simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

try casting a few and dropping onto paper towel. then try coating.

[MDC]

Can someone tell me the difference in k15 and 1035?
both say black

[Ausglock]

K15 is Black
1035 is Gold.
Texas tea is a mix of K15 black with some 1035 gold to give it a metallic fleck to the coating.

[HI-TEK]

Can someone tell me the difference in k15 and 1035?
both say black

The K-15 is an intensely Black coating. 1035 is a brilliant/glistening Gold coating.

[HI-TEK]

K15 is Black
1035 is Gold.
Texas tea is a mix of K15 black with some 1035 gold to give it a metallic fleck to the coating.


Hate to say, but that is not correct. The Texas Tea does not contain any K-15, and does not contain 1035 Gold.

[MDC]

The K-15 is an intensely Black coating. 1035 is a brilliant/glistening Gold coating.

Thanks, I ordered the k15 but I have both it and 1035 in my cart currently and they both say they are black. There was a color that looked like a metallic black at one time but I don't see it now.
Any chance you could put pics on your page to show the coated bullets. One of the reds and a gold have pics up

[Ausglock]

Hate to say, but that is not correct. The Texas Tea does not contain any K-15, and does not contain 1035 Gold.

I stand corrected... It's been a long time since I played with Texas Tea...

[HI-TEK]

Thanks, I ordered the k15 but I have both it and 1035 in my cart currently and they both say they are black. There was a color that looked like a metallic black at one time but I don't see it now.
Any chance you could put pics on your page to show the coated bullets. One of the reds and a gold have pics up

OK, I understand.
There are these colors, that fall into Black description/category

1. Old Black which is a very dark Brown and looks Brownish Black
2. Texas Tea, which is Black with Gold glitter type of additive.
3. K-15, which is an intensely pure Black.
4. 1035 is on its own a very bright/glittery Gold coating

You can see pictures on a Facebook Page, in Photos.
Link is attached.
https://www.facebook.com/JM-Specialized-Products-278002006203240/?modal=admin_todo_tour

[ryanmattes]

Where can I get these colors in the US?

hi-performancebulletcoatings.com only has a handful of colors, and only in the powders. I can find the liquid anywhere in the US, and the color selection is mostly small.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[MDC]

Thank you sir, k15 is what I'm looking for.
On the hi performance coating site if you click the yellow colored tab, it list it as gold 1035 in the cart but there is also a gray tab that shows the description in the cart as black 1035. May be just an error on their site?
Thanks for your help.

[MDC]

I'm a little behind the curve on Hi Tek so this may have been discussed previously, can I mix the powders?
If I mix the k15 with some of the bronze I have, would it be similar to the Texas Tea?

[Ausglock]

Where can I get these colors in the US?

hi-performancebulletcoatings.com only has a handful of colors, and only in the powders. I can find the liquid anywhere in the US, and the color selection is mostly small.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

You will find that the powdered Hitek replaced the Liquid Hitek.
The powdered version is easier to mix and less messy to handle.
It is also safe to mail as it is NOT a dangerous goods article.

[Ausglock]

I'm a little behind the curve on Hi Tek so this may have been discussed previously, can I mix the powders?
If I mix the k15 with some of the bronze I have, would it be similar to the Texas Tea?

Mixing colours is not that straight forward.
I have been mixing them for 7 years and the results vary....but they still work as intended.

[Petander]

Mixing colours is not that straight forward.
I have been mixing them for 7 years and the results vary....but they still work as intended.

I mix them as liquids,not powders. Fun, sometimes unpredictable results.

Here is 40% Tru Blue / 60% New TMG Gold. A hot 44 mag load from last winter hitting snow. Adhesion is not perfect, some scratches, but these shoot fine and do not lead more than a 22 LR.

This is my favorite green now.

https://i.postimg.cc/0NGqYYrv/IMG-20201004-122920.jpg

[Tazza]

K15 is very dark black, it works very well for me, very good choice. No matter how hard i tr, i can't over cook them and make them too dark :)

[dikman]

No matter how hard i tr, i can't over cook them and make them too dark :)

The perfect colour! Ideal for the beginner.:lol:

[Joe504]

Yall making me jealous I cant get these colors in the US.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

Yall making me jealous I cant get these colors in the US.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

You should be able to get these below colors in the US, just contact Donnie at Hi-Performancebulletcoating LLC
Black (standard Old Black) Black K-15, Texas Tea, (Black with Golden Metallic), Gunmetal, (very dark Green Grey), Bonze 500, Bronze 502, Bronze 530, Red Copper, Blush Red Copper, Red 254, Red 122, Kryptonite Green, Zombie Green, Dark Green metallic, TruBlue, Black Cherry, Old Gold, Gold 1035, Aztec Gold, Desert Sand (Tan Yellow), Candy Apple, (Red with Gold Glitter), Burnt Orange,
The old gold is probably my favorite, it has a rich metallic gold appearance.

[Stephen Cohen]

Joe, I don't know why it is but the best groups I have ever fired were with the old Gold Coating, I also enjoyed the look on faces when I was asked how I cast brass bullets, my answer, a bloody hot mould. I also love the Candy red it seems to be the smoothest and most shiny coating. Regards Stephen

[Avenger442]

Best groups I have fired are with a gold, too. The 1035 Gold in my .308. May have to try the Old Gold to see if I can tighten them up.

268877

Best at 100 yards four shots under 1/2" whith flyer making it a 1" group 1035 Gold.

268878

Usual groups with 1035 are around 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" at 100 yards.

[Stephen Cohen]

Best groups I have fired are with a gold, too. The 1035 Gold in my .308. May have to try the Old Gold to see if I can tighten them up.

268877

Best at 100 yards four shots under 1/2" whith flyer making it a 1" group 1035 Gold.

268878

Usual groups with 1035 are around 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" at 100 yards.

That is a wonderful group and a shame about that flyer. Regards Stephen

[RydForLyf]

This thread is starting to sound like “red cars are faster, just because.” Hopefully we can get some solid experiments, or Joe better start whipping up a whole lot of gold hi-tek..

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Avenger442;5000730]Best groups I have fired are with a gold, too. The 1035 Gold in my .308. May have to try the Old Gold to see if I can tighten them up.


Avenger & RydForLyf
It seems some folk must have already had used or tried the Old Gold in US as Donnie had ordered this product recently, and also some of the Gold1035.
I can only think that results would have been OK for people that had used it..

[RydForLyf]

We need data, groups with different colors. Which color shoots the best group? Shouldn’t make a difference, but some are saying the gold is magic.

[HI-TEK]

We need data, groups with different colors. Which color shoots the best group? Shouldn’t make a difference, but some are saying the gold is magic.

Well,.... this sounds like a great project for you possibly. I have never seen any of the coatings being directly compared with a specific gun, to determine if any differences are noted at all. In theory, all should work equally, but due to many gun variations/configurations/bore type, rifling & loads, there is a great deal of variability. I can only envisage that several are tested in a gun, then, use different ammo in another gun with same coatings. Then, you may be able to say, that X worked with this gun, and Y worked with the other gun, or, found no differences between all coated casts.

[Ausglock]

This colour V colour is bullswaddle.
Sizing, alloy BHN, shape, powder, primer, case, load density and headspace affect accuracy more than colour of the coating.

Cast, coat, load, shoot, enjoy, repeat

[RydForLyf]

I appreciate the suggestion of a research project, but right now my plate is too full. The only conclusion I can provide is that in my testing, no Hi-Tek color can overcome improper sight alignment and a lack of trigger control. ��

[Avenger442]

Let me clarify something. The comment I made about tightening up groups with Old Gold was more tongue in cheek than it sounded. And I didn't mean to suggest that one color was more accurate than another. 1035 Gold was just the first color I tried and I stuck with it. I've used 1035 Black, as per label on powder, in the the 45-70 with a hollow based bullet and good accuracy. Groups with another bullet about the same weight in that gun also coated in 1035 Black were not as accurate. That batch of my coating, by the way, seems to leave a little color on the wipe test no matter how long or hot you bake it. But it is black bake it to your hearts delight you can't ruin the color.

So like Trevor said "Sizing, alloy BHN, shape, powder, primer, case, load density and headspace affect accuracy more than color of the coating." I would add the obvious consistency in all of the measurements and operations of loading. I have changed, slightly, some things like crimp or trim or modifications of the case and lost accuracy in loads in the same rifle. So consistency when you find that load in that rifle is also a factor. And would add to that the metallic coatings probably have some difference in the accuracy of a rifle load than the non-metallic coating due to the heat reflecting property. I'm not sure that would show up in a handgun load at normal distances.

And before someone ask, I don't have the time to run test either. I even have trouble coating. I've got one of my experiments, a bullet, for my .308 that has been sitting on my bench for months uncoated. Another 10 pounds of bullets also sitting there uncoated. Part of the problem is just not taking the time. It is a hobby for me after all. But we have had our share of things lately that just take time away from the hobbies.

[dikman]

But we have had our share of things lately that just take time away from the hobbies.
Aint that the truth! Buggering up an ankle puts a stop to virtually everything! No casting, coating, reloading, shooting, working in the shed, making things.....the list is long.:-(

[Burnt Fingers]

Donnie's stock has been quite low since this Covid hit.

I'm sure he wants to get everything back in stock as much as any of us.

[Stephen Cohen]

This colour V colour is bullswaddle.
Sizing, alloy BHN, shape, powder, primer, case, load density and headspace affect accuracy more than colour of the coating.

Cast, coat, load, shoot, enjoy, repeat

I have to agree with you, even though as I said gold did give me my best group, I do not for a minute believe colour makes a difference. Regardless of the the song living next door to Alan. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

Some people feel the metalic finish is better for heat rejection, but i find it hard to believe that the the few mili seconds that the projectile has a flame behind it from the propellant has enough time to melt the lead on the base. Friction of the lead on the bore rifling yes, but not from the head. This is where sizing is critical, too loose, and the tens of thousands of PSI of gas will push past the projectile, melting the lead as it cuts past it.

[Petander]

Some people feel the metalic finish is better for heat rejection, but i find it hard to believe that the the few mili seconds that the projectile has a flame behind it from the propellant has enough time to melt the lead on the base. Friction of the lead on the bore rifling yes, but not from the head. This is where sizing is critical, too loose, and the tens of thousands of PSI of gas will push past the projectile, melting the lead as it cuts past it.

I keep finding bullets that I've shot into snow.

Here is a recovered 44Mag full house N110 loaded bullet. Tru Blu/TMG Gold-mix.

https://i.postimg.cc/0jFZn1mQ/IMG-20201009-084418-559.jpg

[Tazza]

Shame we on't have snow or allowed o shoot in the back yard, or i could show the base of one of my K15 projectiles. The only ones i see the base of are the ones imessed up reloading and need a rod to push out of the barrel.....

[ryanmattes]

So I did my first attempt at Hi-Tek coating today. The first batch I think I coated too heavy and I cooked them a little too long (the darker ones). The second batch came out much better.

Both passed the acetone test easily, but the first batch failed the smash test. I'm pretty sure it's because the first coat was too heavy and didn't cure properly. There are also lots of touch marks. The second passed the smash test.

I cut the recipe in half, since I only had a couple hundred bullets to coat: 10g powder to 50ml acetone. Next time I think I'll add a little denatured alcohol on top of the acetone, because they mostly didn't get a full 15 seconds of tumbling before they got too dry. Must be the heat and humidity in Texas. The first batch I tumbled I followed the directions and left the lid off, and that dried in about 3-5 seconds. That's probably why they came out like they did. After that I would hold the lid on and let it burp as needed while I tumbled. That got me a 10-12 second tumble before they dried out.

