Primer Shortage?

[jonp]

I guess I havn't been paying attention but I went online today to try and buy a box of primers and they are all gone. Did I miss something?

[FISH4BUGS]

No shortage here. Over the last two years (since the LAST shortage) I have been building my inventory of powder, primers and components. I would like to think that I learned my lesson in the last shortage.
I had a lot of business in a City that was an hour away and commuted back and forth for a month. Each trip I stopped at a very large gun shop. They were limiting purchases to 1000 per day at retail prices....so 20 or so stops gave me 20,000 primers....on top of the 20,000 already in the closet.
What shortage?

[Hossfly]

We still have them here but at $50.00 per 1000 I ain’t buying any. At least not yet anyway.

[rockrat]

Primers are unobtainium around here. Almost, as I did see one brick of LP, but thats all I have seen in town

[rkrcpa]

I recently had need to box up my primers. I must say I was surprised how heavy those boxes were.

I'll survive the shortage just fine.

[jonp]

No shortage here. Over the last two years (since the LAST shortage) I have been building my inventory of powder, primers and components. I would like to think that I learned my lesson in the last shortage.
I had a lot of business in a City that was an hour away and commuted back and forth for a month. Each trip I stopped at a very large gun shop. They were limiting purchases to 1000 per day at retail prices....so 20 or so stops gave me 20,000 primers....on top of the 20,000 already in the closet.
What shortage?
I've got... a few and a few pounds of powder but was going to buy some SRF and load some rounds up tonight for practice tomorrow.

[Ickisrulz]

I guess I havn't been paying attention but I went online today to try and buy a box of primers and they are all gone. Did I miss something?

I think you must have missed not only a few threads here talking about the ammo/component shortages, but you also missed visiting the online and local sellers that are sold out and have been for months now. This started with the riots and Covid and will not end until 2024, at the earliest.

[FISH4BUGS]

I've got... a few and a few pounds of powder but was going to buy some SRF and load some rounds up tonight for practice tomorrow.

Just burned up 400 rounds of 9mm (H&G #331 over 4.5 gr WW231) in a subgun and 100 rounds of 44 magnum (H&G # 503 over 8.5 gr WW231).
What is this shortage you speak of?

[NyFirefighter357]

We still have them here but at $50.00 per 1000 I ain’t buying any. At least not yet anyway.

I just paid $59 + tax for the only brick of Federal Small Rifle Primers in the store

[gbrown]

Go over to Gunbroker and look at the prices they are paying. Insane! However, if you need it and have the money, I guess it is what it is.

[brewer12345]

I guess I havn't been paying attention but I went online today to try and buy a box of primers and they are all gone. Did I miss something?

Yes. There has been a run on ammo, components, etc. Primers in particular are very hard to find and expensive or old stock that has been forgotten about. Bullets are becoming scarce (which is no biggie to us). Powder is intermittently available. As of today, it looks to me like the panic has kicked up a notch. Guessing this will go on for some time. If you need primers, get looking right away.

[tarbe]

I've sold 30,000 primers to guys who did not plan ahead, over the past month.

Still have over 100k, but not selling any more!

[Idaho45guy]

I live in an area that is mostly rural with a ton of shooters and reloaders. I haven't seen small pistol primers on the shelf since March. 9mm ammo and bullets disappeared about the same time. I happened to be in my LGS about a month ago when a shipment of 9mm range ammo and .223 rifle ammo came in. I bought five boxes of .223 and 2 boxes of 9mm. That was all that was allowed. It was all gone within a half hour with people running into the store when friends texted them it was available.

Things are only going to get worse.

I haven't done any pistol shooting all summer, just waiting to see how the election went. Now that it looks like Biden is in, you can forget ever finding ammo or components for years.

And that is assuming he doesn't impose a ridiculous tax on ammo, or restrict online sales of ammo and components, or limits the personal amount of ammo and components people can have.

[rbuck351]

There is an auction house in Kalispell that does online auctions. They have one lot of lg rifle primers, 5000 win and 4000 Rem. Current bid is $970 plus $145 commission and still 2 days to go. Glad I don't need any.

[abunaitoo]

No primers, powder, .22 ammo, 9mm ammo, .223 ammo, here.
The state gooberment is really happy about it.

[jonp]

I guess the point was made several years ago. If you cant buy ammo or components to make it you don't need to ban guns

[Shawlerbrook]

Shortage of anything shooting in general. Began with Covid and an upcoming election and the election results have put it on warp speed.

[bedbugbilly]

I caught the tail end of the remaining supply when I placed an order with Grafs back at the beginning of May. Both powders and primers were getting short at that time - I looked at what they had on a Sunday and when I got ready to place my order on Monday morning, it was surprising how much had been marked "out of stock" just overnight. I was able to get the powders I needed but had to take an 8lb jug of BE and H335 - all I wanted was about 3 pounds of each but was glad I cold get what I did - at least I have it sitting on the shelf. At that time, I was able to get a couple K of Large Pistol primers a K of Small rifle, 2K of Large Rifle and 1K of Sjptgun Primers - but NO Small Pistol Primers - the had already become extinct. The same as #10 and #11 percussion caps - they were out completely like everyone else. I checked with a powder supplier I knew from many years ago and fortunately was able to get percussion caps from them so I stocked up while I had the chance.

I think we are all wondering what the future holds now. Just the number firearms sold in October tells us that folks are wary and with the Covid crisis and plants being closed for that, shortages of ammo and components looks like it will be the norm for a while.

Thank God I still have my flintlocks!

[tommag]

Only $899/case, what a bargain!
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/883757489

[Cosmic_Charlie]

When demand goes up this high it does not take long to empty the supply chain. My lgs is looking pretty beleaguered lately. I worry that with so much out of stock they will be forced to reduce hours. And the ripple effects are yet to be recognized. Hard to sell presses etc. when there is nothing to run through them.

[35isit]

Primers are like Unicorn droppings around here. I stop in a LGS near me every day. 9mm and .223 lasts hours when it does come in. Watched him unpack about 6 or 7 thousand LP primers. They sold within 15 minutes. He occasionally gets some through estates or friends. I buy what I see and can afford.

[RogerDat]

There was a panic from Covid when many seemed to think we could reach a breakdown of society. I know gun shops emptied their shelves and a buddy sold a $150 shotgun for $250 because the supply in stores was exhausted.

You might try ammoseek web site. If you lurk there and update your search you may get lucky and catch something back in stock before it is all gone. During the powder shortage I have had them sell out of what I had in my cart, apparently they only reduce available stock to buy as it is paid for others bought what I had available to put in cart before I got through checkout. Learned my lesson, have an account so you can login in and payment info is already there, I took too long to enter credit card info that time.

Manufacturing is set to be able to meet regular demand with a small amount in the pipeline. Inventory made and sitting in a warehouse is capital invested and not making a return until it is sold so warehouse full of primers is a bunch of money not making money. So all it takes to create a perceived shortage is for demand to outstrip the available supply. The manufacturing capacity isn't diminished, just all the primers being made are snatched up and on some reloader or speculators shelf instead of on a store shelf. The available supply will normalize when that demand gets satisfied.

If I could lurk on web sites to buy primers for $52 and sell for $150 it would certainly have a lot of appeal. Especially if I was retired or laid off during corona.

The corona virus pandemic and fears of deteriorating society was the original driver, elections can prompt some increase also but not generally beyond available supply. Both at same time with the added push of president promoting the idea that the left is going to be rioting everywhere and threatening the suburbs is enough to push things past the available supply but only for awhile. There is a limit to how many people will spend $150 on a 1000 primers. There is not a limit on how many primers can be made, just on how rapidly they can be produced and on shelves.

I'm waiting for delivery of 4# jug of Bullseye powder, it seems unlike last panic powder is getting hit but not as much, There was still pistol and some rifle powders available when I bought the BE. Seems the powders used for 308 and 223/5.56 were getting hammered. Possibly many people have already bought it cheap and stacked it deep since that last shortage but didn't do as much for primers?

I also think there are more folks shooting in pistol competition that burns through ammo so they learned you can't practice if you have no ammo making components and stocked up.

[RogerDat]

I should point out this shortage thing is sort of hit or miss. For example one can't seem to find 9mm bullets but 38 are still available. The auto loader stuff for pistol is short the revolver less so.

I do think a lot of the shortage in primers by now is driven by people snatching up available supply to resell. Like the Walmart zombies did for 22 rim fire. If you have an inside bit of information on when an order is coming in, or know someone in the retail outlets you can use that to a great financial advantage..... as long as the market run lasts. Eventually they will be selling their surplus at gun shows for the "regular" price, but have made a rather significant profit in the meantime.

I was in Walmart late at night and they had just stocked 22's I bought a nice big box just to supplement my Y2K stash :-) for around $25 and saw the same boxes that weekend at gun show for $70 on a table of assorted brands and size boxes. The supply was there, just in that guys inventory instead of in the retail outlets he was getting his supply from.

[farmbif]

well turns out its not just any old primer shortage what we are in is being called the greatest primer shortage of all time. here is a little info on it from people who know what they are talking about

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/

[kerplode]

Did I miss something?

lol! The last 9 months, apparently...'Rona, riots, and elections happened.

Primers are nowhere, and loaded ammo is nearly as scarce. If you find anything it's $$$.

Seriously, though...this has been happening regularly since the mid 90's...Shoulda been stocking up over the last couple years when we were awash in cheap components and loaded ammo.

[BamaNapper]

I see 9mm ammo online for $0.65/rd right now (AmmoMart). Bargain price last fall was typically about $0.20/rd. If folks are paying 45 cents more per round, and IF you're willing to ignore the rules and sell to your neighbors at near that price, 15 cents for a primer is still palatable. You' even be ahead of the game it they were $300 a brick. Yes, it's extortion. But it's still the cheapest option.

NO, I am not even considering selling my reloads. Legal problems would cost me my job and my primer stash is for my own shooting.

[Idaho45guy]

Also, it is entirely regional as evidenced by folks posting completely different experiences in different regions.

Locally, where there are lots of shooters and firearm enthusiasts, there was never a shortage of firearms. I can drive into town right now and walk out with either a Sig P365 or Springfield Armory Hellcat, the two hottest-selling CCW weapons in the country. Seems most everyone around here had all the guns they wanted.

But, certain Glock models are unobtanium. I would love a new Gen 5 G23, but those are nowhere to be found for reasonable prices anywhere.

Ammo and reloading components are wiped out and have been for months, but powder seems to be available.

[JoeJames]

I ordered a bag of 32 S&W Long Starline brass through my local gun shop yesterday. No problem; not sought after. But he said other brass was hard to get. Sometimes it pays to stick to cartridges developed before 1909 or so; 9mm being an exception to that rule.

[BamaNapper]

An LGS and machine shop owner here mentioned last spring that brass was going to get more expensive and harder to get. Not particular calibers, but the brass to make the cases. I believe it was due to a drop in copper production. Since I have all the brass I'll need for a decade or two I was only listening with one ear and didn't file away the details.

[imashooter2]

I guess I havn't been paying attention but I went online today to try and buy a box of primers and they are all gone. Did I miss something?

Did you miss something? Covid, riots, a presidential election and threats of more riots. Yeah, you missed something.

[leadeye]

I figure this too shall pass, but it's going to be a while.

[snowwolfe]

This current shortage is a weird one. I didn’t have a supply of 9mm jacketed bullets on hand and only 900 rounds of ammo. Started looking for bullets and came up empty everywhere. Started adding my email to be notified if any came back in stock. Twice this month got the email so placed an order. Most recent notification was today from Midway for Hornady XTP 124 gr bullets. Snagged 20 boxes so that will keep me for a year or two.

[10-x]

Packing for a move. Looking in a box in shop and about fell out. Forgot had all these goodies! Due to nerve damage in both arms/ hands gave all presses, dies ECT to Son. May have to buy a Dillon since its less work. Have to get bottom joint in left thumb replaced and left knee , all next year when I get in new digs.

[Hossfly]

Well what did you find in the box?

[brewer12345]

Looks like even molds are largely out of stock. Was looking at a few lee molds at Titan and everything I was interested in was out of stock.

[megasupermagnum]

Looks like even molds are largely out of stock. Was looking at a few lee molds at Titan and everything I was interested in was out of stock.

I've noticed a lot of Lee stuff is out of stock. My guess is they got hit by problems with supplies like most manufacturers did. There was a time at my company that we were genuinely concerned we would not be able to buy ear plugs, which are required due to the loud machinery. All it would take is a lack of screws to shut down all machines making bullet molds at Lee. I'm not saying that there isn't a buying spree on casting stuff, but I'm thinking a disruption to manufacturing a more logical reason.

