the caps and put in a new backup battery and charged me $380 bucks.

Next all the lost machine parameters have to be reprogrammed which is not easy since the orginal list is gone. I will most likely will take the machine down south and have it done to the tune of $1500. Could figure it out myself, but it would take me weeks.

Under $3000 for this Cat-40 3 axes CNC mill in great working condition is a steal.

Moral of my long winded post is, you can make old equipment run if you want to go through all this work. Some old CNC electronics are pure dinosaurs and good for nothing but the bone pile, but some are serviceable.

hey Pat! how do you spell cnc ? is it anything like 911? when my wife got sick i had to look it up in phone book!:lol:

[lathesmith]

Pat, I believe that the Jet stuff I have looked at recently was Chinese-made, but I could be wrong about that. Just because it comes from China doesn't mean that it's not capable of doing some good stuff with the right operator though....



The best lathe is the one that you have!!

Well-put jmh! It's OK to sit around dreaming about finding a once-in-a-lifetime-steal-of-a-deal, but if you want to get any actual work done you have to pull the trigger sometime.

lathesmith

[Buckshot]

............The Chinese are not idiots and can make good stuff. Heck a lot of what they're making THEIR stuff on is equipment imported INTO China. I was looking at some photo's maybe 2 years ago of that huge new dam they were (or are still) building and they had a BUNCH of Caterpiller machines there so they know what good stuff is.

What they make is dependent upon what the buyer wants. On a mill you want ABEC 7 bearings and a chromed quill in a honed bore? Can do. Want scrapped ways, can do that too. Want a 14x40 lathe to sell for $4,000? Sure thing, they'll just speed up the line and put another shift on in the bondo shop [smilie=w: Once again there are Chinese machines and then there are REALLY Chinese machines :mrgreen: About 5 years ago when I got my Logan lathe I spent umpteen hours on the HSM and Practical Machinist's BB's. I remember one post of a guy who'd just gotten a new import Chinese lathe. He was grousing about the seemingly general oddities, like handles retained by roll pins, plus covers/housings having gaps, corners just not square, etc.

A few days later in the same thread he was still doing general cleanup and found several of the hollow crossbed stiffeners were still packed full of casting sand! The machine had traversed the entire factory like that! Further inspection in similar suspicious places showed places where the bondo shop had bondo'd over sand on inside corners. The thread naturally had guys with similar experiences, even some with sand or even cast iron chips in the headstocks from when the spindle bore was machined. Also apparently common on some cheaper machines is porous castings.

In the same vein some years back I needed a sawzall, but not a DeWalt or SAWZALL sawzall, but for what I had to do a sawzall would be the tool. I went to Horror Fright and for $19.99 I bought one, and then some blades. I plugged it in and it seemed to run just fine. I don't recall now why I did, but I pulled the rubber protective sleeve forward to expose the aluminum transmission case. It's cover was held on by 3 phillips head screws. Removing the cover exposed a seeming pretty well made worm and pinion gear, but there was a bunch of aluminum swarf in the grease. It was all from those 3 self tapping screws used to hold the cover on. I smiled. I mean they can make it, box it with a spare set of brushes, ship it across the Pacific Ocean, haul the container to a warehouse, the put it in a store, and EVERYONE involved makes money, and they can still sell it for $20?

Then again I needed a hammer drill for no other reason then getting holes started in this red concrete around here that passes for dirt (Good ole Redlands clay!). I bought this from HF http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-1-inch-sds-rotary-hammer-97743.html Lemme tell ya, if you need a hammer drill (actually it's a 3 in 1) for $79 this thing rocks! Probably the best thing I've ever bought at HF. So here's a big 'Attaboy' for the folks at the Happy Cherry Blossom People's Hammer Drill factory #27.

.....................Buckshot

[PatMarlin]

Yaw- I have some Harbor Freight stuff cuz that will not die. Boggles my mind really.

One that's unbelievable is the 12" compound miter cut off saw. The wood model. I bought one 4 years ago. Cut all the beams and lumber for my shop with it. Countless board feet of 1x. Replaced the brushes once- cost a dollar per set. I run Freud Diablo blades, and have only used 3.

Then I've cut all the aluminum for my ROCKDock™ with it. I mean 100's of feet of aluminum, and it still won't die. SO I bought another one. On sale with cupon. Now I see they went to a different model.

Then my latest Chinese head shaker- I started out with all Enco import 5C collets. The $8 ones. They have all worked well. I had one start to wear and slip so I bought a few Hardinge which are very good, and one Lyndex from Enco. Their top of their line I guess.

Well I find a problem and discover I had run out of about .004 on some male dies. I finally tracked it down to the Lyndex collet. Replaced it with a new $8 Enco import, and problem solved!

[PatMarlin]

Danny...

Lookie here:

http://shreveport.craigslist.org/tls/1983496515.html

You're not really gonna sick an alligator on me are you? ...:shock:

[PatMarlin]

http://www.patmarlins.com/snoop.jpg

Snoop says, "don't sic no Alligators on my Dad!" ...:holysheep



...:Fire:

[deltaenterprizes]

Danny...

Lookie here:

http://shreveport.craigslist.org/tls/1983496515.html

You're not really gonna sick an alligator on me are you? ...:shock:

That could be a great deal and the price may decrease if it all goes in one shot.

[skimmerhead]

Danny...

Lookie here:

http://shreveport.craigslist.org/tls/1983496515.html

You're not really gonna sick an alligator on me are you? ...:shock:

no i figured i'd sick you on the gator so i could take some photos. c'mon man wrestleing a gator is about the most fun you can have with all your clothes on! where you at there snoop! git that gator boy, sic em!!

skimmerhead

[akajun]

here ya go, In Sulphur, just accross the bay.

http://batonrouge.craigslist.org/tls/2030273306.html

[PatMarlin]

Ther ya go Danny.

$53,000 for that Supermax is a bit steep, specially with Centriod. Ick.

I've got $1800 in mine with a Fagor REAL CNC control. Fully operational now, just got to frame a room in for it... :roll:

[skimmerhead]

Ther ya go Danny.

$53,000 for that Supermax is a bit steep, specially with Centriod. Ick.

I've got $1800 in mine with a Fagor REAL CNC control. Fully operational now, just got to frame a room in for it... :roll:

no problem! i won the lottery!!!!! i will donate a large portion of the loot to my friend's. i'm trying to remember who they are as i'm suffering from can't remember _ _ _ t syndrome. the only one i can remember right now is snoop, payment will be made accordingly. thank you!

skimmerhead :holysheep

[PatMarlin]

Snoop has a PayPal account as well.

[skimmerhead]

Snoop has a PayPal account as well.

could you please explain to me how to send dog bisquits thru pay pal. snoop's friend,

skimmerhead [smilie=f:

[deltaenterprizes]

Catch me on the right day and I will sell you my mill and lathe and all of the tooling to go with them for a song!

[PatMarlin]

Yea- and if you come over today and get here in the next hour you can have my Hardinge CNC Danny. And then you can bring Snoop's bisquits.

I've been chasing what I've thought is a machine problem the past 2 days, and I think all it is is a collet slipping... :roll:

[deltaenterprizes]

I have had days like that too!

[skimmerhead]

Catch me on the right day and I will sell you my mill and lathe and all of the tooling to go with them for a song!

CAN'T SING


skimmerhead [smilie=f:

[skimmerhead]

Yea- and if you come over today and get here in the next hour you can have my Hardinge CNC Danny. And then you can bring Snoop's bisquits.

I've been chasing what I've thought is a machine problem the past 2 days, and I think all it is is a collet slipping... :roll:

keep the cnc, i'll settle for snoop [smilie=w:

skimmerhead :bigsmyl2:

[akajun]

http://batonrouge.craigslist.org/tls/2041562827.html

In Denham Springs, its big though, weighs about 8-9000. I emailed the guy, he is retiring from machine business. Already sold his smaller stuff, but is listing a lot of indicators, measuring, workholding items.

[skimmerhead]

http://batonrouge.craigslist.org/tls/2041562827.html

In Denham Springs, its big though, weighs about 8-9000. I emailed the guy, he is retiring from machine business. Already sold his smaller stuff, but is listing a lot of indicators, measuring, workholding items.


thanks for the tip. i will check it out. i think i'm going to spend my money on MADE IN THE USA! i'm tired of everything you want to buy these days is made in CHINA. i'd rather restore an old usa than play with MADE IN CHINA! i'll get one, been doing a lot of reasearch, and a lot of studying, just not in a hurray. when i find it i'll know it's the one. it's kinda like when i met my wife i knew she was the one, man she sure was lucky to get me!!!

skimmerhead :veryconfu

[JIMinPHX]

This is a subject that could easily cause me to fill about 5 pages, but I'll try to keep it short & sweet.

The only real way to know if a low priced machine tool is a good one or not is to take a cut with it & see what you get.

If you spend big money on a high end machine, you should get something very nice. If you spend low end money, you really need to know what to look for & I can't describe all that in a few paragraphs. The mid priced machines (your price range) can also be good or bad. It depends on which one you get.

I can't even recommend a certain model number because the quality of each individual machine sometimes varies. This is especially true of the Chinese stuff. Harbor Freight may list a single part number for a 10 x 30" lathe, but if you go to 10 different harbor Freight stores & look at 10 different examples of said lathe, you will probably see at least a few different variants. This is because of the way that things are sometimes done in China. Orders for production goods are often jobbed out to several different small shops & then all the different products are grouped together as a single export lot. Some are good quality. some are not. Good luck on spare parts.

In general, the Chinese stuff has gotten better in the last several years. Some of it is actually pretty good now, but you need to know how to spot the good ones or else you are playing Russian Roulette.

The American, English, German, Spanish, Japanese & Swedish machines tend to be of very good quality. Unfortunately, if you are buying a used machine, you may be getting one that is worn out or damaged. Even the best machines can get worn out &/or damaged. Hard chrome ways are pretty hard to wear out, but even they can get ruined if you run a bunch of abrasive material (like cast iron) on them. You can do some farmer's tests, like pulling on the tables, cross slides & handles to feel for wear, but that test is far from conclusive & often only indicated an improperly adjusted gibb. Again, you really need to take a cut or have a knowledgeable person look at it for you.

A general rule of thumb when looking at used lathes is to start by looking at the head stock bearing & through hole. If they are big in diameter, then you can probably take a fairly heavy cut & still get good finish & size as long as nothing is worn out or damaged. If you are looking at a very small spindle bearing, like on a 1920ish 12 x 36 South Bend, then just the added weight of a modern 8" adjust-tru chuck with removable top jaws may make it chatter. There may be a reason that machine only has a little 6" solid-jaw plain-back chuck on it. The seller may or may not know that.

I would guess that the safest thing for you to go after in your price range would be a Victor, a Jet or an unknown brand name machine from McMaster Carr. Better deals can probably be had on the used market, but you need someone to sort it out for you or else you can get burned badly.

I may be moving a couple thousand miles in the next few months, & if I do, I will probably be selling the 10 x 24 lathe & short bed Bridgeport that I have here for reasonable money. Unfortunately, the shipping charges from Phoenix to Cajun Country would probably double the cost to you & that's not such a good deal anymore. Machine tools generally ship as class 65 freight & that normally ain't cheap. That's why I would sell off what I have here & then buy again locally after I move.

My best advice is for you to find an old machinist that lives near you & see if you can get him to come look at used machines with you. The money that you may spend on beer &/or whiskey for that man will probably be a cheap investment in the long run.

You may find more useful information on the practical machinist website.

[JIMinPHX]

Oh yea,
what ever you spend on a lathe, keep some money aside...
You're going to need TOOLING, & that adds up quick. You always need some little tool that you don't have. The standard turn, face & bore tools are never enough by themselves.

[Dean D.]

Good for you Skimmerhead! I sure wish more people had the "Buy American" attitude, our country wouldn't be in the mess it's in now if they had.

[PatMarlin]

I chased my tail 3 days for nothing but a slipping collet on my CNC.. :groner:

Lordy I feel like an idiot. I checked for a broken or slipping encoder. I checked for backlash in the gibs and slipping ballscrew. I checked contacts and the CNC program over and over again.

Well at least I know my machines in solid shape.

It was a warn Hardinge collet, that would slip only when my back was turned. Put a new $8 Chinese collet in and it's rock solid and back to work ...:roll:


PS.... don't waste your money on Lyndex 5C collets. They are junk.

[skimmerhead]

Good for you Skimmerhead! I sure wish more people had the "Buy American" attitude, our country wouldn't be in the mess it's in now if they had.

i could go into a long rant about this, but that would only get my blood pressure up. people in this country are strugeling in this econemy and i feel that everytime i buy something made in another country i'm hurting this country. haveing gone through the destruction of the fishing industry by imports and the reameing we got from our uncle, the wounds will never heal. i buy imported products, only if i can't find an american one. unfortunetly too often that is not the case. just think about this, lead is imported from china! too bad it's in the toy's our children play with. i'm gonna stop now and go in my barn and play with my MADE IN AMERICA toys.

skimmerhead:x

[JIMinPHX]

I probably should have asked this before...
What do you think you will want to cut on the lathe?

Do you want it for doing rifle barrel work? Do you want to make parts from scratch? If so, how big? Do you want to be able to turn brake rotors (which are tougher to do a good job on than a lot of people realize)? Do you just want to have it to fool around with & learn about lathe work? Do you want something super precise like a Hardinge or Potter tool room lathe, or is holding .0005" good enough for most of the work you plan to do? Do you want to be able to turn things that are longer than the bed of the machine? Do you want to do threading? Do you want to cut tapers? Do you want to do repetitive work, where you make 100 or more copies of the exact same thing? Do you want to be able to cut complex curves? There are different tools with different price tags for different jobs.

[PatMarlin]

Danny wants to turn alligators.... :mrgreen:

[hickstick_10]

Good for you skimmerhead.

A wise choice for a wise man, best of luck on your toy search

[skimmerhead]

Danny wants to turn alligators.... :mrgreen:

ok pat! you got me, you made me laugh:lol:

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

I probably should have asked this before...
What do you think you will want to cut on the lathe?

