simple Hi-Tek coating

[Jatz357]

Ausglock’s idea is great. That’s all I used for ages, my old fan heater is flat with a rectangle opening and I made up a shroud that covered the tray and directed the air better. 10 to 15 minutes is heaps unless you’ve used too much coating.

[Gatch]

Might look into it.. Cheers Trev

[Tazza]

Isn't failing wipe test due to not baking long enough? Failing smash test was cooking before they had time to dry or they have some moisture trapped in them?

On dry days, i generally leave them an hour or so, when they feel dry, i break them up to allow the bottom part if it was still wet to dry. They are generally still a bit wet, as with gloves on, rolling them around you get little dots of hitek on your gloves.

I do mine different to the other guys, i have a sheet of melamine that i use to dry my coated projectiles on, i don't have enough trays to allow them to dry in them, but hey, it works for me. I shake then dump put on a home made table made of a 1.2m x 2.4m sheet of melamine. It means more double handling, but it gets the job done for me.

When there is too much coating on the surface, i get into it with acetone and a rag, cleans it right up.

[Gatch]

Isn't failing wipe test due to not baking long enough? Failing smash test was cooking before they had time to dry or they have some moisture trapped in

I had wondered this. I struggled to stop the coating going dark at 190C. So I dropped the temp to 180C and cook time is up to 11min and still failing wipe test.

[Tazza]

Sadly i can't help, i use K15 black, so excessive cooking times are not an issue, but i pass every wipe and smash test. I cook at 200c for 12 minutes, one day i messed up and had the temperature way low, it failed wipe on the initial test so much that one wipe and i saw clean lead.

The 122 red i cook at 200c as well, it did darken a little, but not stupidly dark, more of a purple that i liked.

I thought Joe said you needed to get the lead to 180c and hold it there for like 6 minutes or there abouts for it to "set" so you should not be having issues with it not curing as you are at 180 for 11, have you tried longer cook times? it may not be getting to 180 for long enough.

[Ausglock]

Hitek must reach a min of 185deg C for at least 3 minutes to activate and cure.
Our ovens run 195Deg C for 12 mins with a tray shake and 90deg turn of the tray at 6 min mark.

[Ausglock]

My big oven runs 195degC for 7:30mins for 2 trays, with a tray shake and turn at 4 mins.

[Tazza]

My old house oven must not be powerful enough, i tried 200c for 8 minutes with 2 trays, they came out slightly sticky and failed wipe, so it hadn't cured, second bake at 12 minutes fixed them. I tried to save myself time, but meant i needed to double bake that batch :(

[Gatch]

Oh good so 180 is probably too low. I'll bump the temp up and try again. I've got 3 trays drying at home right now so I'll crack into it after work .

[Tazza]

I had the same thought as you, cook cooler, but longer to keep the colour right, i guess you just need to tinker till you find what cures it and doesn't darken it too much.

[Gremlin460]

I bake @200 for just under 11 mins, coating is slightly darker, but my barrels are spotless, dunno about wipe and smash tests I quit doing them about 3 years ago. Although I admit to smashing one every now and then when I find a a faulty one that goes into the remelt container.

[Gatch]

For those that do regularly do wipe tests, does the rag have to be SPOTLESS. Or is a little colouring ok. 12min @195C still leaves a little colour, but not as much as before. And it only seems to be of the beveled base corner.

[Tazza]

A small bit of colour coming off is normal, especially on dark colours, if you can wipe and see lead, it's not cured.

I get the slightest black tinge on my cooked K15 projectiles after cooking and cooling when doing a wipe test. You need to look pretty hard to see it.

[Ausglock]

For those that do regularly do wipe tests, does the rag have to be SPOTLESS. Or is a little colouring ok. 12min @195C still leaves a little colour, but not as much as before. And it only seems to be of the beveled base corner.

good to go... but post a photo of the wipe..

[Tazza]

Joe - Got the K15 and the 500+ on Monday, thank you for getting it out to me quickly.

The 500+ definitely did help my leading issues, but sadly didn't cure them, it may just be a beast i need to deal with on my machine. I think the mould just doesn't get a chance to get cool enough between cycles, unlike the big commercial ones do with 8 sets of moulds. I started building one that takes 8 moulds, it is just on the back burner till i get some spare time.

After doing some sizing on some over sized projectiles, m next order will contain some aqua lube to test out :)

[Gatch]

I haven't been able to upload pics. It just says "error has occurred".

Anyhow I came home and decided it was too much green left on the rag, so I'll test a few more batches. First one 12min @200C

[Tazza]

I haven't been able to upload pics. It just says "error has occurred".

Anyhow I came home and decided it was too much green left on the rag, so I'll test a few more batches. First one 12min @200C

Did that cooking time and temperature prevent any transfer of coating?

I hosted my pictures on tinypic but they are closing down, trevor is using imgur i think, i'll need to do the same in the future, just copy/paste the link and it should show up

[Gatch]

So I did 12minutes at 200 and 205. Both started to go dark. And both still leave a slight smear. Maybe I'm just worried to much about nothing. I'm going to load some id these and shoot em. Suck it and see etc.

[HI-TEK]

A small bit of colour coming off is normal, especially on dark colours, if you can wipe and see lead, it's not cured.

I get the slightest black tinge on my cooked K15 projectiles after cooking and cooling when doing a wipe test. You need to look pretty hard to see it.

I need to chime in on this. If solvent is not removing coating after bake, it is OK. The solvent test was to tell user if coating has been cured enough. This system was adopted, because if first coat was not fully cured after bake, the subsequent coat would act as a stripper, and making a mess.
I refer to slight colour on solvent test. I am almost convinced that what is happening is, that the wiping test is breaking and simply removing fine bubbles that formed on surface. This phenomena can be traced back to inadequate drying.
When rubbing pressure is applied with or without solvent the small amount of colour will show up.
It is easy to identify this situation. Simply magnify and look at surface of baked film. If it is not shiny and smooth, but resembling "orange Peel" this is typical for fine moisture bubbles being baked into the cured coatings. On the surface of these "bubbles" is a dome type very thin cured coating, and application of abrasion force will break this bubble and will carry colour with it. I believe that this is what seems to be causing "colour" residues with solvent wipes.

[lablover]

Well my first try with HT was a bust..I totally missed the dry after coat step. 2nd try went much better and passed all tests but I have a question or two

I’m using the Red Copper. 100ml of acetone and 200 gr of powder. I’m coating 200 gr swc bullets and the coating does not want to seem to get into those tight corners on the bullet as well as completely in the lube grooves which I know is not that important. Any tips to get the bullet completely covered? I ended up doing 3 light coats and they came out nice but those nooks and lube grooves not so much. Also, is one color able to cover better than any others? That red copper has the metallic in it I believe. I’m pretty excited with my second try

Thank you

[Tazza]

Well my first try with HT was a bust..I totally missed the dry after coat step. 2nd try went much better and passed all tests but I have a question or two

I’m using the Red Copper. 100ml of acetone and 200 gr of powder. I’m coating 200 gr swc bullets and the coating does not want to seem to get into those tight corners on the bullet as well as completely in the lube grooves which I know is not that important. Any tips to get the bullet completely covered? I ended up doing 3 light coats and they came out nice but those nooks and lube grooves not so much. Also, is one color able to cover better than any others? That red copper has the metallic in it I believe. I’m pretty excited with my second try

Thank you

I hope that is a typo and you mean 100ml to 20 grams not 200 :)

I also do 3 coats (first is 120ml to 20 grams, the others are 100:20), it never seems to fill all the lube grooves for me either, if you fill all the lube grooves, you are using too much at a time. I know it's an appearance thing, i like filled lube grooves too. When i get time to build a mixer for tumbling my cast, i'm going to experiment with a thinner mix but use more of it so it is more liquid to get in all the grooves but leave the correct amount of coating behind when the acetone evaporates.

[Ausglock]

Well my first try with HT was a bust..I totally missed the dry after coat step. 2nd try went much better and passed all tests but I have a question or two

I’m using the Red Copper. 100ml of acetone and 200 gr of powder. I’m coating 200 gr swc bullets and the coating does not want to seem to get into those tight corners on the bullet as well as completely in the lube grooves which I know is not that important. Any tips to get the bullet completely covered? I ended up doing 3 light coats and they came out nice but those nooks and lube grooves not so much. Also, is one color able to cover better than any others? That red copper has the metallic in it I believe. I’m pretty excited with my second try

Thank you

So... you are mixing 100mls of acetone to 200 grains of powder???
it is supposed to be 20 grams (20gms) of powder to 100mls of acetone.

For 200 grain bullets, I would use 6mls to coat 160 at a time. this roughly equals the 250 9mm bullets benchmark I use that give around 2.3Kg of alloy to be coated.
petander coats large bullets. PM him to see what his coverage mix is.

[lablover]

So... you are mixing 100mls of acetone to 200 grains of powder???
it is supposed to be 20 grams (20gms) of powder to 100mls of acetone.

For 200 grain bullets, I would use 6mls to coat 160 at a time. this roughly equals the 250 9mm bullets benchmark I use that give around 2.3Kg of alloy to be coated.
petander coats large bullets. PM him to see what his coverage mix is.

Correction. 20 grams powder. Too many zeros in my post...haha

[Petander]

So I did 12minutes at 200 and 205. Both started to go dark.

Do you know what temperature your bullets are?

IR thermoneter has helped me quite a bit. I thought my oven was 200°C because two different oven thermometers said so. And the oven dial was @ 200 ,too.

I got dark bullets,otherwise good coatings though. So I shot the bullets with an IR thermometer at the end of bake and it read 215°C...

I'm still slightly on the dark side with a couple of colours.

[lablover]

Great tip. I’ll use my ir thermometer on the next run. I have a oven thermometer inside but will double check. I think it’s more than hot enough. Should bullets in oven after 10 ish minutes be 200c

[Ausglock]

depends on your oven. My small benchtop convection ovens likes 200degC for 12 mins.
but the large wall convection oven likes 195Deg C for 7min:30sec. for the same coating to get the same back colour.

[lablover]

depends on your oven. My small benchtop convection ovens likes 200degC for 12 mins.
but the large wall convection oven likes 195Deg C for 7min:30sec. for the same coating to get the same back colour.

Doing another batch now and I’m getting better coverage with a little more acetone. If they are over cooked. Will that damage the coating? I thought I read that it will make them darker but does not affect the lube quality. I have to get my counter top oven dialed in better I think. As long as I pass the wipe and smash test I should be good to go I assume?

I can see ordering some black....haha

[Tazza]

No issues over cooking, just goes darker.

If you pass smash and wipe tests, you should be good to go. I found extra acetone did cover better, it was more liquid to get into all the hard to get to places. My old coating had projectiles submerged in it, so it got into all lube grooves, but it was more wasteful than hi-tek, more steps.

Black works well for me, i can't over cook it :)

[lablover]

No issues over cooking, just goes darker.

If you pass smash and wipe tests, you should be good to go. I found extra acetone did cover better, it was more liquid to get into all the hard to get to places. My old coating had projectiles submerged in it, so it got into all lube grooves, but it was more wasteful than hi-tek, more steps.

Black works well for me, i can't over cook it :)

Outstanding news. Thank you. Now I have to find something to spray on them before running them thru the sizer! I have some one shot. May order the stuff when I order more coating

[Tazza]

Ideally you shouldn't need to spray them before sizing, most of mine just slip through easily enough, the only issues i had was when i had a lead blob between mould halves i missed that made them a few thou too large and it was a mission to size. If you cast them right, the hi-tek should be all the lube you needed. That said, i do have a 158SWC that casts large, and it takes a good amount of force to size to .357 but the coating never comes off.

Happy shooting, i hope they work as well as they should.