[Battis]

I have a Tap O Cap to make percussion caps out of beer cans. Great idea. Maybe someone will come up with a similar idea to make primers. I know, not likely...
What about repriming primers?
I have a 7mm pinfire revolver and a box of very old ammo. Interesting how the pinfire ammo works.

[dtknowles]

I have a Tap O Cap to make percussion caps out of beer cans. Great idea. Maybe someone will come up with a similar idea to make primers. I know, not likely...
What about repriming primers?
I have a 7mm pinfire revolver and a box of very old ammo. Interesting how the pinfire ammo works.

dude, the internet is your friend. Have you even done a search. I have books that tell the story but i am sure the internet could inform you.

I am certain you can reload that pinfire ammo but you might need percussion caps. Don't loose the pins.

Tim

[EDG]

Currently the ammo companies can make more money selling ammo than primers so they keep all their primer production for ammunition.

[Battis]

dude, the internet is your friend. Have you even done a search. I have books that tell the story but i am sure the internet could inform you.
dude, what story might you be talking about
Oh yeah, add the ? to the end of my question.
dude? Like, really?

[Froogal]

Currently the ammo companies can make more money selling ammo than primers so they keep all their primer production for ammunition.

If that is true, then where is that ammo?

[la5676]

If that is true, then where is that ammo?

Google is your friend

https://gunandsurvival.com/2020/11/12/report-vista-outdoors-ammunition-backlog-worth-more-than-1b/

The gist of it is that Vista has a 1Billion dollar backlog for ammunition. They believe it will be a year before they are caught up. If that is true, then reloaders are in for a rough patch, for sure, as powder, primer and projectile capacity wlll be going to factory loaded ammo.

[MUSTANG]

I have a Tap O Cap to make percussion caps out of beer cans. Great idea. Maybe someone will come up with a similar idea to make primers. I know, not likely...
What about repriming primers?
I have a 7mm pinfire revolver and a box of very old ammo. Interesting how the pinfire ammo works.


Battis:

May I suggest you and others look on this Site for threads dealing with "Reloading Primers". A recent thread reports the use of Toy Caps as the Primer charge. See: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?410816-Reloading-primers-with-toy-caps-results

Perhaps the availability of Toy Caps will take a hit; but their production is outside of the Ammo Chain; and the numbers of centerfire reloaders is a very small Fraction of the Shooting Public; so it may be a methodology for many reloads to weather the Primer Shortage if they choose to do so. I ordered numerous rolls of "Toy Caps" on line a few weeks ago after reading this article (Which I think the write up is superb); I ordered more yesterday online. Amazon seems to have DROPPED all Toy Roll Caps from their offerings now - but not the cap guns. As they used to say in Bootcamp and follow on training - a recruit/student never runs out of ammo as long as they can say BANG_BANG_BANG.

[RogerDat]

Seems to me in a way once again we are seeing the downside of just in time delivery model. It is efficient for companies to have only the capacity required to meet demand over time and to keep inventory at levels that just meet current demand.

When we get repeated spikes in demand the limited inventory is gone and the limited capacity that is able to keep up over the long haul can't ramp up to meet sudden high demand. Business is in most cases foolish to invest in equipment that is not fully utilized or materials that sit around as finished inventory. Be like buying a 1 ton truck to haul a 1/2 ton load. However when repeated spikes in demand take place inventory is exhausted, shortages lead to hoarding, or scalper purchases that make it difficult for production to catch up. Throw in even a modest reduction in capacity such as powder valley outlined and you have the 2020 primer shortage.

The inventory can absorb a single run, maybe even two, but there have been at least two or three in a row and they have gone on for months. Not all that different than the great powder shortage. Obama election, followed by Sandy Hook, followed by Congress considering gun regulation. Toss in ADI Powder that supplies much of the powder sold under US company labels had a fire in their pistol powder line..... No one could get pistol powder reliably until ADI came back on line. They didn't make every variety but they made enough that their lack of production created the shortage that creates runs on ALL of the pistol powders.

I am surprised no S&B action, I recall them being around at Cabela's even when CCI etc. were scarce.

People will learn, I think half the reason no real powder shortage now is everyone who stocked up after the powder shortage. They have powder, some just forgot to buy primers at the same time.

Lesson here, look at shooting habits and translate that into required amount of balanced inventory of lead/bullets, powder, and primers to carry you through a reasonable amount of time. Maintain that level by replacing as used.

[RogerDat]

I do wonder if the gun show this coming weekend will take place and if there will be people selling primers for really high prices. That was the case with .22 rim fire, powder, and of course AP 5.56 ammo when it got banned. Saw that AP ammo hitting buck a round. With .22 going for 3x price at Walmart when it was in stock.

[Froogal]

Seems to me in a way once again we are seeing the downside of just in time delivery model. It is efficient for companies to have only the capacity required to meet demand over time and to keep inventory at levels that just meet current demand.

When we get repeated spikes in demand the limited inventory is gone and the limited capacity that is able to keep up over the long haul can't ramp up to meet sudden high demand. Business is in most cases foolish to invest in equipment that is not fully utilized or materials that sit around as finished inventory. Be like buying a 1 ton truck to haul a 1/2 ton load. However when repeated spikes in demand take place inventory is exhausted, shortages lead to hoarding, or scalper purchases that make it difficult for production to catch up. Throw in even a modest reduction in capacity such as powder valley outlined and you have the 2020 primer shortage.

The inventory can absorb a single run, maybe even two, but there have been at least two or three in a row and they have gone on for months. Not all that different than the great powder shortage. Obama election, followed by Sandy Hook, followed by Congress considering gun regulation. Toss in ADI Powder that supplies much of the powder sold under US company labels had a fire in their pistol powder line..... No one could get pistol powder reliably until ADI came back on line. They didn't make every variety but they made enough that their lack of production created the shortage that creates runs on ALL of the pistol powders.

I am surprised no S&B action, I recall them being around at Cabela's even when CCI etc. were scarce.

People will learn, I think half the reason no real powder shortage now is everyone who stocked up after the powder shortage. They have powder, some just forgot to buy primers at the same time.

Lesson here, look at shooting habits and translate that into required amount of balanced inventory of lead/bullets, powder, and primers to carry you through a reasonable amount of time. Maintain that level by replacing as used.

I have also had negative thoughts about that "just in time" delivery thing. At the factory where I used to work, many times we had to go into overtime to hopefully meet a customers needs because suddenly that customers demands were greater than his supply.

[dtknowles]

Seems to me in a way once again we are seeing the downside of just in time delivery model. It is efficient for companies to have only the capacity required to meet demand over time and to keep inventory at levels that just meet current demand.

When we get repeated spikes in demand the limited inventory is gone and the limited capacity that is able to keep up over the long haul can't ramp up to meet sudden high demand. Business is in most cases foolish to invest in equipment that is not fully utilized or materials that sit around as finished inventory. Be like buying a 1 ton truck to haul a 1/2 ton load. However when repeated spikes in demand take place inventory is exhausted, shortages lead to hoarding, or scalper purchases that make it difficult for production to catch up. Throw in even a modest reduction in capacity such as powder valley outlined and you have the 2020 primer shortage.

The inventory can absorb a single run, maybe even two, but there have been at least two or three in a row and they have gone on for months. Not all that different than the great powder shortage. Obama election, followed by Sandy Hook, followed by Congress considering gun regulation. Toss in ADI Powder that supplies much of the powder sold under US company labels had a fire in their pistol powder line..... No one could get pistol powder reliably until ADI came back on line. They didn't make every variety but they made enough that their lack of production created the shortage that creates runs on ALL of the pistol powders.

I am surprised no S&B action, I recall them being around at Cabela's even when CCI etc. were scarce.

People will learn, I think half the reason no real powder shortage now is everyone who stocked up after the powder shortage. They have powder, some just forgot to buy primers at the same time.

Lesson here, look at shooting habits and translate that into required amount of balanced inventory of lead/bullets, powder, and primers to carry you through a reasonable amount of time. Maintain that level by replacing as used.

Around here balanced inventory translates as a lifetime supply.

Tim

[quilbilly]

With the shortage, I decided to take an inventory of just how many primers are in my possession. I couldn't believe how many I found or when I got them. Nice! In my business travels to sporting goods stores I noticed that around here no one has gun oil of any kind - Hoppe's, Remoil, or any other - but plenty of gun cleaning supplies. Curious.

[bayjoe]

Auction on Gun Broker for 1000 small pistol primers is at $1000.00 with 23 hours left to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flyer1]

A dollar a primer....insane.

[bayjoe]

Up to $1232.50

[Four-Sixty]

Up to $1232.50

The thumbnail for the auction shows 10 boxes, while the description say only 1 box. It looks like someone will be upset!

Just think if a year ago you bought a semi full of primers at a bulk rate. You'd be cashing in now.

[bayjoe]

GunBroker let someone off the hook. Price is back down to $1025.00

[reddog81]

Factories using just in time inventory doesn’t mean a thing if you do your part and buy enough in advance to keep shooting. I don’t understand how someone can complain about factories using JIT models if they are doing the same thing and only buying the primers they plan on using in the near future.

Plan and buy accordingly then blips in the supply chain won’t matter.

[Brass&Lead]

Buy it cheap and stack it deep!

[JoeJames]

Seems to me in a way once again we are seeing the downside of just in time delivery model. It is efficient for companies to have only the capacity required to meet demand over time and to keep inventory at levels that just meet current demand.

When we get repeated spikes in demand the limited inventory is gone and the limited capacity that is able to keep up over the long haul can't ramp up to meet sudden high demand. Business is in most cases foolish to invest in equipment that is not fully utilized or materials that sit around as finished inventory. Be like buying a 1 ton truck to haul a 1/2 ton load. However when repeated spikes in demand take place inventory is exhausted, shortages lead to hoarding, or scalper purchases that make it difficult for production to catch up. Throw in even a modest reduction in capacity such as powder valley outlined and you have the 2020 primer shortage.

The inventory can absorb a single run, maybe even two, but there have been at least two or three in a row and they have gone on for months. Not all that different than the great powder shortage. Obama election, followed by Sandy Hook, followed by Congress considering gun regulation. Toss in ADI Powder that supplies much of the powder sold under US company labels had a fire in their pistol powder line..... No one could get pistol powder reliably until ADI came back on line. They didn't make every variety but they made enough that their lack of production created the shortage that creates runs on ALL of the pistol powders.

I am surprised no S&B action, I recall them being around at Cabela's even when CCI etc. were scarce.

People will learn, I think half the reason no real powder shortage now is everyone who stocked up after the powder shortage. They have powder, some just forgot to buy primers at the same time.

Lesson here, look at shooting habits and translate that into required amount of balanced inventory of lead/bullets, powder, and primers to carry you through a reasonable amount of time. Maintain that level by replacing as used.Excellent point on balanced inventory. Say you are primarily loading 38 Special wadcutters; if casting the boolits are not that big a deal if you have access to wheel weights, etc., and with a straight wall case, the cases can be reused many, many times; so the balance problem comes down to powder and primers. 7000 grains to a pound; so in a pert near standard WC 38 Special load of 3 grains of Bullseye pistol powder, you can look at (hopefully) 2,333 powder charges out of a pound of Bullseye. Ok, did you buy 2 and a third (2,333 count) bricks of small pistol primers at the same time? If not you are plumb out of balance at the git-go.

[Froogal]

Excellent point on balanced inventory. Say you are primarily loading 38 Special wadcutters; if casting the boolits are not that big a deal if you have access to wheel weights, etc., and with a straight wall case, the cases can be reused many, many times; so the balance problem comes down to powder and primers. 7000 grains to a pound; so in a pert near standard WC 38 Special load of 3 grains of Bullseye pistol powder, you can look at (hopefully) 2,333 powder charges out of a pound of Bullseye. Ok, did you buy 2 and a third (2,333 count) bricks of small pistol primers at the same time? If not you are plumb out of balance at the git-go.

Sorry, but this time around, it does not work that way. About 10 months ago I bought the powder I will need for the next 2 years, and tried to buy primers at the same time, but the primers were already out of stock, and shortly after, my favorite powder was also out of stock.

[brstevns]

It all comes down to GREED!

[snowwolfe]

It all comes down to GREED!

How so?

