simple Hi-Tek coating

[Ausglock]

most of them go to 250 deg C.

When you get one, also get a digi thermometer off ebay to verify the temp. Most of these cheap ovens are way off on their settings.

[Balta]

Yes but how to KNOW that is dry enough for baking?

[PAT303]

Righto,so baking temp is 200,is that right?. Pat

[Ausglock]

Yes but how to KNOW that is dry enough for baking?
Give it 30 minutes. If it is very humid, use a fan t help the acetone flash off.
Suck it and see.

[Ausglock]

bake 200 deg C for 10 to 12 minutes

[PAT303]

Trevor,thank you. Pat

[Moonman]

Kryogen,

In USA Gateway Bullets sells the Powder HI-TEK in 3 1/2 oz containers.

Don't know if Bayou Bullets has the powder yet?

[HI-TEK]

Kryogen,

In USA Gateway Bullets sells the Powder HI-TEK in 3 1/2 oz containers.

Don't know if Bayou Bullets has the powder yet?

Moonman

Bayou should be getting delivery in about 3 weeks. They will have a range of powdered Hi-Tek, and if they are repacking to hobbyists, the repacks may not be available immediately.
Contacting them is best way to get updates and availability.

[kryogen]

I am placing an order from gateway as soon as they can confirm that they ship usps to canada. Probably wont be getting a reply before monday I guess.

[Moonman]

HI-TEK,

Thank You

Kryogen,

Try Gateway Bullets, then Bayou Bullets for possible
Canadian shipment.

[prickett]

HI-TEK,

Thank You

Kryogen,

Try Gateway Bullets, then Bayou Bullets for possible
Canadian shipment.

I left Gateway a message but never got an answer. Can someone here answer? Does a 7 oz container of powder cover as many boolits as 1 liter of the liquid?

[HI-TEK]

I left Gateway a message but never got an answer. Can someone here answer? Does a 7 oz container of powder cover as many boolits as 1 liter of the liquid?

One kilo, (about 2.2lbs) of powdered coating, will make about 2.5 litre liquid coating.
Rough calculations are that one litre of liquid coating, should coat about 30,000 to 35,000 projectiles.
So, working on 30,000 per litre, 2,2lbs of powdered system should coat about 66,000 coated twice.
For powdered system, roughly, 7 oz is close enough to 200gms or 1/5th of a kilo. So, 1/5th of 30,000 coated projectiles is about 6,000 projectiles, double coated.

[HI-TEK]

I am placing an order from gateway as soon as they can confirm that they ship usps to canada. Probably wont be getting a reply before monday I guess.


I suspect, that Gateway and or Bayou may not be able to send stuff to Canada.
You can try, and if all fails just send me a PM so I can try and assist.

[kryogen]

gateway didnt reply to my email.
bayou has it incoming and they will ship to canada, but I don't really feel like waiting one more month....

[leadman]

I recently bought an Arisaka 6.5 and an Italian Carcano 6.5 rifle. Both have bores of .268". Right now there are no jacketed .268" bullet available from Hornady. I do have a mold on order.
Hi-tek has stated that this coating has been used on jacketed bullets so I cleaned some 140gr Rem .264" bullets with acetone, dried, and coated 4 times with Red Copper. I now have .268" diameter bullets to load hopefully tomorrow and fire this week. Will be interesting to see if this method works as well with jacketed as it does with cast.

[Balta]

One kilo, (about 2.2lbs) of powdered coating, will make about 2.5 litre liquid coating.
Rough calculations are that one litre of liquid coating, should coat about 30,000 to 35,000 projectiles.
So, working on 30,000 per litre, 2,2lbs of powdered system should coat about 66,000 coated twice.
For powdered system, roughly, 7 oz is close enough to 200gms or 1/5th of a kilo. So, 1/5th of 30,000 coated projectiles is about 6,000 projectiles, double coated.

Your calculation is right but...
One kilogram of powder (2.2 lbs) using recommended mix ratio of 20 grams por 100 mil of acceton will make 5 litre of coating mixture !!
1 to 1,5 mil of mix to coat 1 lb of bullets (that's 50 9 mm 135 grain bullets) will give us minimum of 33,000 bullets coated once por liter..

"So, working on 30,000 per litre, 2,2lbs of powdered system should coat about 66,000 coated twice."-YES,but that is 5 litres of coating not 2.5 l....
I make my math teacher a proud today..:)

[Gremlin460]

Yes but how to KNOW that is dry enough for baking?

Hint no such thing as "too Dry", but there IS not Dry enough, when in doubt, give it another hour.....

[HI-TEK]

Your calculation is right but...
One kilogram of powder (2.2 lbs) using recommended mix ratio of 20 grams por 100 mil of acceton will make 5 litre of coating mixture !!
1 to 1,5 mil of mix to coat 1 lb of bullets (that's 50 9 mm 135 grain bullets) will give us minimum of 33,000 bullets coated once por liter..

"So, working on 30,000 per litre, 2,2lbs of powdered system should coat about 66,000 coated twice."-YES,but that is 5 litres of coating not 2.5 l....
I make my math teacher a proud today..:)

You are correct of sorts.
What I wanted to say but not made it clear is, that the 2.2 lbs of powder may make about 2.5 litres of liquid concentrate coating, as it is now being supplied.
The concentrate is diluted and catalysed before use, and diluted catalysed mix is approximately double the volume of the concentrate.
(I was referring/comparing to the liquid coating concentrate, as we supply it, which coats about 30,000 to 35,000 projectiles.)
You are correct, that usage rate of 20gms per 100mls Acetone will make about 5 litres, but, that is a ready to coat diluted and already catalysed mixture, and not the concentrate.
I based my calculation on how much the concentrate should cover after it is diluted and catalysed.
Hopefully my maths is OK...

[Ausglock]

who cares how much it makes.
It works!
Just use it!

[Moonman]

Trevor, You HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, with that one, Just Use It, Great Stuff for sure!

[kryogen]

expecting mine as soon as possible now :P

What kind of tray do you use to dry/cook? Any square wire tray from the hardware store?

[Avenger442]

Trevor; Moonman
We care about how many it coats because we like to brag about how cheap it is to use and still works.��

[Moonman]

The STUFF coats THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS.
People in commercial casting businesses may be more
concerned with the total cost to get their margin info.

At home just regular casters, the cost PER PROJECTILE
is negligible, so as Trevor says, get to using it.

If you're using the older WAXY LUBES, they also have a cost,
money and time if you make your own.

The new DRY MIX HI-TEK and tumble coating is THE BOMB BABY!
Get on board or get left behind. LOL!

[kryogen]

great cant wait to test it. going to be making some nice brown copper boolits.

[Ausglock]

Just completed testing the powders that are going to the USA.
Red 122k
Red 122L
Candy Apple Red
Texas Tea
Red 245
Zombie Green
Red Copper.

All were mixed 20gms to 100mls of Acetone.
2 coats each baked at 200 Deg C for 12 minutes.
All pass the wipe and smash tests 100%.
You people will love this stuff.
Enjoy.

[kryogen]

Great stuff ausglock

Hey is anyone shooting those in ar15 223 no leading?

[PAT303]

Done my first batch today,I followed Trevors instructions on page 19,total success.The boolits were NOE 316299 and 316365 and they past the tests easily,I can't get over how stupidly easy this stuff is to use,only issue I had was not putting enough coating in,less is more so I simply did three coats which had them done,only other issue is I have to wait 2 weeks for the alloy to age harden before I can shoot them,anyone what to buy a lyman lube sizer!!!!!. Pat

[HI-TEK]

Done my first batch today,I followed Trevors instructions on page 19,total success.The boolits were NOE 316299 and 316365 and they past the tests easily,I can't get over how stupidly easy this stuff is to use,only issue I had was not putting enough coating in,less is more so I simply did three coats which had them done,only other issue is I have to wait 2 weeks for the alloy to age harden before I can shoot them,anyone what to buy a lyman lube sizer!!!!!. Pat


Glad that you have had success.
It would be great if you can post some pictures.

Some of these guys on this forum were quench hardening on last baked coat.
I cant remember details, but what i do recall, is that they dropped last baked (hot) projectiles, straight from oven, into ice cold water. May be the ones who had success with this "hardening" method could weigh in.

[leadman]

I have had success in water quenching from the last bake. It does work much better if the boolit is heat treated before coating and then do the shortest bake for your first, and if you do 3 coats, your second. Make sure the boolits pass the wipe and smash tests, then on the last coat go a bit longer without overbaking and when done into the water. This retains most of the heat treated bhn gain.
I haven't measured a big difference in using water straight from the tap or ice cold, possible 1 or 2 bhn.

[gunoil]

candy apple red sounds good.

[HI-TEK]

candy apple red sounds good.

It sounds good, and really works well also.
Ausglock has tried it in an indoor range, and some who were there, also tried them, and wanted more.

[PAT303]

A few observations,I did some this morning and they failed,the coating flaked off the first batch,the next two batches passed,to me it seems the temp wasn't high enough so I need to pre warm the oven for longer.Secondly I used some NOE 6.5 boolits in the jar to mix the coating,the boolits were sized to suit my rifle and one went through the process with the 303's and passed the test,this boolit was sized from .265 down to .258 on the nose section yet easily passed even though I smashed it a fair bit so the coating will stay put on sized boolits.The boolits when coated are very slippery and with Texas Tea quite glossy in appearance. Pat

[2wheelDuke]

This may be a horrible idea, but has anyone tried hi-tek coating brass? I was just thinking about rounds like the 9x18 where I trim 9x19 brass down. It's awful tough to pick mine up if there's any other brass around. Coloring them would sure make them hard to confuse with regular brass.

[Ausglock]

New HI-TEK DRYTEK colours.
These will be available in the US shortly.

Candy Apple Red
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141102_142822.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20141102_142822.jpg.html)

Red Copper
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141102_191059.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20141102_191059.jpg.html)

Red 122L on the left and Red 122K on the right
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141104_184121.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20141104_184121.jpg.html)

[PAT303]

I have Texas Tea but it ends up looking just like red copper,am I baking it too hot or for too long or something?. Pat

[Balta]

New HI-TEK DRYTEK colours.
These will be available in the US shortly.

Candy Apple Red
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141102_142822.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20141102_142822.jpg.html)

Red Copper
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141102_191059.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20141102_191059.jpg.html)

Red 122L on the left and Red 122K on the right
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z222/glock40sw/20141104_184121.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/glock40sw/media/20141104_184121.jpg.html)

Your Red Copper looks much like Brown Copper
121273

[Ausglock]

Yeah. The photo makes it look darker than it really is.
I didn't post the photo of the Texas Tea as it looks totally black.

[kryogen]

I just cant wait to try to coat my first brown coppers
how much does 2 coats add to the diameter of the boolit?

[atygrit]

Finally success...at least what I'm going to call success. I received my replacement bullets and they worked MUCH better than the first ones I received. I have just a little bit of the coating coming off towards the end of the barrel on both my 9mm and 45 acp.

Any ideas on what would cause fouling at the muzzle end of the barrel?

Any suggestions on a different powder? I'm current using 4.3 grains of HP38 for my 9mm and it's like I'm in a western with GIANT puff of smoke. Looking for suggesting that don't smoke as much and meter well in a Dillon powder measure.

Thanks,

[Ausglock]

HP38 is Win 231. it is a smokie powder. I use 4.2gn in 9mm with a 125gn pill.

reload using the bullets and then pull one with a kenetics puller hammer. look for torn coating from the loading/crimping operation.
2 coats of red copper adds about 0.0005" to the dia of the bullet or 3/5ths of bugger all.

[Redwoode]

What handgun do you do most of your competition shooting with?

[Ausglock]

1911 Kimber Stainless Target II in 38 Super. IPSC Classic Division

[drfroglegs]

I've read through a bunch of these pages and can't really find the answer to my question, hopefully someone can help me out!

What is the difference between the traditional Hi-Tek "super coat" coating sold by Boyou Bullets (http://www.bayoubullets.net/hi-tek-heat-set-super-coat-bullet-coating-order-by-phone/) and the Hi-Tek supercoat powder sold by gateway (http://gatewaybullets.com/shop/bullet-coating/25-hi-tek-supercoat-powder.html#/coating_size-3_5_oz_/coating_color-brown_copper).

What are the benefits of choosing one over the other? Is the end result the same?

Thanks guys, I've been casting for a few years now and am about to pull the trigger on this new coating. Any help is much appreciated!

[Ausglock]

The supercoat is a 3 part wet process. colour, catalyst and acetone. the liquid colour is a dangerous goods product.
The powder is a 2 part dry/wet process. the powder contains the colour and the catalyst in dry form. You just add acetone.
The end result is the same.
There is a huge shipment of the powder due shortly at Bayou Bullets

[ioon44]

Hello
I have been learning to use the Hi-Tek "super coat" coating sold by Boyou Bullets.
My question is
Can I apply a 5-1-7 coat first and the next day apply a 5-1-5 coat to get a finished boolit in two coats not 3.
The 3 coated boolits really look nice and no leading or smoke out of a Glock .40.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Hello
I have been learning to use the Hi-Tek "super coat" coating sold by Boyou Bullets.
My question is
Can I apply a 5-1-7 coat first and the next day apply a 5-1-5 coat to get a finished boolit in two coats not 3.
The 3 coated boolits really look nice and no leading or smoke out of a Glock .40.