Do you want it for doing rifle barrel work? Do you want to make parts from scratch? If so, how big? Do you want to be able to turn brake rotors (which are tougher to do a good job on than a lot of people realize)? Do you just want to have it to fool around with & learn about lathe work? Do you want something super precise like a Hardinge or Potter tool room lathe, or is holding .0005" good enough for most of the work you plan to do? Do you want to be able to turn things that are longer than the bed of the machine? Do you want to do threading? Do you want to cut tapers? Do you want to do repetitive work, where you make 100 or more copies of the exact same thing? Do you want to be able to cut complex curves? There are different tools with different price tags for different jobs.

i'll probably wind up cutting my fingers mostly, but in general i just want to learn as much as i can about doeing machine work in my shop. this is my plan of action, first is to buy a used 12x24 or 12x36, then to completly disassemble and restore it. if you want to know how something works you tear it apart and put it back together, then you know what you have. now the second lathe i'm gonna buy is gonna have a few must have's, it must have a min. 1 1/2" spindle bore, a taper cutting attachment, 4 jaw chuck,3 jaw chuck, follow rest, steady rest, face plate, live and dead centers, quick change tool post, power cross feed, 3 phase variable speed control and many other features. for an example i looked at a leblond 15x55 which i liked and it'll be somewhere in that size of machine. south bend, leblond, logan, hardinge clausing maybe, possibly with a dro. i think you get the picture. once that part of my project is done, restored and operational i'll start all over again on a mill only this time i'll only get one, no practice machine. i figure by that time i'll know how to take it apart. once it is opererateional i'll be able to mill some finger guards so i stop cutting my fingers in the lathe. thats about it for know. i have an old friend thats a retired machinest and former neighbor who passed his business on to his son and they are adviseing me when i have q's and are also teaching me how to grind tool bits for every cut they can think of. also told me what stones to get and what not. so thats the plan and will probably have a machine to disect this week.

skimmerhead

[deltaenterprizes]

Disassembly without proper reassembly can destroy the accuracy of the lathe. Spindle bearings need to be tightened properly. It would not be a good idea to remove the headstock from the bed either.

[skimmerhead]

Disassembly without proper reassembly can destroy the accuracy of the lathe. Spindle bearings need to be tightened properly. It would not be a good idea to remove the headstock from the bed either.

only if nessecery, if its ok will leave it on. been looking at a lot of old machines lately and won't tear one down without parts manual and some help.

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

the lathe is in the barn!

skimmerhead :mrgreen:

[Char-Gar]

When I bought my 1947 Logan, the guy said he would ship it to me for $100.00 and I said OK. Well, it came UPS in four boxes. The headstock was in one box, the tail stock in another and the tooling in another and the bed in yet another. I almost dropped my teeth, having no idea how to put a lathe together.

My Son was down for visit and he got all of the mechanical ability in the family. In about a hour and a half we had it all together and another half hour to clean all the old grease and oil off.

It sat unused for six years until I retired and moved it to a place where I could run it. I did some electrical work, lubricated it all, tightened everything with a nut on it and turned it on. Nothing crashed and everything worked smoothly. I put a 14 inch length of Krag barrel between centers, turned it on again and engaged the half nuts. After the cut was made there was .004 taper from one end to the other. I moved the tailstock over half a hair and cut again. This time there was .0005 taper in 14 inches. I figured that was good enough and have been using it for two years with no problems.

[akajun]

the lathe is in the barn!

skimmerhead :mrgreen:


Make, Model, What, when Where?

If its one I pointed out I want a finders fee.

[skimmerhead]

Make, Model, What, when Where?

If its one I pointed out I want a finders fee.

almost got the finder's fee, got it from a guy in kenner. been going look at it alot in the last couple weeks, wanted to check it out real good before i bought it. got the model and ser.# off it and did some research on it, its a craftsman 12x24 built in 1975, it shows little use only dirty. its been in his shop unused for a long time, it runs good took it for a spin, ran fairly quiet, no vibration, has a 1/2hp dayton set up with a reverse swith, ways look good, no wear on the lead screw and back lash is min. on carriage, and cross feeds. four jaw chuck,steady rest, follow rest, milling attachment, 2 drill chucks 1/2 jacops mt#2 5/8 chuck mt#2 mt#2 and #3 dead centers, mt#2 live center,8" face plate and some tool holder's a box of new 1/4" hss cutters, cutoff tool, threading cutter, boring bars and holder and other stuff. i'll have to pull the spindle out to change the belt, and clean it and paint it. it came with a homemade cabinet and i'll leave on there for now. 900 bucks, i'm happy with it. will try to post photos later. next week i'm going look at a leblond 15x55 again, its starting to grow on me.

skimmerhead

[deltaenterprizes]

Good starter lathe but it does not have V ways and the gears are soft. Good news is parts are available, it is the same as an Atlas.
Does it have a quick change gear box?

[skimmerhead]

When I bought my 1947 Logan, the guy said he would ship it to me for $100.00 and I said OK. Well, it came UPS in four boxes. The headstock was in one box, the tail stock in another and the tooling in another and the bed in yet another. I almost dropped my teeth, having no idea how to put a lathe together.

My Son was down for visit and he got all of the mechanical ability in the family. In about a hour and a half we had it all together and another half hour to clean all the old grease and oil off.

It sat unused for six years until I retired and moved it to a place where I could run it. I did some electrical work, lubricated it all, tightened everything with a nut on it and turned it on. Nothing crashed and everything worked smoothly. I put a 14 inch length of Krag barrel between centers, turned it on again and engaged the half nuts. After the cut was made there was .004 taper from one end to the other. I moved the tailstock over half a hair and cut again. This time there was .0005 taper in 14 inches. I figured that was good enough and have been using it for two years with no problems.

i bet you wanted to pull your hair out when you seen that! in 1972 i met this fellow who was in ww2 and he said he had a harley davidson he wanted to sell because he did not know how to fix it. i said i would buy it i figured i could. paid him the 400 bucks and went to pick up my bike. well there was a bike there only it was packed in box's, so we loaded it up and went home and took the #'s off the frame and engine, contacted harley davidson they sent me all the manuals i needed and i restored it to it's original condition. it was a 1956 hd dresser with the suicide shift on the tank,i wish i still had it. every since then iv'e never met an engine or equipment i could not fix, plus it's more fun that way.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

WHoo Hooo Danny!!!!!!![smilie=w: [smilie=w: [smilie=w:


AND...

You can still get one of those big gators on there if you wack it in chapters... :mrgreen:

Snoop says "Congratulations".

http://www.patmarlins.com/snoop3.jpg


He excited... can't you tell?

[akajun]

You dont wack a gator in the chapters

Troy Landry says you

Choot em, Choot em again!!!

[Char-Gar]

The 12 inch Craftsman/Atlas lathe is a pretty good lathe in spite of the flat ways, which can allow more wobble in the saddle once they are worn. I have known a couple of gunsmiths that made a decent living with those lathes although they had the 36" bed. Most of the gunsmiths I have known (back in the day) used SouthBend, Logan with a Sheldon or two thrown in.

Best of luck with your new lathe.

[skimmerhead]

Good starter lathe but it does not have V ways and the gears are soft. Good news is parts are available, it is the same as an Atlas.
Does it have a quick change gear box?

yes it has the quick change gear. the next one will have the v ways, this little lathe is in very nice condition and has alot of accesserey's, i even have a complete set of gears in case one is needed, checked all #'s and are correct with parts book.

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

WHoo Hooo Danny!!!!!!![smilie=w: [smilie=w: [smilie=w:


AND...

You can still get one of those big gators on there if you wack it in chapters... :mrgreen:

Snoop says "Congratulations".

http://www.patmarlins.com/snoop3.jpg


He excited... can't you tell?

snoop looks like he hasn't a care in the world, look at him! he's falling asleep.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,


Do you have any info. on a Lathemaster 30 inch? It is supose to cut left or right handed threads. Machine weight is 330 pounds, the price looks good too.

Thanks for any help,

broomhandle

[skimmerhead]

Hi Guys,


Do you have any info. on a Lathemaster 30 inch? It is supose to cut left or right handed threads. Machine weight is 330 pounds, the price looks good too.

Thanks for any help,

broomhandle

i'm sorry i can't help you, but you'll get some help in the am. when they wake up. they are a very helpful and knowageable bunch of gentleman. and will surely give you some helpful info on your quest.

skimmerhead

[akajun]

Hi Guys,


Do you have any info. on a Lathemaster 30 inch? It is supose to cut left or right handed threads. Machine weight is 330 pounds, the price looks good too.

Thanks for any help,

broomhandle

I actually know the "Lathemaster" Bob Bertrand. His products are good and he stands behind his machines. His machines are set up to cut to the headstock, but come with a reversing gear that must be installed to cut to the right. Bobs home shop is filled with his own machinery and he is living proof that Chinese or American machinery, its the operator not the machine.

[broomhandle]

Hi Akajun,


I spoke to him also. Only thing I see (negitive) about his machine is the smaller hole in the spindle. It seems to be better made that others, I have seen.

I know he does not advertise like some of the others do. To me the cost of the machine is real big money. I'm only going to get one shot at a lathe!

Best,
broomhandle

[akajun]

yes its only about 3/4 IRRC, which is bigger than my Atlas. Just means for bull barrels that you will need to break out the steady. I know that he built and chambered 300whisper in an ar-15 from a blank and threaded the muzzle on his larger machine, so it can be done.
His machines are nice.

[JIMinPHX]

i'll probably wind up cutting my fingers mostly, but in general i just want to learn as much as i can about doeing machine work in my shop. this is my plan of action, first is to buy a used 12x24 or 12x36, then to completly disassemble and restore it. if you want to know how something works you tear it apart and put it back together, then you know what you have. now the second lathe i'm gonna buy is gonna have a few must have's, it must have a min. 1 1/2" spindle bore, a taper cutting attachment, 4 jaw chuck,3 jaw chuck, follow rest, steady rest, face plate, live and dead centers, quick change tool post, power cross feed, 3 phase variable speed control and many other features. for an example i looked at a leblond 15x55 which i liked and it'll be somewhere in that size of machine. south bend, leblond, logan, hardinge clausing maybe, possibly with a dro. i think you get the picture. once that part of my project is done, restored and operational i'll start all over again on a mill only this time i'll only get one, no practice machine. i figure by that time i'll know how to take it apart. once it is opererateional i'll be able to mill some finger guards so i stop cutting my fingers in the lathe. thats about it for know. i have an old friend thats a retired machinest and former neighbor who passed his business on to his son and they are adviseing me when i have q's and are also teaching me how to grind tool bits for every cut they can think of. also told me what stones to get and what not. so thats the plan and will probably have a machine to disect this week.

skimmerhead

That sounds pretty close to the way that I got started fooling with those things. I think that it was a good way to go. I think that you are leaning towards the right machines & the right features too.

This thread shows the restoration of a lathe that is similar to one that I rebuilt about 15 years ago.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72830

My old Hendy served me well for years, until I got my Clausing Colechester to replace it. Quite frankly, I wish that I still had the old Hendy in operation. It was a bear of a machine & would take really heavy roughing cuts without crying about it. The fancy Clausing will not take 1/4 of the cut that the old Hendy would.

Fortunately, the taper bearings in the headstock on the old Hendy were still good. Taper bearings are not easy to make & fit correctly. Most of the work that I had to do in the rebuild consisted of recutting dovetails, tightening up acme nuts, setting gear lash, making 1 gear, & some clean up work. One of the nice things about taper bearings is that there is a lot of room to take them up with adjustments before they actually wear out completely.

Lots of the old lathes had straight plain bearings that are much easier to make. I mention this because the first lathe that I tried to put head stock bearings in was a 1920's era South Bend. I tried calling up South Bend & to ask if I could buy a set of bearings for a machine that old & they just laughed at me, literally.

On a beat up older lathe, I wouldn't be too scarred about taking it fully apart, especially if you paid less than $500 for it. You're not likely to do any more damage than the rest of the guys that owned it over the course of the last 50 years.

[skimmerhead]

That sounds pretty close to the way that I got started fooling with those things. I think that it was a good way to go. I think that you are leaning towards the right machines & the right features too.

This thread shows the restoration of a lathe that is similar to one that I rebuilt about 15 years ago.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72830

My old Hendy served me well for years, until I got my Clausing Colechester to replace it. Quite frankly, I wish that I still had the old Hendy in operation. It was a bear of a machine & would take really heavy roughing cuts without crying about it. The fancy Clausing will not take 1/4 of the cut that the old Hendy would.

Fortunately, the taper bearings in the headstock on the old Hendy were still good. Taper bearings are not easy to make & fit correctly. Most of the work that I had to do in the rebuild consisted of recutting dovetails, tightening up acme nuts, setting gear lash, making 1 gear, & some clean up work. One of the nice things about taper bearings is that there is a lot of room to take them up with adjustments before they actually wear out completely.

Lots of the old lathes had straight plain bearings that are much easier to make. I mention this because the first lathe that I tried to put head stock bearings in was a 1920's era South Bend. I tried calling up South Bend & to ask if I could buy a set of bearings for a machine that old & they just laughed at me, literally.

On a beat up older lathe, I wouldn't be too scarred about taking it fully apart, especially if you paid less than $500 for it. You're not likely to do any more damage than the rest of the guys that owned it over the course of the last 50 years.

i like old tools, i collected antique woodworking hand tools for years and have quite a few. and i perfer them to modern tools. i have an old blacksmith's post drill that i use more than my electric drill press. back to the lathe, i removed the spindle, bull gear and pulley, timkin bearings and races were all very good. did not see any need to remove back gear assembly no wear or chipped teeth, no play so used kerosene and cleaned everything real well, gonna prime and paint as close to original as i can. put new v belts and new wireing for the electrical and should be good to go after cleaning and painting. saveing the 4 jaw chuck for last, once i'm finished with the lathe i'll take it apart and clean it and check the jaws, give it a light coat of machine oil and put it back on. i bought an axa 100 tool post wedge type set. i'll change over once everything is running good. i think thats about it for now. thanks for the info, will holler at ya later.
skimmerhead

[akajun]

i like old tools, i collected antique woodworking hand tools for years and have quite a few. and i perfer them to modern tools. i have an old blacksmith's post drill that i use more than my electric drill press. back to the lathe, i removed the spindle, bull gear and pulley, timkin bearings and races were all very good. did not see any need to remove back gear assembly no wear or chipped teeth, no play so used kerosene and cleaned everything real well, gonna prime and paint as close to original as i can. put new v belts and new wireing for the electrical and should be good to go after cleaning and painting. saveing the 4 jaw chuck for last, once i'm finished with the lathe i'll take it apart and clean it and check the jaws, give it a light coat of machine oil and put it back on. i bought an axa 100 tool post wedge type set. i'll change over once everything is running good. i think thats about it for now. thanks for the info, will holler at ya later.
skimmerhead


For replacement belts, skip the standard black rubber. Get to a Harbor Freight or order from grizzly the Power twist belts. The ones at HF are green and made in america. THey run much smoother and are easier to install than a regular belt.