[Blanket]

no sympathy from me, if folks weren't smart enough to prepare after the last 2 or three shortages they get what they get

[Hossfly]

As long as I stay with one shot one kill I’ve got enough to last. Barring fire or theft, and blasting paper. I think I’ll hide some in different areas of the Ponderosa.

[brstevns]

no sympathy from me, if folks weren't smart enough to prepare after the last 2 or three shortages they get what they get

There you go! There are many that cannot afford to hoard powder, primers, bullets. They have bills to pay, mouths to feed, insurance bills, etc. They hope they can find what they need when they can afford it. More power to those that always buy more than they will ever use or need. It has been that way since the beginning of time.

[Blanket]

that is funny, not hoarding at all. Raised a family as well. bought a sleeve of primers or a box of bullets everytime I went to the LGS. Maybe you should have skipped over a night out and prepared

[Brass&Lead]

The money argument requires a lifestyle change to overcome. Apply the Use it Up, Wear it Out, Make it Do, or Do Without. That will free up money so that when the deals come around, they can then take advantage of them. Once they start doing that the savings are “reinvested” in more deals saving more and building their stock. Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

[farmbif]

ive yet to see one of those hoarder shows where the people are tripping over cases of primers or other reloading supplies. I guess its all the closet hoarders that have all the primers

[Conditor22]

Primers are now becoming available but are hard to find. The last report of stores selling primers was in S Dakota.

Sportsmans warehouse still occasionally get LRP and LRMP, have yet to see SRP or SPP in my part of the country

[Froogal]

There you go! There are many that cannot afford to hoard powder, primers, bullets. They have bills to pay, mouths to feed, insurance bills, etc. They hope they can find what they need when they can afford it. More power to those that always buy more than they will ever use or need. It has been that way since the beginning of time.

Thank You!! You are definitely in touch with reality, just like MOST of us, and as for that "the last 2 or 3 shortages" thing, THAT guy is NOT in touch with reality.

[Froogal]

that is funny, not hoarding at all. Raised a family as well. bought a sleeve of primers or a box of bullets everytime I went to the LGS. Maybe you should have skipped over a night out and prepared

I don't know what world you are living in, but certainly it is not the same world as the rest of us live in. Maybe yours is a fantasy world?

[brstevns]

I don't know what world you are living in, but certainly it is not the same world as the rest of us live in. Maybe yours is a fantasy world?
Thanks to those that understand what I was trying to say.
Need to ask yourself, how many rounds do I fire a year. I believe most will say less than 1000 rounds a year, not counting rimfire.

[brstevns]

that is funny, not hoarding at all. Raised a family as well. bought a sleeve of primers or a box of bullets everytime I went to the LGS. Maybe you should have skipped over a night out and prepared
What's a night out? Something I never had!

[rototerrier]

Back when primers were stacked high on the shelves at $30 a brick, 1200 bucks could have bought you 40k primers. That was less than a decent AR or 2 mid range rifles. But I never saw anyone stocking up, besides myself and a few others. And that was at 30...I bought a crap ton of those cabela's s&b for 18 a brick. And even those weren't selling out.

I certainly feel for the new reloaders, but for everyone else, not so much.

If you've been casting and loading for at least 4 years, you should have tons of lead and stacks of primers and it would have all been on the cheap

[Idaho45guy]

There you go! There are many that cannot afford to hoard powder, primers, bullets. They have bills to pay, mouths to feed, insurance bills, etc. They hope they can find what they need when they can afford it. More power to those that always buy more than they will ever use or need. It has been that way since the beginning of time.

I was married for twenty years and was never more than a casual shooter and certainly didn't reload. I didn't get into reloading until after my divorce in 2013, and certainly didn't have any spare change until a couple of years ago and started trying to stock up. I started grabbing the extra box of bullets, or tray of primers, or can of powder last Fall.

I was starting to feel good about what I had in January, then everything suddenly dried up.

I see people online who like to belittle others for not having 100k primers and call them names and boast about their stockpile and it is really sad. Not everyone has been reloading for decades and slowly building up stock, nor had the money to purchase in bulk the last couple of years.

[brstevns]

Sometimes things happen and Money is just not there. Reloading supplies become a luxury, the necessities of life come first.
Enough said.

[Froogal]

I was married for twenty years and was never more than a casual shooter and certainly didn't reload. I didn't get into reloading until after my divorce in 2013, and certainly didn't have any spare change until a couple of years ago and started trying to stock up. I started grabbing the extra box of bullets, or tray of primers, or can of powder last Fall.

I was starting to feel good about what I had in January, then everything suddenly dried up.

I see people online who like to belittle others for not having 100k primers and call them names and boast about their stockpile and it is really sad. Not everyone has been reloading for decades and slowly building up stock, nor had the money to purchase in bulk the last couple of years.

BINGO!! You said a mouthful right there. I've been doing this for a few years now and have never experienced ANY kind of shortage until now.

[JoeJames]

Bad thing is there are some folks who have just now started getting interested in reloading. Not everyone has been reloading like a lot of us for 30 or 40 years. And at a time when we need to encourage them, if for no other reason than potential voters - wham! - no components.

[dverna]

Thanks to those that understand what I was trying to say.
Need to ask yourself, how many rounds do I fire a year. I believe most will say less than 1000 rounds a year, not counting rimfire.

You are so wrong. I doubt fewer than 2% of the members here shoot less than 1000 rounds/yr. If you shoot that little, and do not have a 5 years supply of components, you have made poor choices for many months. 5000 primers during normal times were $150.

All you can do now is learn from it. You could be proactive and put away $10/wk for the next six months. That will give you $260 to invest in components when (if) things get back to "normal". I would suggest buying powder now if you have some extra funds as it is still available at decent prices. Or follow your current strategy and wait for it to be scare and pricey and complain about it then.

[Blanket]

good luck with your reality search for components plenty of primers on gunbroker

[brstevns]

You are so wrong. I doubt fewer than 2% of the members here shoot less than 1000 rounds/yr. If you shoot that little, and do not have a 5 years supply of components, you have made poor choices for many months. 5000 primers during normal times were $150.

All you can do now is learn from it. You could be proactive and put away $10/wk for the next six months. That will give you $260 to invest in components when (if) things get back to "normal". I would suggest buying powder now if you have some extra funds as it is still available at decent prices. Or follow your current strategy and wait for it to be scare and pricey and complain about it then.

You are just not understanding what I am saying. Not everyone can stop by the LGS or go to a Gunshow to stock up.
I am not complaining. I am just trying to say many people do not have the funds to even buy those deals when they see them.
Good to those that can.
It is their Money and they can do with it as they please. Just do not come down so hard on people that are on small incomes or SS and already or stretching their funds just to survive. They do not need to hear they should have done this or that just because you have a stockpile of loading supplies and they do not. That 150.00 may not mean much to you but to them it might as well be 1500.00

[LAH]

I began loading in 1973. Had to scrape for a 100 primers. A pound of powder for rifle & one for pistol was about all that was here. I understand not being able to purchase a stock of stuff to last through these shortages & feel for you guys in that boat. I kept myself from gun purchases & spent the extra on powder & primers. Don't have many guns but what I have I can shoot & shoot plenty over the next 5 or 7 years. That's what worked for me. Maybe things will settle down & you guys can get a few things before long or at least I hope so.

[WheelgunConvert]

End game is adapt to your situation. Practice perfect. Every shot.

Unless you have a suggestion for improvement, stop crapping on your allies. It’s rude and this place is above that petty attitude.

Keep your mask handy and your socks dry.

[brstevns]

End game is adapt to your situation. Practice perfect. Every shot.

Unless you have a suggestion for improvement, stop crapping on your allies. It’s rude and this place is above that petty attitude.

Keep your mask handy and your socks dry.

Yes all friends here, just wanted to speak up for those that are finding it hard in these strange times.

[megasupermagnum]

I was married for twenty years and was never more than a casual shooter and certainly didn't reload. I didn't get into reloading until after my divorce in 2013, and certainly didn't have any spare change until a couple of years ago and started trying to stock up. I started grabbing the extra box of bullets, or tray of primers, or can of powder last Fall.

I was starting to feel good about what I had in January, then everything suddenly dried up.

I see people online who like to belittle others for not having 100k primers and call them names and boast about their stockpile and it is really sad. Not everyone has been reloading for decades and slowly building up stock, nor had the money to purchase in bulk the last couple of years.

While I will not talk down to someone, or brag about my own supplies, I feel less bad about the current situation than ever before. We all knew it was coming. It may have well been advertised with neon lights. No, not everyone has a crazy stockpile. If you don't , all you can do is make due with what you have. FYI for those that seem surprised by this shortage, it will happen in 2024 too. There should be some time in there 2022-2023 where there will be availability. Plan ahead, or don't, but don't come onto a forum after a year like this and say, "did I miss something?" Reloading supplies, at least in my lifetime, have never been a steady availability, and never will be.

[Idaho45guy]

I stopped by my FFL's house/shop which is a 30-mile round trip, to pick up a new pistol. I walked in and he had plenty of large rifle and large pistol primers, no powder, and some pistol and rifle ammo.

I had just done a count and I was a little light on large pistol primers to feed my 10mm and .45 Colt, so I grabbed a case of CCI primers. $70! Ouch! I put them back, then thought about it and reasoned that it was only $35 more than what I normally spend, and the peace of mind of having an extra 1000 primers for pistols I don't shoot all that often was worth it. So I bought them. Between the transfer fee, tax on the new gun, an AR-10 magazine, case of primers, plus a couple of boxes of ammo, I walked out of there for just under $200. Ouch.

[dtknowles]

I was married for twenty years and was never more than a casual shooter and certainly didn't reload. I didn't get into reloading until after my divorce in 2013, and certainly didn't have any spare change until a couple of years ago and started trying to stock up. I started grabbing the extra box of bullets, or tray of primers, or can of powder last Fall.

I was starting to feel good about what I had in January, then everything suddenly dried up.

I see people online who like to belittle others for not having 100k primers and call them names and boast about their stockpile and it is really sad. Not everyone has been reloading for decades and slowly building up stock, nor had the money to purchase in bulk the last couple of years.

The braggarts are not nice people. Rubbing it in like bullies.

Tim

[dtknowles]

If I was smarter I would have known that primers were a better investment than gold and silver but selling them is hard with haz mat. I could have bought a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of primers. It seems like I could have made a million in profit. Worth a haz mat license. I have ammo and primers, brass and powder that I might never use but it is not easy to sell and I don't even know if it is smart to sell now. I can sell gold with a couple mouse click but ammo stuff, shipping is a hassle. I have molds, pots, sizers and lead but why would I sell bullets?

I know I am lucky and I know people who live paycheck to paycheck and worse are living off their credit cards to pay the bills. Think they could put away a stash of primers and powder is silly. Borrow money to buy primers?

Tim

[reddog81]

If I was smarter I would have known that primers were a better investment than gold and silver but selling them is hard with haz mat. I could have bought a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of primers. It seems like I could have made a million in profit.

On the other hand you could have been stuck with a bunch 2nd hand components that nobody wants. Just one year ago manufacturers were running rebates and retailers were running sales because nobody was buying reloading supplies. It's impossible to know what the future holds. If Covid hadn't hit primers would probably still be possible to find.

[megasupermagnum]

It's impossible to know what the future holds. If Covid hadn't hit primers would probably still be possible to find.


Not a chance. This shortage is no mystery. It will happen again in 4 more years too. It is very easy to predict.

[dtknowles]

Not a chance. This shortage is no mystery. It will happen again in 4 more years too. It is very easy to predict.

Why will there be a shortage in 2024.

[rockrat]

Election year

[Friends call me Pac]

If you didn't have the money to buy components over the last two years I ask this. Over the last two years how many times a month did you eat out for lunch and supper? If you ate out at least once a month how much did you spend? How much would you have saved if you had eaten at home? Would whatever you spent eating out opposed to staying home per month be enough to purchase a brick of 22's, a pound of powder or 500 primers? If you didn't save enough to buy one of these things how many months would it take?

[reddog81]

Not a chance. This shortage is no mystery. It will happen again in 4 more years too. It is very easy to predict.

Last time around(2013-2014) primers weren't too hard to find. I could call around and find some anytime I tried. You couldn't be picky about brand and might have to buy magnum primers, but they were easy to find. Handgun powder on the other hand was impossible to get and AR's were going for $1,500.

[dtknowles]

If you didn't have the money to buy components over the last two years I ask this. Over the last two years how many times a month did you eat out for lunch and supper? If you ate out at least once a month how much did you spend? How much would you have saved if you had eaten at home? Would whatever you spent eating out opposed to staying home per month be enough to purchase a brick of 22's, a pound of powder or 500 primers? If you didn't save enough to buy one of these things how many months would it take?