[jsizemore]

Outstanding news. Thank you. Now I have to find something to spray on them before running them thru the sizer! I have some one shot. May order the stuff when I order more coating

I made up the 10 to 1 99% isopropyl alcohol/liquid lanolin. That's the red bottle Heet and pure emollient oil. The lanolin stays in solution and no heat to mix initially. 11 ounces of mix cost me $3.
3-4 squirts on 12 pounds of HT coated bullets goes through the sizer without issue even after hardening for 2 weeks.

[lablover]

I made up the 10 to 1 99% isopropyl alcohol/liquid lanolin. That's the red bottle Heet and pure emollient oil. The lanolin stays in solution and no heat to mix initially. 11 ounces of mix cost me $3.
3-4 squirts on 12 pounds of HT coated bullets goes through the sizer without issue even after hardening for 2 weeks.

Perfect, I use the same lube for my case sizing..problem solved

[mattellis2]

This is a very long thread! I’m going to take my first swing at powder coating. Without trying to sift through 600+ pages, do all of hi-tek’s colors adhere equally well? I’d like to start off with the “stickiest” color, just to help minimize user error.

[Ausglock]

hitek is not powdercoat...

[Burnt Fingers]

hitek is not powdercoat...

I had a FUDD on another forum insist that it was powder coating since it's available as a powder. [smilie=b:

[Avenger442]

This is a very long thread! I’m going to take my first swing at powder coating. Without trying to sift through 600+ pages, do all of hi-tek’s colors adhere equally well? I’d like to start off with the “stickiest” color, just to help minimize user error.

Your right it is a very long thread. When I started it was about 1200 post. I read them all before starting. But you don't have to read all 12,000 now to get started.

To answer your question, there is not a "stickiest" color that I have found. I've used eight of the colors.

Hi Tek actually used to be all liquid no powder. A color liquid and a catalysis liquid were combined with acetone to make the mix that the bullets were tumbled in before baking. Joe the scientist, who's company created the coating made specifically for use with bullets, did us all a favor with both the cost, storage and convenience by making the powder version which includes the color and catalysis combined in powder form to mix with the acetone. And it is actually not like using powder coating except for the baking.

[mattellis2]

Thanks for the reply. I’m going to order a bit to give it a try.

[Conditor22]

mattellis2 before you buy any HiTek coating, check out a couple of youtube videos on Hitek coating. I get the feeling that you are not 100% sure what HiTek coating is.

[Stephen Cohen]

I had a FUDD on another forum insist that it was powder coating since it's available as a powder. [smilie=b:

Using that kind of logic would make urine a fine wine. Regards Stephen

[HI-TEK]

I had a FUDD on another forum insist that it was powder coating since it's available as a powder. [smilie=b:


WOW...….. after all this time, people continue to insinuate that because Hi-Tek is a powder, it is normal Powder coating.
6 years ago or more, some on this blog site insisted in insinuating that Hi-Tek was a powder coat, and it was all a scam.
To prove their assertion, they purchased some actual powder coat and tried to dissolve it and use it to coat. Unfortunately it did not work, but no withdrawals were made afterwards.
On coating instructions, on very first page, advises that Hi-Tek must not be used as a powder coat.
Hi-Tek must be first dissolved in Acetone or MEK to use successfully.

[Ausglock]

I am always surprised at how our northern cousins are the biggest penny pinching, tightwad,stingy, cheapskateing, cornercutting, instruction ignoring and know alls on the planet.

It's as if.... "if it doesn't come from the USA, then it is no good or a scam".

I've said it before, And I'll say it again....Powdercoat is for lawn furniture, not bullets.

[DDriller]

I am always surprised at how our northern cousins are the biggest penny pinching, tightwad,stingy, cheapskateing, cornercutting, instruction ignoring and know alls on the planet.

It's as if.... "if it doesn't come from the USA, then it is no good or a scam".

I've said it before, And I'll say it again....Powdercoat is for lawn furniture, not bullets.

245514

[Ausglock]

245514

Outstanding reply..

This thread has gone cold.. I figured I'd fire it up, But nobody has taken the bait.
I must be loosing my touch...lol

[kevin c]

Twelve thousand posts over six years... How much warmer you want it, Trevor?

[Ausglock]

Hitek now has a second Blue coating.
I fired them today on the 38 Super. clean and accurate, just like the rest.
Blue AE8K/20-LB6002 now known as TruBlu.
It is a bit touchy on bake temp, But 195Deg C is the sweet spot rather than 200Deg C that the other colours like.

[Stephen Cohen]

Hitek now has a second Blue coating.
I fired them today on the 38 Super. clean and accurate, just like the rest.
Blue AE8K/20-LB6002 now known as TruBlu.
It is a bit touchy on bake temp, But 195Deg C is the sweet spot rather than 200Deg C that the other colours like.

I do hope it was not just the challenge of a successful blue that kept Joe going. Many of us never reach our lofty asperations. Well done Joe. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Still working on pink and Purple....

[HI-TEK]

Still working on pink and Purple....

What about a primrose????

[HI-TEK]

I do hope it was not just the challenge of a successful blue that kept Joe going. Many of us never reach our lofty asperations. Well done Joe. Regards Stephen

Thanks Stephen,
This blue has been a huge challenge over many years.
The second Blue that Ausglock reported, was made from alternate suppliers. This Blue is different in shade.
The intent was to obtain at least two suppliers so I can barter prices. The problem seems to be is, that each supplier has an alleged equivalent, but reality that they are similar, but not equivalent at all.

[Avenger442]

I am always surprised at how our northern cousins are the biggest penny pinching, tightwad,stingy, cheapskateing, cornercutting, instruction ignoring and know alls on the planet.

It's as if.... "if it doesn't come from the USA, then it is no good or a scam".

I've said it before, And I'll say it again....Powdercoat is for lawn furniture, not bullets.

I'll take the bait.
Until Trump got in office, most of the items out of USA originated in another country. We were the leading importer of almost anything you can name.:hijack:

I'm glad to hear about the new blues. Maybe when you get through testing we can get comparative photos of the colors. Can't wait for Donnie to say he has them. Want to start using in the .308 and 45-70.

[Ausglock]

Here is the New TruBlu.
Notice there are no "e" in TruBlu...Its an Aussie thing.
The camera makes it look greenish, but in daylight it is a very nice mid blue....shiny and smooth.

Needs only 195Deg C for baking. Time remains the same for my oven.
https://i.imgur.com/tf4UR0w.jpg

[Tazza]

Even as the green that they look with the camera, they look great.

Glad you pointed out the missing E being an aussie thing, our crazy American friends may think we just can't spell, even though we spell colour correctly :)

[Petander]

Here is the New TruBlu.
Notice there are no "e" in TruBlu...Its an Aussie thing.
The camera makes it look greenish, but in daylight it is a very nice mid blue....shiny and smooth.

Needs only 195Deg C for baking. Time remains the same for my oven.
https://i.imgur.com/tf4UR0w.jpg

I can see my nickled 45-70 brass with these already... Joe,please?

[Avenger442]

Are any of the "BLUs" metallics?

[dansedgli]

They look nice!

Quick Q, what size should we size 40 cal bullets for STI's? Just bought a new gun. :D

[Tazza]

I always sized to .401, but open to hearing what others do.

[dansedgli]

Thanks Tazza. I've ordered a .401 die for my star sizer.

And spare parts because its made of cheese.

[HI-TEK]

Are any of the "BLUs" metallics?

Hello Avenger
yes, the two lighter blues are "metallic"
It will be products that will be in the US, but not for a while.
It is best if people keep in touch with Donnie at Hi-Performance bullet coatings with updates on stock arrivals.

[Gremlin460]

They look nice!

Quick Q, what size should we size 40 cal bullets for STI's? Just bought a new gun. :D

Slug the barrel, everything else is just a guess.

cast yourself 1/2 dozen PURE lead casts.
using a brass or bronze drift drive one from the chamber end into the barrel with a BFH.
once you get past the forcing cone, approx 1" in, invert barrel and drive it back out.
Once it has poped out , shot off across the floor and disapeared into another dimension, do it again with another.
This time wrap a rag around the chamber to catch the slug.
Now using a MICROMETER, that is not spelt VERNIERS, measure across 2 of the "hills" that represent the bottom of your
riffling grooves. That figure is your true barrel diameter.

From that measurment add (that means plus) .002-.0015 thousanths of an inch. The resulting number is the best sizing die to use.
Everyones barrel is slightly different, unless you bought 2 barrels made one after the other.

Hope this helps.

Mike (another aussie).

[Ausglock]

Dan. I run .4015 for my 40cals.
Got a .401 and opened it up a tad just by polishing it with mothers Bulbar polish.

The TruBlu is not metallic like the Gold 1035, Kryptonite green, Bronze 502, red Copper etc etc.

It is a different type all together.

[Gatch]

Tested some 145gr mihec boolits in the shadow 2 on monday. 3.3gr of universal (I'm out of ap70). Showed some leading after 10 shots.

The mr bullet feeder mtype expander didn't help. If anything it's worse as the step in the expander shaves tiny slivers of brass out the case mouth.

Next step is to machine up my own plug out of D2. Or whatever I can source through work.

[dansedgli]

Thanks guys.

[Tazza]

Tested some 145gr mihec boolits in the shadow 2 on monday. 3.3gr of universal (I'm out of ap70). Showed some leading after 10 shots.

The mr bullet feeder mtype expander didn't help. If anything it's worse as the step in the expander shaves tiny slivers of brass out the case mouth.

Next step is to machine up my own plug out of D2. Or whatever I can source through work.

Not a great start, what size do you have them sized to? i have had lead scraping due to not opening the case mouth enough.

I made a sizing die from a lump of 4140 steel

[Gatch]

Barrel slugged at .3555-.3560 I sized to .357 but I have a .358 sizer just in case.

Yeah I loaded a few dummies then pulled them and the bases are swaged down a bit, the expander plug only goes roughly 2/3 the seating depth of the mighty 145s. Work is going to be hectic so I won't be able to test for a month or so, but should hopefully get the necessary machining done while I'm on night shift :D

[Ausglock]

Barrel slugged at .3555-.3560 I sized to .357 but I have a .358 sizer just in case.

Yeah I loaded a few dummies then pulled them and the bases are swaged down a bit, the expander plug only goes roughly 2/3 the seating depth of the mighty 145s. Work is going to be hectic so I won't be able to test for a month or so, but should hopefully get the necessary machining done while I'm on night shift :D

What are you firing them out of?
Please tell me it is NOT a *** Beretta.....
Please tell me you are NOT using a Lee carbide factory crimp die.

[Gatch]

An absolutely stock shadow 2. All the dies I have are the dillon carbide ones that came with the press. Only using the absolute minimum crimp required to get the round to drop in and out of the gauge.

[Ausglock]

A lot of CZ eople we supply require .3575" Dia for their bullets.
A few use our 150gn RN with great success.

[Gatch]

A lot of CZ eople we supply require .3575" Dia for their bullets.
A few use our 150gn RN with great success.

Good to know, thanks Trev.

[Gremlin460]

What are you firing them out of?
Please tell me it is NOT a *** Beretta.....
Please tell me you are NOT using a Lee carbide factory crimp die.

I like my Beretta ! Thank you very much! Shoots just fine for me and my lifestyle.
ALL new Lee crimp dies are now set a FCD and yes, you need to be attentive when setting them up.

[Gatch]

My buddy is actually keen on a 92fs. Ben Stoeger runs them, must be good :bigsmyl2:

[Tazza]

I like my Beretta ! Thank you very much! Shoots just fine for me and my lifestyle.
ALL new Lee crimp dies are now set a FCD and yes, you need to be attentive when setting them up.

You need to sling back insults of using a glock, i make sure i do that to my mad mate, using tupperware. Yet, the mongrel beats me on occasion with it....... Those days don't count though!