You can certainly try that combination of coating mixtures and in all likelyhood it will work just fine.
Also there is no need to wait another day, unless of course you want to.
Donnie
Bayou Bullets

[Ausglock]

2 coats at 5-1-7 is all I use for all my handgun calibres.
You don't need 3 coats or a 5-1-5 final coat.

[Love Life]

Dry-TEK porn:

[fivewhy]

2 coats at 5-1-7 is all I use for all my handgun calibres.
You don't need 3 coats or a 5-1-5 final coat.
but wouldn't I want 3 or maybe 4 coats for rifle calibers? Meaning, anything flying 2200fps to 3000fps...to avoid potential of gas cutting and/or other problems? Assuming they were sized after coatings.

Also, isn't 2800 to 3000fps around the top end that anyone has tried w this coating? But no one has reported any inability or failure at higher speeds, no?

Is there any rpm (product of speed and twist) that have caused this coating spin off the bullet after muzzle exit? ..as is the case w copper plating?

Thanks. I know you guys are handgun guys but this coating could cause a substantial cost reduction for rifle bullets. The jacket may be best at around 3000fps, but when I can get coated bullets for one third to one fourth the cost of a jacketed bullet I would definitely buy coated bullets.

[ioon44]

You can certainly try that combination of coating mixtures and in all likelyhood it will work just fine.
Also there is no need to wait another day, unless of course you want to.
Donnie
Bayou Bullets

I had trouble with the boolits not passing the smash test and trying to make sure the first is dry before baking.

[HI-TEK]

but wouldn't I want 3 or maybe 4 coats for rifle calibers? Meaning, anything flying 2200fps to 3000fps...to avoid potential of gas cutting and/or other problems? Assuming they were sized after coatings.

Also, isn't 2800 to 3000fps around the top end that anyone has tried w this coating? But no one has reported any inability or failure at higher speeds, no?

Is there any rpm (product of speed and twist) that have caused this coating spin off the bullet after muzzle exit? ..as is the case w copper plating?

Thanks. I know you guys are handgun guys but this coating could cause a substantial cost reduction for rifle bullets. The jacket may be best at around 3000fps, but when I can get coated bullets for one third to one fourth the cost of a jacketed bullet I would definitely buy coated bullets.

This information was published a couple of pages back.
I don't know if it is useful or not.
Tests were done on commercially coated projectiles using Candy Apple Red coating.

No gas check
winchester 760 powder 43gn
2250 FPS
tests were carried out at, 100, 200 and 300 Meters
results matched performance of Jacketed projectiles
Client who tested the projectiles has ordered our 180gn Spire point in Candy Apple Red


Rifle Ruger MKII 308
180gn spire point projectile as per photo
sized to 309
35 BHN
J&M coated 2x coats Candy Apple Red
No gas check
winchester 760 powder 46gn
2450 FPS
tests were carried out at, 100, 200 and 300 Meters
results matched performance of Jacketed projectiles
Client who tested the projectiles has ordered our 180gn Spire point in Candy Apple Red

[PAT303]

I've had a couple of failures,my oven was way over temp,set at 200 it hit 270 so I burnt the coating,if cooked at 200 for 12mins I get flaking,cooked for 8mins it's perfect,12mins gets flakes with one hammer hit,8mins they can be smashed down to the thickness of a 20c piece and the coating refuses to come off,at 12mins the coating is chocolate color yet at 8 it's a golden green color,I've found that not letting them sit for an hour the coating won't bond to the alloy and the second coat will strip the first,it's taken a couple of failures to get the technique but once you have it it's very easy to use,I'll be shooting them this weekend. Pat

[fivewhy]

35 BHN
J&M coated 2x coats Candy Apple Red
No gas check
winchester 760 powder 46gn
2450 FPSThat's a pretty high BHN, probably pretty brittle..which really may not even be a problem. But if 18 BHN could work, bullets could be very cheap. 34 BHN would just be marginally more expensive...not much for a large producer. I should have specified 18 BHN. But maybe that's an open question, and producers don't really know yet. I hope that 18BHN is good for 1600-2200fps pressures. 22BHN is good for 2200-2600fps pressures. 24BHN is good for 2600-2800fps pressures. And >24 is good for >2800fps. ...that is, with this coating. I think this coating would allow for softer bullets, in general. But those numbers are a gross generalization, and probably only applies for the 30 cal bullets (which is in the common'ish/middle'ish part of the caliber range). It may vary as either diameter or sectional density changes. These are just my two cents.

Altho, of course it is great to know that even at 34 BHN the coating performance is as good as jackets, at 2450 fps, and with only 2 coats. I think that is probably all that needs to be said. I will have to order some 22 and 30 cal of these from one of the retailers that sells coated bullets...just wish there was more options available. These would probably be ideal for very heavy-for-caliber bullets too. But I really think 4 coats should be industry standard for rifle bullets, just for a little risk coverage and headroom (like how chambers are built to withstand pressures 30% or so higher than its rating). Proper sizing too, of course.


it's taken a couple of failures to get the technique but once you have it it's very easy to use,I'll be shooting them this weekend. Patthat is awesome to hear, should mean a fourth coat won't be bothersome or costly over 2 and 3 coats, lol

[kryogen]

are 2 coatings enough for 45 acp?

[HI-TEK]

I've had a couple of failures,my oven was way over temp,set at 200 it hit 270 so I burnt the coating,if cooked at 200 for 12mins I get flaking,cooked for 8mins it's perfect,12mins gets flakes with one hammer hit,8mins they can be smashed down to the thickness of a 20c piece and the coating refuses to come off,at 12mins the coating is chocolate color yet at 8 it's a golden green color,I've found that not letting them sit for an hour the coating won't bond to the alloy and the second coat will strip the first,it's taken a couple of failures to get the technique but once you have it it's very easy to use,I'll be shooting them this weekend. Pat

My guess is that your temperatures in the oven are higher if product fails at 200C at 12 minutes.
Flaking is normally associated with inadequate drying or using too much to first coat or both.
You need a good reliable thermometer to accurately determine oven temperature.
Knob setting on oven is not always reliable.
Please check things out.

[HI-TEK]

That's a pretty high BHN, probably pretty brittle..which really may not even be a problem. But if 18 BHN could work, bullets could be very cheap. 34 BHN would just be marginally more expensive...not much for a large producer. I should have specified 18 BHN. But maybe that's an open question, and producers don't really know yet. I hope that 18BHN is good for 1600-2200fps pressures. 22BHN is good for 2200-2600fps pressures. 24BHN is good for 2600-2800fps pressures. And >24 is good for >2800fps. ...that is, with this coating. I think this coating would allow for softer bullets, in general. But those numbers are a gross generalization, and probably only applies for the 30 cal bullets (which is in the common'ish/middle'ish part of the caliber range). It may vary as either diameter or sectional density changes. These are just my two cents.

Altho, of course it is great to know that even at 34 BHN the coating performance is as good as jackets, at 2450 fps, and with only 2 coats. I think that is probably all that needs to be said. I will have to order some 22 and 30 cal of these from one of the retailers that sells coated bullets...just wish there was more options available. These would probably be ideal for very heavy-for-caliber bullets too. But I really think 4 coats should be industry standard for rifle bullets, just for a little risk coverage and headroom (like how chambers are built to withstand pressures 30% or so higher than its rating). Proper sizing too, of course.

that is awesome to hear, should mean a fourth coat won't be bothersome or costly over 2 and 3 coats, lol


This below results were posted by Leadman. (I hope he does not object to my repeating his post)
Quote from Leadman, " I used heat treated linotype for the Lee 22 cal. "Bator" boolits that I pushed to 3,619fps average. Air cooled linotype is good in some guns to 3,000 fps, others may not get to 2,500 fps.



[COLOR=#333333]Velocities of 2,500 fps to around 2,800, 3,000 fps are done fairly easily. Use weight sorted boolits with good gas checks installed properly. I have used aluminum gas checks and they worked good other than the time I tried to install them on 32 BHN linotype boolits. The GC extruded up the side of the boolit. I think the boolit was harder than the aluminum. If you use aluminum gcs install them first if you are going to heat treat the boolit."

[PAT303]

My guess is that your temperatures in the oven are higher if product fails at 200C at 12 minutes.
Flaking is normally associated with inadequate drying or using too much to first coat or both.
You need a good reliable thermometer to accurately determine oven temperature.
Knob setting on oven is not always reliable.
Please check things out.
I've got a thermometer in the oven,with the oven knob set at 150 the thermo is reading 210-220,they pass the tests so I'm happy. Pat

[HI-TEK]

I've got a thermometer in the oven,with the oven knob set at 150 the thermo is reading 210-220,they pass the tests so I'm happy. Pat

Great news.
Just goes to show, how much oven knobs can be out and misleading causing many problems.

[Ausglock]

are 2 coatings enough for 45 acp?

Yes. 2 coats at 5-1-7 with Candy Apple red or Kryptonite green. No worries

[Balta]

Finally success...at least what I'm going to call success. I received my replacement bullets and they worked MUCH better than the first ones I received. I have just a little bit of the coating coming off towards the end of the barrel on both my 9mm and 45 acp.

Any ideas on what would cause fouling at the muzzle end of the barrel?

Any suggestions on a different powder? I'm current using 4.3 grains of HP38 for my 9mm and it's like I'm in a western with GIANT puff of smoke. Looking for suggesting that don't smoke as much and meter well in a Dillon powder measure.

Thanks,

Is your "puff" look like main :)
121606

[drfroglegs]

The supercoat is a 3 part wet process. colour, catalyst and acetone. the liquid colour is a dangerous goods product.
The powder is a 2 part dry/wet process. the powder contains the colour and the catalyst in dry form. You just add acetone.
The end result is the same.
There is a huge shipment of the powder due shortly at Bayou Bullets

Great. The stuff Bayou is getting is the same as what Gateway has?

Has anyone compared this stuff to a traditional powder coating? Ive seen reports of doing a similar "dry coating" by just dissolving the dry powder in acetone/laquer thinner and baking that. What is the advantage of this material over that? Is this one a harder polymer where as the other is a softer plastic?

Thanks for informing the noob. I will be ordering this stuff when I figure out what I want! I bought a toaster oven off craigslist for $20 that retails for $120 because it "looks dirty." Sucker... Got everything ready, just waiting on ordering the powder.

Thanks for any input.

[Love Life]

The difference between this and Powder Coating are that this (Dry-Tek and the liquid) are made for the application and Powder Coat is made for lawn chairs...and car parts...and other stuff and just adapted to this application.

Just mix, tumble, and bake with Dry-TEK and the liquid system. No having to rub your feet on the carpet, remove bullets with forceps, using a spray gun, non-stick foil, etc like you do with PC.

Below is a list of commercial casters who use traditional powder coat:

[Ausglock]

Is your "puff" look like main :)
121606
No. are you using Black Powder...:bigsmyl2:.

I use ADI (Aussie powder sold in the USA as Hodgdon) it is clean and very little smoke. Even my SV Racegun has very little smoke and it runs a 4 port comp.
Bullets recovered from the berm show rifling makes only. the coating is perfect.
You problem might be the Double Alpha shirt...:bigsmyl2:

[nevadabob]

Gateway is great! Received my order and all is well.

[Gateway Bullets]

Nevadabob,

all otders have have finally shipped! I profusely appolgize for any slow shipping. Things have been extremely rough in the past few months in the shop. Over half of my employees are connected to the Ferguson **** and have been absent from the shop! So it's been VERY difficult to say the least. Most have been either on 12 hour shifts without days off or have been staying home to protect their families for the possibility of retaliatory violence.,

I now have made new arrangements and products are now flowing at full speed!

AGAIN, I AM TRULEY SORRY FOR MY SLOW SHIPPING AND ABSENCE ON THIS THREAD!

[jayjay1]

Yo folks, Germany calling again.
[smilie=s:

Would someone please be so nice, and tell me which coatings (inspite of the red candy apple) are good to load, when being done only twice?

Thanks!

[jayjay1]

Is your "puff" look like main :)
121606

I have to use WST right now, because I don´t get another powder.
My shots look the same.

But I know it is the powder, not the coating, because I haven´t had this smoke with Lovex D032 and VV N320.

[nevadabob]

Gateway...Thank you for the reply. I just sent you another email before I looked at this thread. Please disregard it. Your answer is satisfactory and I'm looking forward to receiving my order and doing business with you again.

[HI-TEK]

Yo folks, Germany calling again.
[smilie=s:

Would someone please be so nice, and tell me which coatings (inspite of the red candy apple) are good to load, when being done only twice?

Thanks!

Hello all in Germany, hope all is well with every one.
With your question, it is not clear what you wish to do.
Can you please explain a little more of what you wish to do?

All the coatings should work in majority of applications with two coats done well.
The "Metallics", seem to take slightly higher loads, and reflect heat much better than plain non metallic coloured coatings.