My first wife rarely went shooting with me and only as a favor to me. She did like to go out to eat at nice restaurants. Skipping eating out to save for primers would have been seriously selfish.

Tim

[rancher1913]

i doubt that we will have a component shortage in 2024 because this one will still be going on.

as to not eating out once a month to buy primers, well taking your wife out on a date is more important, if you eat out all the time I could understand your logic but once a month is really splurging and your spouse deserves it, guess you could cancel your car insurance, that would buy you a few primers but at what cost.

if somebody was going to starbucks every day and then complaining about not being able to stock up then I have no sympathy.

[brstevns]

I wish to apologize to anyone that I might have offended with my post . That was not my intentions, I know in my heart we are all good people. Take Care and Happy Thanksgiving to all

[rototerrier]

And if you smoke or drink...

Reminds me of when folks say they don't have time when in fact they simply choose to not make certain things a priority. If you watch tv you can rarely say you don't have time for something else. Very similar concepts with money.

[dverna]

I wish to apologize to anyone that I might have offended with my post . That was not my intentions, I know in my heart we are all good people. Take Care and Happy Thanksgiving to all

You have nothing to apologize for. Some of us have a dual whammy of Covid lockdown and crappy weather cabin fever....I am in that group. Sometimes we are less sensitive or understanding than we should be.

And we have different priorities and circumstances. And we tend to make assumptions without enough information.

[Winger Ed.]

I used to work with kids that had a $600 cell phone, and nothing short of $100 tennis shoes & $50 blue jeans would do.
Rather than anything used--- only a brand new $35,000. 'city truck' would be good enough for them.
Then couldn't figure out why they were always broke when something fun came along that cost a few bucks and they couldn't go.

These same guys never thought twice about going to the drive up window, spend $12. for some soggy bread, grease, and salt.
But $8-9. for a ribeye steak and a big baking potato was WAY too expensive.

And years back, someone said they couldn't join the NRA because it was too expensive. (back when it cost $35 a year.)
I told them it wasn't the money, it was their priorities. They said, "Huh"?
I told them, "Yeah. If it cost $35. to get yourself out of jail, do ya think you could come up with it"?

[MUSTANG]

Did a search on Primers this evening. Seems that if one goes to the North Side of Lake Erie; there are primers available in Canada:

https://www.bullseyenorth.com/reloading-primers

Cost is about $5.00 per 100 (converted from Canada Dollar to US Dollar).


also:

http://www.thebulletbarn.com/primers.html

[perotter]

My reloading/gun uncle worked a regular job in the '50s and '60s. Had the typical housewife, 5 kids, dog and mortgage. He was real big into guns and reloading. He tested every powder when it came out and also swaged bullets. He even had a chronograph back then when the local doctors couldn't afford them(there is a bit of back story to this).

His regular job kept the household going. To pay for the guns and reloading he works 2 Saturdays a month at a different job. Of course some people today are doing that now just for the household or live where there is no extra work to be found. But if the shoe fits, wear it.

[dtknowles]

My reloading/gun uncle worked a regular job in the '50s and '60s. Had the typical housewife, 5 kids, dog and mortgage. He was real big into guns and reloading. He tested every powder when it came out and also swaged bullets. He even had a chronograph back then when the local doctors couldn't afford them(there is a bit of back story to this).

His regular job kept the household going. To pay for the guns and reloading he works 2 Saturdays a month at a different job. Of course some people today are doing that now just for the household or live where there is no extra work to be found. But if the shoe fits, wear it.

For years after I got married, I paid for my hobbies with earnings outside my regular paycheck or from Christmas or Birthday gifts. After the kids were grown and my paycheck got a lot bigger only then did I spend "household" money on myself.

[Ford SD]

Did a search on Primers this evening. Seems that if one goes to the North Side of Lake Erie; there are primers available in Canada:

https://www.bullseyenorth.com/reloading-primers

Cost is about $5.00 per 100 (converted from Canada Dollar to US Dollar).


also:

http://www.thebulletbarn.com/primers.html

ya we have a few primers, but stuff is drying up

and You can not get stuff across the border .... either way

in the past, I have seen deals on your side.... all i can say is I wish

In A Canada Dollar 2 years ago primers were $50/1000 for standard primers cci/ win /fed .... match stuff more
now it is 55-60 where I have heard you were paying 22-25/1000 a year ago

So everything we buy is twice what you pay

[gnappi]

Egads, why people do or do not buy shooting stuff is no reason to call them anything.

Braggards, (I wouldn't call them that) serve a purpose, that being to "potentially" wake up slow learners, and slow to the draw coulda-shoulda-woulda types hopefully make it clear to others in similar situations to keep supplies on hand.

[Friends call me Pac]

If you are brand new at reloading I can sympathize. You have walked into a mess. But if you have been reloading for at least 2 years and you don't have any components I tried to give some advice of what you could have done. It is also advice for what you can prepare for when the components are once again available. Well I guess my advice didn't go over very well. When I left home in 1985 I had $8 in my pocket so I do know what it is to be poor. Probably is better to listen to someone else.

[MUSTANG]

Went to "Shop" early this morning. Wife wanted paper cup cake liners. After picking them up went to Cabellas and Murdochs.


Murdochs: Picked up the last 4 lbs of Winchester 748 that are located in the State of Montana. (Get it while it's there. I need to load 1000 .223's in next ,month or so.) Gun counter rep stated "We do not expect to see any primers from our distributer for 6 months to a year."

Cabella: Gun counter rep stated "We do not expect to see any primers from our distributer for at least 6 months."


Expect a dry year.

[dverna]

Mustang,

Those are ominous predictions. But they fit my guess at the mess we are facing.

I keep checking Gunbroker and see no let up in pricing.

There was a gentleman here who purchased 10k primers at $70/1000 a few weeks ago and it looks like he made a wise move. I just sold 1000 for $30 to my doctor as he had just bought a 9mm and had never loaded for pistols before so had no inventory.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If I was smarter I would have known that primers were a better investment than gold and silver but selling them is hard with haz mat. I could have bought a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of primers. It seems like I could have made a million in profit. Worth a haz mat license. I have ammo and primers, brass and powder that I might never use but it is not easy to sell and I don't even know if it is smart to sell now. I can sell gold with a couple mouse click but ammo stuff, shipping is a hassle. I have molds, pots, sizers and lead but why would I sell bullets?

I know I am lucky and I know people who live paycheck to paycheck and worse are living off their credit cards to pay the bills. Think they could put away a stash of primers and powder is silly. Borrow money to buy primers?

Tim


Why will there be a shortage in 2024.

Tim,
Maybe you know this, maybe you don't...or maybe you won't believe this.
BUT, now is the time to buy AR-15 guns, mags, ammo, components...if you want to invest in future returns.
prices haven't increased much ...YET ...and these are still available.

With hindsight, we can see why small pistol Primers and 9mm ammo is now scarce and high priced. There was really no warning for the urban riots that caused this buying frenzy.

Today, we know what political party will be in the White House in Feb 2021, "they" may also have control in the Senate. If that is the case (yeah, it's a 50-50 thing with the Senate), one of the first things they will do is try to reinstate the Assault weapons ban...It's in their platform for God's sake. And even if they are unsuccessful, it will incite a buying frenzy and prices will sky rocket...a repeat of 2014. I recall seeing a $400 plain jane AR-15 go for $2k, also back then, I was selling 223/556 brass for stupid high prices at the local gunshow.

[dtknowles]

Tim,
Maybe you know this, maybe you don't...or maybe you won't believe this.
BUT, now is the time to buy AR-15 guns, mags, ammo, components...if you want to invest in future returns.
prices haven't increased much ...YET ...and these are still available.

With hindsight, we can see why small pistol Primers and 9mm ammo is now scarce and high priced. There was really no warning for the urban riots that caused this buying frenzy.

Today, we know what political party will be in the White House in Feb 2021, "they" may also have control in the Senate. If that is the case (yeah, it's a 50-50 thing with the Senate), one of the first things they will do is try to reinstate the Assault weapons ban...It's in their platform for God's sake. And even if they are unsuccessful, it will incite a buying frenzy and prices will sky rocket...a repeat of 2014. I recall seeing a $400 plain jane AR-15 go for $2k, also back then, I was selling 223/556 brass for stupid high prices at the local gunshow.

Thanks for the heads up. I had not been checking prices. I bought my first and only AR after Trump won and they were going cheap. I would have expected prices to have risen. Buying a bunch of AR's to resell without an FFL is actually a crime. One or two or even 5 if spread over a few months might not draw much attention but if I went and bought a dozen in one go I would fear a visit from the Jack Boots.

Tim

[dverna]

Tim,
Maybe you know this, maybe you don't...or maybe you won't believe this.
BUT, now is the time to buy AR-15 guns, mags, ammo, components...if you want to invest in future returns.
prices haven't increased much ...YET ...and these are still available.

With hindsight, we can see why small pistol Primers and 9mm ammo is now scarce and high priced. There was really no warning for the urban riots that caused this buying frenzy.

Today, we know what political party will be in the White House in Feb 2021, "they" may also have control in the Senate. If that is the case (yeah, it's a 50-50 thing with the Senate), one of the first things they will do is try to reinstate the Assault weapons ban...It's in their platform for God's sake. And even if they are unsuccessful, it will incite a buying frenzy and prices will sky rocket...a repeat of 2014. I recall seeing a $400 plain jane AR-15 go for $2k, also back then, I was selling 223/556 brass for stupid high prices at the local gunshow.

Ding, Ding, Ding....we have a winner.

Which leads to whether to sell the ones I can let go of during the panic or "hope" they are classed under the NFA and wait for prices to go really nuts in a few years.

[Ickisrulz]

Thanks for the heads up. I had not been checking prices. I bought my first and only AR after Trump won and they were going cheap. I would have expected prices to have risen. Buying a bunch of AR's to resell without an FFL is actually a crime. One or two or even 5 if spread over a few months might not draw much attention but if I went and bought a dozen in one go I would fear a visit from the Jack Boots.

Tim

You could make transfers through a FFL and not run any risk.

[Ed K]

Went to my local shop to browse. Instead of walking out without the courtesy of spending something I spied a box of Federal large pistol @ $50 and given the current scenario splurged. Yeah I felt a little guilty overpaying but what's the downside risk $20? I suppose as long as we don't spend really stupid money on primers the reality for most shooters in the country is the price of 1000 rounds of factory 44mag or 45 Colt - ouch!

[dverna]

Went to my local shop to browse. Instead of walking out without the courtesy of spending something I spied a box of Federal large pistol @ $50 and given the current scenario splurged. Yeah I felt a little guilty overpaying but what's the downside risk $20? I suppose as long as we don't spend really stupid money on primers the reality for most shooters in the country is the price of 1000 rounds of factory 44mag or 45 Colt - ouch!

You should be happy you found them and the price is going to look cheap...real cheap...in a short time.

[Texas by God]

Buying guns from a dealer and then reselling them without an FFL face to face is still legal in Texas. I don't know about other countries.
I'm not talking about "Straw Purchases".
Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Four-Sixty]

So, if primers do show up in six months, how long is the pent up demand going to keep primers scare? I could image another half a year or so. I would not mind buying 10,000 primers at pre panic prices after they become available.

How many more are going to salt primers away. I'd bet a bunch!

[Idaho45guy]

Thanks for the heads up. I had not been checking prices. I bought my first and only AR after Trump won and they were going cheap. I would have expected prices to have risen. Buying a bunch of AR's to resell without an FFL is actually a crime. One or two or even 5 if spread over a few months might not draw much attention but if I went and bought a dozen in one go I would fear a visit from the Jack Boots.

Tim

I bought a spare AR before the 2016 election for $600. A couple of years later, I could buy the same AR for $500. Today, they are $800, if you can find one. I've shot it once.

In the state I live in, to sell it would be a major hassle. I have to go through an FFL, and the buyer has to show he has taken an approved firearms safety class, pay an extra $20, and wait 10-days to take possession.

Just not worth it to me.

Now, if I had 5 of them, and they prices went up to $1500, then it may be worth it, but would be skirting the confines of the laws, and I'm just not comfortable doing that.