Just looking for either confirmation or correction on my technique. The plan is to thin it a bit with alcohol to extend tumble time and thin the coat. Then pay closer attention to the cook time so I don't overcook like I did the first time.

Also, should I shoot the dark ones? Are they any worse than bare lead? Or better just to melt them down and start over?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201011/b7b2d367c09fea0b4ef718709a1d78be.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201011/c184c893b58671bbb2c604e726328216.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Avenger442]

Ryanmattes

Just my two cents but, both coats if they are fist coats in the photos look a little thick to me. If second or third coat they look great. If it passes the acetone and smash test shoot it. It is OK to shoot over cooked bullets that are darker.

On the ones that didn't pass the smash test. You take a chance that they will lead the barrel. I have shot some that didn't pass and they didn't lead. They did pretty much what yours did. But conventional wisdom says melt them. Which is what I usually do.

Guys here will tell you not to half the recipe. I know it seems like your wasting coating when you only have a couple of pounds to coat. As I understand it there is a greater chance for error. And this stuff will keep for a while.

Technique seems OK for closed tumble. But would suggest dumping wet especially on the first coat. Even if you have to add the alcohol to do it. Different tumble times for different conditions, but usually in my humidity controlled area that I coat in with the recipe that comes with the coating I close tumble for about fifteen seconds and they dump slightly wet. Dry to touch in about one minute. But completely dry in about fourty five minutes sitting on top of the stove to preheat. Usually dry over night when on first coat when I have time. But like I said different conditions may change things.

I'm sure the guys from down under will chime in.

[Tazza]

Have you touched the cast with bare hands or lubricated your mould halves at all? I do feel the coat seems a bit thick, as the first coat generally looks a bit lighter than that, even after cooking.

I always do 3 fairly light coats. The first and second coat, you can still see the lead underneath, the third makes 'em pretty. I know 2 is all you need, but for the extra time to do a third, it's worth it.

They always pass wipe and smash tests, you do your part, the coating will do it's part too.

Did you ensure the coating was totally dry before baking too?

[ryanmattes]

@avenger442

Thanks. I did 3 coats on these because I figured I'd use up more of what I mixed. Once I get it all down I'll likely only do 2 coats.



Have you touched the cast with bare hands or lubricated your mould halves at all? I do feel the coat seems a bit thick, as the first coat generally looks a bit lighter than that, even after cooking.

I always do 3 fairly light coats. The first and second coat, you can still see the lead underneath, the third makes 'em pretty. I know 2 is all you need, but for the extra time to do a third, it's worth it.

They always pass wipe and smash tests, you do your part, the coating will do it's part too.

Did you ensure the coating was totally dry before baking too?

I wear nitrile gloves when I cast, or really when I'm handling more than a single bullet or two, so I don't really touch them much, although I may have picked a few up afterwards to inspect.

I didn't lubricate the mold halves. I smoked it the first time I used it, but I've cast hundreds in multiple sessions since then.

Like I said above, it was 3 coats, but even with no experience I felt like the first tumble on the first batch was way too short, and I didn't get good coverage.

I feel like the thickness has to do with the acetone evaporating too fast and causing the powder to clump. About half of the lube grooves on the first batch were still shiny lead after the first tumble, so I was pretty certain that batch was not going to be right.

Do you think that halving the recipe is a bad idea? Right now my intention is to halve it again, but this time add maybe 10ml of denatured alcohol to the mix, on top of the 50ml of acetone, both to make it thinner and to extend the tumble time for better coverage.

It's entirely possible I also didn't let them dry completely. It was outdoors at 4:00 in Texas, so the ambient temp was around 90F (32C), and even under a tree there was a lot of direct sun on the table. Fully cooled to ambient temp still felt about the same as body temp, so they were pretty warm and dried to the touch in minutes. I gave them 20-30 minutes drying time at that temp, but they may need more.

In the future, maybe I'll do the first coat the night before, let them sit overnight, and then bake them the next day.

One other variable: the oven I gave is a convection over, and I put it on the "turbo" setting instead of bake. Tons of air circulation, but it took a long time, maybe half of the cooking time (5 minutes), to get up to temp. I can try it in "bake" instead. I have a thermometer inside the oven to watch the temps.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201012/db7f2eb99f4a6a701ea48412f3058188.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[dansedgli]

The poorly covered ones look like they arent dry enough.

I had heaps and heaps like that when I first started. Put them on top of the oven while its warming up or while others are cooking to help dry them.

Since doing that i havent had any issues, even with a short drying time.

I try to leave them in front of a heater for a few hours if I can.

[Tazza]

If that's 3 coats, then they look about right to not have had too much applied in one coat.

I have a plastic container that i scoop up my projectiles as my measure, i then add them to my shaker bottle and add 3ml of recently shaken liquid hi-tek. If it's not covering as well as you'd like (hot dry days), add 1-2ml more acetone with a clean syringe. I have never used denatured alcohol, i find that with the extra acetone, it never dries too fast for me, but avenger swears by it. I think he wets them first with it, then adds the coating on top.

As long as the nitrile gloves are not powdered, that is what i use too.

[slide]

There is nothing wrong with halving the mixture. I do it all the time. Punch a small hole in your lid to allow fumes to escape and leave the lid on. Go to amazon and buy yourself a digital thermometer with thermocouple. Drill a hole in a coated bullet and squeeze the base around the thermocouple. Put it in with your bullets when you bake. This way you will know what is going on temp wise with your bullets. Temp of the bullets is the key, not the temp of the air in the oven. You don't need 400F,360F is good. Once your bullets hit the 360F mark give them two to four minutes. Anymore I hardly ever use the convection setting,takes longer to heat up. The bake cycle works just fine. Hope this helps.

[Avenger442]

What's happening Slide. Haven't talked with you in a while.

[slide]

Medical problems, comes with old age.

[Tazza]

Medical problems, comes with old age.

Good to have you still here with us, the older we all get the more issues pop up, as long as we all keep one step ahead of the under taker.

[Avenger442]

Yeah my wife has had some issues lately that have kept her incapacitated. Out of work 12 weeks. And guess who gets to take up the slack:bigsmyl2:

[slide]

I hope she is getting better. She is a nurse,right? Lot of work keeping a house up.

[Avenger442]

I thought I would make my point on the over baking of the coating and the old mixed coating. I was loading to test some case prep vs. no prep and Federal Match primers vs the usual CCI.

269536

This is a mix of several colors being mixed two to six months before use, leftovers from other coating sessions. They were stored at room temperature. They were baked 400F for twice as long as normal. As you can see bullet is dark almost black. Partially due to old coating and definitely due to the bake.

Here are the targets at 100 yards. You can have as much accuracy as you want with Hi Tek.

269537

269538

269539

269540

And it looks like case prep (flash hole debur and uniform primer pocket) does help a bit. Case still out on the match primer.

[RydForLyf]

After struggling/stumbling with countertop ovens, I decided to up my game and have a purpose built Hi-Tek/CeraKote curing oven.

FB Marketplace was my shopping mall until I found my donors. I parted out what I didn't want and cobbled together what I kept so I now have a double convection oven with 6 racks. The top oven will be for cooking/curing and the bottom oven will be for drying/preheat. I've recently been using both of them as brass drying after wet tumbling.

I haven't been able to do any Hi-Tek coating yet, but I'll no longer be handicapped by the oven. One nice feature is the PID with the built in timer. I hooked it up so it lights up the timer reset switch and also has the capability to sound a buzzer if desired.

269543
269544
269545
269546

[Petander]

Shame we on't have snow or allowed o shoot in the back yard, or i could show the base of one of my K15 projectiles. The only ones i see the base of are the ones imessed up reloading and need a rod to push out of the barrel.....

In my pic you can see how VV N110 powder granules have left pressure marks on the bullet base coating.

[Petander]

After struggling/stumbling with countertop ovens, I decided to up my game and have a purpose built Hi-Tek/CeraKote curing oven.

FB Marketplace was my shopping mall until I found my donors. I parted out what I didn't want and cobbled together what I kept so I now have a double convection oven with 6 racks. The top oven will be for cooking/curing and the bottom oven will be for drying/preheat. I've recently been using both of them as brass drying after wet tumbling.

I haven't been able to do any Hi-Tek coating yet, but I'll no longer be handicapped by the oven. One nice feature is the PID with the built in timer. I hooked it up so it lights up the timer reset switch and also has the capability to sound a buzzer if desired.

269543
269544
269545
269546

Way to go!

Congrats,looks great.

[Petander]

I took a summer break from casting,also not much work so motorcycles took all my time.

Now I'm back. Also pictured is a 2019 S&W 629 V-Comp with a new hand on top of it. The gun is a complete mess with badly late timing, underclocked barrel , bad rifling with blow-by, .428 throats that make even j-bullets undersize, hammer and all internals dragging, nothing polished, horrible forcing cone... and all this from the factory "Performance Center".

It's a customer return that I've been examining. I may keep it, (maybe pay a little) and repair it but even then it will become very expensive. But I like the grip and like to "hobbybubba" so maybe... already polished rebound and some other dragging parts. Got rid of endshake etc...

No warranty to talk about here,overseas. All the licenses for shipping guns / parts back and forth make it economically impossible.

Modified TMG Gold here, a little overripe because I had forgotten my settings...

https://i.postimg.cc/R0GVMvwh/IMG-20201017-000949-257.jpg

[Ausglock]

nice. hope it works...

[ryanmattes]

Coated about 14lbs tonight. I added a few ml of rubbing alcohol to thin it out a bit, and between that and it being cooler this evening I got a much longer tumble, and a much thinner coat. The first batch came out a little dark, so I adjusted the time down a couple minutes and the rest came out great.

After a single coat they stand up to the smash test, they look good, so... Is there any reason for a second coat?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201017/fe325341f8d5db149fabddfbe2e4a148.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201017/7734e3500ca1c79d460257e4d5464fb2.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Ausglock]

If 1 coat works for you, and doesn't lead your barrel, stay with the 1 coat.
2 coats make them look better.
From the look of them, you used a bit much for 1 coat.
I coated and baked (twice) 12,000 today. sizing at the same time.

[HI-TEK]

I thought I would make my point on the over baking of the coating and the old mixed coating. I was loading to test some case prep vs. no prep and Federal Match primers vs the usual CCI.

269536

This is a mix of several colors being mixed two to six months before use, leftovers from other coating sessions. They were stored at room temperature. They were baked 400F for twice as long as normal. As you can see bullet is dark almost black. Partially due to old coating and definitely due to the bake.

Here are the targets at 100 yards. You can have as much accuracy as you want with Hi Tek.

269537

269538

269539

269540

And it looks like case prep (flash hole debur and uniform primer pocket) does help a bit. Case still out on the match primer.


They are great results. Years ago, a commercial caster had dozens of dropped coated cast left in his oven. They were baked for weeks, turned Black but were most accurate and no Leading as coating held onto alloy even with such temperature abuse.
I just want to clarify things with baking and over baking matters, If coating flakes off with normal bake or after over baking, then 99% of reason is inadequate drying before baking first coat.. simply, over baking alone, should not cause adhesion failures.

To Ryanmattes
The product looks great. You have mastered coating method. Now, the tricky requirement is to reproduce it over and over.

[Petander]

To Ryanmattes
The product looks great. You have mastered coating method. Now, the tricky requirement is to reproduce it over and over.

Make written notes on paper about the whole process.

It's so easy to think "I'll sure remember how this goes" ... don't ask how I know.