[jayjay1]

Hey Joe, you got it right.

The Red Candy Apple seems to me easier to apply, good with being coated twice.
With the Brown Copper I did three coatings to get a good result, but maybe I have done something wrong.

I think I mean the metallic coats.
Which are those?

[HI-TEK]

Hey Joe, you got it right.

The Red Candy Apple seems to me easier to apply, good with being coated twice.
With the Brown Copper I did three coatings to get a good result, but maybe I have done something wrong.

I think I mean the metallic coats.
Which are those?

Hello jayjay1,
The "metallics" are in all coatings with "particles" in solvent suspension.
These are all Gold, all copper, all bronze, Texas tea, Candy Apple, Zombie Green.
Some are more easy with use and with coverage, but it all comes with experience will determine how good coating is applied.
Please remember, that final finish, is mainly to make product look pretty, but pretty is only for looks, and is not for performance.
I have always advised, that the coating should work even if it does not look perfect and pretty, as long as it is stuck to the alloy and baked correctly.
The coating is for metal separation/lubrication between alloy and barrel.
Colour, is user preference, but as advised some colours seem to perform better, especially with the Metallics as they exhibit better properties in some areas..
General rule is, if it works dont change a thing, just enjoy.

[PAT303]

A question on molds,I'm going to buy a 357 mold,with HT I'm probably better to buy a tumble lube mold instead of lube grooved?,Joe,if I heat treat my boolits,thinking outside the square,can I oven heat treat as hot as possible,let cool and then HT coat them but instead of 200 degree's for 10 mins,can I cook them at 100 so I don't soften them but at longer cooking time like 20-25mins,will the coating still work?. Pat

[leadman]

For those individuals trying to obtain a set velocity window with a certain BHN it would pay them to buy Richard Lee's Second Edition Manual and read the section on pressure versus velocity. I have found it to be a good guide to make sure you are using the proper bhn boolit for the velocity wanted. The Hi-Tek coating does allow the velocity to be increased in most cases without overpressuring the alloy.
With the ability to obtain additional hardness by water quenching with the powdered coating especially there is no reason not to do so as it is very little additional labor and only cost is for the water.
I have found for high velocity paper punching or clod busting harder is better.

[Moonman]

PAT303,

You need the 200 C for the set time to allow the temperature
sensitive CATALYST to GO OFF.

You probably don't need to OVER THINK the alloy
hardness either with the heat treating act.

[HI-TEK]

A question on molds,I'm going to buy a 357 mold,with HT I'm probably better to buy a tumble lube mold instead of lube grooved?,Joe,if I heat treat my boolits,thinking outside the square,can I oven heat treat as hot as possible,let cool and then HT coat them but instead of 200 degree's for 10 mins,can I cook them at 100 so I don't soften them but at longer cooking time like 20-25mins,will the coating still work?. Pat


Hi Pat,
The coating will not set correctly until it is exposed to about a minimum of 180C, and, at 180C it can take about 20 minutes or more to fully cure, and time of cure, will depend on air circulation rates.
It just wont work correctly at low temperatures.

The reason people cure at 200C to 210C is that it speeds up production rates.
Unfortunately or fortunately, these physical parameters are required for coating to work.

[2wheelDuke]

I just had some interesting observations. My first experiments with Hi-Tek were on the 358-100 Ranch Dog boolit. I got it for .380, but have also pressed it into service for .38spl and 9mm luger.

I just got a new Gen 4 Glock 19, and figured those would do until I have some 125gr Mihec cast up. I'm thinking I shouldn't have to bother with an aftermarket conventionally rifled barrel now that I'm into Hi-Tek coating alot of my boolits. I pressed up about 150 of them and brought the gf to the range for some instruction.

I put 4.5gr of Bullseye behind them. They shot pretty well, and seemed accurate. I might've had the crimp a bit on the heavy side. The coating was also a bit thick, but did pass the smash and wipe tests. I sized them .358 between coats.

I noticed a bit of leading at the muzzle end of the barrel.

I'm about to cast some more up to coat this week and see if I can revisit things. I've also got a dummy to pull to see if I cut a ring in the coating with my crimp.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

[PAT303]

Hi Pat,
The coating will not set correctly until it is exposed to about a minimum of 180C, and, at 180C it can take about 20 minutes or more to fully cure, and time of cure, will depend on air circulation rates.
It just wont work correctly at low temperatures.

The reason people cure at 200C to 210C is that it speeds up production rates.
Unfortunately or fortunately, these physical parameters are required for coating to work.
Bugger,thanks Joe,I might cast some up today and water quench after the second coat and see how it goes. Pat

[atygrit]

Is your "puff" look like main :)
121606

Yes, only the wind was blowing in right back at me. :-)

[2wheelDuke]

Update:

I pulled one that had a mangled primer from my press. As I suspected, there was a bit too much crimp, which cut a nice silver line around the bullet

[jayjay1]

Hello jayjay1,
These are all Gold, all copper, all bronze, Texas tea, Candy Apple, Zombie Green.


Ok, thank you a lot!

What colour is Texas Tea (like Oil = black?).

And if you are writing "all copper, all bronze", how do they look like?

Want to order some pewter.
Would love to see those colours.

Or is it possible to watch them anywhere?
:smile:

[HI-TEK]

Ok, thank you a lot!

What colour is Texas Tea (like Oil = black?). (This is Black with Golden sparkling particles.)

And if you are writing "all copper, all bronze", how do they look like? (these can be sent via email to you, so please advise with a PM with details)

Want to order some pewter. (This would be closer to our Glitter Bronze colour)
Would love to see those colours.

Or is it possible to watch them anywhere? (Most coloured coated alloys I have photos and can send to you by email separately)
Some colours were posted on this site by Ausglock as well a few pages back.
:smile:

Please contact me by email so I can reply with more photos.

[Ausglock]

Update:

I pulled one that had a mangled primer from my press. As I suspected, there was a bit too much crimp, which cut a nice silver line around the bullet

Remember.... The 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. Use plenty of belling and only use the crimper to remove the belling after seating.
Most Aussie 9mm reloaders have this problem when they first start reloading with coated pills.

[jayjay1]

Remember.... The 9mm headspaces on the case mouth. Use plenty of belling and only use the crimper to remove the belling after seating.
Most Aussie 9mm reloaders have this problem when they first start reloading with coated pills.

Had the same problem, because the Dillon pewter expander was to small.

So I asked Dillon to get a bigger one, the answer was: There´s no need for!
:x

In the end, I´ve got some custom expanders from a friend who is doing in metalls.

[gunoil]

I like mrbulletfeeder.biz expanders with the step. Best bullet feeder.

You can also go to the NOE bullet mold website, AL is now offering expanders with triple steps. l ordered one.

I took 38sp expander plug and put it on laith.

[jayjay1]

You can also go to the NOE bullet mold website, AL is now offering expanders with triple steps. l ordered one.

Are those for the powder fillers, fitting in Dillons or what?
That would be a great thing!

Well, yeah, you can buy expanders from Dillon for bigger calibers and let them mill down, not much work from there to be done, because the upper part is all the same.
But you have to take care, that the length of the expander comes close to the serial one.

The .38/357 expander is way shorter than the 9mm one.
Dunno if it will fit.

But I think, that the .40 should work?

[Ausglock]

What is the problem with your dillon 9mm expander?
Mine is factory original 9mm expander and it works fine with all my coated bullets.
Sized .355, .356, .3575 and .358. All these work fine.
Just set the powder die and extra 1/2 turn down in the tool head on the press.

[PAT303]

Shot my first boolits today,they shoot as good as anything else with no fouling,my rifles came home cleaner than they were before I left,never had the bores so clean. Pat

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

What kind of premiums (TAXES) do your DILLON presses incur in OZ over USA prices?
Just Wondering.

[Ausglock]

A square deal here is about $500 AUD
550B is around the $650 AUD
The dillon no BS warrantee still applies, but you have to pay shipping to the AUS distributor and then from them to me.
I have had Dillon send parts direct from the USA. My 550 is not the B model. so I upgraded to the B and dillon sent parts at no charge.

Pat303...Good job. Well done!!!:drinks::drinks:

[PAT303]

I'll start getting involved more but usually let my boolits sit for 2 weeks before firing them so need to wait,I've got to find a reliable way to heat treat treat them as the boolits are 50/50 WW and range scrap and drop at 10 BHN,I want a good 2000fps load in the 303 and 6.5x55 so I've got plenty to do,love the way nothing is sticky,no gummed up dies or case necks,I'm sure the coating has cleaned the wax lubes out of the bores as well. Pat

[popper]

Pat303 - size, set in a convection oven @ ~400F for at least 1 hr, dump immediately into COLD (40-50F) tap water. A tad of As in the melt helps, you WW may already have some. Mine go to 2400+ in a 16" carbine, PCd. I just HiTek (the old dark green which isn't rated for HV) 40 & 9 but the process works there also. Coating looked a bit overcooked but they shoot fine.

[kryogen]

yeah but you aussies are all rich :P

[Ausglock]

yeah but you aussies are all rich :P
Hahahahaha... tell that to my accountant...

[HI-TEK]

Pat303 - size, set in a convection oven @ ~400F for at least 1 hr, dump immediately into COLD (40-50F) tap water. A tad of As in the melt helps, you WW may already have some. Mine go to 2400+ in a 16" carbine, PCd. I just HiTek (the old dark green which isn't rated for HV) 40 & 9 but the process works there also. Coating looked a bit overcooked but they shoot fine.

Interesting results.
The below results were done by Leadman, and it is also very impressive results.

(I hope he does not object to my repeating his post)
Quote from Leadman, " I used heat treated linotype for the Lee 22 cal. "Bator" boolits that I pushed to 3,619fps average. Air cooled linotype is good in some guns to 3,000 fps, others may not get to 2,500 fps.



[COLOR=#333333]Velocities of 2,500 fps to around 2,800, 3,000 fps are done fairly easily. Use weight sorted boolits with good gas checks installed properly. I have used aluminum gas checks and they worked good other than the time I tried to install them on 32 BHN linotype boolits. The GC extruded up the side of the boolit. I think the boolit was harder than the aluminum. If you use aluminum gcs install them first if you are going to heat treat the boolit."

[leadman]

No problem quoting me Hi-Tek.
To go along with the heat treated boolits when I coat and then bake I watch the temperature in the oven rise to about 390 degrees then turn off the heat but leave them in the oven for the rest of the 10 minutes. Then wipe and smash test, recoat if they pass, bake the 2nd coat the same way. If the second coat passes do a third coat but let them bake to a point just before they start to turn dark and then dump in cold water right from the oven.
This will harden cast boolits that are air cooled from the mold and also help heat treated boolits maintain most of their heat treated hardness. Depending on alloy the hardness will vary.

[btroj]

I can assure you Hi-tek does just fine in cold weather. Used it in the load I got my deer with and it was fine. Marlin CB in 45 Colt with a 295 cast, copper red, and 10.5 gr of surplus #105.

Temp was around 10 degrees. No leading after 4 shots. Yeah, 4, the first wasn't the best and I keep shooting tell they are done.

[nevadabob]

Thank you Gateway! Everything arrived in good order.

[jayjay1]

Gentlemen,
my first selfmade rifle bullets want go flying!

http://abload.de/thumb/img_0113tpiy4.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=img_0113tpiy4.jpg)


[smilie=w:

[Avenger442]

Gentlemen,
my first selfmade rifle bullets want go flying!

http://abload.de/thumb/img_0113tpiy4.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=img_0113tpiy4.jpg)


[smilie=w:
Looking good JayJay!

[Whizzer]

What is the caliber of those beautiful rounds? I recognize the mold, but not the chambering.

[jayjay1]

Thank you Avenger and Whizzer.

Those are .30-06 Springfield, loaded for an US modell of 1917.

Slug came out .3095, so I took a .312 mold, which is normally used for the .303" British and sized it down to .311".
Chris (lathesmith inhere) made me a fine custom die for that.

I have measured out my chamber and gave some VV N110 (18gr. for the beginning) behind the bullets.
I´m very excited to look how they shoot.

[Avenger442]

JayJay
Report back, I'm considering loading some for my 30-06.
thanks

[jayjay1]

Report with my starting load.

It was dark, so I had to hurry and sight wasn´t at it´s best, but I could hit the disc from the first shot.

This was 100m on an ISSF disc, ten shots with 18gr. VV N110, OAL as measured and set back 0,3mm, that´s about 0,012", primers were Federal´s.
http://abload.de/thumb/p17lee185-312z7ut4.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=p17lee185-312z7ut4.jpg)

First shot was deep (7), so I raised the sight from 700 to 800yds.
Shoots a little bit left, as you can see.

I think I will minimize OAL a little more next time and play a little bit around with the powder charge.
But that´s not to bad for a first attempt over open sights, I suppose.

Also I have to say, that I´m an experienced pistol shooter, with rifles, hmmmm, I would say I can pull the trigger and it goes Bumm.
:oops:

[leadman]

IIRC V110 is a little slower than 296/110. With powders of this speed I usually find 18 or 19 grs work well. You are off to a great start considering the conditions you were shooting in.