[farmbif]

was in a very old gun/pawn shop in northeast tn, for as long as I've been going there they have no less than 8- rifle racks that are probably each about 10 feet long completely filled with rifles and shotguns in addition to the glass cases. and a big shelf section full of ammo. well today more than half the rifles are gone, there were a few odds and ends of handguns in the cases. no ammo, none, nada--all gone, no primers, no powder
as far as how much shooting do folks do? good question maybe for one of those polls.
I guess I'm an average shooter and probably cast, load and shoot on average I wanna say 50 to 100 rounds a week, that includes rifle handgun and shotgun, I'll shoot maybe a at least 50 to 100 rounds of stuff like 9mm, 40s&W at a time but stuff like 30-06, 30-30 not as many as that per shooting session but stuff like 357, 41, 44 mags and 45 colt in the Rossi's its easy and fun to 100 rounds a session, so on average lets say 100 rounds a week x 52 = 5200 primers a year x2 for just in case, kind of a safety margin thing.
so if I was to adequately prepare for these shortages that we've been getting hit with I would want about 40,000 primers per presidential term limit. well I guess I'm not that good of a prepper after taking this unbiased self evaluation.
I better start becoming frugal with what I do have

[dtknowles]

You could make transfers through a FFL and not run any risk.

That is something to consider.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Buying guns from a dealer and then reselling them without an FFL face to face is still legal in Texas. I don't know about other countries.
I'm not talking about "Straw Purchases".
Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

I was talking about Federal Law. Trading guns more that just occasionally is consider being in the business of dealing in firearms and that requires a license. Buying a lot of brand new guns, never firing any of them and then selling them makes you a dealer.

Tim

[farmbif]

I never heard of buying multiple of guns illegal? every time rock island has an auction there are lots of guns that sometimes include as many as 10 guns at a time.
I know I once won a lot of 5 and filled out 1 form at the gun shop they were shipped to, no problems in any way, does not matter if they are shotguns, 22's or ar or ak's
you fill out one form for each purchase day at any shop. that is how its been in all the different states I have lived in, once bought 3 stripped lowers, filled out 1 form for the sale. and I sure aint no dealer or ffl holder, just a hobbyist

[Winger Ed.]

I never heard of buying multiple of guns illegal?

It's not.
For more than one handgun purchase in 5 days or less, the dealer has to send a multiple purchase form to the ATF/DOJ
and the chief LEO designated to receive them in your state or country.

In 4 states- including Texas, ATF/DOJ gets a copy of the same form for multiple purchases of semi-auto, magazine fed rifles.
If you aren't in one of the 4 states, you're good.
Its not a federal law, but applies in those 4 states, and the ATF has agreed to enforce it.
It was granted in 2011, extended in 2018, and is set to expire 31Jan2021.

[dtknowles]

I never heard of buying multiple of guns illegal? every time rock island has an auction there are lots of guns that sometimes include as many as 10 guns at a time.
I know I once won a lot of 5 and filled out 1 form at the gun shop they were shipped to, no problems in any way, does not matter if they are shotguns, 22's or ar or ak's
you fill out one form for each purchase day at any shop. that is how its been in all the different states I have lived in, once bought 3 stripped lowers, filled out 1 form for the sale. and I sure aint no dealer or ffl holder, just a hobbyist

Yep, you only bought 5 and it is not the buying that gets you in trouble it is the selling. They are not clear on how many is too many but if you are buying and selling at a large scale to make a profit you are supposed to have an FFL.

From the ATF website:

https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download

"As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and
sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast,
if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal
collection, you do not need to be licensed"

The idea that brought this up was if we bought a couple hundred thousand of primers when prices were normal and sold them now we could have made a lot of money. Someone responded that AR's are not all that expensive right now maybe the same thing could be done with AR's. I said that could get you in trouble with the ATF.

There is an exception for liquidating a collection. If you bought a bunch of guns over a period of years but want to sell them all at once that is Ok. If you buy someone's collection and then start selling it that is not really allowed without a FFL.

Tim

[3856imp]

Primers and powder readily available 3 years ago. You should have bought some then.price was up but looks good now

[popper]

In 2017 LC had ~9B$ of Gov. ammo orders (7.62,9mm, 50 cal. & 223). And a primer facility explosion (ATK). Understand they also make some Hornady 223 stuff. Loneoak supposedly is ready to run again and the ATK(?) desert plant + Sig L.R. They are running full steam so we get to wait.

[3856imp]

Now unumtanium.

[3856imp]

If you aint got it you won't.

[snowwolfe]

I just checked gunbrokers. The average price of small rifle and pistol primers is roughly $180-200 per brick when the auction ends.

[MUSTANG]

I just checked gunbrokers. The average price of small rifle and pistol primers is roughly $180-200 per brick when the auction ends.

We may have seen the peak of the spike, or near it though. Prices for loaded .223 on Gun Broker have become somewhat stable in a range of $1.00 to $1.20 per round depending on variety. I am actually seeing some .223's on the shelves at several locations such as Sportsmans & Ski Haus, and Murdochs in Kalispell. There were 40 to 100 boxes of 20 at each locations several times when I went in over the last week to 10 days. Prices were about $7.50 per box. Supplies were limited to "Foreign Produced" in what they were offering; but there seems to be some stabilization (peak) occurring for now. This could mean that as shelves begin to slowly be refilled; we should see prices on auction houses slowly diminish if this occurs. Of course, it will be a slow process and any dramatic actions by the Congress/President in the next year could alter that current trajectory.

I am still hearing from sales staff that it will be 6 months to a year before we se primers available.

[brewer12345]

We may have seen the peak of the spike, or near it though. Prices for loaded .223 on Gun Broker have become somewhat stable in a range of $1.00 to $1.20 per round depending on variety. I am actually seeing some .223's on the shelves at several locations such as Sportsmans & Ski Haus, and Murdochs in Kalispell. There were 40 to 100 boxes of 20 at each locations several times when I went in over the last week to 10 days. Prices were about $7.50 per box. Supplies were limited to "Foreign Produced" in what they were offering; but there seems to be some stabilization (peak) occurring for now. This could mean that as shelves begin to slowly be refilled; we should see prices on auction houses slowly diminish if this occurs. Of course, it will be a slow process and any dramatic actions by the Congress/President in the next year could alter that current trajectory.

I am still hearing from sales staff that it will be 6 months to a year before we se primers available.

Maybe. Or maybe there will be a convenient mass shooting in February and we will be off to the races again.

[Brass&Lead]

I saw large pistol primers at Graf’s on Monday. I blinked and they were gone. It took about six minutes with each purchaser limited to 5000.

[abunaitoo]

Here, we almost always have an everything problem.
Powder, primers, haeds(bullets), ammo Even corncob and walnut for cleaning.
I bite the bullet and buy by the case when I can.
Have enough to get by for a while.
With this chinese virus, haven't done much shooting all year.
So haven't been looking for anything.
Just hope this nonsense ends soon, so I can get back to it.

[Handloader109]

Fergit the Primers!
Dang TOILET PAPER is again short around here.....

[dverna]

Fergit the Primers!
Dang TOILET PAPER is again short around here.....

There are substitutes for TP....primers....oh crap!

[porthos]

don't you guys think that there has been enough about primers on this site!!!!!

[DDriller]

don't you guys think that there has been enough about primers on this site!!!!!

We have to keep talking about them so the Primer Fairy will fly and bless us with primers.

[Idaho45guy]

We have to keep talking about them so the Primer Fairy will fly and bless us with primers.

Fact.

[MUSTANG]

Seriously; if we do not keep talking about it - there will be many less committed shooters who will give up and go back to alternate activities like knitting, or rock collecting/stacking, or paper mâché , or....

[Froogal]

Seriously; if we do not keep talking about it - there will be many less committed shooters who will give up and go back to alternate activities like knitting, or rock collecting/stacking, or paper mâché , or....

Or maybe even golf. Talk about boring.

[lightman]

In 2017 LC had ~9B$ of Gov. ammo orders (7.62,9mm, 50 cal. & 223). And a primer facility explosion (ATK). Understand they also make some Hornady 223 stuff. Loneoak supposedly is ready to run again and the ATK(?) desert plant + Sig L.R. They are running full steam so we get to wait.

If you mean the ammunition plant in Lonoke Arkansas, their parking lot has been full of cars all week. I guess I need to reach out to some of the people that I know that work there for info.

[Winger Ed.]

Or maybe even golf. Talk about boring.


I could get more interested in golf and even baseball if somehow it was combined with skeet.

[gbrown]

Watch a tennis match, that'll put you to sleep.

[gbrown]

I enjoy reading these threads, just seeing where everyone is, in their own situation. Gives me a good idea where I am at.

[OldBearHair]

I have seen and heard of "Archery Golf" but, never participated. They have something called "bird watching". I have seen a lot of birds but I don't want to stand around and watch them. Oh! I have a few primers.

[Idaho45guy]

CCI Small Pistol Primers available here...

https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Product/Details/5737663?fs=1

Only $249 per 1000...

[trails4u]

CCI Small Pistol Primers available here...

https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Product/Details/5737663?fs=1

Only $249 per 1000...

Which will end any potential future seller/customer relationship I might have had with them. Politely.....they can ef off.

[Winger Ed.]

Only $249 per 1000...

The factories are making this stuff as fast as they can, but its not enough to keep up with the current demand.
We all know that.
I'm sure the factories are shipping as much and and fast as they can.

It would be interesting to learn if the factories have jacked up their prices to distributors,
or are the high prices we see now just scalping that's happening between the factory's freight dock and us.

[dale2242]

The last time I bought primers at Sportsmans Warehouse. Maybe 3 months ago.
They were still $23.99 a 1000.

[Idaho45guy]

The factories are making this stuff as fast as they can, but its not enough to keep up with the current demand.
We all know that.
I'm sure the factories are shipping as much and and fast as they can.

It would be interesting to learn if the factories have jacked up their prices to distributors,
or are the high prices we see now just scalping that's happening between the factory's freight dock and us.

I know my LGS said they still get the same amount of primers in that they normally do, and still sell them for the normal price, but they are gone within the hour.

I wouldn't blame them for raising the price if it meant they lasted on the shelf longer so more people had a chance at them. Even if they doubled the price, I would still pick up another case or two just to be more comfortable. I'm good on small rifle and large rifle and large pistol. Probably five years worth. But small pistol is a little light. But probably still a year or two if I'm stingy.

[Elmer Fudd]

The factories are making this stuff as fast as they can, but its not enough to keep up with the current demand.
We all know that.
I'm sure the factories are shipping as much and and fast as they can.

It would be interesting to learn if the factories have jacked up their prices to distributors,
or are the high prices we see now just scalping that's happening between the factory's freight dock and us.

Just a quick lesson: When demand outstrips supply, prices rise. That can be from the raw material suppliers, the manufacturer, the shipper, the wholesaler or the retailer, etc. Some people call it unscrupulous, scalping, whatever. But, the rising price is a bit of market self-regulation. If the product is scarce and relatively inexpensive, the scarcity will never end. If the product is scarce and the price rises, demand cools and supply catches up. This is all based on individual actions, not a collective (which does not exist). Individuals choose to raise prices. Individuals choose to buy when prices are high. Individuals choose to never shop at places with names like less expensive compared to soil because of perceived gouging. But I would venture a guess that they will have those products the longest, so if you find yourself in a crisis and needing, say, primers, you could find them at those places long after the regular priced sellers are out. Remember: individual choices.

[VariableRecall]

Looks like CCI 500's are reaching over $200 per-brick on Gunbroker. Yikes! And here I was thinking that $75 was far too much per brick! What a shame.

[rototerrier]

Looks like CCI 500's are reaching over $200 per-brick on Gunbroker. Yikes! And here I was thinking that $75 was far too much per brick! What a shame.

How so? If you had no primers, wouldn't you be thankful knowing you could buy a brick at this very moment from gb? (Not asking or targeting you personally, just using your post as a general reference)

I'm quite relieved just knowing they are available if needed.

Folks would be in here with an entirely different viewpoint if suddenly the primers vanished from gb and elsewhere. Some would even be openly wishing they could pay 200 if only to find some.

I think we should all be thankful that the open market is still functioning and things we might need are still available.

[RobClarke]

regular primers and powder at Cabelas on Friday! just took a few and left most no SP though

[Froogal]

How so? If you had no primers, wouldn't you be thankful knowing you could buy a brick at this very moment from gb? (Not asking or targeting you personally, just using your post as a general reference)

I'm quite relieved just knowing they are available if needed.

Folks would be in here with an entirely different viewpoint if suddenly the primers vanished from gb and elsewhere. Some would even be openly wishing they could pay 200 if only to find some.

I think we should all be thankful that the open market is still functioning and things we might need are still available.