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/MphPfDGk/IMG-20201017-172614.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/NfZ7d0vm/IMG-20201017-223137-250.jpg

100 meter fun 44 Mag.

I don't know why but I find coating and loading for bigger calibers easier than small ones. Some guns have been spot on with the first bullet / coating combination. Like a 500 S&W, Marlin SBL 45-70, S&W m29 (pictured here, an -88 gun ),STI 45 ACP...

[dikman]

100 metres? With a handgun with open sights? Damn you've got good eyes!:holysheep

[marky123]

Here we go again....BLAAAAAAAARGH!!!!269613

[Ausglock]

Here we go again....BLAAAAAAAARGH!!!!269613

Don't overthink it.
Do as told. Don't think you know better, cause you don't!
Follow the step...to the bloody letter.
It is easy!!!

[HI-TEK]

Don't overthink it.
Do as told. Don't think you know better,
cause you don't!
Follow the step...
to the bloody letter.
It is easy!!!



Are you becoming a poet? your advice actually rhymes......

[Petander]

100 metres? With a handgun with open sights? Damn you've got good eyes!:holysheep

At 57 I do use reading glasses quite often but I can see okay to shoot with irons. I've been doing it all the time for decades.

To me,testing accuracy is easier at a little longer distance. Shooting groups @ 25 is boring and comparing small groups to other, almost as small groups can be difficult. I find it easier to find out about bad loads @ 100 m. Instant feedback on the berm -and the plate- shooter errors are somehow easier to see,too.

Here is our 25 m range, nice for the rainy day.

https://i.postimg.cc/Rhf7Xg2K/IMG-20201017-164237.jpg

[Petander]

Here is my Christmas Green™.

It has 25% (2ml) Tru Blu and 75% (6ml) Modified TMG Gold, mixed in the bowl with bullets pre-swirled with 2-3 ml of denatured alcohol. 8 lbs 10 min @ 190° C. Three coats.

https://i.postimg.cc/zD6mCDhm/IMG-20201018-220013-828.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Here is my Christmas Green™.

It has 25% (2ml) Tru Blu and 75% (6ml) Modified TMG Gold, mixed in the bowl with bullets pre-swirled with 2-3 ml of denatured alcohol. 8 lbs 10 min @ 190° C. Three coats.

https://i.postimg.cc/zD6mCDhm/IMG-20201018-220013-828.jpg



Petander
They are beautiful Green color. Well done.

[marky123]

Here is my Christmas Green™.

It has 25% (2ml) Tru Blu and 75% (6ml) Modified TMG Gold, mixed in the bowl with bullets pre-swirled with 2-3 ml of denatured alcohol. 8 lbs 10 min @ 190° C. Three coats.

https://i.postimg.cc/zD6mCDhm/IMG-20201018-220013-828.jpg

Did 200'C baking temp fail?

[Petander]

Did 200'C baking temp fail?

No fail @ 200.

But I prefer 190°C oven temp because my bullet surfaces hit 190-200°C then. At 200°C they go higher and bake darker. 190°C gives a bit more time margin,too.

I have a temp probe bullet that beeps @ 185°C . IR meters read the same exact bullet (surface) around 195-200°C. I make sure they are 3 min @ 185... trusting my nose around six minutes, I can smell they start curing at "probe - beeping - 185". Even though the surface reads more.

I don't really know the absolute real temps. Every probe meter (I have four) reads a tad differently and there are hot and cool spots in the oven. Which spot do you trust? My IR:s tend to read equal, I also use them for drying and cooling. Oven is a 2000 W wall oven, a mechanical meter reads 190 when oven dial is 190...

It's been like this with many different meters and three ovens. Surface always reads more than the probe inside. I have s PID but it should follow the surface temp IMO, thus I never bothered to connect it. Plus this oven has two blowers,I don't know how to connect them. It's working good as it is , for me.

I open the door a couple of times to cool down -and shoot IR temp- , around 8 and 9 min. It's the radiant heat working on bullet surfaces. I can keep them under 200°C that way.

Here is a probe in the hottest spot.

https://i.postimg.cc/gjxZ9ZP8/IMG-20201018-193349.jpg

[marky123]

Is your baking time 6 minutes and the hitek smells when its ready?

[Ausglock]

Is your baking time 6 minutes and the hitek smells when its ready?

Don't rely on the smell.

FFS... start at 10 mins at 200Deg C and work from there.
You MUST have a start point without fail before you go trying to speed up the process.
If you don't, and come back crying like a little girl about it not working, Expect no help!
I'm getting too bloody old and cranky to be putting up with clowns that can't do as told!

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Petander;5011430]No fail @ 200.

I have a temp probe bullet that beeps @ 185°C . IR meters read the same exact bullet (surface) around 195-200°C. I make sure they are 3 min @ 185... trusting my nose around six minutes, I can smell they start curing at "probe - beeping - 185". Even though the surface reads more.

You have described exactly what occurs with baking coated cast
1.Coating temperature on surface will be higher than alloy as you have discovered with the inserted probe.
2. Curing begins at the 180C mark just as your probe is measuring similar temperatures inside alloy, and the "smell", is due to the curing/crosslinking taking place at the same time and temperature.


To Marky123
To be able to get reproducible results, you simply cant rely on the nose smelling changes inside your oven.
Your nose does not tell you what is temperature of coated cast.
To get correct curing, the coated cast, must get to 180C and stay there or above for about another 2 minutes. This is how a reproducible and reliable way to get satisfactory results.
Measuring oven air temperatures will not tell you what is coated cast temperature.
You must know the temperature of the baked cast, not oven air temperature.
It is important, that you find out, how long it takes your oven to get a certain load (coated cast) up to 180C. Once you know that time for a load, then add another 2 minutes to time in oven.
That should be adequate to cure coating. Then, simply reproduce that method using information (time required in oven to get to 180C) that you obtained.

[dikman]

Hey Petander, that's a very classy looking tray you've got there.:lol::lol:

[marky123]

Don't rely on the smell.

FFS... start at 10 mins at 200Deg C and work from there.
You MUST have a start point without fail before you go trying to speed up the process.
If you don't, and come back crying like a little girl about it not working, Expect no help!
I'm getting too bloody old and cranky to be putting up with clowns that can't do as told!

Don't be a negative nellie,Trevor!
I'm giving it another try with harder alloy this time.

[Stephen Cohen]

Are you becoming a poet? your advice actually rhymes......

Actually this is one of his nicest and well put pieces, must be having a warm fluffy moment, Trevor normally tells it like it is with no consideration to niceties which I find quiet comical at times. I can't disagree with what he says though, when all else fails read the bloody instructions. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

Hey Petander, that's a very classy looking tray you've got there.:lol::lol:

Yeah I know,I make these custom trays. Would you like one?

I shouldn't have mentioned the curing smell to confuse people. But my baking is sort of nailed down now, the smell merely confirms it's going right. I pretty much know the temp and time at that "smell point". Thr smell is gone from my shed when cured.

Changing the load obviously changes times.

[marky123]

Do they smell when you shoot them?

[Avenger442]

You don't want to cure them in your barrel.

[Petander]

I had two 6 lbs trays to coat today. My 2000 Watt oven might take 12 lbs at once but I didn't feel like testing anything today. I usually coat two or three 6-8 lbs trays one at a time in the oven.

The reason I'm posting this, I sometimes see people complaining about the time it takes to dry and cool down then repeat.

Well,I don't watch the bullets dry or cool down. I have a pot and a hot plate on, casting all the "off-time" when coating. I only sit and watch the actual baking,it's happening in an outside shed.

Today, using only one mold I made more bullets than I coated. I let them dry 30 min on a warm place where they stay at 45°C for 15 min. I also let them cool (after baking) about the same time.

That's not wasted time at all.

https://i.postimg.cc/fWKkfzzM/IMG-20201020-221844-925.jpg

[Ausglock]

Do they smell when you shoot them?

Not when thay have been baked correctly.

I don't sniff or watch mine baking.
Put in the oven, turn when the 1/2 time beeps, remove when the full time beeps.
I'm sizing, boxing or coating while the oven is running.

[Petander]

I don't have to "sniff", just breathing in the room is enough to notice it. It starts at 5 min, ends at 8 about. Now we have snow and dry air,very easy to smell.

There's nothing else to do in that outside shed so I sit down with the smartphone,surf around, wait for the 185°C beep and open the door a couple of times and check with IR to prevent bullets heating up over 200°C. Which they do if I keep the door closed,even when oven is @185°C like today.

But well I just happened to mention the baking smell. Would you like to hear what kind of birds look at or I listen to while baking? I also feed and watch squirrels, sunflower seeds in the beginning and peanuts at the end of bake.

[HI-TEK]

Do they smell when you shoot them?

marky123
Yes they will smell when shot, only if user tries to be creative and not follow instructions.
Then, user will have to try and remove bonded coating from the bore. It is no fun I can tell you.
Again, I repeat, for the thousandth time, well dried coated cast must get to 180C in oven (not oven air temperature), and product is to be kept at 180C or slightly above for another 2 minutes.
User must determine and monitor the actual load temperatures, irrespective of what is ovens set temperature or what is oven air temperature.

The "smell" as referred to, occurs when coating is getting to the correct cure conditions (180C). After another 2 minutes at 180C, all reactions will be complete, (Cross linking done) and no more smells.
If any one has a smell when shooting, they have not followed instructions, and not baked adequately in the first place.
Properly heat cured Hi-Tek coating, does not produce any smells when coated cast is shot.

[Gremlin460]

< walks in, looks around, see's nothing has changed, walks out whistling>

[Ausglock]

< walks in, looks around, see's nothing has changed, walks out whistling>

HAHAHAHA... funny bugger..

[Ausglock]

The new Blue coated 127SWC loaded in Nickel 38 Super cases...
https://i.imgur.com/4GQ6RKe.jpg

This blue coating has been sitting, mixed for 2 months in my shed.
It coated perfectly.
https://i.imgur.com/0GZJvk7.jpg

[HI-TEK]

< walks in, looks around, see's nothing has changed, walks out whistling>


Gremlin,
Sometime it seem just like that.

[HI-TEK]

The new Blue coated 127SWC loaded in Nickel 38 Super cases...
https://i.imgur.com/4GQ6RKe.jpg

This blue coating has been sitting, mixed for 2 months in my shed.
It coated perfectly.
https://i.imgur.com/0GZJvk7.jpg



These are just beautiful.
One is TRUBLU, (darker Blue) and the other is latest lighter Blue, "Whyaggra" or something like that...lol..

[Ausglock]

Nope. All are Vyagarah blue

[HI-TEK]

Nope. All are Vyagarah blue

Well......,
I stand corrected.
Pictures were seeming to be different in color, one seemed darker than the other.
Probably lighting difference.
Any way, two months old made up mixture, seems to continue to work OK.

[RydForLyf]

Well......,
I stand corrected.
Pictures were seeming to be different in color, one seemed darker than the other.
Probably lighting difference.
Any way, two months old made up mixture, seems to continue to work OK.

Yep, looks like TruBlue is shiny brass cases. Lighting sure makes a difference.

[Petander]

I'm kinda getting back to this,forgot some details over the summer but...

Mihec 44's Left to right:

Modified TMG Gold , Candy Apple Red , Mod.TMG with 25%TruBlu , TMG Composite (original TMG).

Original TMG has two coats,all the others three.

https://i.postimg.cc/brx897sD/IMG-20201022-004712-809.jpg

[Gremlin460]

HAHAHAHA... funny bugger..

Moir!?, actually i dropped in to see what's new. After 12 months of interrupted shooting due to the Chinese Virus, I am getting close to having to recast and recoat some more projectiles.