[gunoil]

leadman, you reccomend a load for colt45? 200gr lymans. federal primers. No powder yet.

[jayjay1]

Well, ok, again some loads with my USM 1917 in .30-06 Spr..

First one was with LEE 309-180, dropping out with .3105 getting above .3115 with double coating, sized back to .310X.

Amazing group with open sights, I think the best I´ve ever shot with this rilfle.
6 shots in the 10, those outside the 10 come from my bad skills as a rifle shooter.

http://abload.de/thumb/p1722.111ebfgm.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=p1722.111ebfgm.jpg)

The second and third one, were shot with LEE 312-185, which I thought would be the way to go, because my rifle slugged with barely .310.
But the mold drops with .313, and coated, it´s a total overkill, hard to size it down under .311.....
[smilie=1:

But well, I´m still learning, so.

http://abload.de/thumb/p1722.11235c64.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=p1722.11235c64.jpg)

http://abload.de/thumb/p1722.1133vis4.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=p1722.1133vis4.jpg)

I was using gas checks, to be on the safe side, having no experience with rifle boolits at all.

No leading, no crumbs, nothing at all in the barrel.
It´s more the opposite, it seemed to me that my barrel was cleaner and shining even more than before shooting.

Man I love this stuff.
:bigsmyl2:

[Ausglock]

Dear Cristian, the Italian.

I am at a loss at to why you are having problems coating bullets with HI-TEK coating.

Joe sent me you email and all I can offer is to say this:

FFS... READ the instructions!! Stop thinking like an engineer and just follow the instructions!!!
It is not hard to do!

Also... use a good quality firearm ( Glock, Kimber, STI etc) Not a *** Tanwoglio!

If you want me to come over and show you how to do it, I'll send you my frequent flyer details and you can organise the flights.

Going rate is $250 AUD per hour Plus costs. including travel time.

[Gremlin460]

Redwoode, here is the quick little video on how I coat I promised you weeks ago..

http://youtu.be/3saWDLobPAo

I lost 2 mins of footage where I added the catalyst and shook the bottle, but you will get the idea.
The video is only to show how *I* do it, others methology may vary..

[PAT303]

Dear Cristian, the Italian.

I am at a loss at to why you are having problems coating bullets with HI-TEK coating.

Joe sent me you email and all I can offer is to say this:

FFS... READ the instructions!! Stop thinking like an engineer and just follow the instructions!!!
It is not hard to do!

Also... use a good quality firearm ( Glock, Kimber, STI etc) Not a *** Tanwoglio!

If you want me to come over and show you how to do it, I'll send you my frequent flyer details and you can organise the flights.

Going rate is $250 AUD per hour Plus costs. including travel time.
Absolutely,I don't no why people insist on making easy things hard,cast boolit,cool,coat,let dry,bake,cool,repeat.It's that easy. Pat

[Shotgundrums]

It is incredibly easy!! The hardest part I ran into was in the beginning. What was giving me poor results was my oven temp being way off. Now that I know where it is, and I check it every use it all falls together.
An issue I'm having now is coating coming off of bullets I've casted months ago. My bullets pass all tests after baking them and for weeks on end. I follow Joe and Trev's instructions to the letter. I don't think my bullets have zinc or cadmium...that I know of. How's one to know? Only thing I can do is clean out my melter, and cast from 92-6-2 I bought many moons ago from Rotometals when they were roughly $1.50 per lb.....

[Ausglock]

Only thing I can do is clean out my melter, and cast from 92-6-2 I bought many moons ago from Rotometals when they were roughly $1.50 per lb.....

Yes. I'd try that.

[leadman]

gunoil, I haven't load for the 45 Colt in almost 20 years and then it was 300gr boolits at max velocity. I do know that with the size of the case if lower velocities are wanted the powder selected should be something like Unique and faster with the lighter boolits.
There are plenty of folks here that shoot the 45 Colt so search some of the sections. Also check Hodgdon's websites for Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester powder data.

[PAT303]

It is incredibly easy!! The hardest part I ran into was in the beginning. What was giving me poor results was my oven temp being way off. Now that I know where it is, and I check it every use it all falls together.
An issue I'm having now is coating coming off of bullets I've casted months ago. My bullets pass all tests after baking them and for weeks on end. I follow Joe and Trev's instructions to the letter. I don't think my bullets have zinc or cadmium...that I know of. How's one to know? Only thing I can do is clean out my melter, and cast from 92-6-2 I bought many moons ago from Rotometals when they were roughly $1.50 per lb.....
That was my problem first up,oven temp way off,I've had the coat coming off problem,I let the first coat dry so it's not in the least bit sticky,I cast and cool then coat and leave till the next day to bake,zero problems.I cast some 316299 NOE boolits last week and dropped them straight from the oven into a bucket of water after the second coat and they hardened to 14BHN and pass the smash test easily,the alloy was straight WW's. Pat

[Balta]

Dear Cristian, the Italian.

I am at a loss at to why you are having problems coating bullets with HI-TEK coating.

Joe sent me you email and all I can offer is to say this:

FFS... READ the instructions!! Stop thinking like an engineer and just follow the instructions!!!
It is not hard to do!

Also... use a good quality firearm ( Glock, Kimber, STI etc) Not a *** Tanwoglio!

If you want me to come over and show you how to do it, I'll send you my frequent flyer details and you can organise the flights.

Going rate is $250 AUD per hour Plus costs. including travel time.

Genorus offer that very few people can refuse:)

[Ausglock]

Genorus offer that very few people can refuse:)

:bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2: [smilie=s:

[220]

An issue I'm having now is coating coming off of bullets I've casted months ago.

I had the same problem, passed all the tests at coating and after about 3 months they would start to fail the smash test with flaking.
Only thing Joe could suggest was contamination of some sort precipitating out of the lead braking the coating bond.
This was with a range lead and WW alloy. I cast some out of some 96 6 2 and they are still good after 4 months.
Still have no idea what the contamination was, purchased 150kg from a smelter and use the range & WW for conventional lube and LLA boolits.

[HI-TEK]

I had the same problem, passed all the tests at coating and after about 3 months they would start to fail the smash test with flaking.
Only thing Joe could suggest was contamination of some sort precipitating out of the lead braking the coating bond.
This was with a range lead and WW alloy. I cast some out of some 96 6 2 and they are still good after 4 months.
Still have no idea what the contamination was, purchased 150kg from a smelter and use the range & WW for conventional lube and LLA boolits.

Hi 220,
A local manufacturer purchased 92-6-2 alloy, about 5 tonnes. He had similar failures and nearly went mad trying to work out what was wrong. He was using same batch of coating on new delivery of alloy, and after new delivery was used, with time, we started to notice problems.
We found after exhaustive tests, that reactive metals, such as Zinc, Cadmium, Aluminium were present in alloy in small amounts.
I dont know how, but that is what was found.
What that did was produce a white crystalline powdery salt/oxidation product, started to form on non coated cast alloys.
We also determined, that after coating was done, this "corrosion" process continued separating coating and alloy, so after a period the smash test failed.
The 5 tonnes of alloy was re-furnaced and treated to remove base metals, then all went well, and after treatments, no more smash failures occurred with alloy.
Sooooo, even so called certified alloys can become problematic, but is uncommon occurrence.
It was a real learning curve that nearly drove us insane trying to find out what was going on.

[Shotgundrums]

I'm wondering if the wiser would be to cast and then coat immediately. Sounds like some kind of electrolytic process is happening. The costs of lead alloy are getting out of hand which is why many, including myself, rely on lead where ever we can find it and for cheap. I've read that cadmium is from poorly refined lead from lead-acid batteries...I have some rcbs 9mm bullets sized that still pass tests. I'm wondering if the Hornady Oneshot case lube is penetrating the coating. All my sized bullets without using case lube haven't failed... More experimentation underway.....

[HI-TEK]

I'm wondering if the wiser would be to cast and then coat immediately. Sounds like some kind of electrolytic process is happening. The costs of lead alloy are getting out of hand which is why many, including myself, rely on lead where ever we can find it and for cheap. I've read that cadmium is from poorly refined lead from lead-acid batteries...I have some rcbs 9mm bullets sized that still pass tests. I'm wondering if the Hornady Oneshot case lube is penetrating the coating. All my sized bullets without using case lube haven't failed... More experimentation underway.....


I agree with you about Lead recycling.
I dont know for sure, but many Lead recyclers are supposed to "treat" furnace recycled Lead to remove contaminations.
A lot of Lead Acid Batteries are recycled to re-use Lead.
It is a very costly business, and I can t say for certainty, but some may not carry out adequate treatment.
You should not use any Lube that may interfere with good bonding.
Many lubes although excellent products in themselves, can and will contaminate all surfaces by contact transfer. After contamination has occurred, many are very difficult to remove and eliminate.
There are other dry non contaminating case lubes available that work very well.

[Shotgundrums]

So is it possible the case lube is penetrating the coating and interrupting the bond? Ive been using Hornady Oneshot case lube to size already coated bullets. I have a heap of micronized PTFE in the cave. Would isopropyl alcohol be a good vehicle for this?

[leadman]

I had a similar problem with the white oxide on a batch of my boolits and had difficulty filling the mold. I used Zep brand Root Killer as a flux to remove any zinc. Same procedure the guys are using to get copper hardened boolits. Flow improved greatly and no problem with the white oxide. I did add a little pewter to improve the mold fill out as the Root Killer is supposed to remove tin also.
I have had no problems with the coating since doing this.
I also pretty much stopped using any unknown lead as the bad batch was from mixing in some ingots I bought from a local guy that bought them at an estate sale. I do keep pool acid handy in case I want to test any lead.

[Avenger442]

I'm a little confused (my normal state) about the contamination in the lead breaking the bond between lead and coating. Is the contaminant "leaching" out of the lead? It doesn't seem that it would be an oxidation since the coating should prevent oxygen from contacting the lead if it were coated right after casting.

Most of my stores of lead are from wheel weights which could contain contamination. Thanks leadman for tip about root killer. Can a caster mix other things with the melt to remove the all the contaminating metals?

[Shotgundrums]

Doesn't this remove antimony as well? I guess that's not all terrible. Better than chucking the entire lot of lead. I did manage to remove much zinc from contaminated lead ingots, probably with antimony too, by fluxing at low temp and with a bit of saw dust. Oatmeal came straight up and left dead soft lead. Who knows if all traces are gone.

[Ausglock]

I have a heap of micronized PTFE in the cave. Would isopropyl alcohol be a good vehicle for this?
Yep. That is probably the best bullet sizing lube.
I use HI-tek's sizing lube which is basically what you have.
I mix with metho so it doesn't dry off too quickly.

[Shotgundrums]

Excellent. I'll give it a whirl

[Gremlin460]

mmmmm Metho and Orange Juice!!!

[Shotgundrums]

Makes it more palatable

[Ausglock]

mmmmm Metho and Orange Juice!!!

Dr. Jurd's Jungle Juice...

[220]

I'm wondering if the wiser would be to cast and then coat immediately.
Most of the ones I had trouble with received the first coat the same day they were cast.

[HI-TEK]

Yep. That is probably the best bullet sizing lube.
I use HI-tek's sizing lube which is basically what you have.
I mix with metho so it doesn't dry off too quickly.


Just a quick note.
The Hi-Tek-Lube 5000 water based and in Iso Propanol as Hi-Tek Lube 5000/IPA, both contain special colloidal Polymers.
These are particles in suspension ranging from 0.02 microns to about 0.05 microns.
These are very unique, and if comparing this micronised PTFE which is 10-60 microns in size, (and some bigger) as being similar, is a bit of a reach..
I very much doubt that micronised PTFE, could be suspended well in any solvent or water, as possible with the Hi-Tek products.
It is a case of simply comparing them side by side, to see what benefits each produce.
Then, go with the one which you prefer.

[Ausglock]

Well..... Sorta close....sorta.....:bigsmyl2:

[Shotgundrums]

That and I'll polish the lee sizers

[farmerjim]

I have been using Hornady one shot case lube to help size Hi-Tek coated boolits for over a year without any problems. I have some 500 grain 45-70 boolits that I cast and coated with the original swamp green a year ago. They load and shoot fine with no leading.
I think the hornady case lube is just lanolin and alcohol.

[Shotgundrums]

I asked but they won't release the "proprietary composition" other than the 75% n-hexane. But they did say it's not lanolin.

[Shotgundrums]

Welp, I added PTFE to 80% isopropyl alcohol. Shook the lleh out of it. Spritzed some onto coated bullets. Tumbled them around. ISO flashed off. Left thin, powdery PTFE visible on the bullets. They size SO much smoother now. Wow.

[jayjay1]

I do have some rests of CLP Break Free here, which I don´t use anymore.
There´s PTFE in it I suppose.

Will this work?

[HI-TEK]

I do have some rests of CLP Break Free here, which I don´t use anymore.
There´s PTFE in it I suppose.

Will this work?