[skimmerhead]

For replacement belts, skip the standard black rubber. Get to a Harbor Freight or order from grizzly the Power twist belts. The ones at HF are green and made in america. THey run much smoother and are easier to install than a regular belt.

too late went to napa they had em in stock, they were listed atlas press co. go figure

skimmerhead

[JIMinPHX]

i like old tools, i collected antique woodworking hand tools for years and have quite a few. and i perfer them to modern tools. i have an old blacksmith's post drill that i use more than my electric drill press. back to the lathe, i removed the spindle, bull gear and pulley, timkin bearings and races were all very good. did not see any need to remove back gear assembly no wear or chipped teeth, no play so used kerosene and cleaned everything real well, gonna prime and paint as close to original as i can. put new v belts and new wireing for the electrical and should be good to go after cleaning and painting. saveing the 4 jaw chuck for last, once i'm finished with the lathe i'll take it apart and clean it and check the jaws, give it a light coat of machine oil and put it back on. i bought an axa 100 tool post wedge type set. i'll change over once everything is running good. i think thats about it for now. thanks for the info, will holler at ya later.
skimmerhead

I must have missed something. I didn't catch the part where you actually got a lathe already. I'ts too bad that I didn't get to you before you bought the AXA 100 post. If you have enough room under the centerline of the spindle & above the cross slide, I'd recommend a BXA (200) series tool post. They give you much better rigidity & let you take heavier cuts while keeping a good finish. The 3 "R's" of machining are Rigidity, Rigidity & Rigidity. Also, the BXA series holders will let you hold a slightly larger tool.

You did good by getting the wedge type, rather than the piston type. The wedge is a little stronger & located a lot more reliably.

If the motor on that thing is 3-phase, you might want to consider adding a variable speed controller. Being able to get any speed you want by just turning a knob is really the cats *** when running a lathe.

The first thing that I usually make on any new lathe is a center height gage. I just turn a piece of 1/2" or 3/4" aluminum stock to a length that matched the distance from the flats on the bed ways to the spindle centerline. It makes setting took heights a whole lot easier later, especially when you already have a work piece in the chuck & you suddenly realize that you need to run a tool that you haven't previously qualified to the correct height.

Experience is the ability to recognize your mistakes when you make them ...again:wink:

[JIMinPHX]

If you do keep that AXA, then this drawing may be of interest to you. It's a custom 3/4" tool holder for an AXA that I made for my little brother's lathe. I've got other drawings for boring bar holders & cut off tools too if you want them.

[skimmerhead]

If you do keep that AXA, then this drawing may be of interest to you. It's a custom 3/4" tool holder for an AXA that I made for my little brother's lathe. I've got other drawings for boring bar holders & cut off tools too if you want them.

sure, we'll have a look at em, getting some projects lined up for me to get started. i want to make a mt#3 bull nose dead center, i need to mill the axa mounting plate to fit the slot in the cross slide, i want to try and make a mt#3 shank tool bit holder to use straight shanked mills, maybe a drawbar. i been working on desighing a taper attachment. i even got an idea to make my own tool holder. have alot of ideas buzzing around the cavity where my brain used to be. should have restoration completed by next week, will post some photo's when done. i have a Q. on my steady rest it has brass stock for work to ride on, i would like to find some small roller bearings instead. where could i find some quality bearings that small? thanks

skimmerhead

[akajun]

sure, we'll have a look at em, getting some projects lined up for me to get started. i want to make a mt#3 bull nose dead center, i need to mill the axa mounting plate to fit the slot in the cross slide, i want to try and make a mt#3 shank tool bit holder to use straight shanked mills, maybe a drawbar. i been working on desighing a taper attachment. i even got an idea to make my own tool holder. have alot of ideas buzzing around the cavity where my brain used to be. should have restoration completed by next week, will post some photo's when done. i have a Q. on my steady rest it has brass stock for work to ride on, i would like to find some small roller bearings instead. where could i find some quality bearings that small? thanks

skimmerhead

I am building roller tips for my atlas steady as well. Everything I need at Enco. Small radial bearings, shoulder screws, shim washers, etc. I could not find parts that small locally in BR. It should come in this week, if you can wait, I will give you a copy of the packing list.

As far as the mount for your toolpost, dont waste time milling one. I used a 5/8 t nut from my drill press clamping kit, filed it for a minute, then turned the post down and re threaded it to the nut.

BTW do you know any of the Callais that own Abdon Callais offshore? I know they are from your area.

[skimmerhead]

I am building roller tips for my atlas steady as well. Everything I need at Enco. Small radial bearings, shoulder screws, shim washers, etc. I could not find parts that small locally in BR. It should come in this week, if you can wait, I will give you a copy of the packing list.

As far as the mount for your toolpost, dont waste time milling one. I used a 5/8 t nut from my drill press clamping kit, filed it for a minute, then turned the post down and re threaded it to the nut.

BTW do you know any of the Callais that own Abdon Callais offshore? I know they are from your area.

i know all of them, am good friends with the owner. i can wait on those bearings i just know i won't find any locally. its just something i had in mind just to see if i could do it. thanks.

skimmerhead

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

skimmerhead-

Give Accurate Bearing a call in NOLA. Alton ( owner ) can get you what ever you need. PM me if you want his number.

Regards,
Everett

[akajun]

i know all of them, am good friends with the owner. i can wait on those bearings i just know i won't find any locally. its just something i had in mind just to see if i could do it. thanks.

skimmerhead

I bet their place in the Hills is where you killed that tall rack 12 pt, and I bet Jude helped you pull it out.

There place is close to ours, in fact we are working on running power right now.

[JIMinPHX]

sure, we'll have a look at em, getting some projects lined up for me to get started. i want to make a mt#3 bull nose dead center, i need to mill the axa mounting plate to fit the slot in the cross slide, i want to try and make a mt#3 shank tool bit holder to use straight shanked mills, maybe a drawbar. i been working on desighing a taper attachment. i even got an idea to make my own tool holder. have alot of ideas buzzing around the cavity where my brain used to be. should have restoration completed by next week, will post some photo's when done. i have a Q. on my steady rest it has brass stock for work to ride on, i would like to find some small roller bearings instead. where could i find some quality bearings that small? thanks

skimmerhead

Here are a few drawings for you to think about. The 1/2" boring bar holder is for a BXA series holder, but if you cut the same dovetail as for the others, then everything else should line right up. The cut off holder drawing shows the top half only. If you tell me what size cut off blades you plan to use, then I'll draw the bottom half for you. The combo holder is a bit more complicated. You need to hold a bunch of dimensions pretty close to get the boring bar & the cut off tool to work at exactly the same center height, but it can be done.

Cutting a MT live center is a real good lathe project to get some practice with. The hard part is getting the taper on the MT exactly right. I usually cut a relief for about the center third of the taper.

Running straight shank mills out of the tail stock is a little tougher to do well than one might think. I'll let you learn that one by experience unless you want to ask me to spoil the surprise for you.

Regards,
Jim

PS,
I usually cut these tool holders out of 1018 cold roll. That stuff is common as dirt, costs half as much & works just fine as long as the holder is designed with enough beef.

[akajun]

Alright here is what you will need

12" OF SQUARE steel stock. I believe the size is 1/2" but measure the brass posts to be sure. I had some alying around so I didnt have to buy any.

Enco # 510-1961 sealed radial bearings. You will need 3

Enco# 319-8978 .005 shim washers, pack of 25. Watch out, they sent me one washer. They have the other 24 en route to me.

Enco# 319-9108 Shoulder socket screws. They come in packs of two, order two packs, you will need three.

I will post pics as I start the project, but once you see the items on Enco's website, you probably will understand what I am doing.

[skimmerhead]

skimmerhead-

Give Accurate Bearing a call in NOLA. Alton ( owner ) can get you what ever you need. PM me if you want his number.

Regards,
Everett

thanks for the tip, will check him out, i have to go to the city next week. thank you

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

I bet their place in the Hills is where you killed that tall rack 12 pt, and I bet Jude helped you pull it out.

There place is close to ours, in fact we are working on running power right now.

no actually i shot that deer about 7 miles from my house, my best friend has 30 acres and he put a big box stand 6" off the ground for me to hunt in. he had another place where he hunted. he kept telling me there was a12 point back there but i didn't believe him. he was right, 65 yards, he was dead before he hit the ground. i don't know jude that well, im more friends with there uncle and with there dad before he passed away. there has been a lot of tradgety in there familiy as of late. but every time i meet up with my friend lately it seems to be at a funeral sad to say. i knew their grand paw, he was friends with my daddy. the little town here is like a big neighborhood we all grew up together we all know each other more or less.


skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

Here are a few drawings for you to think about. The 1/2" boring bar holder is for a BXA series holder, but if you cut the same dovetail as for the others, then everything else should line right up. The cut off holder drawing shows the top half only. If you tell me what size cut off blades you plan to use, then I'll draw the bottom half for you. The combo holder is a bit more complicated. You need to hold a bunch of dimensions pretty close to get the boring bar & the cut off tool to work at exactly the same center height, but it can be done.

Cutting a MT live center is a real good lathe project to get some practice with. The hard part is getting the taper on the MT exactly right. I usually cut a relief for about the center third of the taper.

Running straight shank mills out of the tail stock is a little tougher to do well than one might think. I'll let you learn that one by experience unless you want to ask me to spoil the surprise for you.

Regards,
Jim

PS,
I usually cut these tool holders out of 1018 cold roll. That stuff is common as dirt, costs half as much & works just fine as long as the holder is designed with enough beef.

thanks Robert, i have a pretty good pile of material to work with, alot of aquamet 19 and 17 shafts stubs of all most any size you can think of, same cold roll , aluminum round 6061 pipe, bar, plate up to 1" thick, a lifetime of drop off's of jobs done. over here stainless is king because of the salt water. everything i made when i built a boat was stainless or aluminum, we stayed away from steel as much as we could. i even asked cummins if they could make the engine out of stainless, they got a good laugh out of that one. back to serious i was going to use cold roll to make those bullnose centers and see how accurate that lil dude is. i want to use the old style tool holder to start, im an oldschool kinda guy, i need to learn how the old folk's did it before i try the new i think this is how it goes, them new fangled things :groner: i couldn't help myself i had to slip that one in there. thanks Robert!

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

no actually i shot that deer about 7 miles from my house, my best friend has 30 acres and he put a big box stand 6" off the ground for me to hunt in. he had another place where he hunted. he kept telling me there was a12 point back there but i didn't believe him. he was right, 65 yards, he was dead before he hit the ground. i don't know jude that well, im more friends with there uncle and with there dad before he passed away. there has been a lot of tradgety in there familiy as of late. but every time i meet up with my friend lately it seems to be at a funeral sad to say. i knew their grand paw, he was friends with my daddy. the little town here is like a big neighborhood we all grew up together we all know each other more or less.


skimmerhead

His name isn't Dick is it?

I got a buddy back in LA who's gonna be Beverly Hillbilly rich. They found some serious gas on his property, and he just put in a box stand.

[skimmerhead]

His name isn't Dick is it?

I got a buddy back in LA who's gonna be Beverly Hillbilly rich. They found some serious gas on his property, and he just put in a box stand.

no his name is john, he keeps wishing they find oil or gas, i told him the only gas they gonna find will be in the box stand, and it'll be comeing from eating too many beans.

skimmerhead:lol:

[JIMinPHX]

thanks Robert, i have a pretty good pile of material to work with, alot of aquamet 19 and 17 shafts stubs of all most any size you can think of, same cold roll , aluminum round 6061 pipe, bar, plate up to 1" thick, a lifetime of drop off's of jobs done. over here stainless is king because of the salt water. everything i made when i built a boat was stainless or aluminum, we stayed away from steel as much as we could. i even asked cummins if they could make the engine out of stainless, they got a good laugh out of that one. back to serious i was going to use cold roll to make those bullnose centers and see how accurate that lil dude is. i want to use the old style tool holder to start, im an oldschool kinda guy, i need to learn how the old folk's did it before i try the new i think this is how it goes, them new fangled things :groner: i couldn't help myself i had to slip that one in there. thanks Robert!

skimmerhead


Actually, the name is Jim, not Robert. You're not the first guy to misinterpret the quote on the bottom of my signature though. Maybe I should think about changing that.

Anyhow, I don't know anything about aquamet 19 or 17, so I can't comment on them, but I do know that stainless steel is a pain to machine. When you cut that stuff, you want to cut your spindle speeds back to about 20-25% of what you would normally run, use cutting tools with very positive clearance angles & use A LOT of coolant. SS is famous for overheating cutting tools, turning them blue & then making them into BFI material. 6061 aluminum likes pretty much the same tool tip geometry that stainless does, but with aluminum you can crank your feeds & speeds way up. 6061 is real easy to get a good finish on too.

When you make that bull nose center, you might want to think about getting a piece of something nice to work with, at least for the bull nose portion of the rig. The last one that I made got cut out of a piece of 4140 pre heat treat. That stuff holds up a lot better in a direct wear application than regular mild steels do. It finishes nice when you cut it properly too.

If you are going to start off with the old fashioned rocker tool posts, then you are going to be getting a lot of practice setting the tool height each time you change a tool. If that is going to be the case, then I strenuously recommend that the first thing you make is a center height measuring tool of some sort.

The old rocker posts are a bit labor intensive to work with, but they do offer one advantage over the more modern styles. The rockers allow you to fool around with your top rake angle a lot more & that leaves open the possibility of making up all kinds of chip hooks & such. Chip hooks are a whole subject un to themselves, much the same way that boolit casting is a subject un to itself within the realm of reloading. There is no way that a few paragraphs could possibly give you a full & complete background on all of the possibilities that exist in the world of top rake modification, so I'm not even going to try. I just say that top rake grinding is almost a lost art these days. There are very few guys left that can do it well, or that even know what sorts of tricks have been tried in the past.

Unfortunately, the amount of utility that is gained by the flexibility of a rocker tool post is horribly overshadowed by the poor rigidity of those old relics. Even if you forget about the extra labor involved in setting up a rocker, the lousy rigidity of those things makes them very frustrating to work with. You can't take any real heavy cuts & it is very hard to get a good finish with them. Having used one will make you appreciate the modern ones when you make the move up to real equipment though. From that perspective, they do have some value.

I'd love to see some pictures when you get things set up & running.