Then I thought i would see if Joe had made any new colours that would be neat to try out, if he's been sober enough (jk). I was hoping the AU Flag coating was finished but doesn't look like it.

Mike.

[Petander]

That bronze colour is 80% TMG/20% Candy Apple.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRwGZfS9/IMG-20201023-120713-086.jpg

[marky123]

Oh yes

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

Anybody in CA have problems with the VOC compliant Acetone. I'm having issues and I think it may be my solvent.

[HI-TEK]

Anybody in CA have problems with the VOC compliant Acetone. I'm having issues and I think it may be my solvent.

All solvents to varying degree are VOC, (Volatile Organic Compounds), that includes Acetone, Alcohol, Petrol, Turpentine etc etc

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

Yes. The issue with California is they have limits set on what can be sold. For example, you can't buy denatured alcohol anymore among other things. The paint thinner is worthless.

That being said I just realized I was looking at the wrong MSDS, my acetone should be good to go.

The reason I questioned my solvent was because I've been have failures with my coating. I can not get a batch that passes the smash test. I've done about a dozen batches and all of them pass the wipe test but flake when smashed. I'm applying a light coat, 1ml per pound, and letting them dry for 24hrs before baking. Trying to track down the issue.

I am going to try increasing my bake temp.

[HI-TEK]

Yes. The issue with California is they have limits set on what can be sold. For example, you can't buy denatured alcohol anymore among other things. The paint thinner is worthless.

That being said I just realized I was looking at the wrong MSDS, my acetone should be good to go.

The reason I questioned my solvent was because I've been have failures with my coating. I can not get a batch that passes the smash test. I've done about a dozen batches and all of them pass the wipe test but flake when smashed. I'm applying a light coat, 1ml per pound, and letting them dry for 24hrs before baking. Trying to track down the issue.

Make sure that you are using Pure Acetone, not solvents containing Acetone.
My suggestion is, that despite drying over night, you may need to warm air dry coated cast to about 50C for half an hour or so. I suspect that you are using too much coating on first coat, Drying captures moisture which wont totally dry off. It needs to be warm air dried.
Solvent wipe test is confirming that coating is cured but not bonded.
When you think your coated cast is dry, just bake a couple, and continue warm air drying of the bulk. When after test baking it passes smash test, only then bake the bulk.

Just another question, what alloy are you using?

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

Okay I will try a warm air dry after coating. Where I live it is cool and humid, so what you're saying makes sense. I do dry them over a box fan but i could see how moisture would not wick out. I'm using 5mls for 200 45's. My alloy is 93-4-3. I'm buying lead with 2.5-3% antimony and adding tin.

Would 65C be okay for air dry, that's as low as my oven goes?

[HI-TEK]

Okay I will try a warm air dry after coating. Where I live it is cool and humid, so what you're saying makes sense. I do dry them over a box fan but i could see how moisture would not wick out. I'm using 5mls for 200 45's. My alloy is 93-4-3. I'm buying lead with 2.5-3% antimony and adding tin.

Would 65C be okay for air dry, that's as low as my oven goes?

Probably it would be better if you sat your drying tray on top of your oven with separators to allow warmed air to rise through your drying coated casts.
Feeling them will give you a good idea if they are warm enough, as at about 50C they are hold able but will be warm.
Have you an IR thermometer? It will hep greatly as it will give you direct temperature readings. Simples test is test baking a couple at a time. (Continue warm air drying the bulk) If the couple that are test baked pass all tests, the rest should be ready to be baked.

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

With the smash test, what exactly is a pass. Absolutely no flaking? Very small loss of coating with no lead showing?

[ryanmattes]

Others may be able to answer better, but here are my ideas of pass and fail.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201025/358061cd8ef44d372d0391f892ddc122.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201025/395362da04c0a43047db710b8cdc4e43.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

With the smash test, what exactly is a pass. Absolutely no flaking? Very small loss of coating with no lead showing?

Please have a look at video on smash test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbYOG5xKTr0

[BigMoney_NoWhammey]

I'm definitely failing the smash test. Did another batch today, first coat looks good. Going to let second coat dry overnight after sitting on top my oven. Really hoping I can get this dialed in. I'd rather be loading and shooting than struggling with this.

[HI-TEK]

I'm definitely failing the smash test. Did another batch today, first coat looks good. Going to let second coat dry overnight after sitting on top my oven. Really hoping I can get this dialed in. I'd rather be loading and shooting than struggling with this.

My two cents worth.
If after baking, if first coat fails smash test, do not coat a second time. It is a total waste, and effort and waste of materials.
Applying a second coat, will not fix badly adhering first coat.
It is simply a re-melt. Sorry but first coat must pass smash test. Subsequent coats will pass if first coat passes smash test.

[HI-TEK]

What I find curious is, that many thousands of hobbyists are coating very successfully and are not struggling.
I also wonder how large scale casters who use these coatings, manage to produce many tens of thousands per day, and don't have smash problems?

[Ausglock]

What I find curious is, that many thousands of hobbyists are coating very successfully and are not struggling.
I also wonder how large scale casters who use these coatings, manage to produce many tens of thousands per day, and don't have smash problems?

It's easy, really. We layout 250 coated bullets per tray under a fan for 30 mins.
Transfer to containers.
Spread bullets from containers onto baking trays.
place trays on top of oven while pervious tray is baking.
insert warmed tray into oven and repeat.
We run 4 ovens in this way, baking 1000 every 12 mins.
We wipe and smash 1 every 1000.

[Stephen Cohen]

I think a lot of the problem comes from what we think is good alloy, just recently I coated some cast for a friend who sweetened his mix with what he thought was Lino Type which turned out to be largely Zinc based or so my acid test showed, the project was a total fail. I also think a lot don't realise that just handling the cast can, and does transfer oil from your skin to cast, or that towel you drop your hot cast onto was the one you wiped your greasy hands on last week. I must say the fails shown by the OP looked to have too much first coating to me and looked very much like the fails I spoke of. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

It's easy, really. We layout 250 coated bullets per tray under a fan for 30 mins.
Transfer to containers.
Spread bullets from containers onto baking trays.
place trays on top of oven while pervious tray is baking.
insert warmed tray into oven and repeat.
We run 4 ovens in this way, baking 1000 every 12 mins.
We wipe and smash 1 every 1000.

Ausglock
It makes sense, and is logical progression.
I am puzzled by people who seem to be struggling, and making small amounts, and ending up with failures.

Stephen, thanks for your input. Your observations are very close to the mark, but also such flaking may also be contributed not only with alloy contamination but insufficient drying. If you examine flaking first coat, if you can see white powder residue on the alloy, this is caused by contaminations in alloy
Drying failures alone, should reveal shiny Lead with no powdery film on surface. If you have a combination of insufficient drying and alloy contamination, then it is easily fixed.
This blog site has repeatedly advised people to check their alloys for contaminations and use of "Mystery alloys". The contaminations in such alloys can cause such adhesion failures.
Many have posted previously with failures, who were not aware that their "alloy" was in fact the cause of their problems.
Once they followed advice given, to acid treat the cast after casting to remove surface contaminations, and dry first coat well, all problems disappeared.
I don't think it is rocket science to check out basic stuff.

[marky123]

I'm off shooting...270126270127

[HI-TEK]

I'm off shooting...270126270127

They look great. Looking forward to your findings after shooting them

[Stephen Cohen]

The up side to it all is that the vast majority who have failures, do in fact take note of advice and have no further problems. Given all the different alloys and mystery metals used by many of us it is only natural a problems will come up pretty often with those new to this coating, the vast majority of us, myself included are tight ---- and are willing to go the extra mile to get a questionable alloy to work, for instance acid wash. I am sure when Joe created this coating he did not envisage the amount of different and often unsuitable alloys that we would use, the fact that most can and do get used with a large degree of success says much for this product. Contamination in any form is not your friend. Regards Stephen

[marky123]

Well...............
Clean bore.I would say 'nice clean bore',but its a Norinco.
270130
First five shots of the last twice coated batch,fired off a rest at 10m
270131
Muzzle shots.Bit of lead hiding there.
270132
Next group,shots 5-10
270133
Muzzle shot.A few streaks,but not a lead mine.
270134
Shots 10-15.Pulled a couple here.
270135
Muzzle.
270136
Then the last shots.15-21,to pull the group back in.
270137
Muzzle action.
270138
270139
Looking down the bore,there is a definite smear of leading down one of the grooves which I will
remove but I'll call this exercise a win.
Tomorrow,3 coats and repeat!

[Stephen Cohen]

Nothing wrong with Norinco in my view, had one before our Socialist loving government decided we could not have them any longer. Nice shooting . Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Have the lead into the rifling checked (also called throat)
My 45 leaded like that until I had it throated. sharp start to the rifling caused it.
no leading after getting it throated.

[Petander]

The up side to it all is that the vast majority who have failures, do in fact take note of advice and have no further problems. Given all the different alloys and mystery metals used by many of us it is only natural a problems will come up pretty often with those new to this coating, the vast majority of us, myself included are tight ---- and are willing to go the extra mile to get a questionable alloy to work, for instance acid wash. I am sure when Joe created this coating he did not envisage the amount of different and often unsuitable alloys that we would use, the fact that most can and do get used with a large degree of success says much for this product. Contamination in any form is not your friend. Regards Stephen



I have Niobium contaminant, it has come from monotype letters that I pre-mixed with tons of WW 20 years ago . At that time I thought we will have an unlimited supply of WW and Mono and Lino...

30% HCL (I use concrete wash) sizzles and makes my silver shiny alloy gray,dark,dull and very good to coat. Otherwise it won't coat even remotely properly. (Is that english?)

Soaking:

https://i.postimg.cc/Zqfdn5xL/IMG-20201020-044155.jpg

Drying after rinse:

https://i.postimg.cc/Vs9b0gg6/IMG-20201020-144237.jpg

Last week's colours,I made 70 lbs of 44's:

https://i.postimg.cc/3x56fKp9/IMG-20201023-120713-086.jpg

[dikman]

Petander, you need some red, white and purple and you'll have a nice Christmas mix for decorating the tree.:D

[Stephen Cohen]

Petander you have come fare and cast some of the prettiest cast, you also need some candy Apple red. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

Petander you have come fare and cast some of the prettiest cast, you also need some candy Apple red. Regards Stephen

https://i.postimg.cc/q7hG4h92/IMG-20201022-004712-809.jpg

[Petander]

The left one was smashed with a 4# hammer on anvil.

https://i.postimg.cc/tTMd6mdm/IMG-20201027-225334-086.jpg

[Petander]

Here is Modified TMG Gold.

I baked 335, 465 and 615 grainers,all mixed in one batch with good results. 11 min @ 190°C.

https://i.postimg.cc/WzSYRRMs/IMG-20201029-095231-050.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/1t3NWL5G/IMG-20201029-101451-337.jpg

[Tazza]

The .22lr looks a little under coated there :)

Results looks great.

[Petander]

The .22lr looks a little under coated there :)

Results looks great.

Thank,yes they are good even with such a weight difference in one batch. TMG is very good and forgiving.

Another main factor is my very rare wind tunnel designed custom tray.

[dikman]

Another main factor is my very rare wind tunnel designed custom tray.
:lol: Not to mention it's very avant-guarde in appearance - functional and yet it has that air of carefully designed indifference.[smilie=1:

[DirtyDusty]

Is letting the bullets stay too long in the oven detrimental? I mean if you get them to temp and they stay another 2 minutes, other than the color getting darker, will it cause coating failure?