Any lube should help with sizing after last coating has been applied.
However, the Hi-Tek coatings already contain adequate components, non PTFE, that allow easy sizing.
The Powdered versions, contain best balance of ingredients which provide best results without need for additional lube being required for sizing.
If you wish to use a lube of some sort, that is OK, but please ensure that lube used, does not contaminate work areas or surfaces which may affect coating adhesion.
Best lubes are the ones which are dry and non transferring. Solvent based oily or greasy with or without PTFE, or Silicone types will eventually become a problem with migration due to handling transfer contamination of the residues, even after solvent evaporates.

[Ausglock]

Welp, I added PTFE to 80% isopropyl alcohol. Shook the lleh out of it. Spritzed some onto coated bullets. Tumbled them around. ISO flashed off. Left thin, powdery PTFE visible on the bullets. They size SO much smoother now. Wow.

Told ya.....:bigsmyl2:

[Shotgundrums]

Solvent based oily or greasy with or without PTFE, or Silicone types will eventually become a problem with migration due to handling transfer contamination of the residues, even after solvent evaporates.
what you mean by migration/contamination?..

[HI-TEK]

what you mean by migration/contamination?..

What I am referring to is, that when a product is used, it transfers to surfaces. Those surfaces are then touched by other equipment materials, hands etc, and there is a transfer by contact.
Then touching something else, or placing equipment materials onto other surfaces or areas, there is a deposit left on contact.
Without realising, the spread of such contact material transfer continues to spread such a way.
If products are aerosols, it is impossible to totally confine overspray, which deposits on all surfaces by air/mist movement.
These are the migration contamination I was referring to.

[Shotgundrums]

Ah ok thank you sir!!

[Shotgundrums]

I remember a while back it was mentioned there is a harder coating in development. Is that still underway? I still have my head wrapped around the short shelf life of some of my bullets...

[HI-TEK]

Ah ok thank you sir!!

No problems.

Many years ago, I was visiting a car manufacturer factory.
On arrival, I was stopped from entry, and grilled about where I had been previously.
I found that very confrontational them grilling me.
What it turned out to be, was, that they were concerned, that I may have visited another factory/premises, where there may have been use of Silicone products or similar.
As it turns out, I would have been not allowed inside, because previously, they had a massive problem with paint coatings being applied to cars, where the silicone type products caused all sorts of finish problem, and, I would have possibly carried some on me on my clothes, shoes or on hands if I had visited such areas previously.
It really made a lasting impression on me, as I had never considered such matters.

[HI-TEK]

I remember a while back it was mentioned there is a harder coating in development. Is that still underway? I still have my head wrapped around the short shelf life of some of my bullets...

Yes, you are correct.
A harder version was developed. Shipment of materials were made as solvent based systems in stock at Bayou. It is Gold 1035 system. I dont know if there is much stock left available.
Also, new shipment of powdered version is at wharf in LA, waiting to be cleared by customs.
The new shipment, contains several colours, and is made from harder polymer system, and is made with 2-Extreme system to help with sizing, especially with harder alloys.
All have been tested prior to shipment.

[leadman]

I have some of the Gold 1035 and have used it on many different boolits. It seems to leave a more even coat when tumbled in a container and also has given me excellent prevention of leading at high velocities. The coating sparkles compared to the original Gold, looks great.

[Shotgundrums]

I want some

[HI-TEK]

I have some of the Gold 1035 and have used it on many different boolits. It seems to leave a more even coat when tumbled in a container and also has given me excellent prevention of leading at high velocities. The coating sparkles compared to the original Gold, looks great.

Leadman, if you like the Gold 1035, we now have even a more Glittery Yellow Gold colour both in Powder and in liquid which would really please you.
When you look at coating, it looks like hundreds of little gold mirrors reflecting back.
No material in US as yet, and is being tested here first.
It should perform as well if not slightly better than 1035 Gold, and is in the hard polymer with
2-Extreme already built in.

[leadman]

I wonder if I could exceed my top velocity of 3,619 fps with the new Gold ?? I would have to buy a new barrel for my Encore, probably in 220 Swift or 22-250 as I am pretty sure I have topped out the 223 Rem.

I also read a review some time back on the Winchester 22 LR ammo with bullets made of tin. The accuracy was not very good. I wonder if HT coating could solve this problem?

[ioon44]

A quick question,
I have some boolits that have 1 coat of 5-1-6 Hi-Tek Black that has been on them for about 6 weeks with out being baked (too much other stuff going on + cold weather) has anyone waited this long before baking?

[2wheelDuke]

I'm really interested in the powder version. I haven't even used half of my liquid up yet. I'm waiting for some new syringes right now. I kinda wiped the markings off by accident, and I had a decent thing going by measuring what I apply to counted boolits instead of eyeballing things.

It's time to go eat, drink, and be merry today and not stay home alone making bullets anyway. Then I have a busy work week coming up, maybe I can get all these boolits coated after that.

[220]

I had a decent thing going by measuring what I apply to counted boolits instead of eyeballing things.


Try weighing them instead of counting it will be quicker.
I measure everything I apply and work on ml/kg.

[Forgetful]

I'm a little confused (my normal state) about the contamination in the lead breaking the bond between lead and coating. Is the contaminant "leaching" out of the lead? It doesn't seem that it would be an oxidation since the coating should prevent oxygen from contacting the lead if it were coated right after casting.

Most of my stores of lead are from wheel weights which could contain contamination. Thanks leadman for tip about root killer. Can a caster mix other things with the melt to remove the all the contaminating metals?

It's worth mentioning that a small amount of dissolved Copper in your alloy will provide a resistance to oxidation and corrosion.

Having any zinc in your lead alloy will also cause an "internal" corrosion process.

When using copper sulfate, the zinc reacts first before the tin can react with it. You will remove all zinc.

[HATCH]

Am I reading this correctly. Properly coated boolits will fail over time due to corrosion and oxidation?

[HI-TEK]

Am I reading this correctly. Properly coated boolits will fail over time due to corrosion and oxidation?

You have read about corrosion failures.
It is not the coating that corrodes.
Impurities contained in alloy, eventually causes adhesion failures due to powdery formations between alloy and coating, and that is why failures occur after a period of time.
Properly furnaced alloys, coated, remain as is for years.

[Dusty1234]

What is the difference between black and black 1035? I am going to order some hi tek powder just wondering the difference between the two.

[HI-TEK]

What is the difference between black and black 1035? I am going to order some hi tek powder just wondering the difference between the two.

Black is simply a black coating.
Black 1035 (Texas Tea) the black coating contains particles, (golden colour) and has slightly better heat reflecting ability and has increased load carrying capacity..

[Dusty1234]

Texas Tea it is!!! Thanks

[HATCH]

I use foundry lead and it doesn't corrode or hasn't so far.

[bosco555]

Joe..would love some of the new Gold 1035 then please...!!!

[HI-TEK]

I use foundry lead and it doesn't corrode or hasn't so far.

Majority of foundries do the right thing and refine Lead well.
It costs a lot of money to refine recycled Lead, especially the ones from Lead Acid batteries and alloyed Lead.
Two main problems are Zinc, Cadmium, and there may be possibly other metals in the Lead Lead, depending on what it was used for.

I have Lead snapper sinkers, made from scrap Lead, and all form white crystalline powdery crust, sitting on a shelf inside my shed.
Other sinkers, made earlier from sheet Lead, have no such surface powdery formation, and these sit side by side on same shelf.
I can only put it down to contamination in the scrap Lead I used with making the ones with surface "corrosion".

[leadman]

Those interested in using the Zep Root Killer for fluxing their lead should look up the threads on copper hardening their alloy. I have used it and it did remove whatever was causing the difficult fill out and later corrosion. The side effects are the need to add some tin back into the alloy and it does harden the alloy.
The coating then does adhere very well after the Zep treatment.

[bosco555]

Those interested in using the Zep Root Killer for fluxing their lead should look up the threads on copper hardening their alloy. I have used it and it did remove whatever was causing the difficult fill out and later corrosion. The side effects are the need to add some tin back into the alloy and it does harden the alloy.
The coating then does adhere very well after the Zep treatment.

How much of it do you use? I looked at that product and the closest we have here in Aus is Copper Sulphate from Bunnings...
Harder alloy means better accuracy, not so my dear Watson? :veryconfu

[HI-TEK]

How much of it do you use? I looked at that product and the closest we have here in Aus is Copper Sulphate from Bunnings...
Harder alloy means better accuracy, not so my dear Watson? :veryconfu

Bunnings Copper Sulphate would be suitable.
It is best to shop around, as Copper Sulphate is available in produce stores, and garden supplies as it is used as a fungicide on plants.
You do not need high quality grade or refined Copper Sulphate.
What you are essentially doing with Copper Sulphate, is precipitating the Copper from the Copper Sulphate, by metal displacement by more reactive metals, including contaminants, as contained in Lead Alloys. The displaced Copper ends up in the Lead melt.
Using Copper Sulphate, you are scavenging more reactive metals such as Tin, Antimony, Zinc, Cadmium, etc etc, from the Lead, and these more active metals displace the Copper from its salt.
(The process can be compared to dipping a nail into solution of Copper Sulphate, and immediately you see a reaction, where the Nail starts to dissolve, and Copper is deposited on nail surface).
The result is that active metal salts, or whatever is formed by the "fluxing" , then becomes scum on top of molten Lead, and in effect, impurities are removed from Lead, (as well as Tin) but in turn, the process introduces Copper into the Lead alloy.
The usage rate of Copper Sulphate, will greatly depend on contamination levels in the alloy you are trying to clean up and the volume of alloy being treated..

[bosco555]

Hi Joe, and thanks for that info, much appreciated..may I purchase some of that Gold 1035, please? I emailed you this morning..didn't know if you were there or not..
Thanks again
bosco

[HI-TEK]

Hi Joe, and thanks for that info, much appreciated..may I purchase some of that Gold 1035, please? I emailed you this morning..didn't know if you were there or not..
Thanks again
bosco

No problem.
I did not get any Email.

[bosco555]

@Hi-Tek..sent you a pm

[Shotgundrums]

Joe, Is the Black 1035 harder polymer like the gold?

[HI-TEK]

Joe, Is the Black 1035 harder polymer like the gold?

Yes, it certainly is.

[Shotgundrums]

Yes, it certainly is.
Cool. Are there any others on the way, or under further development? Shiz, I know you guys aren't stopping here :)

[HI-TEK]

Cool. Are there any others on the way, or under further development? Shiz, I know you guys aren't stopping here :)

As far as I am aware, arrival and custom clearance was done in LA, and delivery was next week.
In the delivery, there is Black Red 122L, Red 122K, Red 254, Zombie Green, Brown Copper, Red Copper, Gold 1035, Texas Tea, Old Gold, and last, but not Least, Candy Apple.
That should keep some folk happy for a week or two...
All were tested here and were found to pass all tests.
I am aware, that there are quite a few that already had pre-ordered some product. I do not know how much will be left with various colours.
With some colours, it may be a matter of first in, best dressed .

We do have some Hush Hush new developments, but no releases until we do lots of tests first.

[Shotgundrums]

Ok, a couple observations with the zep copper sulfate: it did pull about every trace of base metals out. From what I can tell. As soon as I put the blue flux in the and start to stir it it wants to bubble slightly. I added some tin solder back in. I bring the pot to 750. When I water drop the bullets they don't zizzle anymore. The bullets can fingernail scratch easily now. I guess they're not as hard anymore...how much zep to add.?

[HI-TEK]

Ok, a couple observations with the zep copper sulfate: it did pull about every trace of base metals out. From what I can tell. As soon as I put the blue flux in the and start to stir it it wants to bubble slightly. I added some tin solder back in. I bring the pot to 750. When I water drop the bullets they don't zizzle anymore. The bullets can fingernail scratch easily now. I guess they're not as hard anymore...how much zep to add.?

If you have reactive metal contaminants in alloy, the sizzle, may be due to those metals "reacting" with the water at high temperatures.
The sizzle may be due to alloy being at high temperature.

When adding the blue salt, you should expect some bubbling. This is due to water of "hydration" of the bluestone, which has water attached to the Copper Sulphate. (Formula is CuSO4.5H2O)
The crystals contain 5 moles of water.
At alloy melt temperature, this would drive off the water from the Copper Sulphate.
Your question as to how much Copper Sulphate to use is a good one, but is very difficult to answer.
In simple terms, you would need to know the weight of impurities that is in the alloy.
Without a laboratory doing an assay, and identifying contaminants, and the percentage contained in the Lead, you are really working in the dark.
It becomes a trial some, and see the results.
My suggestion is that you start with small amounts, until you can see changes in the cast alloy.
Using excess, Copper Sulphate, does not damage Lead, but should remove all traces of base metals, and you end up with a much purer Lead, that now contains Copper instead.
How much Copper, will depend on furnacing temperature, and how much Oxidation will take place during your processing.
Sorry, but unless to have an Arc Atomic absorption Spectrograph, in your shed, you are really guessing about composition of your final alloy.

[Shotgundrums]

If you have reactive metal contaminants in alloy, the sizzle, may be due to those metals "reacting" with the water at high temperatures.
The sizzle may be due to alloy being at high temperature.