Regards,
Jim

[skimmerhead]

Actually, the name is Jim, not Robert. You're not the first guy to misinterpret the quote on the bottom of my signature though. Maybe I should think about changing that.

Anyhow, I don't know anything about aquamet 19 or 17, so I can't comment on them, but I do know that stainless steel is a pain to machine. When you cut that stuff, you want to cut your spindle speeds back to about 20-25% of what you would normally run, use cutting tools with very positive clearance angles & use A LOT of coolant. SS is famous for overheating cutting tools, turning them blue & then making them into BFI material. 6061 aluminum likes pretty much the same tool tip geometry that stainless does, but with aluminum you can crank your feeds & speeds way up. 6061 is real easy to get a good finish on too.

When you make that bull nose center, you might want to think about getting a piece of something nice to work with, at least for the bull nose portion of the rig. The last one that I made got cut out of a piece of 4140 pre heat treat. That stuff holds up a lot better in a direct wear application than regular mild steels do. It finishes nice when you cut it properly too.

If you are going to start off with the old fashioned rocker tool posts, then you are going to be getting a lot of practice setting the tool height each time you change a tool. If that is going to be the case, then I strenuously recommend that the first thing you make is a center height measuring tool of some sort.

The old rocker posts are a bit labor intensive to work with, but they do offer one advantage over the more modern styles. The rockers allow you to fool around with your top rake angle a lot more & that leaves open the possibility of making up all kinds of chip hooks & such. Chip hooks are a whole subject un to themselves, much the same way that boolit casting is a subject un to itself within the realm of reloading. There is no way that a few paragraphs could possibly give you a full & complete background on all of the possibilities that exist in the world of top rake modification, so I'm not even going to try. I just say that top rake grinding is almost a lost art these days. There are very few guys left that can do it well, or that even know what sorts of tricks have been tried in the past.

Unfortunately, the amount of utility that is gained by the flexibility of a rocker tool post is horribly overshadowed by the poor rigidity of those old relics. Even if you forget about the extra labor involved in setting up a rocker, the lousy rigidity of those things makes them very frustrating to work with. You can't take any real heavy cuts & it is very hard to get a good finish with them. Having used one will make you appreciate the modern ones when you make the move up to real equipment though. From that perspective, they do have some value.

I'd love to see some pictures when you get things set up & running.

Regards,
Jim

i can't believe i wrote robert:lol: i guess i won't be the last. tool post is exactly as you said, you have to use them to appreciate the new ones, the little iv'e messed with em so far tells me there going to be a pain. but i want to try em out since i have em. tool grinding been studying alot on that, i down loaded the MIT machinest text book and i have another i can't remember the name offhand and i have my old friend and his son that show me tool grinding how to grind and why and which cuts you can or can't make with em. they are alot of help. aquamet 19 is a stainless round bar that is used in this neck of the woods to make boat propeller shafts. it has a high content of steel in it to make it i want to say more ridged than harder. i don't remember the mix, i have it somewhere in my metalurgy book. i'll have to look for that one day. pics should be very soon, im allmost finished, just need to remove the jaws and clean and inspect for any problems and that should be it, lube it, put the grease on the gears and we'll be ready for a photo shoot. thanks JIM!

[skimmerhead]

Alright here is what you will need

12" OF SQUARE steel stock. I believe the size is 1/2" but measure the brass posts to be sure. I had some alying around so I didnt have to buy any.

Enco # 510-1961 sealed radial bearings. You will need 3

Enco# 319-8978 .005 shim washers, pack of 25. Watch out, they sent me one washer. They have the other 24 en route to me.

Enco# 319-9108 Shoulder socket screws. They come in packs of two, order two packs, you will need three.

I will post pics as I start the project, but once you see the items on Enco's website, you probably will understand what I am doing.

thanks for the list, will make a copy to put in my folder, pics are worth a thousand words. skimmerhead

[JIMinPHX]

i down loaded the MIT machinest text book

Where did you find that? I'd like to take a look at it.

Thanks,
Jim

[PatMarlin]

aquamet 19 is a stainless round bar that is used in this neck of the woods to make boat propeller shafts.

Oh that stuff is hard.

You work on boats Danny? My favorite east coast direct drive inboard is the Shamrock. I love those little pilot houses. Almost had one shipped back here until I found my SkipJack.

[skimmerhead]

Where did you find that? I'd like to take a look at it.

Thanks,
Jim

i'll have to look where i found it. it's somewhere on this forum, someone posted a reply to a thread about books on machine work, i think it's in the gunsmithing section, i'll have a look.

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

Oh that stuff is hard.

You work on boats Danny? My favorite east coast direct drive inboard is the Shamrock. I love those little pilot houses. Almost had one shipped back here until I found my SkipJack.

used to have shrimp boats, used to build em, wood, steel, aluminum, fiberglass, 14' all the way to 185', my last one was a 35 footer that did 28 knots with a cummins 350hp diesel. i'll send you a couple photos of it that were taken by Nat. Geo. photographer Bob Capote a few years back. they were here doing a story about coastal erosion and the effects it had on the fishing industry.

Danny

[skimmerhead]

Where did you find that? I'd like to take a look at it.

Thanks,
Jim

i went back and find it. it's in the gunsmithing tips, where to learn machine, posted by D Frame post #16 Hick Stick 10 he has a link to click on, by the way your post is #15. it takes awhile to load but it's good material. ok Jim that ought to hook you up.

Danny

[skimmerhead]

i'm gonna try to post some photo's of my lathe lil dude, i finially finished and will crank it up tomorrow. hey Pat, here's a photo of ole blue i took a week before i had to put him down.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

I just ordered my LatheMaster 9 x30! I hope it is as good as a number of people have said!

I'm am SCARED green! This is big money to me!

Wish me luck!

Best,
broom

[hickstick_10]

Skimmer you have good taste.

IMHO those later craftsmen lathes are good machines, and you have the quick change gear box AND power cross feed!!!! I beleive those ones have ball bearings as well, which is fantastic if so.

You'l get alot of enjoyment out of that fella.

[skimmerhead]

Skimmer you have good taste.

IMHO those later craftsmen lathes are good machines, and you have the quick change gear box AND power cross feed!!!! I beleive those ones have ball bearings as well, which is fantastic if so.

You'l get alot of enjoyment out of that fella.

yes it has timkin bearings, thank's for the complement, i put a lot of hours into going through it trying to find any hidden surprizes, and didn't find any. a lot of scrubbing and cleaning. i'm happy with the results and ready to do another one.

skimmerhead

[akajun]

Hi Guys,

I just ordered my LatheMaster 9 x30! I hope it is as good as a number of people have said!

I'm am SCARED green! This is big money to me!

Wish me luck!

Best,
broom

You wont regret it. I was at his warehouse the other day talking to him. Bob is a little behind on his shipments, he had a stack of lathes, just not enough time to get them all out in his normal speedy fashion.

[hickstick_10]

Where did you find that? I'd like to take a look at it.

Thanks,
Jim

lol I never knew it was an MIT textbook, but I checked the publishing marks and so it is.

Sadly, your not going to learn how to make rocket engines, robots and the like, since the publishing date on my copy is 1925!!!

Still the BEST textbook I have EVER seen for machining, it covers almost everything on manual machines. The link doesn't show you the whole book BTW, its worth getting a printed copy.

Link: http://www.metalwebnews.org/ftp/advanced-machine-work.pdf

[skimmerhead]

lol I never knew it was an MIT textbook, but I checked the publishing marks and so it is.

Sadly, your not going to learn how to make rocket engines, robots and the like, since the publishing date on my copy is 1925!!!

Still the BEST textbook I have EVER seen for machining, it covers almost everything on manual machines. The link doesn't show you the whole book BTW, its worth getting a printed copy.

Link: http://www.metalwebnews.org/ftp/advanced-machine-work.pdf

that's depressing new's, i was trying to get a contract with N.A.S.A. to build parts for the shuttle. oh well back to the drawing board. the date on mine is 1945 but there's still nothing on rocket engines in that one either, i wonder if M.I.T. takes 58 year old freshman? i'll check out your link, thanks.
skimmerhead :idea:

[PatMarlin]

i'm gonna try to post some photo's of my lathe lil dude, i finially finished and will crank it up tomorrow. hey Pat, here's a photo of ole blue i took a week before i had to put him down.

Sorry to hear of your loosing Old Blue, Danny. I dread the day I loose Snoop. Even think about it now when he's only 4 yrs old. They just don' t live long enough. Just ain't fair.

WOW- you really went to town on that beautiful lathe! I should hire you to fly out and go through my old Logan.

[skimmerhead]

Sorry to hear of your loosing Old Blue, Danny. I dread the day I loose Snoop. Even think about it now when he's only 4 yrs old. They just don' t live long enough. Just ain't fair.

WOW- you really went to town on that beautiful lathe! I should hire you to fly out and go through my old Logan.

i'm ready! and i work for coffee, had a blast going through it. that's my kinda fun, only it was a little one. the bigger they are the more fun it is. i hit a snag today when i started to warm it up and set the tension on the bearings, the switch broke. it's my fault i should have changed it when i put new wires but it was a cool looking switch and i wanted to use it. i'll have to try and find a similiar one, i think it's a furman or something like that. speaking of snoop, do you have him on heart worm medication?

Danny

[JIMinPHX]

That looks like a flat bed Atlas with a Craftsman name tag on it. They tend to be pretty good machines. It looks like you have a good start on tooling too.

I'm not sure which switch you have. "Furnas" is one of the common brands. They tend to be pricey sometimes. That's "sometimes" rather than "always". Some suppliers put a heck of a mark up on electrical parts. Others are a little more reasonable. It's worth calling around a little on a part like that. One guy might tell you $125, another guy might tell you $25.

The type of switch that you need will depend on the type of motor you have. If the motor is 3-phase, then the reversing switch, or reversing motor starter should be a fairly straight forward item. 3-phase stuff is kind of standard. If it is a single phase, reversing motor, then the switch might be one of a few different varieties depending on how many wires the motor has inside it. On a lathe, you really do want to have both directions of rotation working.

It looks like you may be missing a fan off the back end of that motor too. Or it might be something like a TENV motor that doesn't need a fan.

[skimmerhead]

That looks like a flat bed Atlas with a Craftsman name tag on it. They tend to be pretty good machines. It looks like you have a good start on tooling too.

I'm not sure which switch you have. "Furnas" is one of the common brands. They tend to be pricey sometimes. That's "sometimes" rather than "always". Some suppliers put a heck of a mark up on electrical parts. Others are a little more reasonable. It's worth calling around a little on a part like that. One guy might tell you $125, another guy might tell you $25.

The type of switch that you need will depend on the type of motor you have. If the motor is 3-phase, then the reversing switch, or reversing motor starter should be a fairly straight forward item. 3-phase stuff is kind of standard. If it is a single phase, reversing motor, then the switch might be one of a few different varieties depending on how many wires the motor has inside it. On a lathe, you really do want to have both directions of rotation working.

It looks like you may be missing a fan off the back end of that motor too. Or it might be something like a TENV motor that doesn't need a fan.

hi Jim, that switch was a furnas, should have rebuilt it or changed it but i didn't. i found a Bremas switch in my shed that's never been used, forgot i had it, i'll hook it up. i wonder if you can get parts for that furnas. it burned a contact out. the motor is a dayton and has no fan on it. your right about the atlas with a sear's badge, all the parts match the atlas parts manual. the only parts i had to change were the v belts and i made some new way wipes and one oiler el on the quick change box. i did not remove the headstock, i saw no need to, the timkin bearings were in great shape as was the spindle. the motor is single phase and has four wires coming out. i'll have to figure out how to wire that new switch. other than that it runs smooth at all speeds and surpriseingly quiet.

skimmerhead

[JIMinPHX]

You can sometimes get contact kits for the Furnas switches. Don't throw the old ones out. Those little round contact pads are either silver, or silver cadmium oxide. Either way, they are worth saving for their scrap value.

I don't know the brand "Bremas".

The "switch" is actually supposed to be a load rated motor starter. Some manual motor starters look like a switch, but they have jacked up current ratings compared to a typical switch. A motor will normally draw 6 times the full load amps that are written on the nameplate when it starts up from a dead stop. That 6x current is usually referred to as the locked rotor current. That big inrush of amps is why motors will usually fry a regular switch. You should really have a thermal overload protector on the motor too, so that something trips out before the motor burns up under an excessive load, but that may be getting a little too deep into it. They are a good idea though, because a lathe can easily overload a motor if you start taking a heavy cut or running at high speeds.

The motor should have a wiring diagram inside the little electrical box that is mounted on the side of it, where the wires go in. The diagram may also be inside the hump on the side of the motor where the capacitor is. If you have a diagram on the motor, then that is the one that you want to use. If not, then you need to do some scrounging. Since it is a Dayton brand motor, it came from Graingers & there might be a drawing available based on the part number of the motor. Since it is a Grainger motor, that probably means that somebody replaced the original at some point in time. The replacement motor may or may not be reversible. I have several wiring diagrams here, including one from a Craftsman lathe, but I don't seem to have one for a 4 wire motor. Capacitor start, single phase lathe motors usually have at least 6 wires. You may find that the motor has more wires inside the case that are not hooked up. If that is the case, please tell me how many you find there. Also, please let me know what color wires you have.

Atlas made a good machine. They are worth fixing up. That one looks pretty nice.

[skimmerhead]

You can sometimes get contact kits for the Furnas switches. Don't throw the old ones out. Those little round contact pads are either silver, or silver cadmium oxide. Either way, they are worth saving for their scrap value.

I don't know the brand "Bremas".

The "switch" is actually supposed to be a load rated motor starter. Some manual motor starters look like a switch, but they have jacked up current ratings compared to a typical switch. A motor will normally draw 6 times the full load amps that are written on the nameplate when it starts up from a dead stop. That 6x current is usually referred to as the locked rotor current. That big inrush of amps is why motors will usually fry a regular switch. You should really have a thermal overload protector on the motor too, so that something trips out before the motor burns up under an excessive load, but that may be getting a little too deep into it. They are a good idea though, because a lathe can easily overload a motor if you start taking a heavy cut or running at high speeds.

The motor should have a wiring diagram inside the little electrical box that is mounted on the side of it, where the wires go in. The diagram may also be inside the hump on the side of the motor where the capacitor is. If you have a diagram on the motor, then that is the one that you want to use. If not, then you need to do some scrounging. Since it is a Dayton brand motor, it came from Graingers & there might be a drawing available based on the part number of the motor. Since it is a Grainger motor, that probably means that somebody replaced the original at some point in time. The replacement motor may or may not be reversible. I have several wiring diagrams here, including one from a Craftsman lathe, but I don't seem to have one for a 4 wire motor. Capacitor start, single phase lathe motors usually have at least 6 wires. You may find that the motor has more wires inside the case that are not hooked up. If that is the case, please tell me how many you find there. Also, please let me know what color wires you have.