[Ausglock]

Is letting the bullets stay too long in the oven detrimental? I mean if you get them to temp and they stay another 2 minutes, other than the color getting darker, will it cause coating failure?

Will not hurt them at all.

[Avenger442]

Is letting the bullets stay too long in the oven detrimental? I mean if you get them to temp and they stay another 2 minutes, other than the color getting darker, will it cause coating failure?

Look at post #13797

[Petander]

Hot dang!

Funny things happen when I trust my memory.

https://i.postimg.cc/m2jDmGG4/IMG-20201104-023748-060.jpg

[Avenger442]

That looks like Tru Blue, right?

[Petander]

That looks like Tru Blue, right?

That is Zombie Green in bad light.

I managed to underbake ZG again... it really is my mystery colour. I get dark overbaked-looking bullets that fail wipe test. They smash good but bake in the barrel.

I should dump all the meters now, stick to the working "dial-200-bake-10 min" -system... I was using four thermoneters last week, trying to optimize colours. Inside bullet,outside bullet, oven in temp mechanical,oven in temp digital,bullet outside IR temp...

Maybe even write down the settings, I went by my memory after half a year baking break. Well it's only 70 lbs of triple coated 44's to melt...

[Petander]

As usual TMG Gold is perfect. Very soft 8-9 BHN lead here.

I can hit that 75 meter bullet trap all day with this mild plinker. Shiny clean barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/d3cDcB4K/IMG-20201104-193723-086.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Hot dang!

Funny things happen when I trust my memory.

https://i.postimg.cc/m2jDmGG4/IMG-20201104-023748-060.jpg

Petander,
It may be not all lost. Have you tried simply re-baking some?
Re-baking will only darken colour a bit more, but this extra time in oven should finish curing.
Have a go and post results

[Petander]

Petander,
It may be not all lost. Have you tried simply re-baking some?
Re-baking will only darken colour a bit more, but this extra time in oven should finish curing.
Have a go and post results

Will do,thanks - I have heat treated some when this happened before. It must be my (Niobium) contaminated alloy reacting differently with ZG,playing tricks. Black is kinda strange too,paint-like,not glossy glass at all.

Look at this beautiful TMG Gold, with the same bake it can take anything including magnum pressures / speed with very soft alloys.

https://i.postimg.cc/m26bpbc7/IMG-20201105-014711-177.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Will do,thanks - I have heat treated some when this happened before. It must be my (Niobium) contaminated alloy reacting differently with ZG,playing tricks. Black is kinda strange too,paint-like,not glossy glass at all.

Look at this beautiful TMG Gold, with the same bake it can take anything including magnum pressures / speed with very soft alloys.

https://i.postimg.cc/m26bpbc7/IMG-20201105-014711-177.jpg


Petander
Thanks for the information.
I am a bit surprised at the Black being less glossy.
This coating is very stable. I have had some reports of it being over baked which caused this loss of Gloss.
The coating "system" has multiple component that will start to reduce gloss a bit with over baking.
Having said that, we have had dark green coating baked for a week and it turned black, but was most accurate ammo.
That TMG Gold certainly seems to be performing well. What sort of speeds are used with Magnum loads? What was alloy hardness?
These results you obtained certainly seems to over turn some traditional thoughts on what can and cannot be done with the coatings.

[Petander]

That TMG Gold certainly seems to be performing well. What sort of speeds are used with Magnum loads? What was alloy hardness?
These results you obtained certainly seems to over turn some traditional thoughts on what can and cannot be done with the coatings.

My BHN is ~13 here, I'm trying to save my WW/Monotype mix stash by cutting it with "range scrap" which is pretty much pure from j-bullets. Three coats of TMG Gold, I bake a little darker than needed to be on the safe side. There are hot & cold spots in my oven.


Plain base bullets.
---------------

This is a 325 grain 500 S&W @ 1700 fps ~50 k psi. One of my favorite 500 loads - that NOE bullet has no grooves, I'm "force crimping" it with a Redding Profile crimp die. That's a 3" barrel. All clean.

https://i.postimg.cc/1z5TKKJr/150820194718.jpg


Here is my 45-70 practise load, RCBS 325 @ 2000 fps. I have fired a bucketful of these, all clean again.

https://i.postimg.cc/Hkt4BDhf/IMG-20181103-170417-878.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/HL2Zc7m8/IMG-20180812-004359-594.jpg

44 mag BHN I can drop below 10 BHN if I keep velocity under 1200 fps or so.

[Tazza]

Nice job, i hope to play around with .300BO in the coming months, see what sort of speed we can get and may need to tinker with a metalic to see if that will help with preventing leading. The idea is to keep them sub sonic, but come on, we all need to push the limits to see what we can get.

Tomorrow, i have a date with about 17,000 125gr conicals and a bottle of K15 black. See if i can get 3 coats on them while casting other sizes i need to do at the same time.

[Stephen Cohen]

Petander your findings of magnum velocity with soft alloy is same as mine, I cut clip on and stick on wheel weights as a 50 50 mix and as you say magnum velocity is fine. I have and do run 357 maximum rifle at 2,400 fps with clip on wheel weight alloy with fine accuracy and no problems. I am in the process of building a 30/357 maximum and also have high hopes for it as well. I have not tried pure soft lead alloy in the maximum as yet but I believe Hi-Tek will help it perform way beyond what one would expect. I have not tried any coated cast smaller than 30 cal as yet, but do have some 32/20 and 25/20 cast done ready to try in my 303 brit and 303/25 to see how fast I can push them. Regards Stephen

[Dsltech1]

270915Will the touch marks like this cause leading? In the light it still looks like there’s resin on the lead just no color. I usually put them aside to remelt. Wonder if I’m waisting my time doing that. The picture isn’t the greatest so it may be hard to see.

[Tazza]

It looks fine to me, i'd still send it. I have not had leading issues with any cast that after sizing, that there were any small sections that had exposed lead, say there was a small bump from a piece of lead being stuck to the side that was removed by the sizing die. Rare to see, but i put them in my pile for play rounds.

[dikman]

Hey Petander, looks like your aim was off a bit with the left side arm of your chrono.:grin:

[Dsltech1]

It looks fine to me, i'd still send it. I have not had leading issues with any cast that after sizing, that there were any small sections that had exposed lead, say there was a small bump from a piece of lead being stuck to the side that was removed by the sizing die. Rare to see, but i put them in my pile for play rounds.

I haven’t had that happen yet. Just the touch marks so far, but I just started casting a few months ago. It’s nice to know I can keep them in the pile!

[Petander]

Hey Petander, looks like your aim was off a bit with the left side arm of your chrono.:grin:

Yes,that was a 22LR almost 20 years ago.

I keep it as a reminder.

[Petander]

Petander your findings of magnum velocity with soft alloy is same as mine.




Both my Marlin and 500 S&W got purchased after I discovered Hi Tek coating. I started casting after a many years break because if this invention. I used to have these calibers earlier.

Casting and shooting coated with these has been ridiculously easy for me. Even the 500 which could use slightly larger cylinder throats is working great.

But there has been some strange things,in addition to the Zombie Green that doesn't like my alloy contaminants. I thought a 458 Socom would be easy with coated,oh man was I wrong. I struggled for a while and then got rid of the Tromix. There was lead everywhere and I tried everything... alloys,expanders,powders... 9 mm is another that never worked for me, it's not really worth loading for here where I live, components cost more than factory ammo... but still, it was impossible for me to get working really good with coated. 45 acp was right on right away...


So I'm not qualified to give expert advise here. But when things go right with Hi Tek it's always amazing.

Correct fit and NOE expanders are a good ticket.

[Stephen Cohen]

Petander, I think you will eventually work out all the problems you may have, I agree 9mm is a dog at times but most of the problems with it are barrel diameter and throat I think. I have payed attention to you since you first started posting and unlike many you never gave, up and you reaped the rewards for efforts. I wish I could learn to post the pictures you and others do. Regards Stephen

[DDriller]

I thought a 458 Socom would be easy with coated,oh man was I wrong. I struggled for a while and then got rid of the Tromix. There was lead everywhere and I tried everything... alloys,expanders,powders

Was your .458 Socom a bolt rifle? I know .458 Socom have a hard time finding any accurate bullet.

[Petander]

Was your .458 Socom a bolt rifle? I know .458 Socom have a hard time finding any accurate bullet.

It was an AR by Tromix. One hole accuracy with 350 FN Hornady... but I've been shooting that same bullet much faster (45-70) since -95 so there was that underpowered feeling with the caliber anyway. No big deal.

About 9mm, I was only interested in subsonic loads. Primer / powder cost makes 9 mm more expensive to load than factory ammo, even with free bullets.

But 9mm was so picky, whenever I got a working load for a certain pistol it never worked for a carbine or abother pistol. Nor the other way round. So instead of spending crazy amounts of time and money,I'm much happier buying my 9 mm ammo. 9 mm is of no priority for me, I prefer bigger.

As a side note,I just bought one pound of Longshot powder for 90€ . That is $100 USD. I don't really need Longshot but the dealer didn't have 3N37 and sold me Longshot... I may never open that record price can, Vihtavuori pound is $70 or so...

[Tazza]

Factory 9mm here from time to time can be dirt cheap, not as cheap as reloads, but it gets pretty close, good for people that don't shoot a lot or have time or interest in reloading. I think i have seen it down to about $15 for 50 rounds.

Naturally, if you want a specific load, you have no choice but to reload.

[ryanmattes]

Around here 9mm used to be $0.17 a round if you bought bulk, which is why I never loaded 9mm before. I couldn't buy components that cheap. With the recent ammo shortage, though, they're up around $0.80 per round now, so now I'm casting and loading 9mm.

It was about $0.05 each loading cast 9mm, but since primers are now pretty much gone, that may kick the price up 7-8 cents per round.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Tazza]

Primers are just under 6c each for winchester small pistol, powder would be 3 or so cents, depending on your load, then the cost of a projectile if you didn't cast your own.

So it really is the way to go if you have access to cheap lead and time to cast it.

[ryanmattes]

A brick of primers used to be $29, so just under 3 cents each. And a pound of powder was $25-$35, depending on the powder, so only 1-2 cents for a 3-4 grain charge. The expensive part was always the bullets themselves, ~15-20 cents each, and of course brass if you had to buy it.

I could always get factory 9mm for 17-20 cents per round, so I didn't even bother collecting the brass. It was actually more expensive to load.

But now a brick of primers is $100, if you can find them at all. Powder hasn't gone up more than a few $/lb so far, but I haven't seen bullets in stock anywhere in months. At this point it's not even about cost so much as availability.

It's just coincidence that I started casting recently, so when I finally started loading 9mm, I just started out with cast.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Petander]

"Cheap" is a bad word when it comes to anything guns related.

Life is just too short for messing up with bad stuff anyway,guns or not.

[Avenger442]

Would you accept the word thrifty?:bigsmyl2:

Went to the range to test the latest of the loaded Hi Tek. I was going for the 200 yard and it was full for the whole time I was there. I'm going to have to take something else to do when I go to the range. This mistakenly called election by the media has doubled the numbers at the range. Even the 25 yard range was full the whole time I was there.

[Petander]

Mean Mr. Bean Green.

https://i.postimg.cc/pXFHT7cp/IMG-20201112-225737-950.jpg

TMG Gold with 25% Tru Blu. Approx. one minute too long in 10°C too hot. Just to be on the safe side with my alloy.

[HI-TEK]

Mean Mr. Bean Green.

https://i.postimg.cc/pXFHT7cp/IMG-20201112-225737-950.jpg

TMG Gold with 25% Tru Blu. Approx. one minute too long in 10°C too hot. Just to be on the safe side with my alloy.