When adding the blue salt, you should expect some bubbling. This is due to water of "hydration" of the bluestone, which has water attached to the Copper Sulphate. (Formula is CuSO4.5H2O)
The crystals contain 5 moles of water.
At alloy melt temperature, this would drive off the water from the Copper Sulphate.
Your question as to how much Copper Sulphate to use is a good one, but is very difficult to answer.
In simple terms, you would need to know the weight of impurities that is in the alloy.
Without a laboratory doing an assay, and identifying contaminants, and the percentage contained in the Lead, you are really working in the dark.
It becomes a trial some, and see the results.
My suggestion is that you start with small amounts, until you can see changes in the cast alloy.
Using excess, Copper Sulphate, does not damage Lead, but should remove all traces of base metals, and you end up with a much purer Lead, that now contains Copper instead.
How much Copper, will depend on furnacing temperature, and how much Oxidation will take place during your processing.
Sorry, but unless to have an Arc Atomic absorption Spectrograph, in your shed, you are really guessing about composition of your final alloy.
Ok so it's down to trial and error to the garage tech lol. Good to know about the water. I'll wait and also push it around until the moisture flashed out. Now I did try tinning some copper but I was unsuccessful in getting it into the allow. It was thin pure copper wire...

[leadman]

I put a teaspoon or so of the Root Killer on the top of the hot lead. When the color changes from blue to whitish then stir it in a little at a time. The is moisture in the blue crystals that needs to evaporate. Crushing the crystals helps even more.
I have not had the antimony removed from my alloys and found only the need to add enough tin so the alloy casts well again.
I normally only flux twice with the Root Killer in my 22 pound pot.

Do a search as there is much info here on doing this.

[Shotgundrums]

Awesome thanks!!

[Shotgundrums]

Joe, is this something you and the mad scientists are willing to experiment on too? And whether or not Cu2SO4 will pull Sn and or Sb out. As Leadman depicted with honing hard bullets it makes sense Sb remained. Thanks everyone for the input too:)
sgd

[HI-TEK]

Joe, is this something you and the mad scientists are willing to experiment on too? And whether or not Cu2SO4 will pull Sn and or Sb out. As Leadman depicted with honing hard bullets it makes sense Sb remained. Thanks everyone for the input too:)
sgd


Unfortunately, due to the metal reactivity, the metals that are more reactive than Copper will be scavenged, but at different rates..
I suppose, the more reactive the metal, those ones will be scavenged before others.
If you look at the Atomic Table of elements, all metals listed above copper would be removed at various rates.
Leadman, is correct in his advice to add small amounts of Copper Sulphate. That way you are not causing a mass scavenge of all reactive metals, and, it is most likely that the worst contaminants such as Zinc, Cadmium, Aluminium (if present), will be removed, before your Tin & Antimony, as they are all more reactive than Tin & Antimony.
And, to answer your question about my experimenting, on reactivity with Copper Sulphate treatments of alloys, the answer is no. I really have no time to play.
The other problem is, no two persons have same Lead source and contaminations.
They would all require different rates of treatment.

[Ausglock]

We do have some Hush Hush new developments, but no releases until we do lots of tests first.

I'm feeling a little blue.... blue is the colour of my eyes. a bright blue sky is very nice. a Gold glow in a blue sky is very pleasing.

I have a purple shirt. it is nice. purple suits me. it matches nicely with a Gold tie.

:bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

I'm feeling a little blue.... blue is the colour of my eyes. a bright blue sky is very nice. a Gold glow in a blue sky is very pleasing.

I have a purple shirt. it is nice. purple suits me. it matches nicely with a Gold tie.

:bigsmyl2:


That wedding you attended , may have had some funny stuff in the drinks..lol..lol
Its pitch black night, so I dont know how you can see blue skies???:veryconfu:veryconfu

[cptkeybrd]

Hi there Hi Tech
haven't been on in awhile, would like to get a batch to try could you send me the info?
cptkeybrd at aol dot com
gracias

[HI-TEK]

Hi there Hi Tech
haven't been on in awhile, would like to get a batch to try could you send me the info?
cptkeybrd at aol dot com
gracias

Hi
I sent you an email.
Did you get it?

[leadman]

Forgot to post tthis on the copper sulfate. If you just want to harden the alloy and have no problem with zinc you will have to add some zinc to the alloy first. A newer penny that is copper plated zinc will work. I read that the copper sulfate needs to replace the zinc and is difficult to add to the alloy if there is no zinc available.

[Joe504]

Forgot to post tthis on the copper sulfate. If you just want to harden the alloy and have no problem with zinc you will have to add some zinc to the alloy first. A newer penny that is copper plated zinc will work. I read that the copper sulfate needs to replace the zinc and is difficult to add to the alloy if there is no zinc available.
Can someone further explain this?

[popper]

Newer pennies are Cu plated Zn. Be sure to break them in half before putting in the pot - Cu melts at a really high temp. You have to melt the zinc to get it to work. CuSo5 replaces tin or zinc in a 5:1 weight ratio. Dross will be a very fine lite weight grey or brown powder. No metal! Dispose of it.

[Joe504]

So, adding a zinc penny to my pot, will remove any zinc in my alloy? I missed something. Are we trying to get the zinc out of the alloy, or something. I do apologize for not getting this on the first go around.

[popper]

Um, no. CuSO4 will REMOVE Zn & add Cu. < 1% Zn in your alloy will not hurt anything.

[Joe504]

Ok, so, to prevent zinc leaking out at some later date, and causing my coating to flake off, I can add a Cu plated Zn penny to flux out the unwanted zinc.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

[HI-TEK]

Ok, so, to prevent zinc leaking out at some later date, and causing my coating to flake off, I can add a Cu plated Zn penny to flux out the unwanted zinc.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

Ideally, if reactive metals such as Zinc, Cadmium or similar can be avoided in alloy, it will be much better.
Zinc especially, can form volumes of white Oxides with moisture and corrosion.

Manufacturers, who coat things like Aluminium, alloyed metals, often have to acid treat, (anodise) metals to remove surface "reactivity" to get a good bond with surfaces.

What cannot be predicted is, the effects on bonded coatings, on the many & various alloy compositions, without such "deactivation" being done first, by either pre-treatment of alloy, or adding various things to change alloy properties.

[PAT303]

I shot last saturday,365316 and 316299 NOE boolits along with CBE 220314.The boolits were a mix of air cooled WW/range scrap and straight WW dropped quenched after the second coat,all were loaded over 23grns of 2207 with wheat germ filler.At 100 they shot 2'' or under and I had no issue hitting a gong at 230mtrs prone,they shot 5'' at that range but I was just shooting to hit it nothing else,after 100+ rounds both rifles,No4 2groove and H barrel Mk3 were as clean as could be,I am sold on Hi-Tek,the stuff just works. Pat

[Valerko]

I'm stumped. I'm casting mostly 9 and 40. 9 is out of Mihac mold ( no lube grooves) 2 coats and no issues , no leading just a little plastic burning smell when shooting. No sizing , load them like they drop
But 40 leads all the time. Lee tumble lube mold .Tried one coat , then size to 401 , then coat again. Then tried 2 coats after sizing , then tried no sizing at all and 2 coats. Still get leading. Loads are fairly mild , pretty much just to make power factor . Leading is not horrible , nothing that chore boy can't handle , but it is annoying.
Any ideas ?

[leadman]

I have inspected several semi auto handguns that had no leade ahead of the chamber. Rifling came right to the chamber with a blunt end and was cutting the coating.
If you can make a dummy round and leave the boolit loaded long, put it in the chamber of the barrel and turn it while putting a little pressure in on the base of the cartridge. If the lack of a leade is the problem you should see the coating cut.

[Ausglock]

If you can smell "burning plastic" you are not baking long enough.

[Gremlin460]

If you can smell "burning plastic" you are not baking long enough.

Or your Grock is on fire...

[Valerko]

No glocks here.
I've tried baking it longer , turns from green to brown with same result.

[popper]

Valerko - I coat twice, then size. Using 50/50 COWW/pure & Cu. I cook for 1 hr on the last bake & drop in cold tap water. Yes, the green turns slightly brown. Without the WD, 3 XDs9s will lead. Same with the PX4 40 & XD 40. I have that Lee mould, got better results PCing. The sharp edge transition from neck to bore in SA is really rough on boolits. I guess reamers are cheaper to make without a proper chamfer on the edge. Some one here posted a way to break the edge, don't remember the details. Maybe the rent-a-reamer guys have a reamer to break the edge. Anyway, as 9 & 40 are high pressure , harder alloy solved my problem.

[gunoil]

Check out hardline industries for best bullet molds in N. Dakota. It does help, l've gone away from aluminum molds.

https://www.hardlineindustries.com/

[Shotgundrums]

Valerko - I coat twice, then size. Using 50/50 COWW/pure & Cu. I cook for 1 hr on the last bake & drop in cold tap water. Yes, the green turns slightly brown. Without the WD, 3 XDs9s will lead. Same with the PX4 40 & XD 40. I have that Lee mould, got better results PCing. The sharp edge transition from neck to bore in SA is really rough on boolits. I guess reamers are cheaper to make without a proper chamfer on the edge. Some one here posted a way to break the edge, don't remember the details. Maybe the rent-a-reamer guys have a reamer to break the edge. Anyway, as 9 & 40 are high pressure , harder alloy solved my problem.
popper what method do you use to put Cu into your alloy?

[Balta]

My first 'goldies'

[Balta]

And some HPs in brown copper .smash test results was so much better after incresing drying time,left them to dry overnight

[HI-TEK]

My first 'goldies'

They look brilliant.
Well done.
How many did you coat?
With coating and drying, unless you have ideal conditions,being warm and dry, simply dont rush things.
I have advised, that in cold damp areas, it mat be advantageous to warm alloy to 25-30C before coating with a slightly more diluted mixture.
That way, the warm alloy with coating, dries quicker, and does not attract moisture by solvent evaporating/chilling effects on alloy.

[HI-TEK]

And some HPs in brown copper .smash test results was so much better after incresing drying time,left them to dry overnight

These look great also. It seems you are getting to be an expert, and quickly.

[ioon44]

They look brilliant.
Well done.
How many did you coat?
With coating and drying, unless you have ideal conditions,being warm and dry, simply dont rush things.
I have advised, that in cold damp areas, it mat be advantageous to warm alloy to 25-30C before coating with a slightly more diluted mixture.
That way, the warm alloy with coating, dries quicker, and does not attract moisture by solvent evaporating/chilling effects on alloy.

What temp over 25-30C would be to warm for the alloy in getting the coating to dry in cold damp areas? Would 5-1-7 be diluted enough for the Black HI-Tek coating?

[Balta]

They look brilliant.
Well done.
How many did you coat?
With coating and drying, unless you have ideal conditions,being warm and dry, simply dont rush things.
I have advised, that in cold damp areas, it mat be advantageous to warm alloy to 25-30C before coating with a slightly more diluted mixture.
That way, the warm alloy with coating, dries quicker, and does not attract moisture by solvent evaporating/chilling effects on alloy.
This is small batch of GOLD;300 rounds total.I have in Brown Copper more that 5 thousands coated.I do 3 coats with Brown Copper because i want to my bullets look nice...:) Gold Can go with just 2 coats...Because of high procent of moister in my area,i use diluted mixture of 10 grams of HiTek powder to 60-65 mills of acetone.I let them dry overnight and warm them,before baking,leaving a tray with bullets at my oven for 15 minutes...I have 100% succes with this procedure.Lot of my previous fails was caused by improperly dry projectiles before bake.Also i find that is important not to expose projectiles to temp over 205 -210 Celsius .You can bake longer time at temp up to 205 without problems but higher temp will make coating chip.I bake my 12 minutes at 200 ,and shake the tray after 6 minutes.This dont count time that oven need to reach 200 temp,it is fully 12 min at 200 C.

[Balta]

These look great also. It seems you are getting to be an expert, and quickly.

What you mean "getting to be an expert"?!!! I am EXPERT ,hahahaha :):bigsmyl2:

[HI-TEK]

What temp over 25-30C would be to warm for the alloy in getting the coating to dry in cold damp areas? Would 5-1-7 be diluted enough for the Black HI-Tek coating?


HI,
If you warm alloy much more, then solvent during coating solvent will flash off too fast, and you may not get every thing covered evenly and film may become irregular.

By having the alloy warm, this tends to be less attractive to moisture pick up during solvent drying whilst coating, and warm alloy will force solvent/vapour out through the coating film.

Using 5-1-7 or 5-1-8 or even up to 5-1-10 is also OK with coatings, but it really is dependent on users requirements. The coating is fairly "flexible" with dilutions and volumes used.

As Ausglock said, "Less is More"

Please keep in mind, that the finish does not have to look pretty, nor does it have to be a thick coating, and it will work well as long as it is bonded to alloy.
Strangely using very thin or diluted coating mixtures, 2 or three of such coats, will produce best results both with appearance and and for end use, and you end up using less coating but more solvent.