Atlas made a good machine. They are worth fixing up. That one looks pretty nice.

the bremas brand is a used a lot for boat lifts to raise and lower the boat, very popular in florida as it is desighed for wet locations, it is a quality switch, the contact points are not visible as in a drum switch. the contact points are enclosed in a cylinder type unit with only the screw connections are visible and are stainless steel and numbered. i found a site that shows wireing diagrams for this switch but they show five wires off the motor and mine has four. it worked fine with the furnas switch until the contact burned out so all i have to do is figure out the switch with my ohm meter i guess. the wires inside the motor are not colored, they have a brass tag with a # on each one, and there is the wireing diagram on the motor spec plate, it is reversible and 110 or 220 volts. now its wired 110. i'll look and map out the the wires in the motor see what they are and i'll get back to you. thanks for the help. skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

got the switch wired, every thing works great. i did my first project today, it was a pin with e-clips on each end, i grinded a few cutters,that is going to be the hardest part to master. i did all that and only cut two fingers. have band aids ready for tomorrow.

skimmerhead

[Buckshot]

got the switch wired, every thing works great. i did my first project today, it was a pin with e-clips on each end, i grinded a few cutters,that is going to be the hardest part to master. i did all that and only cut two fingers. have band aids ready for tomorrow.

skimmerhead

..............Don't get too tangled up in getting the angles exact. If you can, get a couple oil filled finishing stones. Get Norton or some other name brand. The 4" lengths work well for me. A half round, taper, and a 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide. After grinding stone them to a fine edge. If you're old like me :-) a but of magnification sure helps!

..............Buckshot

[skimmerhead]

..............Don't get too tangled up in getting the angles exact. If you can, get a couple oil filled finishing stones. Get Norton or some other name brand. The 4" lengths work well for me. A half round, taper, and a 1/4" thick x 1/2" wide. After grinding stone them to a fine edge. If you're old like me :-) a but of magnification sure helps!

..............Buckshot

thanks for the tip, i believe i have all the item's you refered to, magnification is a must, except when i look in the mirror. then i close my eye's. thanks

skimmerhead :-D

[PatMarlin]

They got mirrors back in LA? ...:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

When I was only using my manual machines- before I went to carbide inserts on the CNC, I bought one of those bench tool grinders at Harbor Freight on sale with a cupon for about $100.

I set the tables at the angles used for tool bits and can grind up perfect bits every time. I like HSS much better than inserts, but with CNC you got to use them. I've spent countless hours and days trying to find the perfect combination of insert choice for tool edge longevity, price, and finish.

Almost done with it, but even after a year plus, still fine tuning certain areas.

[skimmerhead]

They got mirrors back in LA? ...:mrgreen:

not too many in my house, i scare myself!

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

I scare myself too...

http://www.patmarlins.com/snooper.jpg

[skimmerhead]

When I was only using my manual machines- before I went to carbide inserts on the CNC, I bought one of those bench tool grinders at Harbor Freight on sale with a cupon for about $100.

I set the tables at the angles used for tool bits and can grind up perfect bits every time. I like HSS much better than inserts, but with CNC you got to use them. I've spent countless hours and days trying to find the perfect combination of insert choice for tool edge longevity, price, and finish.

Almost done with it, but even after a year plus, still fine tuning certain areas.

i made a bracket with an ajustable table to replace the original tool rest on my bench grinder out of aluminum years ago. i used it to grind angles on chisels and wood plane blades prior to the honing. the table tilts up or down to allmost any angle and i can move it as close to the wheel as i want and is very handy when grinding. but i was thinking about making one that can tilt side ways also giving the ability to grind compound angles. i have it figured out, just need to do it. it's on my bucket list. i figure i need to live another one hundred years to get to the end of the list. first on my list is to meet SNOOP!!!

skimmerhead

[JIMinPHX]

When you grind cutters, be sure to leave some clearance behind the actual cutting edge. Also remember that materials like SS & AL like very positive clearance angles on the cutting edge, while roughing tools sometimes work best when you run heavy cuts that bludgeon the material off with a negative rake angle. then there's the issue of chip control. Grinding an effective chip hook on the top of a tool is a nearly lost art. On bigger jobs & longer cuts, it can make a real difference.

[skimmerhead]

When you grind cutters, be sure to leave some clearance behind the actual cutting edge. Also remember that materials like SS & AL like very positive clearance angles on the cutting edge, while roughing tools sometimes work best when you run heavy cuts that bludgeon the material off with a negative rake angle. then there's the issue of chip control. Grinding an effective chip hook on the top of a tool is a nearly lost art. On bigger jobs & longer cuts, it can make a real difference.

hi jim, i'm useing the atlas operateing manual as my guide, following the tool bit shape and angles given. i also have an angle gage that is made to check angles grinded. my question is in the book it shows a 16 degree of angle on top when in the bit holder. now the bit holder has the angle already when you insert the bit. what happens when i switch to the axa 100 and the bits are clamped straight without the upward angle as in the lantern tool post. do i have to grind more top rake angle to compensate? i'll be useing 3/8 hss bits when i switch to the axa 100.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

Ooh, ooh, (raising hand here like Arnold Horshack).. I know the answer to that question. Yes.

[skimmerhead]

Ooh, ooh, (raising hand here like Arnold Horshack).. I know the answer to that question. Yes.

put SNOOP! back on.

[PatMarlin]

Kicking back in Dad's CFF...


http://www.patmarlins.com/cffsnoop.jpg


He was a pretty good boy...

http://www.patmarlins.com/cffsnoop2.jpg

[Linstrum]

I had a close friend that looked just like that pup when I first got her. Darned Labradors and related retrievers are about the best friend you can have if you want one that can follow you and swim with you under water!

Hey, skimmerhead, take a look at what I posted a year ago on what I use for cutting threads and easily sharpening the thread cutting tool bits.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67723&highlight=thread+cutting+tool

You can probably make something like this with a hacksaw, file, and inexpensive student's protractor from Walmart to get the 120º and 110º points on the ends. I used my milling machine to cut the points and got it done in a few minutes, but I still had to lay out and scribe the angles by hand.

Besides the 120º point used for sharpening tools for 60º threads, I included the 110º angle on my guide because I do 55º Whitworth threads, too. If you ever do any threading work on European milsurp rifles, you will have to cut your own threads because most of them use 55º Whitworth profile threads instead of the standard 60º profile threads that most U.S. and metric threads use. Most Enfields, BSAs, all Mausers, probably all Mosin-Nagants, and most other guns built using British thread-cutting equipment have inch-pitch 55º Whitworth system threads on most hardware as well as barrels regardless of whether the country of origin used the metric system for all other threaded stuff. Whitworth is a little different but you won't have any trouble cutting them if you sharpen your tool bit at 55º and adjust the compound to 54.5º or 55º (I use 55º myself) because Whitworth are in inch-pitches and the only commonly found bastard Whitworth pitches are the 3/8"x19tpi, 1/8"x27tpi, and 1/16"x27 turns per inch used in British gas and water taper and straight pipe plumbing fittings. For cutting threads real easily, I use a 3/16" wide relief-groove-top x 11/16" tall by ~3" long cobalt high speed steel parting tool bit in a parting tool holder that fits the Aloris -style quick change tool post in my lathe. When the guide jig in the photo is used correctly the required relief angles are automatically ground on the thread cutter tool bit if the steady rest and guide are positioned so that the tool bit top edge is pointing upward at an angle that is about 10º above the center of the grinding wheel mounting shaft.


rl886

[skimmerhead]

Kicking back in Dad's CFF...


http://www.patmarlins.com/cffsnoop.jpg


He was a pretty good boy...

http://www.patmarlins.com/cffsnoop2.jpg

man you really putting the squezze on me.

skimmerhead :groner:

[skimmerhead]

I had a close friend that looked just like that pup when I first got her. Darned Labradors and related retrievers are about the best friend you can have if you want one that can follow you and swim with you under water!

Hey, skimmerhead, take a look at what I posted a year ago on what I use for cutting threads and easily sharpening the thread cutting tool bits.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67723&highlight=thread+cutting+tool

You can probably make something like this with a hacksaw, file, and inexpensive student's protractor from Walmart to get the 120º and 110º points on the ends. I used my milling machine to cut the points and got it done in a few minutes, but I still had to lay out and scribe the angles by hand.

Besides the 120º point used for sharpening tools for 60º threads, I included the 110º angle on my guide because I do 55º Whitworth threads, too. If you ever do any threading work on European milsurp rifles, you will have to cut your own threads because most of them use 55º Whitworth profile threads instead of the standard 60º profile threads that most U.S. and metric threads use. Most Enfields, BSAs, all Mausers, probably all Mosin-Nagants, and most other guns built using British thread-cutting equipment have inch-pitch 55º Whitworth system threads on most hardware as well as barrels regardless of whether the country of origin used the metric system for all other threaded stuff. Whitworth is a little different but you won't have any trouble cutting them if you sharpen your tool bit at 55º and adjust the compound to 54.5º or 55º (I use 55º myself) because Whitworth are in inch-pitches and the only commonly found bastard Whitworth pitches are the 3/8"x19tpi, 1/8"x27tpi, and 1/16"x27 turns per inch used in British gas and water taper and straight pipe plumbing fittings. For cutting threads real easily, I use a 3/16" wide relief-groove-top x 11/16" tall by ~3" long cobalt high speed steel parting tool bit in a parting tool holder that fits the Aloris -style quick change tool post in my lathe. When the guide jig in the photo is used correctly the required relief angles are automatically ground on the thread cutter tool bit if the steady rest and guide are positioned so that the tool bit top edge is pointing upward at an angle that is about 10º above the center of the grinding wheel mounting shaft.


rl886

that's pretty cool, i filed that one on my desktop so i don't forget. thanks for the tip.

skimmerhead :p

[JIMinPHX]

Well Danny, it looks like you've now stumbled upon the down side of modern tool holders. While they give you quick tool changing ability & good repeatability, they lack the versatility of the earlier style.

On the old rocker posts, you had to set tool height every time you changed a tool, but you could fool around with the rocker gizmo & get just about any top rake angle that you wanted. Now, with an Aloris style holder, your tools are all held flat, with the exception of the Aloris style cut off tool which doesn't work very well anyway.

If you buy carbide insert tools, you can order different inserts with different chip curls built into them. If you are grinding your own tools from flat tool stock, like it sounds like you will be doing, then you have 2 choices. You can ignore the top rake angle, or you can grind an angle into the top of the tool. If you grind an angle into the top of the tool, then your tool tip height will change each time that you regrind a tool tip to sharpen it. That will force you to set your tool height over & over again. That's not so bad if you have plenty of tool holders & you can afford to leave a particular tool in a given tool holder permanently, but if you have a bunch of 3/8" bits & only 1 tool holder that they all share, then you are back to setting tool height every time that you change a tool.

In most cases, I either run carbide inserts or else I just settle for a flat top tool. Flat tops make it harder to get a good finish on some materials, but they do OK in most applications.

The side clearance angles on tool bits don't usually need to be perfect (except in the case of threading), but a small change in the top rake angle can make a big difference in the way that the chips come off. Top rake angle, & curved chip hooks ground into the top of a tool are almost more art than science. You just have to try them & see what works. Changes in feed rate, spindle speed, material being worked, lubricant, & to a lessor extent ambient temperature all affect the production of chips as well. It's all a fine balancing act.

When I was making gravuer cylinders for printing presses, I managed to find a tool/feed rate/spindle speed/coolant combination that allowed me to throw a continuous chip that would fall about 3 feet behind the compound like clockwork. I just put a 55 gallon drum there & I was able to turn about 25 cylinders without even needing to sweep up or empty the chip pan.

Linstrum, that's a really good idea, using a cut off tool for threading. I've been using ER style brazed tools for fine threads. I think that I'll give your method a go the next time that I need to cut threads up to a shoulder or the next time that I need to cut some really fine ones.

Pat, did I cover what you were going to say before you got distracted by pictures of man's best friend? or do you have some more info to add that I missed?

That is one cute pooch by the way.

[deltaenterprizes]

Make a tool height gage to speed up getting the tool on center. It can be as simple as a mark on the vertical rod on the mag base for your dial indicator.

[skimmerhead]

Make a tool height gage to speed up getting the tool on center. It can be as simple as a mark on the vertical rod on the mag base for your dial indicator.

i have a height gage, but it's all trial and error for me. finding the right spindle speed and feed rate for diameter of work and proper tool shape for desired finish! man this is fun! some people just love torture. hey you going home for christmas? boy a good seafood gumbo about now! makes my toe nails vibrate just thinking about it. happy hollidays.

skimmerhead :-P

[skimmerhead]

Well Danny, it looks like you've now stumbled upon the down side of modern tool holders. While they give you quick tool changing ability & good repeatability, they lack the versatility of the earlier style.

On the old rocker posts, you had to set tool height every time you changed a tool, but you could fool around with the rocker gizmo & get just about any top rake angle that you wanted. Now, with an Aloris style holder, your tools are all held flat, with the exception of the Aloris style cut off tool which doesn't work very well anyway.

If you buy carbide insert tools, you can order different inserts with different chip curls built into them. If you are grinding your own tools from flat tool stock, like it sounds like you will be doing, then you have 2 choices. You can ignore the top rake angle, or you can grind an angle into the top of the tool. If you grind an angle into the top of the tool, then your tool tip height will change each time that you regrind a tool tip to sharpen it. That will force you to set your tool height over & over again. That's not so bad if you have plenty of tool holders & you can afford to leave a particular tool in a given tool holder permanently, but if you have a bunch of 3/8" bits & only 1 tool holder that they all share, then you are back to setting tool height every time that you change a tool.

In most cases, I either run carbide inserts or else I just settle for a flat top tool. Flat tops make it harder to get a good finish on some materials, but they do OK in most applications.

The side clearance angles on tool bits don't usually need to be perfect (except in the case of threading), but a small change in the top rake angle can make a big difference in the way that the chips come off. Top rake angle, & curved chip hooks ground into the top of a tool are almost more art than science. You just have to try them & see what works. Changes in feed rate, spindle speed, material being worked, lubricant, & to a lessor extent ambient temperature all affect the production of chips as well. It's all a fine balancing act.