They look great. What ever method you adopted seems to be working well.
Keep up the good work.

[Petander]

They look great. What ever method you adopted seems to be working well.
Keep up the good work.

Thank you. A tough and durable coating,yes.

Surprisingly, my basic method is as instructed, 10 min in 200°C. :)

I went over the top with all the analyzing and ended up with incompletely cured bullets so I dumped my (four) thermometers and returned to KISS.


https://i.postimg.cc/rFf5htn5/IMG-20201113-080259-090.jpg

I do turn the tray @ 5 min now, like Ausglock is doing.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you. A tough and durable coating,yes.

Surprisingly, my basic method is as instructed, 10 min in 200°C. :)

I went over the top with all the analyzing and ended up with incompletely cured bullets so I dumped my (four) thermometers and returned to KISS.


https://i.postimg.cc/rFf5htn5/IMG-20201113-080259-090.jpg

I do turn the tray @ 5 min now, like Ausglock is doing.



Unfortunately many try to over analyze the coating technique.
I wonder how it became a revelation or something like that, why they now ended up call it "Simple Hi-Tek"
As I said, what you are doing is just great.

[Stephen Cohen]

Petander, have you ever used those H/Ps on game, I have a feeling one would have to vacuum up the meat after, but they do look really nice. The last few times I have used my oven I have had to crank up the temp and time to get a good bake, I think its time I got a new oven, but after 6 years and a cost of $15 I think it has done well. Regards Stephen

[dikman]

I find it's often tempting to get too involved with the intricacies of something and try to improve it. In the case of the Hi-Tek coating I've found 200C @ 10 mins. gives me consistent results, as long as I use thin coats, so no need to change what I'm doing. I did make up a boolit with a temp. probe inside as I was curious what was happening on the tray but it merely confirmed that my "system" was working (which I already knew).

[Petander]

I did make up a boolit with a temp. probe inside as I was curious what was happening on the tray

Me too and my curiosity killed the coating.

My probe reads up to 215°C at the end of bake while oven dial and two different oven meters read 200... so I went by the "actual bullet temp" and ended up with raw bullets. Been there before. IR gives another,different reading.


But this is a dead horse,sorry,let's not go there again.

[ryanmattes]

Made a batch of .45 colt in red copper. I think they're a little darker than they're supposed to be, but they passed the smash test with flying colors, so now I just need to go shoot them.

I did take a throwback and drill a hole in the bottom, and the probe I put in there lets you set a temp and an alarm goes off when it reaches that temp, but really all it did was give me a heads up when the oven timer was about to go off. Didn't change my cook at all.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/d6f05f9f1b6ae0a5f6e25a598d30a740.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/726a50c3a23d39503ac43b63f8f92fed.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[HI-TEK]

Made a batch of .45 colt in red copper. I think they're a little darker than they're supposed to be, but they passed the smash test with flying colors, so now I just need to go shoot them.

I did take a throwback and drill a hole in the bottom, and the probe I put in there lets you set a temp and an alarm goes off when it reaches that temp, but really all it did was give me a heads up when the oven timer was about to go off. Didn't change my cook at all.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/d6f05f9f1b6ae0a5f6e25a598d30a740.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/726a50c3a23d39503ac43b63f8f92fed.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

ryanmattes
These look great. A little over cooked but not a problem. They should work just fine

[Ausglock]

Ryan... My very first coated bullets back in 2012 was with the liquid coating red Copper.
They looked just like yours.. a bit on the dark side.
https://i.imgur.com/2xeu93E.jpg
But once I got everything dialed in, the colour came to the correct Red copper colour.

Keep going, mate. you are doing good.

[SweetMk]

I think they're a little darker than they're supposed to be, but they passed the smash test with flying colors,,,,,,,,,,,

I did take a throwback and drill a hole in the bottom, and the probe I put in there lets you set a temp and an alarm goes off when it reaches that temp, but really all it did was give me a heads up when the oven timer was about to go off.

Hmmmmmmmm,, I would have to think about that thermocouple inside of a bullet thing,,,,,,,,,

Compare that to your home,,
put your heat pump (or gas furnace, for you Northerners!!) thermostat inside the turned off oven, in the kitchen.

Now, the heat is gonna stay on, until the inside of the oven comes up to the temperature the thermostat is calling for,
If you have a real good heat pump, or gas furnace, the home air temperature might hit 90 degrees, before that furnace thermostat reaches 72 degrees.
The same thing on cool down, the inside of the oven will stay way warmer than the air, while the thermostat is cooling down enough for the furnace to turn on again. Heck, your home air temperature might go down to 55 degrees, waiting for the inside of your oven temperature to drop low enough to get the furnace thermostat to come on, calling for heat, again.
I can guarantee the comfortable temp that your skin is expecting will WAY overshoot.

All you have to do to make your home uncomfortable temperature-wise, is to locate the thermostat near the ceiling, or the floor.
put the sensor for your home heat source thermostat inside a small block of lead,, you will be calling the HVAC guy, because everyone will think the furnace (heat pump) is broken.
A modern thermostat that is digital uses a thermocouple virtually identical to the thermocouple used by the PID to monitor the home air temperature.

Another example: in our kitchen, the cabinets are mounted on a north facing exterior wall.
That wall behind the cabinets is well insulated,.
In the winter, the dishes in that cabinet can easily be 20 degrees colder than the kitchen air temp, if the cabinet door is closed.
If it is real cold outside, we try to remember to open the cabinet 20 minutes, or more before dinner, so the dishes are not too cold.

If that same cabinet has a water pipe in it, the pipe can easily freeze, if the cabinet door is closed.
A frozen pipe it WAY colder than the surface temp of the cabinet,, just because there is little heat transfer into the cabinet.
I lived near Boston for a couple years, I remember the radio weather announcers reminding its listeners to leave the cabinet doors open on real cold nights,, so the pipes would not freeze..
(do the weather guys still remind you of that??)

The actual air temperature that the paint is being exposed to is way more important than the inside of the bullet.

There are three ways heat moves, conduction, convection and radiation.

1) Until you are at a temperature close to where you can see the metal glowing,
little heat is transferred by radiation (~1,000 degrees F)

2) Unless the object that is changing temp is in direct large surface contact with the higher temp source of heat, there is little heat transferred by conduction.

3) that leaves us with convection,, we are depending exclusively on heat transfer by air moving past the bullet, giving up heat.
If the bullet is sitting on a solid tray, silicone mat, or parchment paper, the convection heat transfer is reduced.

All of this boils down to the inside of the bullet being at a lower temperature, than the surface, where the paint coating is.

One other thing,, lead is a poor conductor of heat,, near these painting temperatures, lead only conducts heat at 1/10 the rate of copper.
So, the lead is kinda acting like insulation.

I do not know how much overshoot of temperature it takes to darken the paint,,
but, I would bet money the surface of the bullet is always at a higher temperature, than the center of the bullet, while the oven power is on.

[Ausglock]

good post.
However..
When I first started testing with imbedded probes, I had 3 probes.
One drilled into the centre of a 45cal bullet from the base to the center. the second one drilled through the same bullet, diagonally from one side to just below the surface of the opposong side. the probe was .5mm from breaking through. The 3rd probe was attached to the exterior of the bullet with fine wire. this had the tip of the probe parrallel to the bullet surface.
Oven was pre-warmed to 200 Deg C and was cycling via the PID. temp swing was 200 to 205Deg C.
2 trays of bullets (5KG)combined were inserted with the test bullet in the centre of the top tray.

Once the oven returned to set temp and started to cycle, there was only a 3deg C variance between all 3 attached probes.
3 deg C variance over the 7.5minute bake time is no issue to the coating colour.
My oven is a converted wall oven.

[Petander]

I quit all probes and meters and went back to slight overbake with good results. My alloy likes it.

https://i.postimg.cc/wMHt6hPV/IMG-20201119-212539-344.jpg

[Petander]

I can drive my car with an automatic transmission without analyzing every tiny little thing happening in the transmission itself. I don't want every possible gauge and meter down there.

Yep that's a good analogy.

[dikman]

While it's interesting to try and understand the fine details of a process, the bottom line is once you have a system in place that works for you (and is repeatable) then why waste any more time on it. In my case I don't exactly follow the "rules" but it works for me. A small non-convection oven, I weigh the boolits to be coated but I don't measure the coating, just give a squirt into the bucket and swirl, dry in the sun - if it's out, if not dry on top of the oven - then 10 mins@200C. Done quite a few 1,000 with minimal problems.:smile: Sticking a probe in a boolit in the oven was interesting but didn't change anything.

[kevin c]

But some of us LIKE over analyzing the process and tweaking the parameters...

Yeah, there's a limit to that though. I'm fine if my Black Cherry, Brick Red and Kryptonite Green are a little dark from a longer or hotter bake. It's just the Tru Blu I'd like to get right, and it seems a bit more tricky.

Maybe if Donny starts to carry it, I'll try the latest blue that Trevor posted a little while ago. Standard instructions for that one, IIRC.

[Petander]

Another way to get dark bullets is to add some black.

https://i.postimg.cc/bvJd2LpW/IMG-20201122-121431-387.jpg

[ioon44]

I like the color I get with Gold 1035 and Black mixed 50/50, I don't know if this is what is called Texas Tea but it looks good.

[Petander]

I like the color I get with Gold 1035 and Black mixed 50/50, I don't know if this is what is called Texas Tea but it looks good.

My black is a mystery ratio bottle... I forgot a bottle with the cap open for several months so there was a dry,hard black thing in the bottom. It is slowly melting back in acetone now.

[kevin c]

My black is a mystery ratio bottle... I forgot a bottle with the cap open for several months so there was a dry,hard black thing in the bottom. It is slowly melting back in acetone now.
Maybe I'm just not patient enough, but I have never been able to get such settled out solids to redissolve well enough to be usable; too many floating clumps and bits jam the nozzles on my squeeze bottles and syringes, and if they get through, make for blotchy coating, and that's with a shaker bullet or two in the bottle to speed the mixing.

I know that Trevor has stored mixes for months refrigerated and reported no problems using them. Is cold storage in the dark the secret? I've had capped bottles of mix kept outdoors in temps ranging from the 40's to the low 80's with variable sun exposure and got clumping. This was only 10 grams per hundred cc acetone, BTW. Other mixes kept in my basement, made up at the same time, were fine.

I coat in big batches infrequently. Unless I can fine the right storage conditions, I'm beginning to lean towards Joe's recommendation to just mix fresh each time.

[Petander]

My 10g / 100 ml bottles are in room temp and stay fine if I shake them every now and then. I think six months is about the limit shelf time here.

I'm not trying to save all the lumpy stuff but there's not much really. I might actually combine it all and wait... now that we're talking about it.

[Ausglock]

G'day Everyone.
Just to let everyone know.
Joe is in Newcastle Hospital with health issues.
I rang him today and he sounded terrible.

So please offer a prayer for him, to whatever God you believe in.

[kevin c]

Thanks for letting us know, Trevor.

Thoughts and prayers.

[Warhead]

All the best hopes and prayers for ya Mr. Joe!

[Michael J. Spangler]

We will be praying for him!

[ioon44]

Yes I pray for Joe to be healed, by His stripes we are healed I ask this in Jesus Name. Amen.

[Petander]

Oh no.

Thoughts and prayers,been there,been repaired.

I coated a 250 tray of 44's with old TMG and another tray with New Modified TMG today and can't see any difference in artificial light. In daylight there is a little difference in brightness.

https://i.postimg.cc/rFj3G37f/IMG-20201125-215151-549.jpg

[Tazza]

He can't catch a break, i hope they have him fixed up in no time.