[Ausglock]

My buddy is actually keen on a 92fs. Ben Stoeger runs them, must be good :bigsmyl2:

Ben Stoeger????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... the run away kid...
Shot like a C grader at the IPSC Nationals this year. Caused a stir, Spat the dummy and then ran away.

[Gremlin460]

You need to sling back insults of using a glock, i make sure i do that to my mad mate, using tupperware. Yet, the mongrel beats me on occasion with it....... Those days don't count though!

Now Now Taz, a glock is a fine firearm!, If you ever drop your knife in a fight its a great backup!!

[Gremlin460]

My buddy is actually keen on a 92fs. Ben Stoeger runs them, must be good :bigsmyl2:

Dunno who that is. But Beretta is a fun gun to shoot, but by no stretch of the imagination is it either a Tack driver or what I would call a competition gun.
Depends on what you actually shoot for. At my age its just for fun. I have thrown away more trophies for Rally and speedway racing than most shooters will ever earn. I no longer feel I have anything to "prove" either to my friends or myself.

My wifes S&W 1911 Pro Series runs rings around my Beretta, it IS a Tack driver, and almost boring to shoot.

[Ausglock]

My Para 1911 GI Expert 45ACP is the most accurate iron sighted gun I have ever had. Consistently hit an 8" steel plate at 50 yards offhand.

[Stephen Cohen]

My Para 1911 GI Expert 45ACP is the most accurate iron sighted gun I have ever had. Consistently hit an 8" steel plate at 50 yards offhand.

Yes back before Jack boot Johny had it destroyed my Springfield Para was unbeatable, got that way I would be given the medal as I walked up to sign in to shoot. I will always love the 1911 and clones. Regards Stephen

[Gremlin460]

Slightly off topic:-
The old destroyed Lee mold I had in 9mm. Brought to me for repair about 3 years ago. I retrieved from the scrap shelf and re-purposed for 358 Button nosed LSWC of the two colt Pythons, has been a success.
First run out of the mold, coated twice with Red/Copper and loaded with AP70 returned 620-640 FPS over the Crony and 2" groups at 15mtrs. The casts were 152gn +/- 2-3gn.
These were slightly heavier than what I was aiming for, so I striped the mold, chucked it up in the 4 jaw on the lathe and refaced a few thou off the top.
Result was casts @ 148gn again +/- 2-3. Happy with the weight these were again coated in HiTec Red/Copper (2 coats).
Yesterday I ran them through the crony loaded with 4gn of AP70 and over 80 rounds got a average of 710fps.
Tested at 15mtrs , accuracy was exemplary and recoil felt smooth.

So I am willing to call this exercise a win.
Not a great fan of wheel guns, but these Pythons are growing on me.

[Gatch]

these Pythons are growing on me.

Two pythons ! Aren't they fairly hard to come by these days ? And you have two..

[kevin c]

My Para 1911 GI Expert 45ACP is the most accurate iron sighted gun I have ever had. Consistently hit an 8" steel plate at 50 yards offhand.

The credit for hitting that plate goes at least as much or more to you, Trevor, rather than the gun. I don't know how you say it Down Under, but in the States we say it's the Indian, not the arrow.

[Gremlin460]

Two pythons ! Aren't they fairly hard to come by these days ? And you have two..

No longer made and have become a bit of a cult gun after Rick in the walking Dead used a 6" for the show.

These two are in my care most of the year but do not belong to me as yet. One is 6" and the other its bigger brother , the 8". Either shoot 38spl or 357 Mag.
I.d like to work up a load out in AP50 for these as AP70 is a much dirtier propellant. I think I will wait till the new ADI (Hodgeson for the USA guys) powders start filtering through. AP45S or whatever they decide to call it.

Mike.

[Gatch]

APS450 is the current replacement for AP50. And APS650 will replace AP70. Apparently this year.

[Tazza]

Sadly i don't shoot enough to need the new APS range yet, i have a few kg each of 70 and 100. By the time i need it, people will have worked out loads.

[Ausglock]

Same here. I have enough AP 50,70 and 100 to last a few years.
Add to that the 10Kg of AP-90
and just bought an 18Kg keg of Win Autocomp.

[Tazza]

Same here. I have enough AP 50,70 and 100 to last a few years.
Add to that the 10Kg of AP-90
and just bought an 18Kg keg of Win Autocomp.

90? i can't even remember the least time i saw 90.

I know whose door i'm knocking on when i run low of powder :)

[Ausglock]

Picked it up a few years ago from Peter Dawson of Boxtrade.
He got it from a deceased estate.
Brilliant 9mm powder. I used it for 40S&W back in the day.

[Tazza]

Nice score, Peter is a good bloke.

That's a lot of 9mm loads right there!

[dansedgli]

Where did you get the autocomp from?

They got any drums left?

[Ausglock]

Where did you get the autocomp from?

They got any drums left?
Victor Precision.
Contact Lynne. Not sure how much is left, Fitzy, Ray Docwra, Me, Matt Medlin are getting some.

[Ausglock]

Thanks, its a bit out of the way. :(

Ive got almost 32lbs of it which will probably do me for ages.

My latest purchase.

245990

Sweet. Sig?
My Tac 5 is 9mm

[dansedgli]

Yep in sig.

[Avenger442]

I will continue in the thread hijack and ask this question. How do you store your powder? I ask because I was reading an article recently about powder storage and groups opening up. It was written by Glen Zediker noted competition shooter in rifle and author of several books on loading ammo and competition shooting. Granted, he is shooting distances with his rifle where it really really matters. If it is another 1/4" at 100 yards at 600 yards it might cost him a match.

I have quantities of powder stored and it seems that that as long as it is sealed as it came from the factory it will keep for years. But once you open it it may be much much less. The groups opening up, as I understand it, is because of a change in the velocity spread as the powder absorbs moisture and generally erodes due to oxidation.

Anyone ever experienced changes due to old opened powder?

[Ausglock]

Yep in sig.

Have you seen JCL's Pulver-ised Tac 5? Sweet looking gun.

Avenger. All mine is stored indoors in original containers.
I have some Win 748 going back to 1994. It still shoots fine in my 308.
Same with ADI AP-90 1993 dated and loaded in 9mm, evil Jihadi cardboard targets stand no chance...lol

[dansedgli]

Yeah it looks awesome.

A friend bought his other Pulver with a tungsten sleeved barrel and steel grip and I want to do the same now. It was a massive difference in recoil between it and my gun with the same loads.

I store my powder in the house in the original containers too. I worry the moisture in my shed might not be ideal for it and it seems like my wife always has the heater on inside.

[Tazza]

Mine is kept in my shed, but in sealed containers, never worried about moisture getting in, they are sealed, never had issues, hopefully never will.

[Gremlin460]

Mine is kept in my shed, but in sealed containers, never worried about moisture getting in, they are sealed, never had issues, hopefully never will.

+1 for that.

[Avenger442]

OK since I have taken us this far off subject I'll ask another question. Do you store your primers in the same conditions you store your powder in? Zediker said that they are even more subject to the conditions of storage since they are not sealed.

[Tazza]

OK since I have taken us this far off subject I'll ask another question. Do you store your primers in the same conditions you store your powder in? Zediker said that they are even more subject to the conditions of storage since they are not sealed.

Personally, i store them in the same conditions, never had any issues. I live in Brisbane, AU, we are known for hot humid summers, humidity is always there. I just leave them in the packets they came in. I get a few that sit in the primer hopper in my lee 1000 between reloading sessions, i can't remember the last time i had a dead primer.

[Ausglock]

Same... the cartons of 5K are stacked on the floor. packs of 1K are on the shelf.
Primer tubes on the dillons always have primers in them.

[dansedgli]

I got my magma care package today.

The sizing die has heaps of holes in it for old school lube. Will I still be able to use it?

My last one had no holes.

[Ausglock]

Dan.
Get onto Lathesmith here on this forum.
His Magma style sizing dies are brilliant. They are all We use. No holes and perfectly made.

Ask him for the Short type. the same he makes for Susan Island Bullets and Gateway bullets.

[dansedgli]

Thanks will hit him up.

[Gatch]

Made an test expander plug tonight. Its only a soft grade of steel so it's easy to polish smaller if there's not enough tension. Once I know what size I need I'll make another out of tool steel :) The bottom one is a mr bullet feeder stock item which was no help.. 246163

[Ausglock]

Gatch... In all the years I have been reloading for handguns, I have never had expander/seating issues when using the factory Dillon powder drop tubes. 9mm, 38 Super, 357Sig, 40, 44, 45........All work fine..
What problems are you having???

[Gatch]

I'm getting leading in my shadow 2 after only a few shots. I believe it's the bullets being swaged down by the brass. I think this because I've pulled a few that I've loaded and they all mic around .355 These boolits were sized at .357 The bore of the cz mic'd at .3555

I'm using an mp 145gr rnbb mold and they seat around 7mm deep in the case. The factory dillon plug only goes into the brass around 4mm. The boolits when I pull them also taper down a few thou more toward the base.

So that makes me think they're undersized as they go down the barrel. I've turned up the plug to see if that will help.

The only hitek powder I've used is the small amount of green you sent along with the lee molds. Doing 2 coats of 20g/120ml acetone, then 6ml of that for 2.3kg bullets. After seeing everyone elses cook times/temps I'm pretty sure I'm not making a mess of that part of the operation (12min@195 with pid control) though it's possible there's something I'm missing. Sizing to 357 after both coats.

I'm using all dillon dies, loading press is setup according to dillons user guide. Using only enough crimp to straighten out the case flare and drop in and out of a case gauge.

Using federal primers, mixed brass and 3.3gr of ap70.

[Ausglock]

Do me a favour and seperate your brass by headstamp.

There are a few IPSC people in Sydney running our 150gn RN in SP-01's and Shadow 2's.
They have had similar problems when running a certain brand of brass as it is thicker than other brands down inside the case.
I can't remember which brass was the problem.
They like their bullets sized .357 for CZ's

[Gatch]

So after a trial run with the custom plug I've learned some stuff. The diameter is spot on. The pulled boolits went in and come out at .357 so that's a win.

The less good is that I've discovered where the case wall thickens up and that you can only push the plug in so far before the case bulges too much. So no matter what, my lead boolits are going to swage down a little at the base when seated.

Will they still lead the barrel ? I'll find out next week at the range.

[Gremlin460]

Gatch what Alloy mix are you running?. I incresed my alloy by about 1% antimony and they stopped leading instantly.
I use 2-4-94 mix 2 tin 4anti and 94 COww.
Just guessing, but it might help.

PS I am souhisde in Brizzy, you welcome to come grab a handfull of a few different profiles to use and try.
Mike

[kevin c]

Do me a favour and seperate your brass by headstamp.

There are a few IPSC people in Sydney running our 150gn RN in SP-01's and Shadow 2's.
They have had similar problems when running a certain brand of brass as it is thicker than other brands down inside the case.
I can't remember which brass was the problem.
They like their bullets sized .357 for CZ's
For me, S&B and PPU cases were too thick, causing bulges with deep seated 147's. That was back when I was using commercial cast sized to .356.

[Gatch]

Gatch what Alloy mix are you running?. I incresed my alloy by about 1% antimony and they stopped leading instantly.
I use 2-4-94 mix 2 tin 4anti and 94 COww.
Just guessing, but it might help.

PS I am souhisde in Brizzy, you welcome to come grab a handfull of a few different profiles to use and try.
Mike

I might take you up on that. All my boolits right now are coww/soww +1% tin. I had a sample checked with an xrf gun and the alloy is much the same as lots of people on here. But trying some harder lead will be worth a try.

As for the cases I only messed about with a few this morning. However I did notice the s&b case had the bigger bulge out of the 3.