When I was making gravuer cylinders for printing presses, I managed to find a tool/feed rate/spindle speed/coolant combination that allowed me to throw a continuous chip that would fall about 3 feet behind the compound like clockwork. I just put a 55 gallon drum there & I was able to turn about 25 cylinders without even needing to sweep up or empty the chip pan.

Linstrum, that's a really good idea, using a cut off tool for threading. I've been using ER style brazed tools for fine threads. I think that I'll give your method a go the next time that I need to cut threads up to a shoulder or the next time that I need to cut some really fine ones.

Pat, did I cover what you were going to say before you got distracted by pictures of man's best friend? or do you have some more info to add that I missed?

That is one cute pooch by the way.

i figured i was getting into another dimension with that. i might be in the twilight zone! help! i hate to say it, but i can't resist, the pup is cuter than pat.

skimmerhead [smilie=l:

[JIMinPHX]

The art of making a good chip hook on top of a hand ground tool is a dieing art for a reason. It takes a long time & a lot of trial & error to become proficient. The returns from mastering that art are frequently only a little better than the results that you can get from buying a high end carbide insert. Most guys these days just buy the good inserts or do without improved chip control.

In the old days, learning to grind a tool top for good chip control was a bellwether of a good machinist, much like knowing how to use a file correctly. In much the same way that kids in school these days don't really pay much attention to spelling because "spell check will fix that", the machinists of today are loosing their grip on some of the most basic skills that once defined their profession.

Only someone who would waste his time on something as arcane as casting boolits would seem to appreciate this sort of thing anymore.

[deltaenterprizes]

i have a height gage, but it's all trial and error for me. finding the right spindle speed and feed rate for diameter of work and proper tool shape for desired finish! man this is fun! some people just love torture. hey you going home for christmas? boy a good seafood gumbo about now! makes my toe nails vibrate just thinking about it. happy hollidays.

skimmerhead :-P


I made a short trip to bring my Mom down to see my sister and my brother and returned the next day. I was in a rush to get the rental car back before they closed, I didn't get to get any shrimp grits but I did get a roast beef po' boy!
On the way down there we stopped at Prejean's in Lafaytte, boy those people know how to cook!
I picked up a Hornady lock n load at Cabela's in Gonzales at a great price $329!
I will be back in mid January to get my Mom and plan to get some shrimp grits then!

[skimmerhead]

The art of making a good chip hook on top of a hand ground tool is a dieing art for a reason. It takes a long time & a lot of trial & error to become proficient. The returns from mastering that art are frequently only a little better than the results that you can get from buying a high end carbide insert. Most guys these days just buy the good inserts or do without improved chip control.

In the old days, learning to grind a tool top for good chip control was a bellwether of a good machinist, much like knowing how to use a file correctly. In much the same way that kids in school these days don't really pay much attention to spelling because "spell check will fix that", the machinists of today are loosing their grip on some of the most basic skills that once defined their profession.

Only someone who would waste his time on something as arcane as casting boolits would seem to appreciate this sort of thing anymore.

i agree with you jim, i like the old school way of tool's, after all they built this country. when i use my old blacksmith's post drill to drill something, some ask why do you use that old thing when you have a good drill press. the only thing i tell em is it ain't the same. they don't know what it is to use a 100 year old hand saw that cuts better than any new one today. they buy a saw when it gets dull they throw it away. they don't understand that you can sharpen it. thats a dieing art. they don't know what it is to plane a board with a plane that's so sharp you can shave with it. they buy an electric one. i have a large collection of antique hand tool's and i like to use them whenever i can. they were made to last more than a lifetime and are still as good today as when they were new. i will master the lathe bit or die trying, that's just the way i am. i like a challenge, especialy when you have such knowlegeable friend's to help when you have a question. a man that doesen't make mistakes is a man that isn't doing his job, a man that doesen't learn from his mistake's doesen't want to do his job. i'll keep grinding and asking question's untill i get it right. thank's for tip Jim.

skimmerhead :-P

[deltaenterprizes]

Tool bit grinding was the second thing we learned in school after safety. We used 1/2'' key stock to learn on. When the teacher saw that the angles were right he gave us a piece of HSS to grind and use. Key stock was $5 for 10 feet, HSS was $5 for 4 inches.
I wish I was closer I would teach you how to grind bits.

[skimmerhead]

I made a short trip to bring my Mom down to see my sister and my brother and returned the next day. I was in a rush to get the rental car back before they closed, I didn't get to get any shrimp grits but I did get a roast beef po' boy!
On the way down there we stopped at Prejean's in Lafaytte, boy those people know how to cook!
I picked up a Hornady lock n load at Cabela's in Gonzales at a great price $329!
I will be back in mid January to get my Mom and plan to get some shrimp grits then!

now you talking man. shrimp grits, ain't heard dem words in awhile. can you get that in new york city? cabela's, i need to go, i have a gift card that i'm itching to spend. haven't gone in awhile. i been spending all my time on the lathe and none on shooting. i'll wait till after christmas, maybe the crowds won't be so bad. good to hear from you, think about me when you get dem grit's. [smilie=l:

skimmerhead [smilie=s:

[PatMarlin]

Guys-

Look at this Hendy that just sold for $462:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&autorefresh=true&hash=item20b5d3ded5&item=140489514709&nma=true&pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&rt=nc&si=heA8dC4IYJ1MpRvWHI4fGqCAI68%253D

Click "See full discription"

Holy cow, I wish that was on the west coast... :roll:

[skimmerhead]

Tool bit grinding was the second thing we learned in school after safety. We used 1/2'' key stock to learn on. When the teacher saw that the angles were right he gave us a piece of HSS to grind and use. Key stock was $5 for 10 feet, HSS was $5 for 4 inches.
I wish I was closer I would teach you how to grind bits.

never thought of that. have some laying around. thanks

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

Guys-

Look at this Hendy that just sold for $462:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&autorefresh=true&hash=item20b5d3ded5&item=140489514709&nma=true&pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&rt=nc&si=heA8dC4IYJ1MpRvWHI4fGqCAI68%253D

Click "See full discription"

Holy cow, I wish that was on the west coast... :roll:

that's my problem, every thing is located in another universe, local pickup only! i'll go spend my summer vacation with snoop, he can help me work on your lathe, and maybe i can find a good deal along the way.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

I'm up for working on Dad's lathes, in between meals.

http://www.patmarlins.com/snoop1.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Or nap times...

http://www.patmarlins.com/napsnoops.jpg

[JIMinPHX]

Guys-

Look at this Hendy that just sold for $462:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&autorefresh=true&hash=item20b5d3ded5&item=140489514709&nma=true&pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&rt=nc&si=heA8dC4IYJ1MpRvWHI4fGqCAI68%253D

Click "See full discription"

Holy cow, I wish that was on the west coast... :roll:

That's a smaller version of the one that I used to have. Mine had a 16 or 18" chuck & #5MT in the tail stock. Man, that thing would take a heavy cut without crying about it. It was the strongest lathe that I ever owned. It would still hold half a thou & give a good finish if I did my part.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Guys-

Look at this Hendy that just sold for $462:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&autorefresh=true&hash=item20b5d3ded5&item=140489514709&nma=true&pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&rt=nc&si=heA8dC4IYJ1MpRvWHI4fGqCAI68%253D

Click "See full discription"

Holy cow, I wish that was on the west coast... :roll:


Yeah, I was watching that sale. I figured it would be a good parts machine for mine. But just like everyone else, it was too far away for me.

Regards,
Everett

[JIMinPHX]

Everett, how did you make out with yours? Did you ever get that gear?

[skimmerhead]

AKAJUN, what's up? you ever get around to fixing your steady rest? i ordered the parts list you gave me today from enco. just wondering if you made any progress. been hunting? where's the meat! i got a six pointer with my muzzel loader laying on the sofa the other day.

skimmerhead :-D

[PatMarlin]

6 pointers like your sofa too?

[akajun]

AKAJUN, what's up? you ever get around to fixing your steady rest? i ordered the parts list you gave me today from enco. just wondering if you made any progress. been hunting? where's the meat! i got a six pointer with my muzzel loader laying on the sofa the other day.

skimmerhead :-D


Yes I got it done, However it took a little more than I thought to get it going. You will have to cut the shoulder back on the shoulder screws about .15 or so, you will see what I mean when you go to assemble it.
Ill try to get you some pics if you need them.
I'm about hunted out for this year since we are in area 2 and it ends early. Didnt get in the woods as much as I would have liked, Free time to get out of town is valuable when you have young kids and job with mandatory overtime and call out. I did get to kill 7 hogs with 4 shots from my 45-70 handy rifle ( yes really) with Cast WW and a nice 8pt 161/2 spread and 225 lbs with my 7 mag and a nosler partition. Gonna try to go this weekend with my 4yo if its not too cold for him.

[skimmerhead]

6 pointers like your sofa too?

i know it sounds crazy, but it's true. this is how i got that deer sitting on the sofa. good friend calls me, hey buddy! what's up? i have a chance to go on a hunting trip in mississippi but i don't have a muzzle loader, can i borrow yours, he shot the deer with my gun while i was on the sofa. then he delivers the gun and the deer all dressed. easiest deer i ever got. brought it to the processor, it's in the freezer


snoop's friend [smilie=s:

[skimmerhead]

Yes I got it done, However it took a little more than I thought to get it going. You will have to cut the shoulder back on the shoulder screws about .15 or so, you will see what I mean when you go to assemble it.
Ill try to get you some pics if you need them.
I'm about hunted out for this year since we are in area 2 and it ends early. Didnt get in the woods as much as I would have liked, Free time to get out of town is valuable when you have young kids and job with mandatory overtime and call out. I did get to kill 7 hogs with 4 shots from my 45-70 handy rifle ( yes really) with Cast WW and a nice 8pt 161/2 spread and 225 lbs with my 7 mag and a nosler partition. Gonna try to go this weekend with my 4yo if its not too cold for him.

sounds like a nice buck. and a lot of pork chops! i shoot 7 short mag 140gr it suits me just right. been a long time since i shot it. i might go to the camp in alabama next week and try to do a little hunting, it's stays open till the end of the month i think. i don't know when i'll get to work on that steady rest but i'll give you a holler.

skimmerhead :arrow: :cbpour:

[skimmerhead]

shoulda turned left, but i turned right. dem gears is tougher than i thought, only broke two of em.

skimmerhead :arrow: :veryconfu

[deltaenterprizes]

That did not take long! LOL Sorry to hear that.

[skimmerhead]

That did not take long! LOL Sorry to hear that.

i knew it was gonna happen, it was just a matter of time. i was cutting a thread on a 3/4 inch 1020 rod and all was going well i was allmost finished and didn't pay attention when i turned the dial back to 0 so i could set the compound for a one thousandt cut, i didn't check the dial setting. it was at 0 but one whole turn farther in. when i engaged the feed it went weird, broke a couple teeth on the 40t gear and the compound gear. i have the 40t gear but not the compound gear. i'll call clausing in the mourning see if they have one. man i was pissed at myself! i couldn't believe i did that. i'm going to leave it alone for awhile. too many things distracting me lately, i should not have been on that machine today. my thoughts are elsewhere and thats what happens. but i'll fix it and probably break a few more times before it's all over.

skimmerhead :lol:

[deltaenterprizes]

The good thing is that parts are available!
Try inquiring on the Home Shop Machinist forum for sources of parts. There was advertisements in the magazines in the past for Atlas parts, but I can not find them now.
I will put a post on there for you.

[skimmerhead]

The good thing is that parts are available!

yeah that's a good thing. i'm not really pissed at the lathe but at myself, been running equipment too many years, i know better. a best friend died two weeks ago, first cousin died sat. night, my older brother's in the hospital and it don't look good for him. i sure could use a keg of tequilla. but it could be worse, could have two broken legs and no crutchs. :lol:

skimmerhead

[akajun]

Ouch!!! Try Ebay, there is a good selection of parts on there, and one guy that specializes in old atlas parts. Might be cheaper.

[skimmerhead]

Ouch!!! Try Ebay, there is a good selection of parts on there, and one guy that specializes in old atlas parts. Might be cheaper.

i looked everywhere last nite and the only one i found was off a 10 inch, same gear but the washer to keep the gear on the inside is not on that older model. i think i could press the small diameter gear out and press it on my gear that has the washer, the bigger gear was not damaged, only the small center gear.

skimmerhead :arrow::groner:

[deltaenterprizes]

Try Joe at : http://www.plazamachinery.com/

[skimmerhead]

Try Joe at : http://www.plazamachinery.com/
i ordered one with clausing this mourning. it was about 62 bucks i think, and the nice lady sent me a atlas accessory catalog with available item's. i needed a new rocker for my tool post, it had about 1/4 inch broken off the end and it was a little annoying so i ordered one. 8 bucks, cheaper than i could get one on flea bay. i'm gonna find another 40 tooth gear to replace the one from my set that i had to use. i will check out that link and see what's there. thanks for the tip. this summer i'll be looking to upgrade to a bigger machine, i bet that's surprizeing! ha! about a 15x50 seems to tickle me. leblond, clausing, some american iron. i should be able to get around by the summer, they gonna do surgery on my knee. i been watching lathe video on you tube, that's pretty helpful. i figure this time next year i'll be able to cut a thread without crashing.

skimmerhead :arrow: :cbpour:

[hickstick_10]

what size of motor do you have on that atlas lathe?

[skimmerhead]

what size of motor do you have on that atlas lathe?

1/2 hp. dayton

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

You know you can fix those teeth on gears.

I helped a buddy replace gear teeth on his 100 year old lathe. We cut a piece of stock ground to fit and braised them on. Then filed to shape. Still working like a champ for years now.

[skimmerhead]

You know you can fix those teeth on gears.

I helped a buddy replace gear teeth on his 100 year old lathe. We cut a piece of stock ground to fit and braised them on. Then filed to shape. Still working like a champ for years now.

i didn't think you could fix those gears. i thought they were made with some kinda retarted metal or some thing. iv'e been practicing the karate kid wax on wax off thing. maybe i'll remember to turn it left, instead of right. :groner:

snoop's friend

[S.R.Custom]

You know you can fix those teeth on gears.

I helped a buddy replace gear teeth on his 100 year old lathe. We cut a piece of stock ground to fit and braised them on.

Nope. Unless you're skilled at brazing ZAMAK (Zinc, Aluminum, Magnesium & Copper alloy), of course... :wink:

[PatMarlin]

Zamak?