I don't have his digits or i'd send him my best wishes too.

Get better soon buddy.

[dikman]

Damn. That's no good. Hope he gets better.

[Stephen Cohen]

I pray for his recovery, the two times I have spoken to him I found him to be top bloke, I know he finds the banter he gets from Trevor rather entertaining. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Just heard.
The old Coot isn't as bad as he made out.
Don't go sending him flowers, He'll only re-sell them on eBay...

[Tazza]

Just heard.
The old Coot isn't as bad as he made out.
Don't go sending him flowers, He'll only re-sell them on eBay...

He is just after sympathy hey?

Glad to hear he isn't as bad as first thought, hope he getshis butt out of there as soon as he can, they keep trying to do him in.

[OldBearHair]

See. The prayers worked. "Have faith in God, He's on His Throne Have Faith in God He watches over His own He will not fail He will prevail Have Faith in God Have Faith in God." from the song Have Faith in God.

[kevin c]

Glad to hear he's not so bad.

Despite extra staff precautions on PPE and general hygiene, hospitals are still where there's the greatest exposure to the nastiest infections, and I'm not just talking about COVID. Joe should hie his venerable fanny out of there as soon as he's well enough.

[Petander]

Heart problems are complicated.

You should feel good and live healthy at the same time. I was healthy and ok but for some reason I quit booze and cigarettes -and got a heart attack within two years at 53.

It's been four years now with full medication A-fib etc. At first it was scary.

Heart problems make you to re-value things, you will get no pre-alarm for a problem.

[dikman]

That's good news Trev. Petander, when we have reasonably good health we tend to take things for granted, but it's worrying how many can suddenly develop a heart condition (younger people too). It makes my busted up ankle seem rather trivial in the scheme of things.

[wlkjr]

Just an FYI for those in the US. I called earlier this week to order some Black K15 since I didn't see it on the website. Someone other than Donnie answered the phone. I think his name was Alan but my memory is not so good. He said Donnie had sold him the business and that Donnie was retiring to do some fishing and such. Alan was very nice and I think will carry on successfully. He was low on some colors and expecting a shipment soon. I really like the K15 and it's the one I use the most. I cooked about 1200 .45ACP this week using the black. I also use Black Cherry on the .45's that I load a little hotter for my G21.
I'm really glad this stuff is so easy to use. I cook mine in a convection toaster oven which usually runs 400-425F for around 13 minutes. I haven't encountered any problems whatsoever with my process.

[Stephen Cohen]

Just heard.
The old Coot isn't as bad as he made out.
Don't go sending him flowers, He'll only re-sell them on eBay...

I wonder if our Yank mates will ever understand Aussie humour, I see now why Joe gets a laugh out of your comments. Regards Stephen

[marky123]

272197
272198
272200
272199
Howdy
Another day,another try.
These are cast 10mm about bhn11.
The coating was 2.5ml for 1100g/2.25lbs ,air dried over 2 days.
Oven temp was 190-200c PID and coating was 200-220C IR gun.
Wipe test was good but smash test flaked and the fingernail test scraped it off.
What causes that?

[dikman]

When that happened to me it was because I had applied too thick a coating. Could also be impurities in the lead or something contaminating the surface prior to coating. I find it's a good idea to pre-warm the batch before putting in the oven.

[Stephen Cohen]

marky123, if that is the first coat, I would suggest it is way too much coating on first coat. Best results will be obtained with a slight stain on first coat, after the first coat dries it is ok to use heavier coats. Think of first coat as an etch primer only, that following coats stick too. Regards Stephen

[marky123]

Righto thanks

[Petander]

Marky, what is your alloy exactly?

I had similar results with contaminated (Nb) alloy.

Now I'm good. This thread is full of HCL wash.

https://i.postimg.cc/JhzcrFNP/IMG-20201128-213910-228.jpg

[marky123]

Marky, what is your alloy exactly?

I had similar results with contaminated (Nb) alloy.

Now I'm good. This thread is full of HCL wash.

https://i.postimg.cc/JhzcrFNP/IMG-20201128-213910-228.jpg

Hi Petander

This is a mixture of range scrap and wheelweights.

Could be anything in there!

MARK

[Petander]

Hi Petander

This is a mixture of range scrap and wheelweights.

Could be anything in there!

MARK

So why are you doing this? Wasting everybody else's time.

[marky123]

So why are you doing this? Wasting everybody else's time.

still trying to make it work,thanks.
Could you scrape your failed coating off with a fingernail too?

[dikman]

I could with mine. It would be worth putting a few cast into Hydrochloric Acid just to see if there is any reaction.

[marky123]

I could with mine. It would be worth putting a few cast into Hydrochloric Acid just to see if there is any reaction.

I'll try that.Does the acid indicate and neutralize the contaminant?

[Stephen Cohen]

I'll try that.Does the acid indicate and neutralize the contaminant?

The acid will etch the surface contaminants if present, I have found that the acid does not always show a real reaction right away, but left for several hours or overnight the cast will turn dark and have a slightly rough etched surface. You must wash cast well after, and I actually do so in a bucket with some Bicarbonate Soda to kill acid. I use a 2 to 1 mix of water to acid myself if I must do the acid etch. I use a lot of wheel weights and sort by hand, I have found at least 5 different types of metal in the weights, not including zinc and steel and only 3 are usable. I find range scrap better at my range as many shoot commercial made cast. Regards Stephen

[marky123]

But you coated the cast successfully after the acid wash?

[Tazza]

But you coated the cast successfully after the acid wash?

He sure did, it makes for a very good surface to bind with for him. Make sure all traces of acid are gone and are dry before coating.

[Stephen Cohen]

But you coated the cast successfully after the acid wash?

Like Tazza Said, make sure to remove all traces of acid by washing well and dry cast well before coating. This method will make most questionable alloy usable but you still must make that first coat very light, in fact it should look as if it barely has any on it. Follow this grasshopper and the stares will align for you. Regards Stephen.

[Petander]

All that information about mystery alloys and Acid Wash is right here in this thread,many times. Why does it have to be posted over and over again?

https://i.postimg.cc/TP9RmwbT/FB-IMG-1606507731962.jpg

[kevin c]

Says the man in reply #13,952... ;^].

You know, I just found the "search thread" function that's fairly good at winnowing down the results. Before I used the "advanced search" general search function in the main tool bar, that wouldn't get me any closer than the whole thread. The "search thread" function doesn't appear until you're in the thread proper.

[Petander]

Says the man in reply #13,952... ;^].


Yes. I read the whole thread before I started.

[kevin c]

As did I, twice, and uphill both ways!

I actually did read it twice, and, before finding the search thread function, conscientiously wrote down post numbers so I could find my way back to the good stuff.

If it only takes a half second to scan a post, it'd still take nearly two hours to go through the whole thread. Actually reading each post would take more than a day straight.

[Warhead]

How is Mr. Joe doing? Out of the hospital yet?

[Ausglock]

How is Mr. Joe doing? Out of the hospital yet?

Not yet... Was talking to him on friday.

[Warhead]

I found a bottle of dark blue that was mixxed about a year or a little more ago. Put some acetone in the bottle shook it a lot and everything seemed to mix back up o.k.ish
3 coats on some reject h&g34s. Mold had a bur making it not close all the way so these are headed to the remelt pot, but passes wipe and smash test. Very dark green color. Baked at 393f (200c for those living upside down:-P ) for 10 minutes.

[Ausglock]

Joe has sent 2 new colours.
A new Blue and a new Purple.
Will be caoting with them over the next few days.
Watch this space...

[kevin c]

Barely a week out of hospital.

The man must have passion...

[Tazza]

Good to hear he managed to get out of there on his own two feet, going straight back to work.....

[HI-TEK]

Good to hear he managed to get out of there on his own two feet, going straight back to work.....

Thanks Tazza,
In fact I got out yesterday afternoon and am feeling much better.
Some colour samples were made before I became ill.
I have a new Blue to make up for testing. I will have to get to it when I can, as the many orders that came in whilst I was in Hospital need to be sent.

To all who sent me get well messages, I really appreciated those, and had lifted my spirit.
Thank you all for kind considerations.

[Tazza]

Glad you are feeling better, heart issues are no joke, i lost my cousin at 40 from it, he didn't listen to the warning signs.

Make sure you take things easy.

Looking forward to seeing the new colours.

[HI-TEK]

Glad you are feeling better, heart issues are no joke, i lost my cousin at 40 from it, he didn't listen to the warning signs.

Make sure you take things easy.

Looking forward to seeing the new colours.


Thanks Tazza,

My heart problems are now over.
It needed doing some 25 years ago.
At that time, I opted to run on medication but that became totally ineffective so I had no other choice but surgery. All good now.
I am taking things very steady, as my extensive hospital stays over last 5 months really turned me into a weak as jelly situation. I am slowly trying to build up my strength.
I have help with things to try and catch up with masses of orders that came during my absence.
Ausglock may have a couple to post if he has had a chance to do them. I will try to fit in any new coloured coating samples as possible.
With severe rain and about 3 foot of rain and floods in parts of northern NSW, he could be worrying about his place being washed away. Must catch up with him.
I hope he and his family is OK.

[Stephen Cohen]

Glad to see you back Joe. As we get on in years we tent to find out how fragile life is. Back in 2004 I had a kidney removed due to cancer, now bugger me but two days ago I find the blood I was passing is a cancer in the bladder, but prognosis is very good and I'm not ready to cash my chips yet. Too many bullets to coat and a gran son who wants to go hunting with Pop. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

Glad to see you back Joe. As we get on in years we tent to find out how fragile life is. Back in 2004 I had a kidney removed due to cancer, now bugger me but two days ago I find the blood I was passing is a cancer in the bladder, but prognosis is very good and I'm not ready to cash my chips yet. Too many bullets to coat and a gran son who wants to go hunting with Pop. Regards Stephen

Thanks for your kind reply.
It is not good news but hope that all works out. They can do marvelous things now and improving.
Funny thing is, I have had great health until 5 months ago when things went belly up.
I have had my children and grandchildren get all normal things like Mumps Measles, Chicken pox and I have never had any of them and never got infected by my grandkids.
The only thing I got about a year and a half ago was the Asian Flu type 2. I have no idea from where I got it. I am a bit of a hermit.
That could have wiped me out. But I fought it off. It took months to regain my strength.
We are very isolated and have very little contact with people directly, so we were reasonably able to minimize Covid contact possibility.
Even now we take all precautions, and not take any risks.
Strange thing is that 5 months ago all of this hit me out of the blue. Doctors were totally bewildered unable to find cause or why.

[Tazza]

Glad to see you back Joe. As we get on in years we tent to find out how fragile life is. Back in 2004 I had a kidney removed due to cancer, now bugger me but two days ago I find the blood I was passing is a cancer in the bladder, but prognosis is very good and I'm not ready to cash my chips yet. Too many bullets to coat and a gran son who wants to go hunting with Pop. Regards Stephen

I wish you all the best Stephen, doctors are very good these days, we need your help to keep Ausglock in line, you aren't allowed to go anywhere just yet.

We had loads of rain up here too, not as bad as northern NSW, we didn't wash away, as it was steady and not all hitting at once, plus pur house is on a hill, so it would need to get real bad to be washed away :)

Down time really doesn't take lone to leave you weak, sadly what takes a month to loose, takes a lot longer to re-gain.....

I'll give it a few weeks before i order, you have enough of a back log as it is.