[HI-TEK]

What you mean "getting to be an expert"?!!! I am EXPERT ,hahahaha :):bigsmyl2:

Well, I have to admit, you are right...:bigsmyl2:

[Ausglock]

I checked the temp of my bullets before coating.
They are at 23 deg C.
this was on stinking hot days (38 deg C) as well as normal days (25 deg C)

In winter, I coat, leave for 1/2 hour. warm with a hair dryer so that you can feel the bullets are warmer than your handwhen you touch them. then place on top of the oven while the previous tray is baking.
then swap the warm tray to the oven and repeat the process.

no failures.

[PAT303]

I leave mine overnight and put them on top of the oven to pre warm before cooking,I did get the plastic smell yesterday so one batch was under cooked,I use a clock now instead of the timer,my coated groups are every bit the equal of any other types of lubes,I do three coats very thin each time as I found that gives much better adhesion to the alloy,3mls per kilo of boolits. Pat

[HI-TEK]

I leave mine overnight and put them on top of the oven to pre warm before cooking,I did get the plastic smell yesterday so one batch was under cooked,I use a clock now instead of the timer,my coated groups are every bit the equal of any other types of lubes,I do three coats very thin each time as I found that gives much better adhesion to the alloy,3mls per kilo of boolits. Pat

Sounds like you are onto it.
From your descriptions, it seems/suggests to me, that with first coat, you may be using too strong a mix, or using a little more coating mixture than required.
It really does not matter how the first coat looks, as it is simply a "key coat" that locks coating to alloy..
If first coat is bonded OK, all coats following should also bond.

With drying overnight, unless it is cool and damp and is poor drying conditions, (and if may be, you used too much coating) such long drying, is possibly not necessary, but is useful if you are not in a hurry.

[ioon44]

HI,
If you warm alloy much more, then solvent during coating solvent will flash off too fast, and you may not get every thing covered evenly and film may become irregular.

By having the alloy warm, this tends to be less attractive to moisture pick up during solvent drying whilst coating, and warm alloy will force solvent/vapour out through the coating film.

Using 5-1-7 or 5-1-8 or even up to 5-1-10 is also OK with coatings, but it really is dependent on users requirements. The coating is fairly "flexible" with dilutions and volumes used.

As Ausglock said, "Less is More"

Please keep in mind, that the finish does not have to look pretty, nor does it have to be a thick coating, and it will work well as long as it is bonded to alloy.
Strangely using very thin or diluted coating mixtures, 2 or three of such coats, will produce best results both with appearance and and for end use, and you end up using less coating but more solvent.

Thank you for the reply, I can see now what I need to change with my process.

[Dusty1234]

What are ya'll using for bullet lube when sizing? Also after bullet lubing can you add another coat?


Thanks

[Ausglock]

Use HI-tek sizing lube.
you can't add another coat once you use the sizing lube.

You can do 1 coat, size without lube and then do the second coat.

[Dusty1234]

Thanks Ausglock

[Chunky Monkey]

Use HI-tek sizing lube.
you can't add another coat once you use the sizing lube.

You can do 1 coat, size without lube and then do the second coat.

where can the sizing lube be purchased from? i assume you coat them after after all coatings are applied and baked. how is it applied?

my only problem is the sizing. i am using a Lyman 4500 and without lube utter is a chore to size then.

[HI-TEK]

where can the sizing lube be purchased from? i assume you coat them after after all coatings are applied and baked. how is it applied?

my only problem is the sizing. i am using a Layman 4500 and without lube utter is a chore to size then.

You can get sizing lube concentrate from Bayou Bullet Company.
I dont know for sure, but Gateway may also have stocks.
This material (Hi-Tek Aqualube 5000 concentrate) can be diluted with water, or denatured Alcohol or Acetone.
This stuff goes a long way, as about 1/28th of an ounce of concentrate diluted, will cover about 40 square yards of surface area.
Dilution needs to be at a bout 2 part of Sizing lube concentrate, to 20-25 parts of chosen diluent.
Then it is a simple case of spritzing of diluted material, Mixed well) onto the coated projectiles, dry and size.
Alcohol or Acetone diluted applied product will dry faster that water diluted one.
The film that will form, is a dry non transferring material that is a powerful lubricant release agent.
Once applied to a surface, it prevents surfaces being wet again, repels oil water and solvents, and will not allow re-coating to occur.
Dry film is extremely slippery, don't spill or apply onto surfaces where it is not required as is almost impossible to remove without sandblasting or abrasive sanding.
Please do not contaminate coating container as it may interfere with coating process.

[gunoil]

Hum! Hi-tek would that dry stuff work on my glock. You might be inventing the best gun lube in the world. Well hell, go for it.

[zomby woof]

I spritz mine with my lanolin/alcohol mix. sizes much easier.

[HI-TEK]

I spritz mine with my lanolin/alcohol mix. sizes much easier.


Lanolin is a great lubricant.
But I feel that using greasy lubes is defeating the purpose of having clean dry ammo and guns.
Biggest downfall of any great lube, oil or grease types, is that they are all are excellent also for picking up dust, dirt, and, this entrapped dust dirt that ends up in those lubes, then becomes an abrasive suspended in those lubes.
Not to mention, that the lube becomes a contaminant onto every surface that it comes in contact with.
Ideally, all lubes work well, but require constant cleaning removal and reapplication with clean lubes, mainly to remove dirt, muck, that becomes trapped in the lube.
The ideal quest for any lube is that it lubricates mating sliding surfaces, repels contaminants such as dust, dirt etc etc, and is reasonably non contaminating and lubrication film remains dry.
The Hi-Tek 5000, is not perfect at all, but does go a long way towards what is required and really works as a dry film lube, and very slippery.

[Chunky Monkey]

Called Mr. Miculek this morning and he indicated that he has not received his shipment of sizing lube yet.

he said that in a pinch one could use a very little bit of lemon pledge.

[HI-TEK]

Hum! Hi-tek would that dry stuff work on my glock. You might be inventing the best gun lube in the world. Well hell, go for it.

It just depends on what you are trying to do.
It may not be best in some applications.
I know that with sliding, pivoting and with any two surfaces that rub, will greatly benefit with a dry lube, and will allow very smooth movement and separate/lubricate surfaces.

People use this stuff to lubricate Aluminium saws, aluminium windows, conveyor belts, Roll a doors,
Wooden drawers in household use, hinges, and the list goes on.
I have heard that some folk had used it on top of stone surfaces to reduce staining by spilled contaminants.

[HI-TEK]

Called Mr. Miculek this morning and he indicated that he has not received his shipment of sizing lube yet.

he said that in a pinch one could use a very little bit of lemon pledge.

Those shipping people can be slow, The stuff arrived into us on the 20th last month.
I know there is a back up in the port, and with custom clearances.

"Lemon Pledge"?????:-|:roll::roll::roll:

[gunoil]

Well, bug in your ear. Been using militec, hi-tek, u can eventually beat militec. l know.

[Ausglock]

Yes it works as a dry lube on Glocks.
I have been using it on my G35 in 357Sig.
But.... when dry, it leaves a white powdery residue if you mix it too strong.
Use Acetone as the carrier if you do use it as a gun lube. will flash off quicker.
I also use it to lube the moving parts on my reloading presses. Dillon squaredeal and 550B run smoooooooooooth.

[HI-TEK]

Yes it works as a dry lube on Glocks.
I have been using it on my G35 in 357Sig.
But.... when dry, it leaves a white powdery residue if you mix it too strong.
Use Acetone as the carrier if you do use it as a gun lube. will flash off quicker.
I also use it to lube the moving parts on my reloading presses. Dillon squaredeal and 550B run smoooooooooooth.


That is why you require to dilute the product to 2 parts to 20-25 parts of chosen solvent/diluent.
You do not need much at all to do the work. Any white powdery excess is easily wiped off, and residue is plenty, and will work
If you dont want to wipe off excess, the action/movement will rub off excess to suit, (and, you use more product lol lol :bigsmyl2: )

[thespice]

That wedding you attended , may have had some funny stuff in the drinks..lol..lol
Its pitch black night, so I dont know how you can see blue skies???:veryconfu:veryconfu

does the guy who makes projectiles inlithgow I think he goes by name "lone colt projectiles" use your coating as ive seen some off his stuff and you could scratch the coating off with ya nail... its was dark metallic green

[Ausglock]

Is that Ray Gray?

[HI-TEK]

does the guy who makes projectiles inlithgow I think he goes by name "lone colt projectiles" use your coating as ive seen some off his stuff and you could scratch the coating off with ya nail... its was dark metallic green

The Lithgow guy does use our coating but it is not metallic but a dark Green.
At this point, I dont know why his coating would be able to be scratched off with finger nails.
I have some ideas, but until it is investigated thoroughly, I cant give you an answer.
This is first time I have heard a complaint about his product, and, he has been using the coating for years.
I will try to communicate with owner, but as you are aware that is extremely difficult, as he is deaf, and written instructions or questions is only way to communicate.

[HI-TEK]

Is that Ray Gray?

No, it is not Ray.
I dont supply any coating to him, I used to, but he went another way.

[HI-TEK]

Well, bug in your ear. Been using militec, hi-tek, u can eventually beat militec. l know.

Gunoil
I don't know about beating any other product, but it is a great and optimistic target.
From what I can tell, the grade I looked at, is a Lithium based grease, that seems to contain Xylene solvent, corrosion inhibitor and an extreme lube additive.
It is a great grease lube, and, seems to me, quite an expensive product in small packs.
From what I know, most Lithium greases are emulsified with water unless they contain water resisting/repelling additives. That material does not seem to have such additives, but may be the base fluid is Water repelling itself.
It seems that it is used and well advertised in the US.

[thespice]

The Lithgow guy does use our coating but it is not metallic but a dark Green.
At this point, I dont know why his coating would be able to be scratched off with finger nails.
I have some ideas, but until it is investigated thoroughly, I cant give you an answer.
This is first time I have heard a complaint about his product, and, he has been using the coating for years.
I will try to communicate with owner, but as you are aware that is extremely difficult, as he is deaf, and written instructions or questions is only way to communicate.
yeah that's the stuff looks metalic to my eyes but looking better yeah dark green... just tried again on few samples I got given few months ago and it will come off with ya nail for sure... but I think he knows that as when my mate bought these off him he did tell him they cant be pushes to fast as the coating aint tough and comes off with ya nail... maybe he just had bad batch he sold....

[HI-TEK]

yeah that's the stuff looks metalic to my eyes but looking better yeah dark green... just tried again on few samples I got given few months ago and it will come off with ya nail for sure... but I think he knows that as when my mate bought these off him he did tell him they cant be pushes to fast as the coating aint tough and comes off with ya nail... maybe he just had bad batch he sold....

Just for interest sake, what does the surface off alloy looks like after coating is removed?

I spoke to a couple of his customers, and was told that sometimes he gets large orders, and impossible delivery deadlines, and, I suspect he may have rushed things a bit.
As a general observation, if first coat is applied too thick and not dried enough before bake that is most probably is main suspicion for poor adhesion.
Second guess is, that he may have overloaded his oven, and the bullets were not done correctly or received uneven cook.
Possibly it also could be a combination of the two scenarios.

With limiting the speed, he may already knows that they were not perfect.
There is really no reason to limit speeds with the coating, but alloy properties is limiting factor.

[thespice]

Just for interest sake, what does the surface off alloy looks like after coating is removed?

I spoke to a couple of his customers, and was told that sometimes he gets large orders, and impossible delivery deadlines, and, I suspect he may have rushed things a bit.
As a general observation, if first coat is applied too thick and not dried enough before bake that is most probably is main suspicion for poor adhesion.
Second guess is, that he may have overloaded his oven, and the bullets were not done correctly or received uneven cook.
Possibly it also could be a combination of the two scenarios.

With limiting the speed, he may already knows that they were not perfect.
There is really no reason to limit speeds with the coating, but alloy properties is limiting factor.

shiny when first scratched off but dulls quickly...deff nothing like the lead I make mine outta ww an bit of tin just keeps shiny and hardish for ever....
so you saying about speed can you coatings be pushed to 2100fps with no gas check then..i want to shoot 125gn hollow points I cast outta my 357 mag marlin at same speed as jacketed as jacketed are non exsistent these days...

[HI-TEK]

shiny when first scratched off but dulls quickly...deff nothing like the lead I make mine outta ww an bit of tin just keeps shiny and hardish for ever....
so you saying about speed can you coatings be pushed to 2100fps with no gas check then..i want to shoot 125gn hollow points I cast outta my 357 mag marlin at same speed as jacketed as jacketed are non exsistent these days...

I dont know if you have been following this blog over a period.
There is many results published where the coatings have been really pushed far above what you require.
Main thing is, that the alloys were made with hard alloy mixtures, if I recall 32-34, Gunoil had also published some results as well.
To achieve jacketed speeds, you cant simply use any scrap Lead, but you need to have a suitable alloy mix, and, after coating, sized correctly to suit barrel.
Some results were with non gas checked ammo.
Below are some results; hope it is useful to you. Apology for long report.....

All the boolits were coated with the Red Copper Hi-Tek.
Here are the results of my range session yesterday:
Savage 30-06 200grs, 314299 GC'd, Heat Treated Lino 32BHN, sized .311", Reloder 17 powder, Fed 210 primer, 3.3" oal.
charge avg vel. group size 100 yards
45grs no reading 1,835"
46grs no reading 4.958"
47grs 2,397 fps 1.469"
48grs 2,396 fps 4.921"
49grs 2,483 fps 3.75"
50grs 2,484fps 3.395"
51grs 2,508 fps 6.0" + This charge is max per Alliant for jacketed

AR15 in 5.56, 16"? barrel, Lyman 45gr RN GC'd, Heat Treated Lino, Sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.025", crimped
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
22.5grs 2,502 fps 2.916"
23grs 2,603 fps 4.06"
23.5grs 2,596 fps 1.230"
24 grs 2,666 fps 3.386"
24.5grs 2,754fps 2.450" This load is over 3,100 fps in my 23" Contender

Contender 23" Heavy Barrel in 223 Rem. 45gr Lyman RN, Heat Treated Lino, GC'd, sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.02".
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
24.5grs 3,159 fps 3.812"
25 grs 3,272 fps 3.682"
25.5 grs 3,346 fps 1.830"
26 grs 3,360 fps 3.256"
26.5grs 3,400 fps 2.907"
27grs 3,460 fps 2.482"
27.5grs 3,489 fps 2.181" Two tiny specks of lead on the dry patch

All of the top charges in the 3 guns was at max case expansion. Temperature was also about 114 degrees when we finished firing the groups.


***************
I went to the range Wednesday to continue the test of the Lee 200gr RN GC in my 1960s era Savage 110 CL in 30-06. The powder is H1000, WLR, sized .309", Hi-Tek Gold 1035. I started at 58 gr and went up a grain at a time to 61 grains. Range was 100 yards, 5 shots.
Here are the results:

#1 58grs, avg. velocity 2,445 fps, Group size 1.602" for 5 shots
#2 59grs, avg. velocity 2,470 fps, group size 1.311" for 5 shots
#3 60grs, avg. velocity 2,510 fps, group size 2.217", one pulled left
#4 61grs, avg. velocity 2,547 fps, group size 2.708"
***************

All the boolits were coated with the Red Copper Hi-Tek.
Here are the results of my range session yesterday:
Savage 30-06 200grs, 314299 GC'd, Heat Treated Lino 32BHN, sized .311", Reloder 17 powder, Fed 210 primer, 3.3" oal.
charge avg vel. group size 100 yards
45grs no reading 1,835"
46grs no reading 4.958"
47grs 2,397 fps 1.469"
48grs 2,396 fps 4.921"
49grs 2,483 fps 3.75"
50grs 2,484fps 3.395"
51grs 2,508 fps 6.0" + This charge is max per Alliant for jacketed

AR15 in 5.56, 16"? barrel, Lyman 45gr RN GC'd, Heat Treated Lino, Sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.025", crimped
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
22.5grs 2,502 fps 2.916"
23grs 2,603 fps 4.06"
23.5grs 2,596 fps 1.230"
24 grs 2,666 fps 3.386"
24.5grs 2,754fps 2.450" This load is over 3,100 fps in my 23" Contender

Contender 23" Heavy Barrel in 223 Rem. 45gr Lyman RN, Heat Treated Lino, GC'd, sized .225", H4895, WSR, 2.02".
Charge Avg Vel. Group Size 100 yards
24.5grs 3,159 fps 3.812"
25 grs 3,272 fps 3.682"
25.5 grs 3,346 fps 1.830"
26 grs 3,360 fps 3.256"
26.5grs 3,400 fps 2.907"
27grs 3,460 fps 2.482"
27.5grs 3,489 fps 2.181" Two tiny specks of lead on the dry patch

All of the top charges in the 3 guns was at max case expansion. Temperature was also about 114 degrees when we finished firing the groups.








***************
I went to the range Wednesday to continue the test of the Lee 200gr RN GC in my 1960s era Savage 110 CL in 30-06. The powder is H1000, WLR, sized .309", Hi-Tek Gold 1035. I started at 58 gr and went up a grain at a time to 61 grains. Range was 100 yards, 5 shots.
Here are the results:

#1 58grs, avg. velocity 2,445 fps, Group size 1.602" for 5 shots
#2 59grs, avg. velocity 2,470 fps, group size 1.311" for 5 shots
#3 60grs, avg. velocity 2,510 fps, group size 2.217", one pulled left
#4 61grs, avg. velocity 2,547 fps, group size 2.708"
***************

[HI-TEK]

shiny when first scratched off but dulls quickly...deff nothing like the lead I make mine outta ww an bit of tin just keeps shiny and hardish for ever....
so you saying about speed can you coatings be pushed to 2100fps with no gas check then..i want to shoot 125gn hollow points I cast outta my 357 mag marlin at same speed as jacketed as jacketed are non exsistent these days...


More results; NOTE no gas checks....

165 grain, 309 dia, 308 rifle, maximum load 41 grains ADI powder 2206H , travelling 2650-2750 ft/sec,
20 shots were fired. Only powder residue left barrel was clean. 2 coats of coating.
One coating also gave same results same. No gas checks were used.

125 grain, 316 diameter, 8 grains 2205 powder, travelling at 1200-1300 ft / sec with 2 coats.
310 Cadet rifle. No gas checks. 65grn 309 diameter Marksman fired at 1700ft/sec with 2 coats.
***************

[thespice]

More results; NOTE no gas checks....

165 grain, 309 dia, 308 rifle, maximum load 41 grains ADI powder 2206H , travelling 2650-2750 ft/sec,
20 shots were fired. Only powder residue left barrel was clean. 2 coats of coating.
One coating also gave same results same. No gas checks were used.

125 grain, 316 diameter, 8 grains 2205 powder, travelling at 1200-1300 ft / sec with 2 coats.
310 Cadet rifle. No gas checks. 65grn 309 diameter Marksman fired at 1700ft/sec with 2 coats.
***************

sounds good...

[ioon44]

Those shipping people can be slow, The stuff arrived into us on the 20th last month.
I know there is a back up in the port, and with custom clearances.

"Lemon Pledge"?????:-|:roll::roll::roll:

Mr. Miculek told me to use Lemon Pledge as a sizing lube also, I tried a light mist of it on .40 cal 180gr with 3 coats of HI-TEK Black and the standard star die. Made the sizing really easy and have shot 150 rounds through my Glock, the barrel looked clean like it had J bullets shot out of it.
Don't know if there is a down side to Lemon Pledge but so far so good.
HI-TEK is the best stuff I have used in the last 50 some years of reloading.

[Chunky Monkey]

good to hear - getting some pledge tomorrow to hold me over till i can get some hi tek lube. ahhh lemony fresh boolits?;)

[HI-TEK]

good to hear - getting some pledge tomorrow to hold me over till i can get some hi tek lube. ahhh lemony fresh boolits?;)

Lemon Fresh....a good idea... must keep it mind for next development, so we can have a scented coating lol lol...... and,..... cant forget rainbow effects as well...lol lol.

[HI-TEK]

Mr. Miculek told me to use Lemon Pledge as a sizing lube also, I tried a light mist of it on .40 cal 180gr with 3 coats of HI-TEK Black and the standard star die. Made the sizing really easy and have shot 150 rounds through my Glock, the barrel looked clean like it had
J bullets shot out of it.
Don't know if there is a down side to Lemon Pledge but so far so good.
HI-TEK is the best stuff I have used in the last 50 some years of reloading.

I bet you have seen many changes in those years with reloading stuff. May be you should write a book of your experiences, as I am sure that it will interest many.
I would certainly like to sit down with you to talk about your experiences.
Glad to hear that you are happy with results.
Most unusual way of lubing, but it seems to work...
The only down side, if your coating equipment is cross contaminated with Lemon Pledge.
I dont know if it will affect coating process.

If you consider the end use with sizing, many want harder alloys for various applications.
I have doubts that Lemon Pledge will outperform the Hi-Tek 5000 when trying to size these harder alloys.

[HI-TEK]

good to hear - getting some pledge tomorrow to hold me over till i can get some hi tek lube. ahhh lemony fresh boolits?;)


Had a look at Lemon Pledge Aerosol.
This stuff contains Silicone oil, in solvent carrier with Lemon scent.
horror!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:
You wont be able to stop cross contamination, as Silicone is notorious for contamination by contact transfer.
Bad news for trying to coat projectiles, if the Silicone gets onto things.

[2wheelDuke]

Had a look at Lemon Pledge Aerosol.
This stuff contains Silicone oil, in solvent carrier with Lemon scent.
horror!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:
You wont be able to stop cross contamination, as Silicone is notorious for contamination by contact transfer.
Bad news for trying to coat projectiles, if the Silicone gets onto things.

That's interesting to know. I've read your earlier posts on that. I use silicone spray lube on my duty holster, and store the can in the vault on my patrol vehicle. I hope that doesn't wind up cross contaminating anything of mine. The work stuff doesn't ever go near my casting/coating stuff.

[Chunky Monkey]

wow i think i will hold off on the pledge then.

Question: when i get hi tek lube i will mix 1 part with 20-25 parts acetone (or rubbing alcohol?). then how do u apply it to boolits? spray or just like hi tek coating?

[HI-TEK]

wow i think i will hold off on the pledge then.

Question: when i get hi tek lube i will mix 1 part with 20-25 parts acetone (or rubbing alcohol?). then how do u apply it to boolits? spray or just like hi tek coating?

When you dilute, with chosen diluent, you can apply as spray with normal household garden sprayer, (500ml or smaller, plastic bottle type)
Make sure first, that sprayer will be suitable for Acetone or solvents.
Safest is water as solvent and you can coat and warm dry afterwards without solvents or flame possibility.
Just a hint, if you use Water, add about teaspoon of cloudy Ammonia, to about 1 litre of the water, which to be used as diluent. It will help a lot with wetting, and also helps with polymer suspension stability.
Same amount of Ammonia can be added to denatured alcohol or Acetone.
(I will turn all of you into mad scientists yet...lol...lol...)

[Chunky Monkey]

thanks - just planning this out ahead of time. i think i will use water and a small spray bottle.

question ~ what is cloudy ammonia?

[HI-TEK]

thanks - just planning this out ahead of time. i think i will use water and a small spray bottle.

question ~ what is cloudy ammonia?

It is sold here as Cloudy Ammonia. Normally sold in laundry washing powder/cleaner area in supermarket.
It is water based dilute Ammonia, and makers add a little clouding agent to make it look milky.
Often used in combination with denatured alcohol as a very cheap effective, non smearing window cleaner.

[Chunky Monkey]

thanks

since we are all going to scientists how about some white Hi Tek aprons or lab coats to wear while we coat boolits? :D

[HI-TEK]

thanks

since we are all going to scientists how about some white Hi Tek aprons or lab coats to wear while we coat boolits? :D

You will need official certificate to permit you wearing Lab Coats... it is only for top of the tree scientists.....lol...lol
May be a plastic raincoat will be acceptable without upsetting mad scientists...lol...lol.

[ioon44]

I bet you have seen many changes in those years with reloading stuff. May be you should write a book of your experiences, as I am sure that it will interest many.
I would certainly like to sit down with you to talk about your experiences.
Glad to hear that you are happy with results.
Most unusual way of lubing, but it seems to work...
The only down side, if your coating equipment is cross contaminated with Lemon Pledge.
I don't know if it will affect coating process.

If you consider the end use with sizing, many want harder alloys for various applications.
I have doubts that Lemon Pledge will outperform the Hi-Tek 5000 when trying to size these harder alloys.

I think your experiences would more interesting to talk about than mine, I just don't get to Australia very often last time was in 1970.
I also have doubts that Lemon Pledge will outperform the Hi-Tek 5000, I just don't have any and the Hi-Tek Black coating I am using just won't go through my Star seizer without some lube.
It works in the Magma Lube Master with the short dies but is still easer with a little lube.

Cross contaminated with Lemon Pledge shouldn't be a problem as I size lube & reload in a different building than I coat and bake in.

[HI-TEK]

I think your experiences would more interesting to talk about than mine, I just don't get to Australia very often last time was in 1970.
I also have doubts that Lemon Pledge will outperform the Hi-Tek 5000, I just don't have any and the Hi-Tek Black coating I am using just won't go through my Star seizer without some lube.
It works in the Magma Lube Master with the short dies but is still easer with a little lube.

Cross contaminated with Lemon Pledge shouldn't be a problem as I size lube & reload in a different building than I coat and bake in.

May be it is time for another down under visit.
With coating & lube, you can try the Extreme, or 2-Extreme catalyst with the black coating.
They should help greatly.
They were designed with reducing frictional loads, especially with harder alloys.
Just contact Donnie and see if he can spare a little for you to try as a comparison.

[leadman]

I have used Lemon pledge to lube coated boolits before sizing but now just run them on my RCBS case lubing pad. I can inspect them by rolling them a little at a time and the RCBS case lube dries fast. Think it is a lanolin mixture. No problem picking them up like with the Pledge.
I do want to try some of the Hi-Tek lube so will call Donnie soon.