I will simply stop shooting before I will pay those prices. I have a reserve stash of 9mm, 30-30, .410, and 12 gauge for when the SHTF.

[Blanket]

I don't know what world you are living in, but certainly it is not the same world as the rest of us live in. Maybe yours is a fantasy world? reality's

[richhodg66]

Wife and I went to a discount store in a little town not far away that sells guns and ammo (and a little of everything) including a few reloading supplies today after church. Hadn't been in there in months, but left with a thousand 209 shotgun primers for $29 plus tax. I started shooting trap last year pretty regularly, so these will help. I may be doing more shotgun reloading in the near future.

[farmbif]

there are options available, flintlock rifle kits start at about $400 and they seem to be in stock at reputable online stores. and there is no hazmat fees involved

[richhodg66]

there are options available, flintlock rifle kits start at about $400 and they seem to be in stock at reputable online stores. and there is no hazmat fees involved

I bought a few hundred #11 caps the other day, not really because of this, just seems like I always come up kinda short when muzzle loader season rolls around every year, but your point is valid. Muzzle loaders are fun and cheap to shoot, I need to exercise mine more. Air rifles too.

[brstevns]

Golf, Tennis, Basketball, Hockey all the same to me, would rather watch the grass grow or given the time of year the paint peel.

[Froogal]

Golf, Tennis, Basketball, Hockey all the same to me, would rather watch the grass grow or given the time of year the paint peel.

Also, football and baseball.

[brstevns]

Also, football and baseball.

Forgot those, never watch them so easy to forget LOL

[rbuck351]

If I was out of primers (I'm not and won't ever be), I still wouldn't pay GB prices. If I had to, I would make primer compound and reload primers. I have converted large rifle cases to shotgun primers which works well. Also I shoot a flintlock and several caplocks and have made black powder.
I don't mind places that mark up profit 1000%, I just don't buy from them. Never bought anything from folks that sell dirt for more than primers or powder and never will. I buy when the shelves are full and the prices are low and I buy too much. I believe I will run out of years before I will run out of components.
Shortages and the unprepared are not a new thing. The Bible has many stories of this. Seven years of feast and seven years of famine as well as the ten virgins are examples of being prepared vs not prepared. I feel sorry for the folks that live in places like NY city that shop for meals every day and keep next to nothing in their pantry. This is a tinder box just waiting for a spark.

Why do folks sit and watch other adults play games. If you like a sport go do it.

[Froogal]

I have a couple boxes of spent primers. Never really knew why I saved them, but now I do. If only there was a sure fire way to reload them.

[perotter]

I have a couple boxes of spent primers. Never really knew why I saved them, but now I do. If only there was a sure fire way to reload them.

http://aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

You'll find sure fire methods and enough there to get you going and maybe never need more info. The Dr. who wrote this up used to post here in the special projects area on this topic. Nice guy and as he spent a life time working in the field of chemistry, does a good job at both research/testing and writing. Personally I do a few things different than him, but my goal are a bit different than his.

By the way, on and off I've reloaded primers over 40 years.

[dtknowles]

I have a couple boxes of spent primers. Never really knew why I saved them, but now I do. If only there was a sure fire way to reload them.

There is, actually there are many ways. Check out other threads.

[Retumbo]

picked up 3000 primers for $130CDN...maybe I should buy more:Bright idea:

[Froogal]

http://aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

You'll find sure fire methods and enough there to get you going and maybe never need more info. The Dr. who wrote this up used to post here in the special projects area on this topic. Nice guy and as he spent a life time working in the field of chemistry, does a good job at both research/testing and writing. Personally I do a few things different than him, but my goal are a bit different than his.

By the way, on and off I've reloaded primers over 40 years.

Thank you. I bookmarked the website.

[perotter]

Thank you. I bookmarked the website.

You're welcome.

It may also be of interest that there is how to make a couple of different DIY smokeless powders on that sight. I've tested those, but as the pressures involved much higher than say BP I don't like to talk so much about it.

IMO, by make a few DIY one will find peace of mind about have an unlimited supply at an extremely low cost even if one does have a good supply.

[brstevns]

I was wondering how sensitive the cap gun-type primer is? Would they be safe in an auto? Are they recoil sensitive?
Also what would be the slowest powder that they would work in such as the 30-06 class of cartridges. I would like to give them a try.

[Pipefitter]

Just how did this thread go from primer shortages to talk of watching sports????
Inquiring minds want to know.....................

[MUSTANG]

One can only finger the trigger on that firearm with no boolits to fire for so long until the mind drifts off.

[Hossfly]

Conserve, conserve,conserve, don’t shoot till you see the whites of their eyes.

[dverna]

Just how did this thread go from primer shortages to talk of watching sports????
Inquiring minds want to know.....................

People realized there was no shortage....just none at “fair” prices.

[Evoken]

Needed to get some flints for the muzzleloader. The Lgs just got some primers in this morning. Got a brick of cci large rifle for 40$. They are still filtering in slowly if you catch them before the scalpers.

[Froogal]

Needed to get some flints for the muzzleloader. The Lgs just got some primers in this morning. Got a brick of cci large rifle for 40$. They are still filtering in slowly if you catch them before the scalpers.

Key words being "if you catch them before the scalpers"

[marlin39a]

Got over 5000 of each, 1000 Win 209. I’m all set forever.

[Evoken]

Indeed, I will not pay scalper prices. If when this is all said and done the new price is 100$ a brick, so be it. But for now I will conserve what I have and need and quietly put the word out to the locals that I'm looking.

[daengmei]

If you want mine you will pay me what it takes to replace mine. Yea I'm a scalper.

[Froogal]

If you want mine you will pay me what it takes to replace mine. Yea I'm a scalper.

Two different on-line retailers I checked just today have Winchester large pistol primers priced at $41 per thousand, so that is what it will cost you to replace yours.

[kerplode]

Two different on-line retailers I checked just today have Winchester large pistol primers priced at $41 per thousand, so that is what it will cost you to replace yours.

But they're not in stock, so they're not really $41/1000.

[dverna]

But they're not in stock, so they're not really $41/1000.

Now that is funny

[Froogal]

But they're not in stock, so they're not really $41/1000.

Correct, but I have watched the price slowly creep up to that point and stabilize, all while being out of stock, so I'm sure that when they do become available again, the price will be $41 per one thousand.

[Minerat]

Come on guys, keep it on topic. PLEASE!:Bright idea:

[jonp]

http://aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

You'll find sure fire methods and enough there to get you going and maybe never need more info. The Dr. who wrote this up used to post here in the special projects area on this topic. Nice guy and as he spent a life time working in the field of chemistry, does a good job at both research/testing and writing. Personally I do a few things different than him, but my goal are a bit different than his.

By the way, on and off I've reloaded primers over 40 years.

Is there a practical difference in Antimony Sulfide and Antimony Trisulfide in making primers as the Trisulfide is much cheaper. Is it just the amount of contaminates and will that make a difference? Been a long time since college chemistry

[Tripplebeards]

A friend of mine found and bought a brick of SP primers in AZ the other day for $75. I would have passed. I will have to check with my LGS to see if they still have any of their CCI primers in stock for $39.99 a brick. Same price they have been charging for the last decade. It’s been about a month since I’ve been in there. I stayed out of there after I felt I bought enough primers of every size (accept for SP) to last me a couple elections.

[Castaway]

What I don’t understand is why, after a hurricane, the State Attorney General prosecutes those who overcharge for water, chain saws, generators, gasoline or other commodities. Same rules should apply to a loaded ammo or primers.

[Froogal]

What I don’t understand is why, after a hurricane, the State Attorney General prosecutes those who overcharge for water, chain saws, generators, gasoline or other commodities. Same rules should apply to a loaded ammo or primers.

Yes. I agree 100%

[MUSTANG]

What I don’t understand is why, after a hurricane, the State Attorney General prosecutes those who overcharge for water, chain saws, generators, gasoline or other commodities. Same rules should apply to a loaded ammo or primers.


Because Your Governor, Legislature, Justice System (and the other 49 States as well); as well as the Federal Governance have become Socialist and authoritarian, and no longer adhere to the concept of PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Down side of PROPERTY RIGHTS is that some people will not have the charitable spirit that many of us believe is essential in society - but that is an individual issue, not a Government Issue as our Republic was conceived. And yes - the concept applies to someones Private Property (Primers) or their Private Property (Water bottles, Generators, etc...). Because one could say find primers at a lesser traveled store for $35.00 per thousand DOES NOT MEAN that an individual who has a few, should be forced to sell them at the same $35.00 per thousand. Sometimes guaranteed freedom and liberty of others does not work to our personal advantage.

[rbuck351]

+1 MUSTANG
I have more spp than I probably will ever use but I'm not selling any because I don't need to. If I needed money, I probably would sell some of my stash for what ever I could get for them. It's my stuff and if someone else wants it worse than I do they will have to pay more than it's worth to me if I decide to sell at any price. My family is more important to me than your family is to me. Sorry but that's life.

[perotter]

Is there a practical difference in Antimony Sulfide and Antimony Trisulfide in making primers as the Trisulfide is much cheaper. Is it just the amount of contaminates and will that make a difference? Been a long time since college chemistry

Different names for the same thing.

On a side note, some substitute DIY tin sulfide for it. I've never made it nor tried it. But in the Special Projects section of this forum in the Making Primer Compound thread there was plenty of info on doing it. Simple enough to do.

FWIW the French have long used tin sulfide instead of antimony sulfide. I don't know if it was an availability issue or their desire to do it different than how the Germans did it.

[MarkW]

What I don’t understand is why, after a hurricane, the State Attorney General prosecutes those who overcharge for water, chain saws, generators, gasoline or other commodities. Same rules should apply to a loaded ammo or primers.

Well if they did that there might be some clamoring for going after the pharmaceutical industry, and they can't afford to tick off the lobbyists.

Here's an article where a lady was billed $39.6K each for 2 vials of scorpion antivenin, that the hospital got for $3,800 so she paid close to $80,000 over. Now if you read farther in the article there's this: The drug is made from horse antibodies and comes from Mexico, where it costs about $100 per dose, according to Kaiser Health News. So someone is buying it for $100 and then selling it to hospitals here for $3,800 who then mark it up to $39,000+ each dose. And realize this- at $100, someone is making money!

Anyway, yeah I think that people who take advantage of others for water and other essential necessities of life like primers are also pretty much jerks and it absolutely should not be forgotten, but never lose sight that the real fleecing goes on all the time and should be dealt with first IMHO.

[Brass&Lead]

Exploitative pricing, gouging, price fixing, usury, etc. are just ways to say I don’t want to pay that. In a free market the supply / demand / price is self-leveling. When the government interferes, it is no longer a free market.

[dtknowles]

Exploitative pricing, gouging, price fixing, usury, etc. are just ways to say I don’t want to pay that. In a free market the supply / demand / price is self-leveling. When the government interferes, it is no longer a free market.

Markets are rarely free, the powerful create monopolies, cartels or collude to fix prices. They use the courts to extend there patents so they can charge huge markups long after they are recovered development costs. Sometimes government intervention is need to prevent monopolies that artificially inflate prices. Yes, there are many free markets but some are only that way because the government intervene to keep the markets free.

In the case of primers I see no reason for or evidence of the government fixing prices. In the primer market the price is whatever the market will bear and that is what it should be. Businesses that have them can sell them however they want at whatever price they want.

Tim

[white eagle]

no problem getting primers just picked up
2k/1 srm and the other lp plus 8# of superformance

[reddog81]

...water and other essential necessities of life like primers are also pretty much jerks...

If you consider primers an essential necessity, you should have had a decent supply before the SHTF.

[gbrown]

If you consider primers an essential necessity, you should have had a decent supply before the SHTF.
+1, I agree.

[MarkW]

If you consider primers an essential necessity, you should have had a decent supply before the SHTF.

You don't see me whining about not having enough primers :) My only self-made panic buying during all this I brought on myself when I found a mostly full 4 pound jug of Win 296 I'd forgotten I had. I have a M1 carbine I don't shoot and was on the fence about selling it but 3+ pounds of 296 will last quite a while so I did have to go and find some dies and brass, which I found on the forum here.

Anyway, the point I'm getting at is when you have enough powder to where you can forget and not miss about 4 pounds of it and all the related brass, bullets, and -primers-,each component is still essential as no matter what it is without whatever it brings to the table everything else comes to a standstill. So let's just say that even though I'm personally set with primers for quite a ways into the future I still think that those people who seriously exploit the situation are kinda being jerks.