[Stephen Cohen]

Thanks for the well wishes guys, I'm not leaving this world till I make good on my promise to take gran son Buff hunting in NT, which was to be 2 months back. Thanks Wuhan Flu. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

The borders are now back open, but now the wet season is upon us, and no one wants to be in the NT during summer

[Stephen Cohen]

The borders are now back open, but now the wet season is upon us, and no one wants to be in the NT during summer

There is always next year, and the red deer will be coming into roar soon. Regards Stephen

[Petander]

In fact I got out yesterday afternoon and am feeling much better.

Welcome back,Sir!

[HI-TEK]

Welcome back,Sir!



Thank you much. It is greatly appreciated.

[Warhead]

Thanks Tazza,

My heart problems are now over.
It needed doing some 25 years ago.
At that time, I opted to run on medication but that became totally ineffective so I had no other choice but surgery. All good now.
I am taking things very steady, as my extensive hospital stays over last 5 months really turned me into a weak as jelly situation. I am slowly trying to build up my strength.
I have help with things to try and catch up with masses of orders that came during my absence.
Ausglock may have a couple to post if he has had a chance to do them. I will try to fit in any new coloured coating samples as possible.
With severe rain and about 3 foot of rain and floods in parts of northern NSW, he could be worrying about his place being washed away. Must catch up with him.
I hope he and his family is OK.

I am glad to hear your doing better! Now get back to work ya old grouch!! :p
All the best from the other side of the pond.
Warhead

[HI-TEK]

I am glad to hear your doing better! Now get back to work ya old grouch!! :p
All the best from the other side of the pond.
Warhead



Warhead
I agree with the "grouch".
Aside from hear repair, which all OK now, previously, 5 months of pain, suffering and being also tortured by quacks, without finding cause made me wild.
Now may be there is an answer discovered by a highly dedicated specialist, who has taken on the challenge, and was determined to find answers. I don't know how many other specialists he contacted, but quite a few, to discuss what my symptoms were. Eventually, one had suggested an answer.
They seem to have it under control now.
At very minimum, I am out of hospital and doing OK.

[kevin c]

Good to see you're back, better than ever, Joe. I'm glad you found a doc who went the extra mile for you. Take from a retired MD: that, sadly, is getting rarer.

[HI-TEK]

I wish all a happy and prosperous and healthy 2021. It certainly has been a trying 2020. It has to improve.
Merry Christmas and a happy and joyful new year to all.


To be politically correct, below is my balanced wishes so I don't offend any one.

Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others who choose to practice their own religion as well as those who choose not to practice a religion at all;


Additionally,
a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year 2020, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without regard to the race, creed, color, religious, or sexual preferences of the wishes.

(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.

[HI-TEK]

Good to see you're back, better than ever, Joe. I'm glad you found a doc who went the extra mile for you. Take from a retired MD: that, sadly, is getting rarer.

Thanks Kevin c
What surprised me, that after I told him what was done to me by other doctors, this doctor said I am embarrassed and ashamed of these doctors conduct and actions. He apologized on their behalf. This really surprised me, but realized, that he was a fair dinkum and conscientious doctor who really cares about his patients. Thereafter he went well outside his expertise with trying to help me. Previously, I have never had such a doctor do that. I think I was very lucky to get treated by him. He left no stone unturned and had 24 hour watch on me by nurses and requested detailed observations which he read and acted upon.

[Ausglock]

Ha...
Happy Birthday, Jesus.
That is all.

Bugger-off 2020
You better be bloody on your best behaviour, 2021.
out.

[Stephen Cohen]

Merry Christmas to all and a happy new year. One can see that Joe has been around Ausglock for too long with that blessing. Regards and best wishes Stephen

[Tazza]

Soooooooooooo.....

I had some spare time between cooking, coating and casting over the last few days, i have been asked how thick hi-tek actually is by a mad mate, i really wasn't sure, i heard a thou per coat, but never knew for sure. I had some spare cast, coated and sized .3575 K15 projectiles that were coated in K15, the decision was made to make them a different colour to keep it easier to work out what is .3565 and what is .3575. I had some mixed 122 red so i figured, why not see just how much it adds to the diameter of a known sized projectile, not rough cast that has vairations. I had a little over 1,000 sized projectiles that i know were spot on .3575 so i set about adding 3 more layers of 122 red, measuring with my trusty chinese micrometer. First coat came out after cooking at .358, second coat was .3585 third cost was a bees doodle under .3590.

I'm coating 500 x 125 grain conicals without lube grooves with 5ml of coating per batch, it my be more, it may be less than you're using, but it works very well for me with this recipe. I have a plastic jar i fill up, this goes in my shaking bucket with 5ml and i do my little shaking dance and dump out on a sheet of laminated MDF to dry then bake.

So, with those figures, each coat with that amount of hi-tek applied gives a diameter increase of .0005" .00025 per side (have i got those decimal places in the right spot for half a thou? and a quarter thou?).

I'm sure i'll hear that you never coat a sized projectile, well, i have, these bad boys now have 6 layers of hi-tek, they will now be indestructible!

Enjoy your christmas boys and girls, stay safe with family gatherings with the beer bug out there.

[wlkjr]

I'm sure i'll hear that you never coat a sized projectile, well, i have, these bad boys now have 6 layers of hi-tek, they will now be indestructible!

Enjoy your christmas boys and girls, stay safe with family gatherings with the beer bug out there.
If I'm not mistaken, you shouldn't coat a raw bullet that has been sized first. I have done one coat, then sized, then done another coat, with much success.

[Tazza]

I generally don't size before coating, but I have done the same, coat once then size, then more coats on stubborn over sized moulds.

[kevin c]

Good numbers to know on the thickness of a coat of HiTek. I assume standard mix of 20 grams per 100 ml acetone, and the 5 ml coated about 2.5 kg? Sorry, I don't recall, is that a metallic you used?

Thanks, Tazza, and a merry Christmas to you. Don't get sunburned down there!

Merry Xmas and happy New Year to all!

[HI-TEK]

Good numbers to know on the thickness of a coat of HiTek. I assume standard mix of 20 grams per 100 ml acetone, and the 5 ml coated about 2.5 kg? Sorry, I don't recall, is that a metallic you used?

Thanks, Tazza, and a merry Christmas to you. Don't get sunburned down there!

Merry Xmas and happy New Year to all!

Kevin C
I am wondering if any one knows thickness of Copper Jackets and Copper plating?
Just curious...

[ASSASSIN]

The thickness of Copper Jackets can vary from .004 to .030 or even a little bit more in a few exceptions, depending on the caliber and the bullets construction.

Copper plating!?!? I have no earthly idea!

[Stephen Cohen]

I know copper jackets vary a great deal and can't really be considered anything like Hi-Tek, and copper coated cast are about as useless as teets on a bull in my view. I will stick to Hi-Tek that works and leaves my barrels lead free. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

Good numbers to know on the thickness of a coat of HiTek. I assume standard mix of 20 grams per 100 ml acetone, and the 5 ml coated about 2.5 kg? Sorry, I don't recall, is that a metallic you used?

Thanks, Tazza, and a merry Christmas to you. Don't get sunburned down there!

Merry Xmas and happy New Year to all!

It will be about 4.2 to 4.5 kg for 500.

It's indeed warm here, I'll try not to be cooked to a crisp :)

[Ausglock]

Joe..
Remember I gave you the measurements for copper plated thicknesses a few years ago.

[DDriller]

Kevin C
I am wondering if any one knows thickness of Copper Jackets and Copper plating?
Just curious...

The Corbin cups I have for 10mm are .014

[kevin c]

It will be about 4.2 to 4.5 kg for 500

You did say that in your first post. That's what I get for trying to speed read.

So, maybe a bit thicker on mine, using around 2.5 kg batches with a mix that delivers the equivalent of a ml per 500 grams of 20/100.

[Petander]

I think the repeatable thin coating is one reason for good accuracy with Hi Tek.

https://i.postimg.cc/QdRBZwqX/IMG-20201225-150716-344.jpg

[Ausglock]

Interesting observation today.
I was mixing a few jars of Kryptonite green for a large coating session today.
I mixed 40gms to 200mls of Acetone.
and 40gms to 200mls of MEK.

After coating with the acetone mix, the first bake bullets were light and bright.
The first coat and bake with the MEK mix was noticabley darker.

Did the second coat/bake and the difference was still noticable under the LED lights in my shed.
I took both trays of bullets out into the daylight and they looked exaclty the same.
I wonder why they looked different under the LED lights???

Happy New Year to all the casters out there.

[HI-TEK]

Interesting observation today.
I was mixing a few jars of Kryptonite green for a large coating session today.
I mixed 40gms to 200mls of Acetone.
and 40gms to 200mls of MEK.

After coating with the acetone mix, the first bake bullets were light and bright.
The first coat and bake with the MEK mix was noticeably darker.

Did the second coat/bake and the difference was still noticeable under the LED lights in my shed.
I took both trays of bullets out into the daylight and they looked exactly the same.
I wonder why they looked different under the LED lights???

Happy New Year to all the casters out there.



I think you have been sniffing too much solvent.
How can colors change with changing light sources?

I suspect that MEK has divided particles much more evenly and despite that the natural colour should have remained the same. The LED's may show up particles size differences more, giving a different apparent colour.

[Tazza]

I think you have been sniffing too much solvent.
How can colors change with changing light sources?

I suspect that MEK has divided particles much more evenly and despite that the natural colour should have remained the same. The LED's may show up particles size differences more, giving a different apparent colour.

I second the sniffing too much solvent :)

I have been doing a lot of casting (a lot for me at least 60 odd thousand) the last week too, more time than i'd like sniffing acetone fumes. Glad it's not MEK, that stuff is nasty, i wonder if it indeed did suspnd the pigment differently or if it just made the polymer part slightly different that shows up under different LED lights

[Stephen Cohen]

I think you have been sniffing too much solvent.
How can colors change with changing light sources?

I suspect that MEK has divided particles much more evenly and despite that the natural colour should have remained the same. The LED's may show up particles size differences more, giving a different apparent colour.

God to see your getting your own back on Ausglock Joe, It beats piddling against the wind. Happy Ne Year to all. Regards Stephen

[Burnt Fingers]

I think you have been sniffing too much solvent.
How can colors change with changing light sources?

I suspect that MEK has divided particles much more evenly and despite that the natural colour should have remained the same. The LED's may show up particles size differences more, giving a different apparent colour.

Never took physics???

Since color is based on the light that's reflected from the item different light sources can affect color by not having certain wavelengths in the source.

[Petander]

I like this australian wine,especially with a roast beef dark rye bread sandwich... but who is this man?

https://i.postimg.cc/MHwW8gRS/IMG-20210101-221324.jpgu

[Ausglock]

19 crimes is actually the 19 crimes that would get a convict transported to the penal colony of Australia back in the 19th century.
England used Australia asa dumping ground for convicted felons.
the 19 crimes could be as little as stealing a slice of bread to as much as murder.

[Stephen Cohen]

My ex wife was doing a family tree and found her relatives were sent To Australia for stealing a loaf of bread and a watch, I told her it did not surprise me as I had met her family, she did not take that as a joke and suggested I should check my family background. Imagine her surprise when we found my relative was the prison guard on the very ship her relative was transported on. I can say I did get a few giggles in before the divorce. Regards Stephen

[Tazza]

My ex wife was doing a family tree and found her relatives were sent To Australia for stealing a loaf of bread and a watch, I told her it did not surprise me as I had met her family, she did not take that as a joke and suggested I should check my family background. Imagine her surprise when we found my relative was the prison guard on the very ship her relative was transported on. I can say I did get a few giggles in before the divorce. Regards Stephen

HEHE that is gold, people without a sense of humor are boring.