I thought you were talking about your steel threading ratio gears?

Nope? Huh?

[Red River Rick]

An excellent source for spur gears: http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/boston-gear/gear-catalog/9195-66215.html

Browse thru their cataloge, you'll probably find what you need or someday may need.

RRR

[skimmerhead]

Zamak?

I thought you were talking about your steel threading ratio gears?

Nope? Huh?

thats the stuff, zamak, i told you it was some retard metal. i have an extra gear to replace it, the problem is when the lathe bogged and the tooth broke it turned into the compound gear and chewed it up. i called clausing and got one coming 62 bucks, so that'll fix that. wax on wax off.[smilie=p:

skim

[S.R.Custom]

Zamak?

I thought you were talking about your steel threading ratio gears?

Nope? Huh?

Atlas gears (and pulleys) are Zamak.

Not a bad choice of materials, actually. Pull that same trick with an all-steel lathe and I can guarantee the bill would be a bit more than $62.00...

[skimmerhead]

Atlas gears (and pulleys) are Zamak.

Not a bad choice of materials, actually. Pull that same trick with an all-steel lathe and I can guarantee the bill would be a bit more than $62.00...

i think your right, had it not been for that sticky goop on the gears the broken tooth would have fallen it would be a quick fix, since i had the extra 40 tooth gear. those gears are tougher than i thought they were, maybe it's not a retard metal after all. i found the problem that caused the crash, it was the nut behind the steering wheel!!! so wax on, wax off. hey pat how about a tutorial on left wheel, right wheel, help out a buddy. you know how dem swamp people are! :mrgreen:

snoop's friend :bigsmyl2:

[S.R.Custom]

...those gears are tougher than i thought they were, maybe it's not a retard metal after all.

Well, actually, anyone with any sense would prefer steel or iron gears, but what using Zamak did do was to keep the price of a lathe waaay down...


...one very important advantage of [pressure injected cast] ZAMAK was a surface finish so smooth that the need for machining was often eliminated, leading to a substantial time and cost savings. The mix used to produce ZAMAK has always varied to suit a particular application - for example ZAMAK 5 consists of 4% Aluminium, 1% Copper, 0.05% Magnesium with the rest Zinc - and it is known that Atlas choose to use one of the more durable varieties...

Link: http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/
Scroll down to the 2nd paragraph for the whole story.

I remember reading somewhere that Atlas sold like half a million 10" lathes worldwide, and they were able to do that by keeping manufacturing costs down, making the Atlas 10" the Ford F150 of the lathe world. Hence the Zamak. It's not the best gear material around, but its tensile strength is on par with cast iron, and if you keep it loobed correctly (and don't crash the carriage), it'll last just as long.

[PatMarlin]

Never even heard of Zamak. Sho's ya how much I know ...:mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

I never heard of Zamak either....

http://www.patmarlins.com/snooper.jpg

[257]

hi about 10 years ago my buddy broke a gear on his atlas, got a replacment from boston gear they make gears. millions of them reasonable. he called them sent them his old gear and got a new one in about 2 weeks was about 20.00

[S.R.Custom]

Huge tip there 257! thank you! I remember using them as a vendor when I worked in MFRing years ago, and had forgotten all about them.

[skimmerhead]

I never heard of Zamak either....

http://www.patmarlins.com/snooper.jpg

sorry snoop, i was busy and forgot you. i'll make it up to you.

snoop's friend :arrow: [smilie=s:

[PatMarlin]

hi about 10 years ago my buddy broke a gear on his atlas, got a replacment from boston gear they make gears. millions of them reasonable. he called them sent them his old gear and got a new one in about 2 weeks was about 20.00

Wonder if they can help Springfield with his Hendy gears?

[PatMarlin]

Here's what I did for fun yesterday...

A dear friend of mine gave me this awesome screw geared block hoist, and I believe it's a safe hoist as you'll notice the name "Yale". Also stamped Alemada County, Ca. Maybe came from Alcatraz Island.. :mrgreen: You know it's got to be old and it turns as smooth as a Swiss watch. 4000 lbs.

Truly, a work of fine American art. Like to see the chicoms try to craft that.

http://www.patmarlins.com/1yale.jpg



Have to use a hoist to hoist the hoist:

http://www.patmarlins.com/2yale.jpg


Needed to put my Supermax YCM-40 CNC mill in it's resting place, inside the shop extension I'm framing. CNC computer control is out of the cabinet and resting in a box indoors, and I'm relocating the elect panel that was mounted on the rear to the side so I can get the machine closer to the wall. This beast takes up a heck of a lot of room with a long X travel. Bout' 9 feet.

http://www.patmarlins.com/1dollymax.jpg


Only problem is the mill is over 2800 lbs and setting on 4 Harbor Freight dollies. You would be amazed what I've done with these $9.95 wood dollies.


http://www.patmarlins.com/2dollymax.jpg

So I have to push the mill in the general location with my CAT skid steer then hoist it up with Mr. Yale.


http://www.patmarlins.com/4dollymax.jpg


http://www.patmarlins.com/5dollymax.jpg


Looks like my framing meets the 100lb snow load requirement... :mrgreen:

http://www.patmarlins.com/6dollymax.jpg



http://www.patmarlins.com/7dollymax.jpg

[S.R.Custom]

... it's a safe hoist as you'll notice the name "Yale". ...it turns as smooth as a Swiss watch. 4000 lbs. Truly, a work of fine American art. Like to see the chicoms try to craft that.

Careful now. That pulley's made of Zamak.

[S.R.Custom]

:kidding:

[skimmerhead]

:kidding:

you got me with that one!!! :lol:

skimmerhead :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

Careful now. That pulley's made of Zamak.

Knuck, knuck. Your avatar freaks me out,. Who is that? ...:mrgreen:

Today...

http://www.patmarlins.com/3shopmax.jpg



http://www.patmarlins.com/2shopmax.jpg

36" door's going in there.

[S.R.Custom]

That's W... and the words carved to the right are "Miss Me?" I put it up fr halloweeen, and have been too lazy to change it.

[PatMarlin]

Oh I can see it now. Compared to Obama, I miss him. Compared to Ronald Reagan, not really.

[S.R.Custom]

I was going to do an Elmer Keith pumpkin avatar, but I don't think most folks would have gotten the joke...

[PatMarlin]

Rocky says it looks more like a Pimp's hat from his point of view...

http://www.patmarlins.com/rocky1.jpg

[JIMinPHX]

hi about 10 years ago my buddy broke a gear on his atlas, got a replacment from boston gear they make gears. millions of them reasonable. he called them sent them his old gear and got a new one in about 2 weeks was about 20.00

That works if your gear is a standard one from their catalog, or just needs to have a different bore put in it. Unfortunately for people with old Hendy lathes, The pressure angle that was used back then is not so widely available now & the sizes of gears needed in that odd variety are like hen's teeth. Custom gears can be hobbed to fit, but custom gear shops ain't cheap.

Boston, Martin & Browning are the three places that I look for standard gears. If they don't have what I need, then I dig in for an up hill battle.

[JIMinPHX]

Pat,
You scare me a little, hoisting off of wooden beams like that. There have been cases of people pulling buildings down on top of themselves when trying that trick. I guess that your shop must be built pretty solid if you got away with it.

[Linstrum]

Jim is absolutely right about bringing the roof down from lifting using rafters that are in the middle of a long unsupported span. Need to remember about doing that!

Roofing beams can be used safely if you take some precautions first by propping them up with sturdy uprights so it is actually the uprights that take all the guff of lifting. I used to pull the engines out of my cars using the roof joists in my old garage by putting two 4x4 posts on each side of the car and getting them up tight under the roof joists by pounding wood shingle shims under the 4x4s. Then I'd run another 4x4 across the tops of the supported joists and they'd take the weight no problem.

The places in the photos where the lifting is being done look like they have upright supports under the horizontal beams from the load bearing walls, so it would take a lot more than his mill to bring the roof down where the lifting is taking place pretty close to an outside or inside load-bearing wall. Might be a different story in the winter with several tons of snow on the roof, though!


rl904

[PatMarlin]

Definitely do not try that at home boys and girls. It was a calculated risk.

I fell the trees, milled the beams, and built the building so I have an idea of what it will take where.

That is all heavy full saw dimension, (not planed down) No 1 grade Douglas Fir- 6x6's, 2x12's, 6x12's, and 6x10's and 2x6's. Yes my chain runs over the 2x6 rafter ties, but on top of that is 5/4 (1 1/4") planks with 2x6's on top of that spreading the load across the whole wall on that side.

It didn't even grunt.

Even with that did I stand and look up from underneath while pulling chain? Or course not. Even I'm not that deaf... :mrgreen: If it came down it came down, and I would have to rebuild it.

[skimmerhead]

Definitely do not try that at home boys and girls. It was a calculated risk.

I fell the trees, milled the beams, and built the building so I have an idea of what it will take where.

That is all heavy full saw dimension, (not planed down) No 1 grade Douglas Fir- 6x6's, 2x12's, 6x12's, and 6x10's and 2x6's. Yes my chain runs over the 2x6 rafter ties, but on top of that is 5/4 (1 1/4") planks with 2x6's on top of that spreading the load across the whole wall on that side.

It didn't even grunt.

Even with that did I stand and look up from underneath while pulling chain? Or course not. Even I'm not that deaf... :mrgreen: If it came down it came down, and I would have to rebuild it.

seems like alot of work, a sky hook made out of zamak would have worked fine.

snoop's friend [smilie=f:

[Linstrum]

I wonder how many guys here have their own sawmills? Seven years ago I bought a Hud-Son bandsaw mill that'll do trees up 32 inches in diameter. I just love ripping a 30-inch diameter tree into slabs and then those into full dimension 2x6s and 2x4s, hearing that Twin cylinder Briggs WORK making sawdust so fast I need a broom and shovel to clear it off the tracks. Lots of use for good inexpensive lumber like that!


rl905

[PatMarlin]

Linstrum, there are a few sawyers here at Cast Boolits.

I started 11 years ago with a chainsaw mill and was hooked, but quickly learned I had the wrong mill for all the lumber I was going to need so I invested in a used Woodmizer LT-40 HD hydraulic mill, then upgraded and rebuilt it. It's paid for itself a few times over by now I imagine.

Fun stuff.

[akajun]

If only you sawyers lived closer to me. I had to cut a right of way in a bottom this year for a power line. 200yds long and 30ft wide. Took out several pines 20"bhd and several oaks 18bhd. no limbs/knots. Tried to get a logger that was working the area to cut and haul them off, but he said unless he could get several loads, it did not pay for him to move his equip, even if I gave him the trees.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

WOW! thats one big machine! It's eazy when you have the equipment to move it safely.
I bought a small lathe just before Christmas.
It was a big deal for me to locate & borrow a engine hoist.
So, I could safely move a 450 pound Lathermaster 9x30 lathe on to the work table from the Harbor Freight dolly.

Screwing around lifting & moving the lathe, with three other old guys with a long 4 x4 did not seem to be a smart move to me!
It's mounted now & I even made a few cuts with it! BIG SMILE!

Best,
broomhandle

[skimmerhead]

A 2 steel round bar not heat treated, what could you use it for? how do you heat treat it and why? was offered some in various sizes, but don't know what it's used for.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

Take it with a thanks and run Danny. Materials are expensive.

[Linstrum]

A 2 round steel bar? Do you mean a 2-inch diameter round steel bar? How long?

Pat Marlin is right, take it and run!

A lot of steel is not sold in its heat treated form. Steel (steel is not IRON, steel is an alloy of iron with other metals and/or carbon) is heat-treated by heating above its critical transition point where the cubic crystal structure of the steel changes from the Martensitic to the Austenitic form, which is somewhere around 1340ºF or a real bright red heat, and then quenching in water to maintain the Austenitic form. After that it is hard, but not necessarily strong. Hardened steel is pretty useless until it is TEMPERED. Hardened steel is tempered by carefully re-heating the piece of steel to a point where some of the Austenite starts to turn back into the soft but malleable Martensite, somewhere around 350ºF to about 900ºF. 900ºF is the very first sign of red heat and must be observed indoors to be able to see. The higher the tempering temperature the softer the steel becomes. Because carbon steel begins to lose its hardness at about the same temperature you cook cookies at, it is REAL DARNED IMPORTANT NOT TO GET GUN PARTS, LIKE BOLTS AND BARRELS, NO HOTTER THAN 350ºF! I'm amazed that people talk about their machine gun barrels getting red hot, they are pretty close to bursting when that hot because red hot steel has very little strength to withstand the 65,000 psi piezo method pressure of the .30-06. Motor oil just begins to smoke at that temperature, so if you have gun parts that are hot, if they are smoking hot they may be ruined! That's the basic basics of steel. it is pretty complex and whole libraries are written about heat treating high alloy steels.

Use your imagination for making stuff, I'd love to have a chunk of plain AISI 1018 carbon alloy type low carbon steel!


rl910

[skimmerhead]

Take it with a thanks and run Danny. Materials are expensive.

can't run! on crutchs, but i'll try.

snoops friend :lol:

[Red River Rick]

A2 Tool Steel is Air Quench (meaning you cool it in still air, not oil or water) and has a upper critical temp of 1850 F. Very high Chromium content and has a very high wear resistance.

Make for excellent punches and small parts. Annealed, it probably runs around 30 - 32 Rc. Best to machine it with carbide tooling, or if your using HSS, use the proper cutting speed formula's.

Depending on diameter, that A2 is worth between $10 -$15 lb.

RRR

[skimmerhead]

thanks guys, that is some very interesting stuff. i figured it was some kinda special steel. i'll tell my friend to drop it off when he comes back down. he live's in mississippi but works down here offshore. i suppose i should get me a book for that kinda stuff, wouldn't have to ask stupid question's! thanks

skimmerhead :drinks:

[JIMinPHX]

A2 is a general purpose air hardening tool steel. It's actual composition is 1.0% C, 1.0% Mn, 5.0% Cr, 0.3% Ni, 1.0% Mo, 0.15–0.50% V. Air hardening means that once you heat it, you don't need to quench it to get it hard. It just gets hard all by itself as it cools in an atmosphere of plain old room temperature air. It's a little more expensive than O1 (oil hardening drill rod) or W1 (water hardening drill rod) which are the other two most common general purpose tool steels.

A2 will cut OK with HSS tooling as long as you keep it cool. Once its gotten a little hot, then carbide is needed. Once it has gotten real hot, then grinding is probably your only good option. I don't know how to anneal it.