[Tazza]

I had no issues using COWW in my open .38 super running rather hot loads, i'd like to think it's something easy/silly causing your issues. With the swaging you noticed on your previous loads, i never thought it would lead up as fast as you said it did.

The recycled head i'm using coated in htek is about wheel weight hardness, i have others using it in open guns without leading issues.

Hopefully the new plug has fixed your issues, good excuse to get out to the range this week for some pew pews.

[Petander]

Hey what's the Hi Tek Facebook addy again?

Thanks.

[dansedgli]

https://www.facebook.com/JM-Specialized-Products-278002006203240/

I cast and coated some 40s today. :D

[jsizemore]

I went through the same mess as Gatch with a SA 1911 9mm. I did a pound cast on the neck/throat/lead area. Found the throat was .3582 and the grove was .3555-6. Pulled bullets were .3575 with a custom expander from Lathesmith for my Dillon. As you can see the numbers don't work. Any larger on bullet diameter and the rounds won't chamber. I used the barrel for my case gage. I segregated cases by headstamp and the internal case dimensions were all over the place.

My solution was to send that gun down the road. Too big a throat is a bad thing. Gas cutting doesn't care if it's coated or not. Maybe you can find a barrel better suited to cast/HT coating. I traded for a Sig P226 that also had some barrel problems but I lapped it into shape and my HT nightmare is just a memory.

[HI-TEK]

Hey what's the Hi Tek Facebook addy again?

Thanks.

this is direct contact on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/JM-Specialized-Products-278002006203240/?modal=admin_todo_tour

[Gremlin460]

I might take you up on that. All my boolits right now are coww/soww +1% tin. I had a sample checked with an xrf gun and the alloy is much the same as lots of people on here. But trying some harder lead will be worth a try.

As for the cases I only messed about with a few this morning. However I did notice the s&b case had the bigger bulge out of the 3.

Will also give you a copy of an Excel program.. allows you to plot your own casting alloy, its on this site "somewhere" but I tweaked mine a little.
SOWW +1 tin is gonna be soft as hell, or I found it to be.
Also, this is my own optinion, retire the case gauge and use your barrel. You are loading for you barrel, not loading for the go/no go gauge.
Life would be nice if all 9mm were 355.000000 but trust me, they aint!.
Companies charge a whole heap for a barrel that is 355 to 355.5 and crow and strut its a "Match" barrel.
That only holds true if you use factory ammo.
If you cast and size for the barrel size you have, every barrel is a "match" barrel IMHO. You will hear the saying "Fit is King" and it is.
Phone number here is 0433-409-335 ifn you need it.
Mike.

[Conditor22]

so true. I have 4 9MM's that range from .3555 to .3556 and 2 that are over .358 (European Llama and Walther P-38)

[glaciers]

OK since I have taken us this far off subject I'll ask another question.

Avenger442, I sent you a PM about rifles and Hi-Tec and just wondered if you received it.

[Avenger442]

Avenger442, I sent you a PM about rifles and Hi-Tec and just wondered if you received it.

See PM to you. Will give you what info I have. Rifles with Hi Tec were my first love in this coating.

[Petander]

See PM to you. Will give you what info I have. Rifles with Hi Tec were my first love in this coating.

I think my biggest "kick" is a Marlin SBL 45-70. I shoot it every week, RCBS 325 plain base @ 1900 has become my plinker load / moving moose target load. But it's only two cavity mold,I have a four cav 400 MP NLG mold coming in a group buy.

I still laugh aloud when I observe the barrel after 100-200 rounds. Not much of anything in there except some carbon.

[glaciers]

I think my biggest "kick" is a Marlin SBL 45-70. I shoot it every week, RCBS 325 plain base @ 1900 has become my plinker load / moving moose target load. But it's only two cavity mold,I have a four cav 400 MP NLG mold coming in a group buy.

I still laugh aloud when I observe the barrel after 100-200 rounds. Not much of anything in there except some carbon.

What is the Brindle Hardness of the 325's in for your 45-70, and do you Hi-Tec only, or do you add additional lubes?
Thanks,
John

[Petander]

What is the Brindle Hardness of the 325's in for your 45-70, and do you Hi-Tec only, or do you add additional lubes?
Thanks,
John

Hi John, my BHN is 16. Size .4595. Plain base.

Hi Tek three coats. I have used TMG Gold and Candy Apple Red lately. I also shoot a 465 grainer, same coatings and plain base.

Discovering Hi Tek got me back into casting and big bores.

[Gremlin460]

Two pythons ! Aren't they fairly hard to come by these days ? And you have two..

Hey Gatch, mate, pal, buddy, Guess wot!.

246398

[slide]

Gotta love revolvers!!! Grem you are a lucky man.

[Gatch]

Hey Gatch, mate, pal, buddy, Guess wot!.

246398

Bahahaha now you're just showing off mate ! That top one wuth the 8" ? barrel looks sweet. Do you shoot them much ?

Aside from todays revolver envy, I took delivery of some candy apple red hitek the other day. Just doing second coat now, but the first coat passed wipe and smash test with flying lack of colours. Also picked up about 80kg of wheel weights, so soon I'll have some straight coww + 2% to cast up and try. I also shortened my expander plug and gave it a harden and polish last night. All good stuff. Now once these bullets are out the oven I'm to bed.

[Gremlin460]

Gotta love revolvers!!! Grem you are a lucky man.

Oh how I wish I owned them, but these are the ones I just made the mold for and working up a load for them. The picture just does not do the shine of these beauties justice.

Button nosed 148gn SWC 120 through the bottom 6" one, no leading with 2 coats of Red Copper. However the AP70 powder is leaving a mess. Hoping to convert to AP50, its slightly faster but not as dirty residue wise.

[Tazza]

Problem is, 50 is not in the shops anymore.... So then you'll have to do up a load with the new APS stuff that ADI are bringing out, but hey, excuse to shoot them again? :)

[Gatch]

1st batch of candy apple red came out fantastic. Wipe and smash test were perfect !

246414

[Tazza]

They look great, i bet they shoot just as well.

[Ausglock]

Good Job, Gatch

[Petander]

Candy & TMG here.

305 grain NOE for 500 S&W. I'm "force crimping" with Lee collet die.


https://i.postimg.cc/fRfYwzKg/IMG-20190809-181601-819.jpg

[HI-TEK]

Candy & TMG here.

305 grain NOE for 500 S&W. I'm "force crimping" with Lee collet die.


https://i.postimg.cc/fRfYwzKg/IMG-20190809-181601-819.jpg

they look just great, a bit over coked but they will work just fine

[Petander]

they look just great, a bit over coked but they will work just fine

Yes,I'm still a little on the dark side because my cyclone isn't even / radiant heat. At the end of my 10 min bake some bullets hit 205°C while some are 195°C. At 6 min they all are 185-190°C.

I will fine tune for blue. :)

[TonyN]

Should I do anything different with the new Dark green metallic? I constantly get chipping even with 120ML and drying 45 Min. Do I need to go with 150 ML acetone? It's really the only one that i cant get from chipping. They pass the acetone test and they shoot as good as any other color i have. Also when is the blue coming to the U.S. market?

[Ausglock]

Yes,I'm still a little on the dark side because my cyclone isn't even / radiant heat. At the end of my 10 min bake some bullets hit 205°C while some are 195°C. At 6 min they all are 185-190°C.

I will fine tune for blue. :)

Do you remove the tray at the 1/2time point and turn it 90deg an re-insert it??

I do. keeps the colour uniform.

[jsizemore]

So after a trial run with the custom plug I've learned some stuff. The diameter is spot on. The pulled boolits went in and come out at .357 so that's a win.

The less good is that I've discovered where the case wall thickens up and that you can only push the plug in so far before the case bulges too much. So no matter what, my lead boolits are going to swage down a little at the base when seated.

Will they still lead the barrel ? I'll find out next week at the range.

Instant bevel base. If the alloy and pressure are right it will bump up, obturate, to fit. That's why you can't use just any old 355-358 mold for the 9mm.

[Gatch]

Instant bevel base. If the alloy and pressure are right it will bump up, obturate, to fit. That's why you can't use just any old 355-358 mold for the 9mm.

So I'm finding out. After more reading, I've found the shadow 2 has a very short throat and makes loading heavy bullets difficult. I've got a new 130gr bb 2r nose mold on the way. Hopefully the shorter bullet wont end up swaging down.

[hunter74]

Tried out the Zombie Green for the first time some days ago. I was very pleased with the coverage and how smooth they were with only one coat, so I decided to size them and try them out.

Pic attached

I tried them on the range today. Shot 50 of them. They performed as the other ones with two coats! They sure looks prettier with two coats but as performance goes, they were as good as the ones with two coates. I sell a lot of these so it's a lot of labour and time saved. The Magma 100 SWCs are very popular over here for soft shooting competition loads. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190811/2c586a07e2f496d7f1638e4a10bd13c5.jpg

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

[Petander]

Do you remove the tray at the 1/2time point and turn it 90deg an re-insert it??

I do. keeps the colour uniform.

I'll try this asap!

Makes sense.



Tried out the Zombie Green for the first time some days ago. I was very pleased with the coverage and how smooth they were with only one coat...

...I tried them on the range today. Shot 50 of them. They performed as the other ones with two coats! They sure looks prettier with two coats but as performance goes, they were as good as the ones with two coates..

All I can say is wow. The way I do, one coat never looks like that.

[Avenger442]

I've tried the single coat in rifle. The no leading was good with one coat but my accuracy at 100 yards was not quite as good. This stuff will take the heat.

I'm about to load what I hope to be the most accurate ammo I've ever done. We have a CMP range about a hour and a half from me that has a 200, 300 and 600 yard range. They have electronically scored targets so you are never on the range to change targets. It's a really cool system. I think you can check it out at thecmp.org/talladega. You have to get three out of five in the inner circle at each distance before they will let you shoot the next distance.

If I can do the casting , coating and loading correctly I'm hoping to post some target photos in he future. Been working on this for little over six months and I think I'm almost there. It's been fun learning all the things I can do to help get the Hi Tec bullets into tight groups. The last loading got contaminated by some Imperial sizing wax I was using to do some outside neck turning. It was a great disappointment when I got to the range. Worst ammo I've ever loaded. We learn from our mistakes, right.

[ioon44]

I have done one coat using the Liquid Black with the 200 gr SWC, I shot about 200 out of my 1911 and the barrel was still clean, 2 coats just look nicer.

[Petander]

Success!

This is a plain base .502 305 grain NOE bullet,no lube groove,no crimp groove. I force crimp it with Lee collet die and it holds in place @ 1640 fps from a 3" S&W 500 barrel. Three coats of TMG Gold,sized .5015 with Aqualube,BHN 14. I give it some taper crimp with a Hornady Taper Crimp die first,then Lee collet. Other dies are RCBS carbide - I use Redding for J-loads but they are very tight for cast.

Five chronoed rounds had extreme spread of 12 fps, I checked Federal 215 primers today - and will stick to them. I shoot clays on the berm @ 50 meters with this, barrel looks 4" because of the last 1" is brake.

I find it amazing that Hi Tek coating can take this violent,crushing crimp. No lead in the barrel, I have been shooting and developing load with these for a week now,about 200 and now I'm set with the load. Case full VV N110...

https://i.postimg.cc/HsnP0VtT/IMG-20190814-233319-791.jpg

[Tazza]

That's one big hole puncher right there, and it sure isn't waiting around, 1,640 FPS is a pretty savage load.

14BHN without leading on 200 rounds at those speeds, is quite impressive.

[Petander]

That's one big hole puncher right there, and it sure isn't waiting around, 1,640 FPS is a pretty savage load.

14BHN without leading on 200 rounds at those speeds, is quite impressive.

Even the throats are clean... my 420 GC leaves some deposit in throats, I was ready for possible fouling. 420 uses a slower powder but is the same size.

I will try 501 bullets later on, need a .5005 sizer for that. 501 would be throat size.

Anyway,the crazy collet crimp and Hi Tek working together is fantastic. A KISS bullet to work with.

[Petander]

I cleaned the gun... just because I used dirty brass for my last (a quick primer check) rounds. I'm on the edge of sticky extraction here, a clean chamber is a happy chamber. Not much to clean anywhere else,either.

This is just great.

https://i.postimg.cc/SxYhnRvv/IMG-20190815-114143.jpg

[Petander]

CCI 215 primers give more velocity than Federal in this load - but there is more spread,too.

This is 1740 fps, chrono was @ five meters so real velocity is 530 m/s.

https://i.postimg.cc/50BbM3Pq/150820194718.jpg.

A light bullet like this NOE 305 is completely shootable at full power, heavyweights get tiring after a while.

[slide]

wlkjr, I sent you another pm

[hunter74]

Anyone had any luck with cast boolits without GC but with Hi-Tek in their AR-15s?

I'm aware that the small pills in 223 are somwhat hard to get right in this caliber, but showing a lot of promise in others this could be done, right? If this could be done I'm sure they would be quite popular with the IPSC guys!

Sent fra min SM-T550 via Tapatalk

[wlkjr]

wlkjr, I sent you another pm
I haven't checked in a couple of days but just replied.

[Gremlin460]

WooHoo!, busy week, not only did I recieve a nice steel mold from USA, I both sucessfully removed the lube groves . aAnd the saturday before had 2 Stents fitted in the old ticker.
Like I said.. busy boy just lately..

[Tazza]

OOH accurate one? I may need to talk to them and get one for 300 BO for some mad mates.

Glad the docs got you all fixed up, we need someone to keep Trevor in line, i didn't want to have to be the one to take your place on string him up.

[Ausglock]

I'm not the problem...

Great weekend at GCPC. 2 day IPSC match. came away with 1st in Open Div C grade.
Looks like a re-grade to B grade.

Many many of our Green Goodness went downrange in all divisions and many different makes of guns.
Everyone I spoke to loves our bullets and can't get over how clean their guns are after a 2 day match.

[Tazza]

You are just someone that will give as good as he gets :)

Good to hear the match went well, you do well and get bumped a grade then you have to work a lot harder to move up.

A happy customer is a good one. I have had good success so far with hi-tek. I'm really not as kind to my guns as i should be, i run a few k rounds through mine before i bother cleaning the barrel, even then, it's just a wet patch, no need to scrub lead out.

[Gremlin460]

I'm not the problem...

Great weekend at GCPC. 2 day IPSC match. came away with 1st in Open Div C grade.
Looks like a re-grade to B grade.

OH great, now for 8 days of volunteer work to repair all he overhead baffles after you Errol Harper IPICAC dudes...
Just what we needed..


[smilie=s:

[Tazza]

OH great, now for 8 days of volunteer work to repair all he overhead baffles after you Errol Harper IPICAC dudes...
Just what we needed..


[smilie=s:

OOH he is one of THOSE? :)

We have all seen holes in baffles that we wonder how on earth did they get there? were they going prone and aimed for the sky on purpose?

[dansedgli]

I won my division on the weekend too. I think I need a round nose profile bullet to help prevent nose dive jams.


https://youtu.be/0siW656tnhA

[Ausglock]

Grem... You will find most of the baffle damage is from ISSF shooters...

[Shotgundrums]

Hello, fellow boolit casters/coaters!! I haven’t been on the forums in a couple of years as I’ve been stationed in Okinawa since 16. It’s great to see the hi-tek and other coating methods are still very alive and well!! I haven’t poured lead or coated in a few years now, though I think about it often. Nonetheless, I’ll get back into it whenever I move back to the states... still have plenty of HT’s powders in nice cool and dry storage. Cheers fellas and keep up the great work!!
Josh

[Ausglock]

G'day Josh.
Mate long time, No see... Hope you are well and great to see you are back.

[Avenger442]

I won my division on the weekend too. I think I need a round nose profile bullet to help prevent nose dive jams.


https://youtu.be/0siW656tnhA

dansedgli
Your going to love this. Here in the states the media has made people super sensitive to the idea of use of firearms to do all kinds of things illegal. And has left out the thousands of times a year a gun is used by private citizens to save a life. It has gotten to the point where if a person in Maryland shoots a gun we hear about it in Alabama. Whatever happened to a local news focus. Anyway, we were with our Granddaughter as she had some minor surgery at the hospital yesterday when I saw your post. I really didn't think when I pulled it up on my phone and just punched play on the video. As the gun was going off my wife was having a fit to turn the sound off immediately. Even though it was only us in a private room with the door shut she was afraid someone was going to call the coppers on me. Wonder what would have happened if WW II had been on TV?

Josh
Welcome back to the forum. When will they ship you home?

[Shotgundrums]

G'day Josh.
Mate long time, No see... Hope you are well and great to see you are back.
It has been a while for sure. Everything is well, hope all is well in Oz brother.


dansedgli
Your going to love this. Here in the states the media has made people super sensitive to the idea of use of firearms to do all kinds of things illegal. And has left out the thousands of times a year a gun is used by private citizens to save a life. It has gotten to the point where if a person in Maryland shoots a gun we hear about it in Alabama. Whatever happened to a local news focus. Anyway, we were with our Granddaughter as she had some minor surgery at the hospital yesterday when I saw your post. I really didn't think when I pulled it up on my phone and just punched play on the video. As the gun was going off my wife was having a fit to turn the sound off immediately. Even though it was only us in a private room with the door shut she was afraid someone was going to call the coppers on me. Wonder what would have happened if WW II had been on TV?

Josh
Welcome back to the forum. When will they ship you home?

I have one year of assignment tour remaining, but I’m strongly considering extending two years, the last two of my military career. Avenger, the media has turned the US in on itself and it’s getting worse. Everyday I hear about the media and left’s craziness and makes me wanna vomit.
Josh

[Ausglock]

Josh... It's not just the US.
Australia is being run by Vegan anti-everything types.
And the Lefty Media is pumping it out to school kids.
Teachers are feeding kids their own agendas, rather than educating the young minds.
Come the revolution............

[Shotgundrums]

Indeed

[Gatch]

I'm still having no joy with cast and hitek.

Today I tried coww + 2% tin. Water dropped 130gr rn bb coated twice in 6ml of 120ml/20g powder. Baked 11min at 200C. Sized to .358 using a spray of diluted aqualube. 4.0gr of universal. Even seperated out the thicker s&b brass like ausglock mentioned. I'm not sure what else I can do differently.

[HI-TEK]

I'm still having no joy with cast and hitek.

Today I tried coww + 2% tin. Water dropped 130gr rn bb coated twice in 6ml of 120ml/20g powder. Baked 11min at 200C. Sized to .358 using a spray of diluted aqualube. 4.0gr of universal. Even seperated out the thicker s&b brass like ausglock mentioned. I'm not sure what else I can do differently.

Hi Gatch,
Can you please advise what is the failure?
It is not clear with your post, "having no joy with cast & hitek".
Please advise what is happening.

[Gatch]

Hi Gatch,
Can you please advise what is the failure?
It is not clear with your post, "having no joy with cast & hitek".
Please advise what is happening.

Oops I missed a few details eh. I'm still getting leading in my barrel. I know I must be overlooking something. Too many people using it with good results for it to be a product failure.

Would water dropping from the mold have any negative effect on hitek ?

[Tazza]

Have you had issues with other cast?

I'm on brisbane, southside (sheldon). You are welcome to pop in one day and grab a hand full of my hi-tek coated projectiles and give them a go and see if you have the same issues.

You say you're sizing to .358 i wonder if there is an issues of the projectile being a bit too small, and the gas is cutting the hi-tek ?

[HI-TEK]

Oops I missed a few details eh. I'm still getting leading in my barrel. I know I must be overlooking something. Too many people using it with good results for it to be a product failure.

Would water dropping from the mold have any negative effect on hitek ?

Hi Gatch,
the whole thing starts at the beginning.
1. If you are using wheel weights plus Tin, does your mix contain any Zinc? If it does, that will answer all questions. The coating does not like Zinc at all and will peel off.
2. If you are sure of "no Zinc", do you use any casting/release lubes in and or around your Molds?
3. With Water quenching, freshly made cast, what is the purpose of doing this? Have you had any increase in hardness, (if that is the aim).Do you dry the water off the quenched cast? Any possibility of contamination coming from your water quench?
4. If you have Zinc in mix, dropping them into water will cause the Zinc on surface to "React" with the water, causing a dry film, that will interfere with bonding of the coating.
5. The next problem may be, simply using too much first coat, and then not drying enough before baking. How do you test if the first coat is dry or not before baking?
Please look at simple things, one item at a time.

As Tazza suggested, have you slugged your bore to measure internal diameter and then match your bore sizing requirements accordingly.

[Ausglock]

Gatch..
Humour me..
Go and see Katherine at Northern Smelters in North road Woodridge and get a 5Kg ingot of 2,6,92 Bullet metal.
Will cost you about $30.
Cast and coat and shoot those.
If they shoot fine, It is your poxy Alloy being the problem..

[Gatch]

Hi Gatch,
the whole thing starts at the beginning.
1. If you are using wheel weights plus Tin, does your mix contain any Zinc? If it does, that will answer all questions. The coating does not like Zinc at all and will peel off.
2. If you are sure of "no Zinc", do you use any casting/release lubes in and or around your Molds?
3. With Water quenching, freshly made cast, what is the purpose of doing this? Have you had any increase in hardness, (if that is the aim).Do you dry the water off the quenched cast? Any possibility of contamination coming from your water quench?
4. If you have Zinc in mix, dropping them into water will cause the Zinc on surface to "React" with the water, causing a dry film, that will interfere with bonding of the coating.
5. The next problem may be, simply using too much first coat, and then not drying enough before baking. How do you test if the first coat is dry or not before baking?
Please look at simple things, one item at a time.

As Tazza suggested, have you slugged your bore to measure internal diameter and then match your bore sizing requirements accordingly.

1. I'm certain there's no zinc. I have hand seperated out everything that's not a lead clipon weight. Though its not impossible I have missed some.
2. The only lube that goes on my molds is the stuff that comes with mihecs molds. And that's only a drop on all the pins. Nothing goes in the cavities.
3. Water quench is solely for convenience. I hadn't hoped to gain any additional hardness as they probably lose whatever benefit when they're baked.

5. I've never tested the coating before baking. They're dried to the touch with a fan then left on top of the convection oven. They'd be either in moving air or on top of the oven for at least 30minutes before baking.

I've slugged the bore and the biggest grooves are .3574 hence sizing to .358

What is the way to test the coating is properly dried ?

Aside from that I will take Trevs suggestion on board and buy some alloy from northern smelters.

[Gremlin460]

Sent you a msg..

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Gatch;4719754]1. I'm certain there's no zinc.

My reply After casting place some into hydrochloric Acid that is mixed with water at least 1 to 1, (concrete cleaning Acid available in hardware stores) If there is Zinc present the cast will fizz, as Zinc will start to dissolve in the acid.
3. Water quench is solely for convenience. I hadn't hoped to gain any additional hardness as they probably lose whatever benefit when they're baked.
Unless you are sure that you get a benefit, stop water quenching

5. I've never tested the coating before baking. They're dried to the touch with a fan then left on top of the convection oven. They'd be either in moving air or on top of the oven for at least 30minutes before baking.

What is the way to test the coating is properly dried ?
Aeasy, warm air dry coated cast to about 50C for about 1/2 hour. Take a few, bake at 200C, take it out and examine very thoroughly. If surface has fine blisters, (Orange Peel) it was not dry. Keep drying, and after a while repeat test a few only. Then after the test samples pass all tests, only then bake the rest.

[Shotgundrums]

1. I'm certain there's no zinc. I have hand seperated out everything that's not a lead clipon weight. Though its not impossible I have missed some.
2. The only lube that goes on my molds is the stuff that comes with mihecs molds. And that's only a drop on all the pins. Nothing goes in the cavities.
3. Water quench is solely for convenience. I hadn't hoped to gain any additional hardness as they probably lose whatever benefit when they're baked.

5. I've never tested the coating before baking. They're dried to the touch with a fan then left on top of the convection oven. They'd be either in moving air or on top of the oven for at least 30minutes before baking.

I've slugged the bore and the biggest grooves are .3574 hence sizing to .358

What is the way to test the coating is properly dried ?

Aside from that I will take Trevs suggestion on board and buy some alloy from northern smelters.

Bruh, with clip-on wheel weights...eh... you could be right. But, I was chasing my tail with this once. I had bullets pass the smash and wipe test. BUT...they would fail the smash test a week or so down the road. Zinc in your alloy does this weird electrolytic thing, and oxides will push the coating away from the slug.
If this isn’t your situation, softer alloy slugs can swage down in the case and ultimately be undersized, causing gas cutting.
If this isn’t your experience, there could be errors in your barrel. If the barrel is throated too long ( the bullet fully exits the case before sealing in gas path in the bore) you’ll get leading. If there are loose spots in your bore, you’ll get leading thereafter. If the leade of your rifling is steep you’ll get leading. If your bore is rough, you’ll get leading.
These are some of my findings. Good luck.
P.S.
There’s no way to know whether you do or do not have zinc in your alloy without burning a sample in a specialized Spec-A. Get some foundry hardball like Trevor mentioned and go from there. Can’t hurt.

Josh

[Michael J. Spangler]

[QUOTE=Gatch;4719754]1. I'm certain there's no zinc.

My reply After casting place some into hydrochloric Acid that is mixed with water at least 1 to 1, (concrete cleaning Acid available in hardware stores) If there is Zinc present the cast will fizz, as Zinc will start to dissolve in the acid.
3. Water quench is solely for convenience. I hadn't hoped to gain any additional hardness as they probably lose whatever benefit when they're baked.
Unless you are sure that you get a benefit, stop water quenching

5. I've never tested the coating before baking. They're dried to the touch with a fan then left on top of the convection oven. They'd be either in moving air or on top of the oven for at least 30minutes before baking.

What is the way to test the coating is properly dried ?
Aeasy, warm air dry coated cast to about 50C for about 1/2 hour. Take a few, bake at 200C, take it out and examine very thoroughly. If surface has fine blisters, (Orange Peel) it was not dry. Keep drying, and after a while repeat test a few only. Then after the test samples pass all tests, only then bake the rest.


Joe how much zinc will cause this issue? Would a couple clip on weights in 100 pounds batch do the trick? Or do you need to have more than that?
I'm kind of careful when I smelt my clip ons, keeping the temp just in the slushy stage, mashing the weights down into the melt constantly so it doesn't get overly hot. I never have issues where zinc ruins the alloy but I wouldn't doubt that a little gets mixed in there.
I just can't bother taking the time to sort through everything.


GATCH. If you're water dropping before coating you don't need to. If there are is zinc present then as Joe said water dropping can cause an issue.
Also the hardness from dropping is lost when you heat the bullets back up to bake the coating.
If I need extra hardness I water drop the coated bullets after baking the last coat. Seems to work great for me in everything from 38 special up to full house 44 mag and 300 blackout.

[glaciers]

[QUOTE=Michael J. Spangler;4719791][QUOTE=HI-TEK;4719778]


Joe how much zinc will cause this issue? Would a couple clip on weights in 100 pounds batch do the trick? Or do you need to have more than that?
I'm kind of careful when I smelt my clip ons, keeping the temp just in the slushy stage, mashing the weights down into the melt constantly so it doesn't get overly hot. I never have issues where zinc ruins the alloy but I wouldn't doubt that a little gets mixed in there.
I just can't bother taking the time to sort through everything.

Michael this is what I do and it sounds about what you are doing. Below is my method, and a question.
It's my understanding that zinc melts at a higher temperature than range scrap and COWW. I melt my COWW as you are doing thinking the zinc WW will not melt or mix. I did have a zinc WW get by my inspection and it did float to the top and did not look like it was going to slump/melt.
I was under the impression that keeping the temp under the melting point of zinc which is 787* would be a check against zinc contamination. I never let my melt for casting or making ingots go over 725*, but try to stay no higher the 700*. I check melt with 2 thermometers which agree with each other.

I sort and then melt at under 725*
Most of my WW are older so I've found some, but very few zinc WW.

So my question is: is there a better way?

[Michael J. Spangler]

I’m guessing sorting is the only “better” way
Too much time and effort for me though.

When possible I like to get scrap roofing lead and alloy in lino and lead shot to make my alloy.

[Gatch]

I'm heading to Northern smelters tonight for some hardball. Hopefully that will help

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Michael J. Spangler;4719791][QUOTE=HI-TEK;4719778]


Joe
Question 1. how much zinc will cause this issue?

So my question...2. is: is there a better way?

My answer to Q1 is,
it does not take much Zinc at all to cause problems. The quantity.... is a case of how long is a piece of string.... Despite Zinc not being melted and skimmed off surface of Lead, there will be some Zinc that has dissolved. No problems, if user take appropriate steps.
Simplest is to cast using that alloy mix. Then soak cast in Hydrochloric acid pre-diluted with water, (1 part Acid to 2 parts water). This soak, will dissolve all surface available Zinc from the cast. Then simply wash and dry, then coat as normal.
The Acid treatment will leave a very porous surface which is ideal to coat with Hi-Tek.

My answer to Q2
Another way is to use Copper Sulphate crystals on the melted alloy. The Zinc will be extracted from alloy mix and is replaced by the Copper from the Copper Sulphate. The residue left on top of the melted metal will contain the Zinc as Zinc Sulphate and can be skimmed off easily. The Copper to an extent will be incorporated into the alloy mix, which is not a problem.
You may have to use this treatment a few times, to ensure that you maximise removal of the Zinc, and this treatment will also remove things like Aluminium, and Magnesium as well.
Then simply cast some. Cool and test hardness. If all is OK, then coat with Hi-Tek as normal.

[Gatch]

I think I'll also cast enough for another 5lb batch of the coww+2% and give them a wash in HCl. See how that goes.

Thank you for the help gentlemen.

[Michael J. Spangler]

[QUOTE=glaciers;4719892][QUOTE=Michael J. Spangler;4719791]

My answer to Q1 is,
it does not take much Zinc at all to cause problems. The quantity.... is a case of how long is a piece of string.... Despite Zinc not being melted and skimmed off surface of Lead, there will be some Zinc that has dissolved. No problems, if user take appropriate steps.
Simplest is to cast using that alloy mix. Then soak cast in Hydrochloric acid pre-diluted with water, (1 part Acid to 2 parts water). This soak, will dissolve all surface available Zinc from the cast. Then simply wash and dry, then coat as normal.
The Acid treatment will leave a very porous surface which is ideal to coat with Hi-Tek.

My answer to Q2
Another way is to use Copper Sulphate crystals on the melted alloy. The Zinc will be extracted from alloy mix and is replaced by the Copper from the Copper Sulphate. The residue left on top of the melted metal will contain the Zinc as Zinc Sulphate and can be skimmed off easily. The Copper to an extent will be incorporated into the alloy mix, which is not a problem.
You may have to use this treatment a few times, to ensure that you maximise removal of the Zinc, and this treatment will also remove things like Aluminium, and Magnesium as well.
Then simply cast some. Cool and test hardness. If all is OK, then coat with Hi-Tek as normal.

Great info joe!
Thank you!

[Avenger442]

What Joe says about the copper sulfate works. In a long process that was successful in making a tougher bullet, I intentionally contaminated some alloy with zinc and used copper sulfate to remove the zinc and put copper into the alloy. There must be a metal in the alloy for the copper to replace. The bullets coated well and shot as well as any other I had used. You can actually produce a lower BHN alloy that is as tough as nails. But for me that process was too long and frankly didn't produce any better performance, the end zone for me, than I was getting out of my wheel weight alloyed with tin. But if I had an alloy that I suspected of being contaminated with zinc that process is an option. And, unlike acid, it removes zinc from the whole cast bullet.

Copper sulfate is easily obtainable at any hardware store in the form of root killer. Just read the ingredients on the side to make sure. Putting it in the melt should be done a little at a time, probably a teaspoon, and stirred in. There are discussions on this forum on how to do it safely and when you have achieved the removal of zinc.

I've said this before and believe that it applies to most hobby casters. Because of the cost of alloy metal from a foundry, almost twice per pound, I only use wheel weights and scrap soft lead from a scrap yard. I am allowed to sort through the weights at the yard so I buy only lead. Sorting is easy with a big pair of side cutter pliers. If they will not bite into it it goes back in the bin. I have never had any indications of zinc contamination. I have had coating that was applied too thick come off. So I coat real thin. My rifles love this stuff.

But, if I were producing a commercial product I would probably be using foundry lead alloy and rolling the cost into the product. It would be simpler, less time and have additional spread of liability. But as a hobby caster it just doesn't make financial sense if you are careful. And anyone that knows me knows how tight, I prefer thrifty, I am will tell you I lean in the direction of a thrifty on everything. The rest pays my bills.:bigsmyl2:

[slide]

I will have to agree with Avenger. I know with my money situation I can't buy alloy. That is why I dig out of the berm at the range. It is a lot of work but I have no other option. So far I have not had any problems coating what I dig.

[Tazza]

I will have to agree with Avenger. I know with my money situation I can't buy alloy. That is why I dig out of the berm at the range. It is a lot of work but I have no other option. So far I have not had any problems coating what I dig.

Same here, it's a stupidly large process, but the stuff i mine is free, it's just a matter of time spent getting it and cleaning. I think i nearly killed my brother when he last helped me do some mining in the middle of summer, I ended up with about 300kg of ingots, but we were digging for a good 6 hours..... We were both buggered.

[Avenger442]

There is a shooting range about a half mile from my house. I don't shoot there for the same reason I don't usually buy alloy. The expense and can shoot free other places. The owner lets me mine the berms some. I don't do it much for the same reason Tazza mentioned. It is less work to just to sort and buy it from the scrap yard at .40 / pound. I can get 100 pounds for $40. Roto Metals is about $300 for 100 pounds plus shipping. I've been wanting to go to the new indoor range and see if I can get some there. There is money to be saved by the guy who is willing to scrounge and work for it.

But I guess Joe has a point. It is possible to contaminate a melt with scrap yard stuff.

Loading up some .45 auto for some fun shooting. Longshot and Hi Tec bullets, of course. Daughter and Granddaughters will probably find out about them and shoot them all like last time. Can't think of much more fun than watching them shoot up a couple thousand at the range. The youngest one is a better hand gun shooter than any of us. All of them, through the use of them, have been taught to be safe, respect, and be responsible using guns. Probably will load some .44 magnum, too. They don't like to shoot that one. I'll have to hide the .308.:brokenima

[Tazza]

You are spot on that there are saving to be made if you are willing to work it, but it's one thing you have to work out what your time is worth. If i did my sums and worked on an hourly rate, my mining of the mounds at my club would probably not be worth it. It keeps me off the streets and helps pay for my shooting.

I could do the sums of what hourly rate i was working this for, but it would make me sad.

[Gatch]

I get frustrated with people who react with the standard "but if you factored in your time" line. I mean, I get it, but if you apply that logic to everything that consumes your money or time, we would all be working 84hr weeks. We wouldn't cook, clean, mow, service, reload or probably even own our own vehicles. It is almost always more efficient to send the job to a professional.

[Avenger442]

I never got paid what I was worth anyway:bigsmyl2:

[Tazza]

I get frustrated with people who react with the standard "but if you factored in your time" line. I mean, I get it, but if you apply that logic to everything that consumes your money or time, we would all be working 84hr weeks. We wouldn't cook, clean, mow, service, reload or probably even own our own vehicles. It is almost always more efficient to send the job to a professional.

The logic with my comment is, say you're a builder earning $50/hour. Your lawn needs mowing, the mower dood charges $25/hr it is better economics to pay someone to do the work for you. I personally don't factor in my time, i do things myself because i like to or i feel i will do the job the way i want it done.

[Gatch]

The logic with my comment is, say you're a builder earning $50/hour. Your lawn needs mowing, the mower dood charges $25/hr it is better economics to pay someone to do the work for you. I personally don't factor in my time, i do things myself because i like to or i feel i will do the job the way i want it done.

My thoughts are directed at the people who look down on reloaders or god forbid casters..

I had to deal with a chap who cant fathom shooting anything other than factory ammo. The gunsmith cleans his guns...

Another dude recoiled in horror when I said I was interested in casting. "BUT YOUR TIME WAHHH"... pretty short conversation that was ha

[Ausglock]

We (my Business partner and I) do not take a wage from our bullet business. We both have day jobs and make bullets part time. We buy 2,6,92 alloy because we don't have the time to mine or visit scrappies.

Whatever we make from the business, goes back into it. More molds, Boxes, alloy, shipping cartons and coating etc etc.
We rent a factory, so rent and power costs have to be made as well as loan repayment for the initial setup cost.
If we were to do it full time and take a wage from the business, we would have to charge double what we are currently charging for bullets.
I don't know how the big bullet makers actually make any money.
I have about another 3 years until I retire from the sawmill/flooring business, so then can make bullets for longer periods rather than an hour of an arvo and 5 hrs of a Saturday.

[Michael J. Spangler]

We (my Business partner and I) do not take a wage from our bullet business. We both have day jobs and make bullets part time. We buy 2,6,92 alloy because we don't have the time to mine or visit scrappies.

Whatever we make from the business, goes back into it. More molds, Boxes, alloy, shipping cartons and coating etc etc.
We rent a factory, so rent and power costs have to be made as well as loan repayment for the initial setup cost.
If we were to do it full time and take a wage from the business, we would have to charge double what we are currently charging for bullets.
I don't know how the big bullet makers actually make any money.
I have about another 3 years until I retire from the sawmill/flooring business, so then can make bullets for longer periods rather than an hour of an arvo and 5 hrs of a Saturday.

Trevor

When you retire will you make any money or will you just spend more time not making money?
I'm wondering if it's a lack of volume or if it's a lack or profit margin? Or both? :shock:

I'm dealing with a restaurant right now that's closing it's doors. Not due to lack of margin but lack of volume. He has a good profit margin but just not enough butts in the seats.


I've always toyed with commercial casting and just about every thread I read asking about it says don't bother because you'll lose all your money. I was considering doing it like you. Couple hours here and there and a full day on the weekend. Pay off the equipment and build a nice side business for retirement (in 33 or so more years)

[Elkins45]

How hot can your curing oven be before it starts to damage the coating? I would like to try water quenching a batch of bullets after the last coat. I don’t want to get them so hot it defeats the purpose, but the hotter they are the more benefit I will get in terms of hardness increase.

[Ausglock]

MJS.... It is a volume thing.
By only doing part time, We just can't make enough bullets.

We are actually turning customers away simply because we can't produce enough.

Elkins45. Once you go over 200Deg C the coating darkens, but will still work.

[Tazza]

MJS.... It is a volume thing.
By only doing part time, We just can't make enough bullets.

We are actually turning customers away simply because we can't produce enough.



I feel it's better to turn people away than to rush things and sell "crap" i have had people after more than i had, thankfully they have been happy to wait for me to do them. I won't cut corners, i'll never send something out the door that i'm not happy with. If i rushed, there is always the potential for them not to come out right. When i cast too fast, heat builds up and i have actually had bent projectiles due to them still being plyable when leaving the mould, when they hit another projectile, they bend or some fused to another.

[Ausglock]

I had a day off today. spent 7 hours on the Autocaster. run out 21,000 127SWC for an order to Thursday Island.
Tomorrow I start coating and baking.

[HI-TEK]

I had a day off today. spent 7 hours on the Autocaster. run out 21,000 127SWC for an order to Thursday Island.
Tomorrow I start coating and baking.

You gave away a days pay of doing nothing, :coffee: to lifting Lead all day????
That is a bit sus.:veryconfu

[Ausglock]

You gave away a days pay of doing nothing, :coffee: to lifting Lead all day????
That is a bit sus.:veryconfu

And I coated your latest DG additive. Bake tomorrow 1st coat.

[Gatch]

Had an idea. I've been water dropping into a galvanised bucket, I wonder if that would effect the hitek coating

[Avenger442]

How hot can your curing oven be before it starts to damage the coating? I would like to try water quenching a batch of bullets after the last coat. I don’t want to get them so hot it defeats the purpose, but the hotter they are the more benefit I will get in terms of hardness increase.

You will melt the lead before you damage the coating. Like Trevor said, it will turn dark but still perform the lubrication you need for no leading.

[Gatch]

Cast 2 batches with hardball tonight. Not water dropped. Coated one batch, then acid washed and coated another. Will bake and coat a second time tomorrow.

[HI-TEK]

Cast 2 batches with hardball tonight. Not water dropped. Coated one batch, then acid washed and coated another. Will bake and coat a second time tomorrow.

Just curious.. and.... I am at a loss.....why did you do this with the hardball alloy????
did this alloy fizz or produce any bubbles? If it is a 2:6:92 alloy, you should have gotten no reaction with the acid.

If I remember correctly, I asked you to cast some of your Mystery alloy and acid treat it, to see if you then get an acid reaction (bubbling or fizz), and subsequently, proper adhesion.

[Gatch]

Sorry I tried some coww+2% in the acid and it had no visible reaction. No bubbling or noticable change in temp. I figured if my bottom pour pot or the galv bucket I use to coat the bullets was the culprit that I would eliminate that by acid washing a batch of the new foundry lead.

[Ausglock]

In all the years we have been using 2.6.92 alloy from Northern Smelters, we have never had bonding issues. They make good stuff.
also... just a thought.... you ARE using Acetone..... Diggers brand or similar from Bunnings, not Supercheap general purpose thinners???

[Gatch]

Definitely acetone. With the amounts properly measured out.

[HI-TEK]

Sorry I tried some coww+2% in the acid and it had no visible reaction. No bubbling or noticable change in temp. I figured if my bottom pour pot or the galv bucket I use to coat the bullets was the culprit that I would eliminate that by acid washing a batch of the new foundry lead.

Just a few questions;
1. How long did you soak in acid the "mystery" alloy? You say no visible reaction.
(There may have been no visible reaction)
2. Did you try and coat the "mystery" alloy after washing and drying it?
3. Did you use the Galvanized bucket to acid wash? If not what did you use?
4. What was acid mix, (water and Acid)?
5. Did you closely examine surface of acid washed (mystery) alloy?... and was there any change in surface appearance?
6. I again ask, why did you acid wash the foundry alloy, and, in what container did you do the acid wash of the foundry metal? I don't think that you would have seen any change in foundry metal after acid wash.
Please advise with more details.

[Gremlin460]

I still got those coated casts for you to try Gatch...

[Gatch]

Just a few questions;
1. How long did you soak in acid the "mystery" alloy? You say no visible reaction.
(There may have been no visible reaction)
about 20minutes
2. Did you try and coat the "mystery" alloy after washing and drying it?
I didn't. I thought that not seeing any real reaction indicated it wasn't the lead mix that is the problem, that maybe it was something else that I'm doing
3. Did you use the Galvanized bucket to acid wash? If not what did you use?
definitely not. The best thing I could think of was an ldpe bucket. I will try coating in a plastic bucket and see if that helps
4. What was acid mix, (water and Acid)?
1 HCL:2 Water
5. Did you closely examine surface of acid washed (mystery) alloy?... and was there any change in surface appearance?
yes. The surface of all the bullets become a very uniform dull grey. They didnt feel as smooth as when they were fresh cast. Almost like they had been lightly sanded.
6. I again ask, why did you acid wash the foundry alloy, and, in what container did you do the acid wash of the foundry metal? I don't think that you would have seen any change in foundry metal after acid wash.
Please advise with more details.
I wanted to see if the foundry lead would do anything different to the scrap lead I've been using. And it didn't. it looked the same dull grey after sitting in the acid for a bit

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=Gatch;4723706]
5. Did you closely examine surface of acid washed (mystery) alloy?... and was there any change in surface appearance?
yes. The surface of all the bullets become a very uniform dull grey. They didn't feel as smooth as when they were fresh cast. Almost like they had been lightly sanded.

Gatch,
That is exactly what I was hoping to happen. The surface, after acid wash, will look like sandblasted surface and if magnified will look porous. That is exactly what will allow good bonding by the removal of materials that may have interfered with bonding in the first place. You should have washed dried and coated this acid treated alloy. I am sure that results would be much different to your first one.

[Petander]

[QUOTE=Gatch;4723706]
5. Did you closely examine surface of acid washed (mystery) alloy?... and was there any change in surface appearance?
yes. The surface of all the bullets become a very uniform dull grey. They didn't feel as smooth as when they were fresh cast. Almost like they had been lightly sanded.

Gatch,
That is exactly what I was hoping to happen. The surface, after acid wash, will look like sandblasted surface and if magnified will look porous. That is exactly what will allow good bonding by the removal of materials that may have interfered with bonding in the first place. You should have washed dried and coated this acid treated alloy. I am sure that results would be much different to your first one.

Yes,that is exactly what I'm doing to get good bonding.

My fresh cast bullets look shiny, like chromed. I soak them all overnight in HCL (30%) so they become dull grey. Rinse them up and dry. Coat. Great bonding.

My alloy contaminant is trace amounts of Niobium, got it XRF:d after struggling with my initial coating problems. HCL soak solved it all and happens by itself. I soak everything I cast.

[Gatch]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4723713]

Yes,that is exactly what I'm doing to get good bonding.

My fresh cast bullets look shiny, like chromed. I soak them all overnight in HCL (30%) so they become dull grey. Rinse them up and dry. Coat. Great bonding.

My alloy contaminant is trace amounts of Niobium, got it XRF:d after struggling with my initial coating problems. HCL soak solved it all and happens by itself. I soak everything I cast.

That's good feedback. Thanks mate

[Gremlin460]

Today:-
Beretta 92FS inox, 200 rounds 358dia - No leading
S&W 1911 pro Series 85 rounds 356 dia - No leading.
Colt Python 6" 50 38 spl & 50 357 mag , both 358 LSWC - No Leading

:)

[jsizemore]

I don't know if this helps with folk's bonding issues. I usually lube the top of the blocks and sprue plate with 2 cycle lube. If I do that in the middle of a casting session coating bond is an issue. Now at the end of a casting session I'll lube rather heavily with the lubed Q-tip and those bullets and the next 5-6 casts get returned to the pot. By the time I cast again there are no issues as a result of lube contamination.

[Ausglock]

I used to use the 2 stroke oil. But since moving to the Hitek mold release/sprueplate lube, every bullet is good from the get go.
dip a Qtip and wipe it over the mold top. drys instantly and will last for over 25,000 bullets on the autocaster.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I used to use the 2 stroke oil. But since moving to the Hitek mold release/sprueplate lube, every bullet is good from the get go.
dip a Qtip and wipe it over the mold top. drys instantly and will last for over 25,000 bullets on the autocaster.

So there is not chance of contamination with this release spray?

[Ausglock]

So there is not chance of contamination with this release spray?

None at all. The coating works perfectly on bullets from molds that have been sprayed with the HITEK release agent.

[Michael J. Spangler]

None at all. The coating works perfectly on bullets from molds that have been sprayed with the HITEK release agent.

Time to place an order I guess. Do you know if Donnie carries this stuff?

[Burnt Fingers]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/sizing-lube/

Quicker to check the website than type the question.

[Michael J. Spangler]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/sizing-lube/

Quicker to check the website than type the question.


Forgive me for asking questions on a forum. I'll try not to do it again

Also you linked to the wrong product. I had check Donnie's website and didn't see it listed. It's listed on bayou but I prefer to buy from Donnie. I believe he sold Bayou Bullets

[Ausglock]

yep... link to wrong stuff.

The sizing lube is Aqualube.
The mold release is some other weird Joe stupid number stuff..

Joe....FFS.... sort out the naming of your products...

[Tazza]

yep... link to wrong stuff.

The sizing lube is Aqualube.
The mold release is some other weird Joe stupid number stuff..

Joe....FFS.... sort out the naming of your products...

500 plus was the plate lube i got off him.

I should give some aqualube a go, i have been casting some 158s but my sizer every so often just flips me off. After coating they are about .360, i pushed about 20 through un-coated without any issues through a .357 die, but after coating some just refused to play, i wonder if aqualube would have helped me with this. I'm going to try and do some progressive sizing, .359, then .358, then .357 see if it fixes my issues. I just need to make said dies though..... More steps that i really didn't need, in the future i may try and size after applying and cooking one coat, then apply 2 more after then size again.

[wlkjr]

You shouldn't size before applying the Hi-Tek coating. Apply at least one coat and then size. Using the Aqualube will definitely make the sizing easier. I put mine in a plastic bag and spritz some on and roll them around and let dry about 5 minutes before sizing.

[Tazza]

You shouldn't size before applying the Hi-Tek coating. Apply at least one coat and then size. Using the Aqualube will definitely make the sizing easier. I put mine in a plastic bag and spritz some on and roll them around and let dry about 5 minutes before sizing.

I did a few just as a test to ensure they weren't dropping too big, i normally never size before as i always thought straight lead through a sizing die could lead to leading it up.

I think some aqualube may be given a go, i remember getting a box of projectiles years ago that were slick as, it's possible that they were coated in it from that manufacturer. Been so long, i have no clue who it was.

[Gatch]

I did a few just as a test to ensure they weren't dropping too big, i normally never size before as i always thought straight lead through a sizing die could lead to leading it up.

I think some aqualube may be given a go, i remember getting a box of projectiles years ago that were slick as, it's possible that they were coated in it from that manufacturer. Been so long, i have no clue who it was.

If you purchase some, dilute it. It goes a LONG way

[Tazza]

If you purchase some, dilute it. It goes a LONG way

I'll have to hit up Joe next time i get more hi-tek off him

[Michael J. Spangler]

PM sent

Thank you Donnie. Superb customer service as always.

[Balta]

Mold?

[Balta]

Mold?


1st batch of candy apple red came out fantastic. Wipe and smash test were perfect !

246414

Mold?

[HI-TEK]

yep... link to wrong stuff.

The sizing lube is Aqualube.
The mold release is some other weird Joe stupid number stuff..

Joe....FFS.... sort out the naming of your products...

Sorry Ausglock, I must clarify
Sizing Lube comes as a liquid concentrate, and is called Aqualube 3000 and there is Aqualube 5000. The difference is particle size of colloidal suspension.
They both work interchangeably. Both need very large dilutions of the concentrate before use, and usually about 5-10 mls concentrate to 1 litre denatured Alcohol. The dilute mixture is tumble coated and dried before sizing.

The Mold Release is HI-TEK-LUBE 500+. This is available as an aerosol, or as a 100% powdered version.
This is used on all surfaces to provide unequalled metal release and lubrication up to 800C.
Obviously, the aerosol is sprayed onto surfaces. The powder is applied very very sparingly, with a small bristle brush, 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch,(not plastic or synthetic bristles) to all surfaces hot or cold, to stop Lead sticking or hold up inside the Mold.
On Sprue cutters, it is applied from a mix, of about 1 teaspoon of the powdered version, pre-mixed into denatured alcohol, using an eye dropper type system, and applied Sprue cutter pivot joint until pivot post area is filled. This stuff dry lubricates the pivot joint of Sprue cutter without migrating contamination and has best property of preventing Lead spatter adhesion.
Reports by commercial casters is, that the "tappers " on casting machines become mostly redundant as cast alloy falls out of Molds upon opening.
Further old Moulds with pitting, and which hold up cast alloy, can be coated to loosely brush fill pitted area, and all internal surfaces, and cast produced simply fall out.
I hope that this clear this name and use matters

[PAT303]

Can I purchase the mold release in Perth or have it shipped to Perth?.

[Tazza]

Can I purchase the mold release in Perth or have it shipped to Perth?.

No reason why Joe can't ship the powder over there, i know you guys have some horrible regulations of moving gun powder or loaded ammo over the border. I'm in Brisbane and got some off him with my last order, but we don't have the same BS regulations you guys do.

[Ausglock]

See... all the numbers make it confusing.
Why not just name them.

Hitek Mold release
Hitek Sprueplate Lube
Hitek Sizing lube

Makes it far easier for use and ordering.
Who cares about your internal number system?

We do not need to know all your number Mumbo Jumbo.

[Tazza]

See... all the numbers make it confusing.
Why not just name them.

Hitek Mold release
Hitek Sprueplate Lube
Hitek Sizing lube

Makes it far easier for use and ordering.
Who cares about your internal number system?

We do not need to know all your number Mumbo Jumbo.

I rekon he does it cause it bugs you :) This is his way of getting revenge.... slowly, the whole death by a thousand cuts!

[Ausglock]

you are probably right..
I just like burring him up..

[Tazza]

you are probably right..
I just like burring him up..

I've noticed that

Good thing is, he's a nice bloke and knows you aren't serious, I'm waiting for the day he retaliates by threatening to withhold some new fancy product he has developed :)

[HI-TEK]

Can I purchase the mold release in Perth or have it shipped to Perth?.

PAT 303
Sent you a PM

[Gatch]

Mold?

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/alternative-coating-molds/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-6-cav-brass-nlg-mold

I also bought this one from mp.

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/alternative-coating-molds/mp-356-130-2r-8-cav-bevel-base-no-lube-groove

[Tazza]

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/alternative-coating-molds/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-6-cav-brass-nlg-mold

I also bought this one from mp.

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/alternative-coating-molds/mp-356-130-2r-8-cav-bevel-base-no-lube-groove

No lube groove will make them drop a lot easier, they look good though.

Some people had issues with my 125 conicals that had a lube groove, they had issues stabilizing due to not as much bearing surface, no lube groove generally fixes that. I think that's why Ausglock does a lot of his without lube grooves.

I have some western action boys that need the grooves to crimp into, so those moulds are perfect for them.

[Ausglock]

We still use the 125gn Conical with lube groove.
It is the most popular bullet for Open Div Major power factor.
Closely followed by the 127gn SWC

[Tazza]

I too have found 125 conical is the most popular around me too, it's what i always used in my open gun.

[hunter74]

125 TC from Magma moulds are the most popular boolits around here too. Traditional lube groove. The IPSIC guys go through them fast both in open and production guns. Many shoot them at 1400 fts in their open guns and they're very pleased with the coating. Both comp and bores are spotless.

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

[Gatch]

125 TC from Magma moulds are the most popular boolits around here too. Traditional lube groove. The IPSIC guys go through them fast both in open and production guns. Many shoot them at 1400 fts in their open guns and they're very pleased with the coating. Both comp and bores are spotless.

Sent fra min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

Thats lucky. I have the 125gr tc mold on order with the master cast :)

[Petander]

I have some western action boys that need the grooves to crimp into, so those moulds are perfect for them..

A Lee collet crimp die does an excellent job with totally grooveless Hi Tek -bullets. I shoot a 4" 500 S&W using full house VV N110 loads with a NOE grooveless 325 grain mold. No setback,no leading.

That black crud is graphite...

248520

248521

[Michael J. Spangler]

.

A Lee collet crimp die does an excellent job with totally grooveless Hi Tek -bullets. I shoot a 4" 500 S&W using full house VV N110 loads with a NOE grooveless 325 grain mold. No setback,no leading.

That black crud is graphite...

248520

248521

Great pics as always.
What is the function of the graphite?

[Balta]

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/alternative-coating-molds/9mm-38-147-rn-bb-6-cav-brass-nlg-mold

I also bought this one from mp.

https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/alternative-coating-molds/mp-356-130-2r-8-cav-bevel-base-no-lube-groove

Thx..little to heavy for my taste.I also have 1302R NLG,but having issues with this boolit to chamber in CZ Shadow 2 in ,for me comfortable COL. I mainly use a 135 grain NLG from MP Mold,this boolit works perfect in every gun i try,i shoot them also in IPSC production.

[jsizemore]

It's been 9 days without a word from down under. I'm getting a little worried. Did Oz sink?

[Ausglock]

It's been 9 days without a word from down under. I'm getting a little worried. Did Oz sink?

hahahahahaha...


No.. We are still here..lol

Joe has sent 24 new coatings to test.
I have made 8000 135gn RN to use for the testing.

The old Rose Red liquid coating has been made into a powder and is still one of my favourite reds.
There is a new Caramel (Carmel to you northerners) colour.

Have tried a few violets, but no luck with them.
The pinks are still elusive, but getting closer.
Joe sent some new mixes to try for a brighter Blue, so I have a lot of tests still to do.

[Tazza]

We are all still here, didn't sink, but may have dried out with the lack of rain in these parts.

Interesting news Trevor, hope they work out well. Haven't heard from Joe recently, so good to hear he is still churning out his powders. Seems you haven't managed to offend him enough to cut you off from his supplies :)

[Ausglock]

One interesting thing to come from testing for a Blue, is that I dropped my bake temp from 200Deg C for 7min:30sec to 195deg C for 7min 30 sec. this 5 deg drop has made a fair difference to the final colour.
I was surprised how much lighter in colour some of the coatings have baked. Even the Kryptonite Green that I use all the time is a lighter green. The wipe and smash tests still pass with flying colours..

[Tazza]

Very nice, it really shows temperature does make a difference. Joe was saying it needed 180c for 8 minutes to cure wasn't it? so lower temperatures but for longer to ensure they reach the 180c should still cure and retain a lighter colour.

[Ausglock]

the Alloy has to remain at or above 180Deg C for a minimum of 3 minutes....The Alloy Temp.... not the oven temp.

[Avenger442]

That's 356 Deg F for you guys who don't speak metric so you will not have to look it up.:smile: I preheat my oven to the temp and then put the bullets in. Normally I bake mine around 400 F bullet temperature for 12 minutes. And they are a little darker. When I want it to be closer in color I drop the temp and time. I've had cured bullets as low as 360 F and 10 minutes. Never tried anything lower than that temp. and 8 minutes. Of course everybody's oven is a little different, air circulation, ability to recover etc.

Waiting on the new Auburn Orange and Blue.

Been dry and hot here, too. Good news is the humidity has finally let up. Was running in the 80% range for a while. Coating drys real good a 30% humidity.
Was doing some reading on high seasonal temperatures and it looks like it was hotter here back in the 1920s and 30s than now by about 10 F. Humidity was high then, too. I can remember a summer in 1977 when it was 108 in the shade where I was in Tennessee. Humidity was awful. We didn't have an air conditioner and my aunt took pity and bought a window unit for us. To top it off my wife was pregnant with our first child. She really was suffering.