[reddog81]

People putting primers up for sale on gunbroker are doing a service and making primers available when they otherwise would be completely unobtainable. If you don’t like the price, don’t buy them.

[VariableRecall]

People putting primers up for sale on gunbroker are doing a service and making primers available when they otherwise would be completely unobtainable. If you don’t like the price, don’t buy them.

I had regrettably purchased a batch of 755 large pistol Primers for around $75. The prospect of it REALLY sucked but it means that at least GalvinGround has some primers to put to use when he runs out of primed brass.

Then again, this was well before prices of primers reached to almost $200 a brick.

Right now, they are just about completely out of reach for me, but the least I could do in the future is beg and moan in person to some boolit pals in the future for some later.

[Idaho45guy]

Stopped at the LGS today to see if any powder or primers.

Not only were there none, but the shelf space where they used to be was now filled with other products. I asked the clerk about it and he said they thought it was no longer prudent to waste retail space for products that will likely not be available again for months, or years.

He said he heard now that law enforcement agencies were having issues getting ammo and all primers and powder were diverted to make sure at least the cops had ammo.

You hear a lot of BS in gun shops, but I did witness that they got rid of the powder and primer sections.

A friend of my dad's owns an internet-based firearms supply co. and he said his 9mm ammo was backordered 8 months.

[762 shooter]

Beware of anyone that thinks they should have control over your personal property.

There are names for that.

762

[Blanket]

no sympathy here for those that snoozed. The last shortages I kept a Jr. rifle club shooting with what I had. Whine away

[Scrounge]

I guess I havn't been paying attention but I went online today to try and buy a box of primers and they are all gone. Did I miss something?

Haven't been able to find any around here in about 3 months now. Not to say I've been everywhere they could be.

[Froogal]

After my planned session at the reloading bench today, I will have exactly 100 large pistol primers still in the box. BUT, after today, I will have enough loaded ammo to last for several years.

[MUSTANG]

How many have saved/are saving/will be saving primers to rebuild using one of the methods found on this site (such as Toy Caps, Primer Mix and charge old primer)?

[dverna]

What I don’t understand is why, after a hurricane, the State Attorney General prosecutes those who overcharge for water, chain saws, generators, gasoline or other commodities. Same rules should apply to a loaded ammo or primers.

Many reasons you are incorrect...but the one you may accept is:

Primers are not a commodity. Almost no one needs primers or ammunition to survive. I doubt less than one primer in 10,000 is used to make ammunition used in self defense or to put meat on the table. If someone is in those circumstances, 200 primers will last a long time and they should not be using them up shooting for "fun". They are too poor to shoot.

BTW, if someone feels primers and ammunition are essential to survive, and does not have enough to do so, they have made poor choices. I have given ammunition to people like that; but they get one or two boxes and told firmly there is no more.... do not piss it away.

[dtknowles]

How many have saved/are saving/will be saving primers to rebuild using one of the methods found on this site (such as Toy Caps, Primer Mix and charge old primer)?

I was doing that before the panic.

Tim

[Froogal]

How many have saved/are saving/will be saving primers to rebuild using one of the methods found on this site (such as Toy Caps, Primer Mix and charge old primer)?

I have saved every primer since I began reloading, along with the trays and boxes. Doubtful I will ever attempt to reload those primers, but it is still good to know it is possible.

[tankgunner59]

I had a great surprise today. I was able to get a brick of Federal SRP's today at the LGS for $41 + tax. I had gotten 300 from an awesome member here, mooman76, a couple weeks ago. I had a reserve in at the LGS for two or three months, I forgot all about it and they called this evening and said to come pick them up. Nope, not for AR's. They are for some Federal 6.5 Creedmoor cases of mine. I am in with primers now for a good while. I was surprised that we now have primers in Podunk Illinois. I don't know how long though.

[la5676]

Trays and boxes too? That would almost be classified as a hoarder.

[LAH]

Don't think I'll be rebuilding any primers.

[tomme boy]

Got an email from Midway that remington sp primers are now discontinued. I would guess that all Remington primers are now gone.

[Tripplebeards]

Got an email from Midway that remington sp primers are now discontinued. I would guess that all Remington primers are now gone.

Midway lists all their items “discontinued” they decide not to sell anymore as well.

[dverna]

How many have saved/are saving/will be saving primers to rebuild using one of the methods found on this site (such as Toy Caps, Primer Mix and charge old primer)?

I have neither the desire or need. If I was low on primers, I would start shooting air powered pistols and rifles for fun, and conserve primers for self defense and hunting. In those applications I want to use what I know will work. Unless there is a civil war, 1000 primers are a lifetime supply at my age. Even at $200/1000, that is affordable.

It would be informative if those who have remanufactured primers would share the cost and time required to do 100. I am guessing about 2 hours to make 100.

[Blanket]

And remember your earlier post,sad your from Iowa

[kevin c]

I have saved every primer since I began reloading, along with the trays and boxes. Doubtful I will ever attempt to reload those primers, but it is still good to know it is possible.
You certainly live up to your screen name!

All of my used primers had a second life; as boolit alloy. The metal recycler took them in trade for scrap lead.

Tankgunner, was that price at your LGS typical or higher than preshortage?

[VariableRecall]

Only $899/case, what a bargain!
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/883757489

22 cents per-primer is a steal compared to this offer for 8lbs of powder at an approximate cost of almost $4 an Ounce!
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887065856

[perotter]

....

It would be informative if those who have remanufactured primers would share the cost and time required to do 100. I am guessing about 2 hours to make 100.

The price to do it with a corrosive mix one can figure between $0.30 to $1.00 per 1000. With a non-corrosive mix one should figure $1.00 to $5.00 per 1000, depending on which mix and what you have to start with.

The time really varies because of what equipment one has and how many you want to make. If you do them one at a time I'd allow 45 minutes to an hour for it.

I have primer plates that are made along the lines of what are or have been used. For some sizes they will do 100 at a time. Using that one it would be 10 minutes at the most if making a total of 100.

I've never done it, but I'd estimate that with plates for making 100 at a time one should be able to 2000 to 3000 per hour.

If someone wants to try making some, I'd recommend at least make a single primer plate that holds 5 to 10 cups. No need to make the match plates to start out with for it, IMO.

[Finster101]

The price to do it with a corrosive mix one can figure between $0.30 to $1.00 per 1000. With a non-corrosive mix one should figure $1.00 to $5.00 per 1000, depending on which mix and what you have to start with.

The time really varies because of what equipment one has and how many you want to make. If you do them one at a time I'd allow 45 minutes to an hour for it.

I have primer plates that are made along the lines of what are or have been used. For some sizes they will do 100 at a time. Using that one it would be 10 minutes at the most if making a total of 100.

I've never done it, but I'd estimate that with plates for making 100 at a time one should be able to 2000 to 3000 per hour.

If someone wants to try making some, I'd recommend at least make a single primer plate that holds 5 to 10 cups. No need to make the match plates to start out with for it, IMO.

Could be a good business opportunity for some of our better forum fabricators.

[tankgunner59]

You certainly live up to your screen name!

All of my used primers had a second life; as boolit alloy. The metal recycler took them in trade for scrap lead.

Tankgunner, was that price at your LGS typical or higher than preshortage?

About $8 higher than pre-shortage. But it's better than what they are going for on GB. I have plenty of all other primers I need. I actually don't own a small rifle. I have a 6.5 Creedmoor, and after buying 100 Federal cartridges and firing some I found they use SRP's instead of LRP's. I got a deal from a member here and he also had some of the SRP's he let me buy from him. I had completely forgotten about the reserve I had at the LGS. There is a local retailer that has a gun desk and department, and they get the Federals in from time to time. So now I won't be concerned if thats all I can find.

[tomme boy]

And remember your earlier post,sad your from Iowa

??? What do you mean? That was my only post on this thread besides this one

[Retumbo]

Well with the last order, I am sitting at 10,000 plus primers. Should last till retirement

[dtknowles]

Well with the last order, I am sitting at 10,000 plus primers. Should last till retirement

10,000 does not sound like a lot. I have not purchased primers for years but I use large pistol, small pistol, large rifle, small rifle, bench rest small rifles, magnum small pistol, magnum large pistol, magnum large rifle, 209's and number 11 percussion caps. One box of each would be 10,000 primers if I only tried one brand I know I have more than one brand of some of the ones I use most often. I did not do an inventory but each time I take out a sleeve, if I am low I make a note but stock up and I have no note on being short of anything.

Tim

[farmbif]

if things keep up ammo prices will be sky high and when I'm able to trade my primers for a Cessna 172, the primers will be going

[Retumbo]

10,000 does not sound like a lot. I have not purchased primers for years but I use large pistol, small pistol, large rifle, small rifle, bench rest small rifles, magnum small pistol, magnum large pistol, magnum large rifle, 209's and number 11 percussion caps. One box of each would be 10,000 primers if I only tried one brand I know I have more than one brand of some of the ones I use most often. I did not do an inventory but each time I take out a sleeve, if I am low I make a note but stock up and I have no note on being short of anything.

Tim

Us Canadians shoot less than you 'MERICANS

Lmao:-P:-P:-P

[dverna]

The price to do it with a corrosive mix one can figure between $0.30 to $1.00 per 1000. With a non-corrosive mix one should figure $1.00 to $5.00 per 1000, depending on which mix and what you have to start with.

The time really varies because of what equipment one has and how many you want to make. If you do them one at a time I'd allow 45 minutes to an hour for it.

I have primer plates that are made along the lines of what are or have been used. For some sizes they will do 100 at a time. Using that one it would be 10 minutes at the most if making a total of 100.

I've never done it, but I'd estimate that with plates for making 100 at a time one should be able to 2000 to 3000 per hour.

If someone wants to try making some, I'd recommend at least make a single primer plate that holds 5 to 10 cups. No need to make the match plates to start out with for it, IMO.

Thank you for sharing that information.

At a saving of $30/1000 and production rate of 2000/hr it works out to a very significant cost savings...if they work. Heck even if just used for training, plinking and fun shooting, that covers 90% of primer consumption for a lot of high volume shooters.

Would you be kind enough to show a picture of the plates? I envision a perforated plate attached to a base plate to make it cheap and easy to produce.

[tomme boy]

if things keep up ammo prices will be sky high and when I'm able to trade my primers for a Cessna 172, the primers will be going

BIL just bought a 182

[perotter]

Thank you for sharing that information.

At a saving of $30/1000 and production rate of 2000/hr it works out to a very significant cost savings...if they work. Heck even if just used for training, plinking and fun shooting, that covers 90% of primer consumption for a lot of high volume shooters.

Would you be kind enough to show a picture of the plates? I envision a perforated plate attached to a base plate to make it cheap and easy to produce.

Life is simpler IMO when a person can just buy the primers they want/need, but DIY will keep a person shooting as much as they want.

If I happen to find them, as I haven't used them is several years, I'll take a picture. I'm in the delayed process(got injured) of moving both that area where I reload, the area where I did primers and shop equipment.

You are figuring correct for the most part as to what they look like. But there has to matched plates that are indexed with each other. You should have at least 2 plates, but might want as many as 4 or 5(of the top of my head and latter I'll list them). The must have ones are one for the cups and one for the anvils. The attached base should be easily removable. I made them extra long enough to put primer compound on before scrapping it into the cups when using a dry mix. Based on how much you want to fiddle around, total desired and how safe you want to be. The last one is extremely high for me.

You'll be happier if the primers are sorted and kept separated by brand, as the anvils seem to fit better when used with the same brand cup. Also I'd suggest making a single one for just 5 to 10 cups to learn/test with.

If a corrosive mix primer doesn't work, a person did something very wrong. If I wanted to practice a bunch, I'd be reloading them. FWIW I have made a couple of cup just for fun.

[Froogal]

Okay. We've figured out how to make our own primers, and we know how to make our own bullets, but what happens when our brass becomes compromised and unuseable? We also know how to make our own BLACK powder, but has anyone figured out how to make SMOKELESS powder?

Seems like if we are to continue in this hobby, we all need to go back to the flintlock era.

[MUSTANG]

........

If someone wants to try making some, I'd recommend at least make a single primer plate that holds 5 to 10 cups. No need to make the match plates to start out with for it, IMO.


Request Again: Can you provide a Picture or a Link to the single primer plate or the match plate you mention? Would like to build as it should beat the heck out of my one at a time on the bench top.

[perotter]

Request Again: Can you provide a Picture or a Link to the single primer plate or the match plate you mention? Would like to build as it should beat the heck out of my one at a time on the bench top.

I'll give it a try to post diagram. But it's been a few years since I've attached anything here.

I also have the dxf file that this came from and can try to send that you.

273766

Wow got it. Easier than I remember it being.

What I attached is for 100 primers and shows 1/8" holes. Those holes are pilot holes that need to be then sized to whatever size primers on needs. The 1/4" holes are for aligning the plate for matching when desired.

[perotter]

Okay. We've figured out how to make our own primers, and we know how to make our own bullets, but what happens when our brass becomes compromised and unuseable? We also know how to make our own BLACK powder, but has anyone figured out how to make SMOKELESS powder?

Seems like if we are to continue in this hobby, we all need to go back to the flintlock era.

I've made a few different smokeless powers. Including nitrocellulose ones, along with several different ammid/ammon powder formulations.

If nothing else, the extremely careful and thoughtful person can try the ammid powders that are in the A&O book that is available online at aardvark. The main things with the ammonium nitrate powders is get the linear burn rate into to same range as the nc powders we use and fix the problems with changes due to temperature. An ammid powder fixes both of those problems, plus ignites better.

BUT, you can get into trouble real fast with a DIY smokeless powder! So I don't think it is for every person out there who reloads. In an ideal world one has a way to test pressure.

As cartridges have been made for a bit over 180 years, I wouldn't drag a flintlock home unless it was an actual old timer and free.

[MUSTANG]

I'll give it a try to post diagram. But it's been a few years since I've attached anything here.

I also have the dxf file that this came from and can try to send that you.

273766

Wow got it. Easier than I remember it being.

What I attached is for 100 primers and shows 1/8" holes. Those holes are pilot holes that need to be then sized to whatever size primers on needs. The 1/4" holes are for aligning the plate for matching when desired.

Thanks Perotter. The pdf gives some help in getting started building a primer plate.

[perotter]

Thanks Perotter. The pdf gives some help in getting started building a primer plate.

You're welcome.

If you are going to use a dry mix you might not want to make it for 100. More like for 50 or 60. Also if you do as I normally do and use a wet mix, you'll want a plate that is about 1/2 the thickness of the the cup.

FWIW I used standard sized drill bits that I could be locally. In theory they aren't the perfect size, but seem to work fine

[dverna]

Interesting thread drift...but a good one.

There are two issues that are drivers for me. The primary one is cost savings. It is the only reason I cast and reload. The second is safety....whatever I do must have minimal risk.

For plinking ammunition, performance is not a huge issue. Good enough is good enough. If I could save $30/1000 on primers, and safely produce 1000 per hour I will remanufacture primers. So I need to study that a bit in depth.

[dtknowles]

If I can't buy primers I will make them but I would pay a lot for primers before I resorted to making them.

Tim

[dverna]

I watched some videos and I must be missing something. I would put the production rate of making primers at 100 per hour...maybe less. I can see it as a SHTF knowledge to have if primers were not available, but I would pay $100/thousand and shoot less...and/or differently.

My cost for a box of .38's with cast bullets, (what I shoot the most) is $3.00. With $100 primers it is $7.70
5.56 with jacketed is $4.10/box. With $100 primers it is $5.60
.308 Cast is $2.00, and with $100 primers it comes to $3.50/box.

I use .38's for plinking and target practice. With $100 primers, I would shoot less CF and more .22's (yes I have cases of .22's bought cheap - under $2/box)

The CF rifles used the most are .223/5.56. At $4/box is is affordable and I have a good supply of bulk jacketed bullets for them. But I use 25 gr. of powder that costs about $200/jug. If I switched to cast .308's with 13 gr of powder that is $120/jug, I can load a box for $3.50. I would still get the same amount of range time for a bit less cost, but with more work (casting and lube/sizing) than shooting jacketed 5.56.

Because I enjoy shooting I will find a way to shoot. Even if I need to buy a PCP gun to do so.

The downside of these high prices is that people who were borderline about casting/reloading/shooting will have another reason to stop reloading and shooting as much. That hurts the sport. The upside, is we can expect to see equipment and possibly even weapons being sold off as people lose interest and motivation.

[perotter]

I watched some videos and I must be missing something. I would put the production rate of making primers at 100 per hour...maybe less. I can see it as a SHTF knowledge to have if primers were not available, but I would pay $100/thousand and shoot less...and/or differently.

.......



You have been watching videos of people using test or survival methods to do it. Try to find a video of how factories do it, there used to be some on youtube that showed it. Or read G. Frost's book 'Ammunition Making'. There is one other book on primer making that tells about how the factories do it, but I can't think of the name of author right now. Also there are several old books that, while the their main topic isn't primers, show the equipment factories used in the 1880-1900 era for primers.

One needs to think things thru. If it takes an hour to do 100, the labor at a factory would be $300 per 1000. And the factories haven't been selling them at that big of a hit.

Also some food for thought. I'd bet no member here reloads much ammo without any equipment beyond a rock and a nail. How many here cast their bullets by making a hole in the ground with a stick and pouring lead into it? Both can be and have been done.

[tarbe]

Quote: How many here cast their bullets by making a hole in the ground with a stick and pouring lead into it?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never thought of that. Who needs a mold? haha

[Winger Ed.]

How many here cast their bullets by making a hole in the ground with a stick and pouring lead into it? Both can be and have been done.

I've been wanting to pour molten Aluminum into fire ant mounds, but never thought of casting boolits using a hole in the ground.

[perotter]

I've been wanting to pour molten Aluminum into fire ant mounds, but never thought of casting boolits using a hole in the ground.

If you can't buy what you need or want, you have to figure out a way around buying, suffer or you didn't need it in the first place. For hunting, making bullets out of clay with a coiled wire inside are/have been common where lead isn't available. Much can be learned from those who have lived or live in other parts of the world.

[perotter]

I look it up and using 100 plus year old tech with plates for 500, normal rate of production is calculated at 6250 primers per hour. Of course that is new primers where the old anvil and the dimple don't have to be removed.

[dverna]

I look it up and using 100 plus year old tech with plates for 500, normal rate of production is calculated at 6250 primers per hour. Of course that is new primers where the old anvil and the dimple don't have to be removed.

But, the anvil must be removed (and I have only seen caveman technology used to do that), and the dimple swaged out (more caveman tech). I can see having a primer feeder to feed primers to a station where the anvil is picked out (and saved), then the primer is advanced to another station where a die like a GC maker presses out the dimple. A guy like Mr Morrris could build something that would get the job done...but that is way past my ability.

Then the parts need to washed three times (according to one of the links you posted). Then make up the paste. fill the cup with paste before it dries, and reinsert the anvil. I see how the 100 unit plate comes into play for that.

The highest production rate I have ever achieved is 850 rounds an hour on a 1050 with clean cases, and prefilled primer tubes, I cannot envision how I can remanufacture primers any faster. BTW, my normal rate on the 1050 is closer to 700/hr (I am not as good at operating stuff as others). With what I know now, 100/hr is going to be a lot closer than 2000/hr to remanufacture primers.

I could not find a video showing primers being produced in quantity. If anyone has a link that would be interesting. But it looks like a survival skill for desperate times for the very poor who could not afford to prepare, or those too foolish to prepare.

No one on this site is remanufacturing primers in a reasonable quantity (or willing to broadcast it?) and we make our own bullets and ammunition. Some have stated they will stop shooting rather than spend $100/1000 for primers. That may change if things get worse. Other reloaders are spending as much as $200/1000 for primers on GB to have ammunition.

Folks will do what they need to do. Either stop/reduce shooting, remanufacture primers, or pay market price. The answer is different for each of us.

I would like the ability to remanufacture primers but it needs to be safe, produce a quality product, and worth my time. I would invest $1500 in a machine/process that remanufactured primers at a rate of 500/hr and a cost of $10/1000. Not interested in caveman technology. They would be used for plinking and fun shooting where most primers are consumed. I would never run out of primers for serious needs.

[perotter]

Yup, everyone will do what they think is best for themself.

Personally - If I was still reloading and shooting 50-85,000 rounds a year, I'd be loading primers in new cups. I have a crank press I bought for such a situation, but have never made the punch and dies to do it. I happened to be standing at a place when it was being loaded up to be hauled to the scrap year. It was in like new condition and got it for $50.

If I was only going to be loading few rounds a year(100?) for hunting or plinking, I'd either buy a 100 or reload primers. FWIW, when I was in college(early 80's) I only shot for plinking 50-100 rounds a year. I used free matches for powder and reloaded primers with strike anywhere match tips. I didn't want to use up my smokeless powder nor spring for the $1 to buy primers.

For 1000-2000 rounds a year I'd have a life time of store bought now. If didn't have them, I'd pay the current high price.

For 3000-20,000 l'd reload primers.

Yup. Popping the anvils is the thing that one likely would end up doing one at a time. The rest of it isn't done one at a time. For example, remove the dimple in multiple cups at the same time. I've never washed them nor did member Delmar. And I know he reloaded each of his at least 15 times and still considered them good. FWIW he got into guns and reloading when there were no primer to be had by the 1000s, but managed to buy 100. Also he had to make his own white powder. If using a wet mix, it will stay wet for hours.

One has to take off one's 'This is how I reload cartridges, so I need to reload primers the same way'. Even the progressive press we use to reload with are based on 1890's methods of factory loading when labor of $0.10 and hour. To reload any amount of primers, one needs to use plates. A good way to do that is to read G. Frost's book. That book was written about setting up and/or running an ammo factory for a profit. Great detail in it on using plates for both load cartridges and primers.

Boy $1500 for a set of plates. Maybe is something for someone here to do. Likely you could have them made for a few hundred. To get an idea, call a local modern machine shop and ask how much it would cost to have a hundred 1/8" holes drilled on 3/8" centers into 12 gauge steel. Of course to have them made, the holes need to be the proper sizes. Not sure what it would cost to make the pins.

[Fireball 57]

I went to my LGS today as I suspect the elite-elect will have a January surprise in store for us. Scored 400 SPP's at $5.65 ea. CCI's, 2 boxes 50 rn. 22's and a single jug each of HP38 & HP6 for $23 ea. Guess the supply is catching up until Commie Harris of the Biden show works on the next gun control act. Get it while you can!

[jonp]

400 at $5.65 each? You paid over $20,000 for primers? Ouch!! I'd pay $5.65/100 considering the cost that would add to a round which isn't much.

[Lloyd Smale]

thats still over 50 bucks a brick or 250 bucks a case. I say the problem is still here.

[Four-Sixty]

Just grab them when you can. Many people with means will speculate on primers in the next election. Even at $40/1,000, you can buy 100,000 primers for under $5,000. There are plenty of folks with credit lines, savings or income that could pull that off. I bet in 2 years people are going to start hoarding primers again hoping they'll go for $300/1,000 again at the next election.

Its in the interest of manufacturers to increase the supply so folks can use their products!

[dverna]

Just grab them when you can. Many people with means will speculate on primers in the next election. Even at $40/1,000, you can buy 100,000 primers for under $5,000. There are plenty of folks with credit lines, savings or income that could pull that off. I bet in 2 years people are going to start hoarding primers again hoping they'll go for $300/1,000 again at the next election.

Its in the interest of manufacturers to increase the supply so folks can use their products!

I can attest that the strategy works. Sold 40k on Sunday, will sell 65k tomorrow and 30k next weekend. All of my remaining primers and powder are paid off and I can shoot for years at no cost. Planning on selling 15-20k .22’s as well.

Will buy back in, when prices drop back down. With the direction the country is headed, things will not get better. Should be more opportunities down the road.

[perotter]

I found the book online that goes into the details of using plates for primers. What they look like, sizes, detailed steps and times for each operation. For ones own use they wouldn't need to be this big.

https://ia800905.us.archive.org/21/items/GeorgeB.DmitrieffPoorMansPrimerManual/%20George_B._Dmitrieff%20_Poor_Man%27s_Primer_Manu al.pdf

[Fireball 57]

Gents, I stand corrected, I paid $5.65 per 100 primers. My last 10000 primer sleeve cost just under 0.02 per primer. You missed the point of my reply. That being, some primers are getting through the supply chain, as we speak. Have a Happy New Year! Fireball 57

[dbosman]

I realized recently that I started loading just over fifty years ago. I know, young compared to some of you. I got started after the Gun Control Act of 1968.
If you want a preview of what might be coming, read the original act - bearing in mind that it did pass, as written.
That's the act that banned the sale of home cast bullets.

[Brassmonkey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_O9gSKFguU

primer process starts at 3:50