The McMaster Carr catalog is a good place to start getting a basic knowledge of the different steels that are out there & what you might want to use them for. http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-tool-steel/=apc4f6

A2 is handy stuff to have around. It's not the easiest stuff to cut, but it is the easiest stuff to make hard.

[skimmerhead]

A2 is a general purpose air hardening tool steel. It's actual composition is 1.0% C, 1.0% Mn, 5.0% Cr, 0.3% Ni, 1.0% Mo, 0.15–0.50% V. Air hardening means that once you heat it, you don't need to quench it to get it hard. It just gets hard all by itself as it cools in an atmosphere of plain old room temperature air. It's a little more expensive than O1 (oil hardening drill rod) or W1 (water hardening drill rod) which are the other two most common general purpose tool steels.

A2 will cut OK with HSS tooling as long as you keep it cool. Once its gotten a little hot, then carbide is needed. Once it has gotten real hot, then grinding is probably your only good option. I don't know how to anneal it.

The McMaster Carr catalog is a good place to start getting a basic knowledge of the different steels that are out there & what you might want to use them for. http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-tool-steel/=apc4f6

A2 is handy stuff to have around. It's not the easiest stuff to cut, but it is the easiest stuff to make hard.

thanks Jim, will check out Mc master Carr they have about anything you can think of. i bought the oil for lubing my lathe and a few other things in the last few months. i like ordering with them, it's hassell free and they ship fast. thanks for the info.

skimmerhead [smilie=s:

[skimmerhead]

does anyone have a taper attachment for a 12" atlas? would like to build my own.

skimmerhead

[S.R.Custom]

You don't need it. Just put your workpiece on centers and offset your tailstock...

You'll need to do that anyway for a barrel, as the taper attachment only works for stuff a few inches long... 11" I think is the max for that attachment.

[hickstick_10]

You want it if your doing taper threads. or a tapered bore..................

plus you can always disconnect the taper attachment if you want to do something else.

Not an atlas attachment but maybe it will get you in the right direction?
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Taper_Turning_Attachment.html

[skimmerhead]

You don't need it. Just put your workpiece on centers and offset your tailstock...

You'll need to do that anyway for a barrel, as the taper attachment only works for stuff a few inches long... 11" I think is the max for that attachment.

i really don't want to do any barrell work cause i don't know much about that. i want to make one to make my own morse tapers, bull nose, dead center, live center, ect. should be some good experence. i,m finally getting the hang of grinding cutting bit's. threading and turning, i grinded one 5/16 bit to cut radius and it worked great. i just finished useing it to finish the handle for my draw bar for collets. was working on the bushing for the bar when my honey bunn hollered it was supper time, i'll finish it tomorrow. i need some experence with the taper attachment so when i upgrade to a bigger lathe i'll be cutting a lot of propeller shafts.

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

You want it if your doing taper threads. or a tapered bore..................

plus you can always disconnect the taper attachment if you want to do something else.

Not an atlas attachment but maybe it will get you in the right direction?
http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Taper_Turning_Attachment.html

the thing is i'm not very good with trigonometry, and was hoping someone could give me a measurement from the pivot point to the end of the pointer so i could check my marks for accuracey. thanks i'll check out the link.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

Danny, first off you have to know morse code to do a morse taper.

[hickstick_10]

The pointer is a very rough guide, they're marked with the accuracy of a 5 dollar protractor. And you can set your marks with the same protractor on the slide. Some of the better taper attachments have a vernier scale, but you still have to rely one something a little more accurate for really bang on tapers, since those vernier scales are marked in 5 minutes of an angle.

If you want to do your own morse taper shanks where 100 percent contact is critical. You use a dial indicator over a one inch travel (2 inches is better if you get the long travel ones) or your DRO. You have another dial set up on your cross slide to measure how far it moves. Its realy critical that you get it pretty darn close with self holding tapers like the morse tapers. The difference in a few thou per inch in taper will make the difference between a good self holding taper and a lawn dart.

Im going to assume your using the old style taper attachment and not the telescoping type, because you have to rid the backlash on the telescoping.

I dont remember what the morse taper angle is off hand but I will do an example with pipe thread for you NPT with an angle of one degree and 47 minutes. or 3/4 of an inch per foot, to get an angle from a taper ratio its tan-1(rise/run) or tan-1(amount cross slide moves/amount carriage travel)

NPT tapers 3/4 inch per foot in diameter, which means your diameter increases by .75 an inch for every 12 inches in travel.

.75 divided by 12 will give you how much your diameter increases in one inch, and this translates into HALF THAT DISTANCE your cross slide will travel in one inch.

.75/12=.0625 This is your diameter taper per one inch

(.75/12)/2=0.03125 This is your radius taper per one inch

In english, you alter the angle of your taper attachment bit by bit until you get to the point were when you move your carriage one inch, your cross slide will move 0.03125. you can then mark your ratio of angle on the attachment regardless of its distance of the pointer from the pivot length. You place dial indicater with the plunger contacting the carriage, with the magnet on the ways to measure how far the carriage is moving (in this case one inch) and you place the other dial with the plunger on the cross slide, with the magnet on the cross slide ways to measure how far your cross slide moves (in this case 0.03125)

And since perfection only exists in dreams and pornos, I alter the attachment till it reads just a hair over 0.031, split the last graduation in quarters if you must, or buy one of those really expensive dials that read in half tenths.

heres the morse taper angles I just dug up, give it a try.
http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/m/o/morse%20taper/source.html

[skimmerhead]

The pointer is a very rough guide, they're marked with the accuracy of a 5 dollar protractor. And you can set your marks with the same protractor on the slide. Some of the better taper attachments have a vernier scale, but you still have to rely one something a little more accurate for really bang on tapers, since those vernier scales are marked in 5 minutes of an angle.

If you want to do your own morse taper shanks where 100 percent contact is critical. You use a dial indicator over a one inch travel (2 inches is better if you get the long travel ones) or your DRO. You have another dial set up on your cross slide to measure how far it moves. Its realy critical that you get it pretty darn close with self holding tapers like the morse tapers. The difference in a few thou per inch in taper will make the difference between a good self holding taper and a lawn dart.

Im going to assume your using the old style taper attachment and not the telescoping type, because you have to rid the backlash on the telescoping.

I dont remember what the morse taper angle is off hand but I will do an example with pipe thread for you NPT with an angle of one degree and 47 minutes. or 3/4 of an inch per foot, to get an angle from a taper ratio its tan-1(rise/run) or tan-1(amount cross slide moves/amount carriage travel)

NPT tapers 3/4 inch per foot in diameter, which means your diameter increases by .75 an inch for every 12 inches in travel.

.75 divided by 12 will give you how much your diameter increases in one inch, and this translates into HALF THAT DISTANCE your cross slide will travel in one inch.

.75/12=.0625 This is your diameter taper per one inch

(.75/12)/2=0.03125 This is your radius taper per one inch

In english, you alter the angle of your taper attachment bit by bit until you get to the point were when you move your carriage one inch, your cross slide will move 0.03125. you can then mark your ratio of angle on the attachment regardless of its distance of the pointer from the pivot length. You place dial indicater with the plunger contacting the carriage, with the magnet on the ways to measure how far the carriage is moving (in this case one inch) and you place the other dial with the plunger on the cross slide, with the magnet on the cross slide ways to measure how far your cross slide moves (in this case 0.03125)

heres the morse taper angles I just dug up, give it a try.
http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/m/o/morse%20taper/source.html

i'll look it up. i have the atlas operation manual and it gives all the info on all the tapers, degrees,moa, and all that stuff. i'm having trouble understanding it. my sister in law said she'd comeover this weekend and help me with it. any numbers over 20 i have trouble with because thats all the fingers and toes i have.

skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

Danny, first off you have to know morse code to do a morse taper.

ok here it goes ..-...=....-=....=--.-...==...=...-....=.-..-==...--.==.==...---=.--.=
you got that?

snoops friend[smilie=l:

[Linstrum]

The one thing you have to remember about Morse Tapers is that each one is slightly different, you can't use the same set-up to cut all of them. I wish that more machines would adopt the Jarno Taper System that is all the same. The Jarno Taper makes sense unlike the stupid but commonly used Morse Tapers. The Jarno is a much better taper and given by the formula TAPER LENGTH = TAPER NUMBER X 0.5 INCH. TAPER SMALL END = TAPER NUMBER X 0.10 INCH. TAPER LARGE END = TAPER NUMBER X 0.125 INCH. In other words the taper is composed of 1/2" 1/10" and 1/8" times the taper number. A Number 1 Jarno is 1/2" long, the small end is 1/10" in diameter, and the large end is 1/8" in diameter. Simple! I machine Jarnos on all my stuff that I make with self-holding tapers.


I used to know morse code 30 years ago when I got my Ham license, now all I remember are ... --- ... and - . ... - , which are "SOS" and "TEST". I used to know my call sign "KB6COS" but I haven't needed to give it out in International Morse Code for such a long time since they dropped the code requirement I forgot it.


rl927

[skimmerhead]

The one thing you have to remember about Morse Tapers is that each one is slightly different, you can't use the same set-up to cut all of them. I wish that more machines would adopt the Jarno Taper System that is all the same. The Jarno Taper makes sense unlike the stupid but commonly used Morse Tapers. The Jarno is a much better taper and given by the formula TAPER LENGTH = TAPER NUMBER X 0.5 INCH. TAPER SMALL END = TAPER NUMBER X 0.10 INCH. TAPER LARGE END = TAPER NUMBER X 0.125 INCH. In other words the taper is composed of 1/2" 1/10" and 1/8" times the taper number. A Number 1 Jarno is 1/2" long, the small end is 1/10" in diameter, and the large end is 1/8" in diameter. Simple! I machine Jarnos on all my stuff that I make with self-holding tapers.


I used to know morse code 30 years ago when I got my Ham license, now all I remember are ... --- ... and - . ... - , which are "SOS" and "TEST". I used to know my call sign "KB6COS" but I haven't needed to give it out in International Morse Code for such a long time since they dropped the code requirement I forgot it.


rl927
i sure hope pat knows what that message is because i have no clue. i hope it's not a bunch of profanity!

skimmerhead[smilie=f:

[skimmerhead]

i'm fixing to get a bigger lathe. my little atlas has been a fun learning tool and i like it alot. allthough i have a lot to learn yet, i feel i can handle a bigger machine. this week i'll be going look at a south bend nordic 15x63 , anything i should know about this particular model, pro's con's ? i have been interested in the 15x50, 15x54 leblonds and clausing's but they've been to far away to go look at. i called clausing and bought the degree scale for the taper attachment for 7bucks so thats gives me a start on making the taper attachment. i milled the fingers for the follow and steady rest and put some bearings on them. i made a drawbar for my collets and that works great, made a spindle thread protector. and finally put my axa tool post on. now that is a big difference from the old lantern tool post. i got a dtm-h65 threading tool with a t-10 insert and the thing i like the most is you use the bottom of the cutter, put it in reverse and cut threads from the sholder out. no more worry when having to thread close to chuck. i have quite a few ideas to keep my projects list full.

skimmerhead :bigsmyl2:

[deltaenterprizes]

Be careful threading in reverse with a chuck that threads on, it may come unscrewed!

[skimmerhead]

Be careful threading in reverse with a chuck that threads on, it may come unscrewed!

i'm going look at a logan 14x36 i don't think i'll be able to pass it up. if i get that one i'll sell my atlas and then get a bigger lathe, a man never has enough toys! :mrgreen:

skimmerhead

[deltaenterprizes]

Sounds like a decent size and Logans ae supposed to be nice machines. Parts are available but can be expensive. I think Buckshot has one.

[skimmerhead]

Sounds like a decent size and Logans ae supposed to be nice machines. Parts are available but can be expensive. I think Buckshot has one.

i spoke with the fella that own's it and he sent some photo's and the price is low, he wants it out of his garage. first i'm going look at a lathe and a mill this one man has that retired. so we'll see what happens.

skimmerhead

[PatMarlin]

Logans are good machines. Mine always amazes me. Look at the work Buckshot does. Check the ways for wear.

[skimmerhead]

Logans are good machines. Mine always amazes me. Look at the work Buckshot does. Check the ways for wear.

will check it out. the fella said the ways were good, and had a little backlash on the crossfeed and the compound feed but everything else is good. gonna bring my dial indicator and check a few things out. has it on power so i can test it, i'll bring a piece of 2" aquamet19 and see if i can make it say uncle. how's snoop doing? sure is good to have my computer back, i was ready to use it for target practice. they said the system was corupted! i thought it was only politician's that get corupted over here. if it goes out again it's gonna face the fireing squad.

skimmerhead :lovebooli

[JIMinPHX]

Be careful threading in reverse with a chuck that threads on, it may come unscrewed!

+1 on that in a big way. That is the whole reason why D-back chucks became industry standard. L-nose machines are OK too. Threaded on chucks are very dangerous in reverse unless you rig up some kind of retainer gizmo. Flying chucks can be lethal if they come off the spindle while in use.

Logans are good machines if they are in good condition. The spindle condition is #1. Ways are #2. The chuck is #3. The gearbox in #4. That's my personal opinion anyway.

Once you get into the bigger machines, dexterity & ease of use can suffer. I don't recommend going much above a 14 inch swing unless you have a reason to.

[PatMarlin]

Mines got a bunch of backlash in the carriage crank. I need to fix that someday. Maybe when I'm 80. I use my ears a lot in machining. I can always hear when some tool wear or something else starts happening on the CNC from across the room.

I listened to the headstock running in various speeds on these machines for one thing when checking em out. May want to take some bars stock with you and make a cut. Measure that. Jim's got a good method I'm sure.

Snoop has been a good dog lately. They've all been pretty good about staying on the reservation. I need to fence this place. I figured roughly 5000 feet of fence. Dang why wasn't I blessed with sons?

[skimmerhead]

Mines got a bunch of backlash in the carriage crank. I need to fix that someday. Maybe when I'm 80. I use my ears a lot in machining. I can always hear when some tool wear or something else starts happening on the CNC from across the room.

I listened to the headstock running in various speeds on these machines for one thing when checking em out. May want to take some bars stock with you and make a cut. Measure that. Jim's got a good method I'm sure.

Snoop has been a good dog lately. They've all been pretty good about staying on the reservation. I need to fence this place. I figured roughly 5000 feet of fence. Dang why wasn't I blessed with sons?

2" aquamet stainless ought to do it, you can allways adopt me! i have about a 1,000 post holes laying around i could let you have if you adopt me!

skimmerhead[smilie=w: