simple Hi-Tek coating

[BMac]

Thanks for the advice kweidner, ausglock and dystaxia

[Love Life]

For 9mm and 38/357 boolit I bake them for 9 1/2 minutes. For 40's and 45's I bake for 12 1/2 minutes. Light 1st coat and a heavy 2nd coat.

[gunoil]

you people are cooking to long IMO. iam at 8 mins or lower.

[Love Life]

You're cooking too long...

[Ausglock]

...from standing in the sun without a hat.

[HI-TEK]

For 9mm and 38/357 boolit I bake them for 9 1/2 minutes. For 40's and 45's I bake for 12 1/2 minutes. Light 1st coat and a heavy 2nd coat.


Love life & gunoil, you both may be right, but also, it may be considered, the metal loads placed into the oven.
Some folk, I have learnt, try to cook far too much at one time, and the alloy takes quite a long time to come up to temperature, (especially the larger calibers), and, also, if not good air circulation takes place inside oven, due to lack of free air movement space around projectiles.
Over cooked coatings, as long as first coat is well bonded, simply will be much darker.
As long as it works in end use applications, it should not be a problem, unless you really fussy about the colour.
From what I have seen, you all seem to be doing it very well. Good results as well.
As they say, all good.
Thanks all for blogging and providing assistance to each other.

[Moonman]

I'm Baking,
Breville countertop convection oven.
PREHEATED TO,
Mine is now oven set at 410 F, inside the oven thermometer reads 395 F.

Batch is 3 pound load (no matter what caliber or Boolit weight).
FIRST COAT I swirl in a plastic container with JUST UNDER 1/2 teaspoon (2.5 ml)
per HI-TEK (3 pound oven load).
First Coat is usually 5/1/10 Acetone MIX, Regular Catalyst.

SECOND COAT, swirl with 3/4 teaspoon (3.75 ml) of Hi-TEK. (3 # Load).
Second Coat is a 5/1/7 Acetone ratio with 2 EXTREME CATALYST.

BAKE times that I'm now working with, NEW colors from Bayou Bullets,
BRICK RED and GOLD 1035.
38's (mostly 148 & 158 grain) 3 pound oven loads (140 pills),
middle oven shelf, 10 MINUTE BAKE.

45's (generally 230 grain (90 Pills), I haven't done many 200 grain yet)
3 pound oven load, 12 MINUTE BAKE.

I COAT/BAKE/SIZE/COAT/BAKE again.
I've also have COATED AND BAKED TWICE then sized.

Probably next week I'll begin working with 2 new HARDLINE INDUSTRIES
(a new Vendor Sponsor here) NO LUBE GROOVE MOLDS.
115 grain RN for 9 MM and a 45 230 RN for 45's, molds are 4 CAVITY IRON.
Really nice, they have 3 alignment pins also.

I've coated and shot, REGULAR LUBE GROOVES, TUMBLE LUBE GROOVES, and
next NO LUBE GROOVES.

I have some NO LUBE GROOVE pills I purchased from SNS CASTING that
I haven't loaded or tried yet also, they look very nice.

Next weekend I'm showing the product and info to a local group of
S&W people that I meet with occasionally. They're collectors and shooters.

[Ausglock]

Good stuff, Mm.

[gunoil]

Iam pertty'er than you love life. Your burnt! hehehe. Thanks hitek!

[BMac]

Oven question, I'm running red copper, after 10 minutes at 400 (124 gn .356) I can see dark and light beans.
Does a convection oven do the same thing?
Or are all the beans roasted the same?
Thanks

[Moonman]

The fan in the convection oven spreads the heat out more evenly.

Don't crowd your lead too much so heat circulates around your pills.

Nice even baking.

[BMac]

Thanks for the info moonman. Any suggestions on make/model.

[Moonman]

BMac,

I use a BREVILLE BVO800XL, (the SMART OVEN) not cheap but a great oven.

Bed Bath and Beyond $250 List price, I've seen B.B.& B. coupons ON LINE

for $50 off before.

The Breville kinda has heat zones and a pulsating heat.

Works Great, an example of YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Others here have this oven, others make do or make work

even cheapie ovens.

Just in general, I don't usually buy or use cheap tools & equipment.

Old retired Machinist in me I guess.

[BMac]

MM, me too, I've bought things twice to many time. This doesn't seem like a item to scrimp on.

[Love Life]

Iam pertty'er than you love life. Your burnt! hehehe. Thanks hitek!

My boolits aren't burnt. Your face is...HAHA!

[Love Life]

I paid like $30 for my toaster oven and got a 4 year warranty. I have baked a lot of alloy so far.

[Beau Cassidy]

I looked at the Brevelle but was really having a hard time spending that much on it. It sure looked good and I am sure it is but Wal Mart has an equivalent size convection for $99.

[BMac]

Wally world has a oyster XL w/ convection for 79 bucks. Would hate to cheap out and get another oven I can't cook in.

[Moonman]

Beau Cassidy,

Wally World may have an EQUIVALENT SIZED OVEN, but it's not a
Breville "Smart Oven" and does not and will not work as the Breville does.

Love Life makes a cheap oven work, but where he lives he could
probably almost BAKE WITHOUT AN OVEN! LOL.:veryconfu

[Moonman]

One thing about the Breville Oven is that the PAIN is only one time
at the cash register and then disappears as you start working with it.

[Love Life]

Northern Nevada has a rather mild climate.

[Moonman]

Love Life,

Sorry, I thought you lived in Arizona or New Mexico.

[Ausglock]

Buy once. Cry once.

[Moonman]

Ausglock/gunoil,

I think that mixing the HI-TEK coating in a 5 Color/1 REGULAR Catalyst/10 Acetone ratio
for the LIGHT FIRST COAT just may help some people out.
(SHORT 1/2 TEASPOON OR SHORT 2.5 ml) per 3 pounds (1.36kg)
of projectile weight) first coat.

At least until the DRY COATING MIXES hit the USA market in a few months.

For the second coat MIX HI-TEK in a 5 Color/1(EXTREME-2 CATALYST)/7 Acetone ratio
and use 3/4 teaspoon (3.75ml) for the second and generally final coating.
Per 3 pounds of projectiles (1.36 kg).

This seems to be working well for me,
especially with the Breville Convection oven doing the baking.
Oven is set at 410 F (395 F inside oven thermometer reading) or 201.67 C.

I don't need near the number of projectiles that COMPETITIVE SHOOTERS or
COMMERCIAL CASTERS needs require per casting/coating session.

Baking 38 Special/9 MM pills for 10 minutes (I may reduce that time just slightly
on the next batch, just to see results).

45 slugs get a 12 minute bake presently.

I'm presently working with ORIGINAL GOLD, new GOLD 1035,
ORIGINAL DARK GREEN, and the NEW BRICK RED.

Waiting for that "ZOMBIE GREEN" dry mix to hit the USA.

Trevor, did the HI-TEK WIZARD, get you some BLUE powder to work yet?

[Wrbjr]

I am old school. I like my 45-45-10 Xlox.

I like the smell of Xlox in the mornings... and a cup of joe.

I don't mind a little smoke and a little fire from my barrel.

I don't have any leading issues and my barrels are mirror clean.

Having said all that ....I just ordered some GREEN HI-TEK coatings:twisted: you bunch of sick back yard chemical cookers! :twisted: God help me. I have crossed over into the crazy crowd.

Mamma's gonna like her new convection oven, however. I gonna steal the old one.

[gunoil]

Iam lazy and amature, just bought a kahr cm 9, greased the rails and put 400+ mixed (projectiles) hitek thru it.
It is amazing how clean the barrels stay in the Kahr and glocks and lil' TCP 380. Just brush em out light'ly.

I use militec-1 oil and militec-grease, pistols are dry and clean. I only use grease when breakin- in new pistol.

[gunoil]

Wrbjr, glad your here.

[Love Life]

I am old school. I like my 45-45-10 Xlox.

I like the smell of Xlox in the mornings... and a cup of joe.

I don't mind a little smoke and a little fire from my barrel.

I don't have any leading issues and my barrels are mirror clean.

Having said all that ....I just ordered some GREEN HI-TEK coatings:twisted: you bunch of sick back yard chemical cookers! :twisted: God help me. I have crossed over into the crazy crowd.

Mamma's gonna like her new convection oven, however. I gonna steal the old one.

Welcome to the 155 pages of madness. Once you mess up the 1st two batches, you will be a happy camper.

[BMac]

"Cooked" last night, after purchasing a thermometer. My old TO was swinging 50+ degrees (F). Got my coupon and stopping at Bed, B &B to pick up a new 800XL.

[Moonman]

BMac,

I'm sure you will appreciate the Breville, I sure like mine.

My only problem was, I got the oven and found out

about the online $50 Coupon at a later date, UGH!

I'm still a happy camper though, even paying list.

All water over the dam now, I just a castin' n coatin' fool nowdays.

[Ausglock]

Wrbjr.
Mate, welcome to the Jungle.
It really is easy to do.
Just follow the steps and don't shortcut it or cheapskate it and you will be fine.

[BMac]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/u9y3a2ab.jpg
:)

[Moonman]

BMac,

She's a GEM isn't she?
I'm running mine right now.
I have the same inside the oven thermo.
I set my oven at 410 F, oven thermo ends up at 395 F.

I checked my inside thermo against others,
Probe Bar-B-Que, N.O.E. probe also.
All were pretty close temp wise.

[BMac]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/teruruhu.jpg
Moonman what do you think of the first coat?
7/1/9 400 for 10 minutes

[Ausglock]

Now... that looks better... But your ratios are all screwed up.

[HI-TEK]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/teruruhu.jpg
Moonman what do you think of the first coat?
7/1/9 400 for 10 minutes

Thanks for your blog.
The ratio of coating to catalyst is 5 parts of coating to 1 part of catalyst. Not as you have indicated as being 7 to 1, (plus 9 parts of solvent.)

You may find, that the coating may not have cured correctly, and is discovered with solvent test and smash test and sizing test after first coat.
Please do the tests first, on your first coat, and before you apply any more coats.
If first coat is not sticking after bake, it is not advisable to apply a second coat, as it wont fix poor adhesion of first coat.
If first coat is not bonded properly, applying coatings on top of first coat will stick to the first coat, but the whole lot will shred off, when pressure is applied such as sizing.
Please advise on your findings.

[Moonman]

BMac,

Is that a typo (7/1/9)????
I'm using 5/1/10 Acetone on 1st coat, 5/1/7 Actone on the second coat.
Is that RED/Copper color????
If it is I've never used that.

[Ausglock]

Bmac. always....Always 5 parts colour to 1 part Catalyst.
The parts of acetone is up to you.
But 5:1 is required!

[BMac]

My bad, multitasking kills.
I used 5/1/9, used 3 ml for 3 lbs (168) baked at 400.

[BMac]

Sorry for the confusion, hate to waste anyone's time.

[BMac]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/tymeha8u.jpg
Finished product.
I followed Moonman's instructions and baked in my new Breville 800xl. From what I can see, the right mix, the right oven makes all the difference. I think I have good color and a smooth and shiny finish.
I loaded up 100, will test tomorrow at lunch.

[Moonman]

BMac,

I'm doing 5/1/10 first coat (Regular Catalyst used), just short of 2.5ml for 3 pounds of pills.
Second coat 5/1/7 mix. I use Extreme 2 Catalyst in it and use 3.75 ml for 3 pounds.
My oven is set at 410 F (ambient air temp here 55-70 degrees)
if your ambient temp is higher you may have to lower oven temp a bit.

[Moonman]

BMac,

You're startin' to look good buddy.
I told you you the BREVILLE was the BEES KNEES baby!
Nice HUH.

[BMac]

Moon, I didn't setup two mixes, so I split it. This weekend I plan on doing some more testing and following you plan.
I do not have the Extreme 2 catalyst, what would you suggest for a second coat in its absence?

[Moonman]

BMac,

Just use the REGULAR CATALYST for the second coat, 5/1/7 Acetone ratio.

I use the EXTREME 2 because I have it and they say it makes sizing a

little bit easier, I have some that drop large from mold.

I'm presently doing .358 125gr. SWC, .358 158 gr. SWC, .452 230 gr,
.358 148 gr. DEWC & Button-Nosed also.

Next week I start using my 9 MM RN & 45 RN NO LUBE GROOVE MOLDS.
New molds from Hardline Industries, Iron and great looking,
gunoil posted photos of his back a few pages in this thread.

[BMac]

Thanks forthe info. Yeah no lube groove has to be my next move.
I've got an older lee that I have been thinking of modifing.

[Moonman]

BMac,

Try dropping your first coat to 2.5 ml for 3 pounds projectiles.
1/5/10 helps SMOOTH OUT the metallic troublesome coatings,
RED-COPPER from what I see posted.
Then second coat 3.75 ml for 3 pounds of projectiles. (1/5/7 mix here)
REALLY THIN FIRST COAT HELPS ADHESION.
also the 5/1/10 mix helps assure THINNESS.

[Ausglock]

Bmac. looking at your bullets... You might want to lift your alloy casting temp too.
Some of the bullets in the photo shows separation lines in the nose.

[BMac]

Bmac. looking at your bullets... You might want to lift your alloy casting temp too.
Some of the bullets in the photo shows separation lines in the nose.

Trevor, thanks.
I'm sure I could go hotter, I think between the alloy temp and that this is new lee mold, (they are a hard to clean and get broken in) my next batch will be better. This was a small 200 piece run, just so I could try the new mix and oven...
Thanks for looking out for me/us, appreciated.
BMac

[Gateway Bullets]

Bmac

I use a 5-1-7ish mix in the red copper. I tumble around 30-35 pounds at a time and use 1ml per pound. Here are my results.

Bullets with first coat.
103679

Finished bullets before sizing103677

Close up

103678103682

[Moonman]

GMac,

LEE 6 cavity like TO BE RUN HOT AND FAST.
I warm mine on a Hot Plate first and between mold casting switches.

Ausglock (Trevor) says your pills appearance need your ALLOY TEMPERATURE RAISED,
this will also help the MOLD STAY HOTTER.

Don't try to examine the pills, KEEP CASTING.
You can examine and CULL rejects when you take a break.

Wherever you purchased your color, see if they have
HI-TEK MOLD RELEASE (500 PLUS in a spray can).
gunoil recommends this stuff, he says, clean your mold well,
use the 500 Plus ONLY as your lube and release.

You could also order some (2-EXTREME CATALYST) at that time also.
My materials come from DONNIE (swamprat) at BAYOU BULLETS,
I'm sure GATEWAY BULLETS has the materials also,
maybe he'll chime in.

I have some but have not used it as of yet (just received it),
gunoil says after I clean my new HARDLINE INDUSTRIES No Lube Groove Molds.
TO USE THIS STUFF ONLY ON THEM (500 Plus).
He also says this stuff will keep the appearance of your molds like NEW.

The bullets will release, molds will be lubed, and not STAINED or CONTAMINATED
by OILS or WAXES. (on my TO DO LIST for next week).

You might look at the new GOLD 1035 as your next color, looks good. (Glittery).
I'm waiting for the ZOMBIE GREEN dry mix to hit the USA in the future.
I might also try some BLACK to go with NICKEL CASES, for the look, Ya know.

A little practice, THE BREVILLE OVEN, (as you seem to have found out) will
make your Casting and Coating life much more enjoyable.:drinks:

[BMac]

Bmac

I use a 5-1-7ish mix in the red copper. I tumble around 30-35 pounds at a time and use 1ml per pound. Here are my results.

Bullets with first coat.
103679

Finished bullets before sizing103677

Close up

103678103682

Thanks Gateway, much appreciated.
Question are the lower two photos the same batch? The photo on the left look browner and the other more red.

[Moonman]

One looks like RED-COPPER and the other BLACK CHERRY to me.

[Gateway Bullets]

Yes they are the same batch from the same customers box. It's just the Iphone doesn't take that great of pics! The last one is a more accurate picture as it's not as dark

Here is the smash test

103727

[BMac]

LEADING, I am at a loss, I cast, coated and loaded last night 100 rds to test today.
My alloy is straight COWW, with a tested BHN of 11.6 according to the Lee hardness tester (.066 reading from cooled just cast lead).
After following many advice from many of you GREAT guys I am still getting leading.
Casting using a Lee 6 banger 124 .356 with tumble lube grooves, that was throwing .357ish.
1st coat, 3 lbs (168) with 3 ml of 5/1/9 air dried for 15 min, put in a basket and placed on top of the Brev 800xl for 15 minutes to pre warm and finish the drying.
I baked at exactly 10 minutes @ 400 verified with a oven thermometer
Cooled for 20-30 minutes.
2nd coat 3 lbs with 4.5/5 ml of 5/1/9 put in a basket and placed on top of the Brev 800xl for 15 minutes to pre warm and finish the drying.
I baked at exactly 10 minutes @ 400 verified with a oven thermometer
NOT sized because the OD was .356/7, I did not size because my barrel will slug at .355/6.
Cooled and loaded with plenty of bell in the case.

Launcher is a G34 with a Wolf barrel.
Mixed brass
Federal SPP
4.4 gn of Win Autocomp
Hornady dies

Questions:
Would a light load, not a complete puff, but a gamer load (est 925 fps for a 124 9mm) cause leading?
Could it be that I have too much setback and the coating is being sheared?

My next step is to drill out the tumble lube rings out of an old 124 .356 lee mold and see if it.
I am also going to load some with IMR 700x (because that's what I have)

I really want to like this stuff :)
I cannot believe I am having such a hard time, this $his is rocket surgery.

BMac

[Moonman]

BMac,

Some guys pulled their hair out for a few months before THEIR PROCESS WAS OK.

FIRST, Dry to the touch IS NOT DRY, their could be moisture trapped under the coating.

I generally dry overnight, some fellows dry AT LEAST A COUPLE HOURS.

You've slugged your barrel so it looks like SIZE is not your problem.

NEXT, Pull a bullet from a loaded round to make sure that you are BELLING

ENOUGH and not injuring the coating in your loading process.

What TYPE and HOW MUCH CRIMP are you doing???

IF YOU'RE USING A LEE FCD, THAT COULD BE YOUR PROBLEM!

You didn't size, ARE THEY ROUND??? Check with a micrometer.

LEE molds are not exactly THE FINEST OF THE FINE.

Try to shoot something so you can recover the slug to inspect the coating.

After the FIRST BAKE, DID YOU DO AN ACETONE WIPE TEST for the color?

Then the SMASH TEST, so the PILL is as FLAT AS A COIN?

NO COLOR WIPED OFF AND NO FLAKING????

AUSGLOCK, Where are you, GMac needs help.

[Love Life]

Try those boolits in the factory Glock barrel. Make sure your barrel is squeaky clean first, then go shoot. Please report back your findings.

[BMac]

I generally dry overnight, some fellows dry AT LEAST A COUPLE HOURS.

I will do a batch and let them dry overnight

NEXT, Pull a bullet from a loaded round to make sure that you are BELLING
ENOUGH and not injuring the coating in your loading process.

I will pull one, I hate to admit it, but one got by me without a cap, so I’ve got one to pull ;)

What TYPE and HOW MUCH CRIMP are you doing???
IF YOU'RE USING A LEE FCD, THAT COULD BE YOUR PROBLEM!

I am using the Hornady Taper Crimp die, it’s a seater as well as a Taper Crimp Die.
I set it last night to just close the bell and nothing more.

You didn't size, ARE THEY ROUND??? Check with a micrometer.
LEE molds are not exactly THE FINEST OF THE FINE.

True, and I did not size the projectiles, so I should also check this, but my other batches were sized and I thought it might be an undersize issue, so I left them fat.

After the FIRST BAKE, DID YOU DO AN ACETONE WIPE TEST for the color?
I did do the acetone test and they were fine.

Then the SMASH TEST, so the PILL is as FLAT AS A COIN?
I did a smash test, but I did not go to coin flatness, did til ¼” but I will do another.

NO COLOR WIPED OFF AND NO FLAKING????
Correct. I have a Sig in 9mm that I will test with as well, could be the barrel…

Thanks for the help Moonman, I do appreciate it.


--I will also try my factory barrel, and will report.

[Moonman]

GMac,

It's usually BEST "NOT TO SEAT AND CRIMP" in one station.

Do it in separate operations.

[BMac]

Agreed about the seating and crimping in one die, I'm running Hornady dies and the have a bell die, I'm thing on belling on my powder drop and then I'll have room. I run a size/decap, bell, powder, powder check, seat/taper crimp.

MM, I'm going to pull the bullet with a kinetic hammer and see if seating and crimping damaged the coating. I am also going to mic the heck out of everything to see if the taper crimp is sizing me down below .356

Thanks for the assistance.

BMac

[Ausglock]

Seat/ crimp in one die should never have been invented. it causes more problems than it cures.

Always size coated pills. even if you coat once, size and then second coat. I do this for flat base bullets.

The out of round will astound you!

Lonewolf barrels are designed for jacketed ammo. There are a lot of these barrels used here in OZ and most of them have needed the throat and lead-in reaming as it was cutting the coating off the pills. I had one in 357Sig that needed doing. this fixed the leading issue.
I had another on 9mm for a G34 that after 50 rounds would not chamber a round. after inspection, there was shaved lead built-up at the front of the chamber preventing the round from fully seating in the chamber. reamed it and now no worries.

I have never had these problems with Barsto, stormlake barrels, Jarvis.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I'll second the barrel throat for leading issues.
Do you have a picture of the barrel throat?
The Hornady dies are a combo taper into a roll crimp. (I hate these dies, I bought a set for 40 before I knew what I was buying)
It's a fine line between a tape and the start of a roll. It's easy to roll the crimp a little or even just to put too much taper on it. I had this issue with my 40 dies and it was annoying.

I had an issue with a S&W 1911 barrel not having any throat. The rifling just started with an abrupt sharp edge. No matter what I did it shaved the bullet under sized and made it lead.
You might have the same thing going on like AUS said.

[BMac]

Great info, I'm going to take a look at the barrel when I get home.
Thanks everyone

[jimbo1950]

I made the mistake of not sizing when i first started casting as reading the Lee mold instructions it states it it is not necessary in most cases!
I resize after first coat,and you can tell which ones are out easily due to the increased pressure thru the Lee push thru sizer.
Even my best molds which cost 3x the cost of a Lee,throw bullets that must be resized, and some push thru easier that others.
You will love sizing the smooth side bullets without a lube groove! They slide in and out nice and smoothly,and they also coat smooth and evenly.
As far as ovens go, i use a $50 Black and decker convection from wm and it works great but you must have a thermometer inside to control temperature.I have baked at least 50k bullets and no issues!
I coated about 3k today using the 3 lb of bullets and 1ml per lb of 5/1/10 first coat , and 5/1/7 second and third coat and they are the best i have ever made. I was using 5 lb and 7 ml of 5/1/7 and it probably too heavy a coat,and too much load in the oven at one bake.

This is such a great forum as the help you get from fellow casters is amazing! I have been following all of you helping BMAC,and i again learned a few more things that helped me also!
THANKS to all of you!!

[BMac]

Jimbo, thank you and I'll second you on the great forum.
Face it, we are all left brain people, we need to stick together ;)

[Moonman]

Some of the issues to help HOME casters are;

Smaller Batches, I like to use the 3 pound for Oven Load.

Whatever size Boolits you use, just 3 pounds of them total per load.

I try not to OVERTAX the oven with a bigger sized load of projectiles.


Don't coat TOO HEAVILY for the first coat, just "STAIN" a little for color.

I like the 5/1/10 mix for an initial coat, the extra ACETONE will flash off.

I use 2.5 ml for first coat on a 3 pound batch.


Second coat I use a 5/1/7 mix with (2 EXTREME CATALYST) use regular Cat if you don't have.

I use 3.75 ml for second coat on the 3 pound batch.

I do not use a third coating.


I size sometimes between the coatings, sometimes after both coats.

DO NOT SIZE YOUR BOOLITS "BEFORE" COATING.

I did some 148 grain DEWC today at 9.5 minutes and they came out fine.

45 230 grain I presently do 12 Minutes.

Hope the info helps someone.

[Wrbjr]

Being a noob at this, not having gotten my first order of Hi Tek yet... I must ask why not size before coating? Just trying to understand the process.

[HI-TEK]

Being a noob at this, not having gotten my first order of Hi Tek yet... I must ask why not size before coating? Just trying to understand the process.

If you size, you may need some sort of lubricant.
This will interfere with coating adhesion.
As coating bonds strongly to Lead alloys, and self lubricates, and conforms to sizing, it is much more efficient with assisting with sizing process.
With bonded coating, (done to your requirements), you end up with exactly the right diameter required for a specific barrel.

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

Ausglock, the one tester in Australia claims that IF YOU SIZE BEFORE COATING,

it tends to SEAL UP THE PORES in the leads surface and causes adhesion issues with the coating.

[Ausglock]

Yep. That is correct. Do not size before coating......

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,

Ausglock, the one tester in Australia claims that IF YOU SIZE BEFORE COATING,

it tends to SEAL UP THE PORES in the leads surface and causes adhesion issues with the coating.

hmmm.... makes me want to go get out me microscope and take a look see... sounds plausible. I learn something every day. Lead is a complicated metal at times.

[Wrbjr]

Lucky for me I have not sized any of the next batch yet. Waiting on the Green cool-aid.

[BMac]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/u2u4evuz.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/4u3uduje.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/yjyhety2.jpg

Here is the Wolf barrel, do you thing the rifling is too aggressive in the throat?

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

If you're waiting on the ZOMBIE GREEN, it may be a bit yet.

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,

If you're waiting on the ZOMBIE GREEN, it may be a bit yet.

Hmmm... I wasn't even aware of that color. Donnie just said he had green. I guess the regular green is what he is shipping but he really didn't specify. I hope he doesn't wait on some exotic shade for zombies... I need to play chemist.

[Moonman]

Donnie uses DARK GREEN for his Boolits for sale.
I have the Dark Green from him, the product.
ZOMBIE GREEN will be coming to the USA in a DRY POWDER form,
The Color and Catalyst will already be mixed in the powder.
SAFER AND should be less costly to ship.
You will still add your own ACETONE and tumble lube the projectiles.

[BMac]

Hardline Industries mold question.
I'm ordering the 9mm 147 fp, should I order the .356 or .357 I slug out at .356. I'm thinking .357 sized to .356 to true it up.
Thoughts?

[Moonman]

BMac,

Your better off with larger sizes that YOU can SIZE DOWN to what you need.

Some people get sizes to size down to their 38's or 9 MM.

The 2-Extreme Catalyst makes sizing down A PIECE OF CAKE.

[Love Life]

Get a .358 and size to .357. Did you shoot out of the factory barrel yet?

[BMac]

Thanks for the info.
I haven't shot or of the factory barrel yet. I've for a batch drying overnight, I'll bake tomorrow and shoot Saturday.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Throat looks fine in the barrel.
Were you able to pull a bullet from a loaded round to check for crimp issues?

[Beagle333]

ZOMBIE GREEN will be coming to the USA in a DRY POWDER form,

Just how slow can that boat be? :holysheep:popcorn:

[Wrbjr]

Donnie uses DARK GREEN for his Boolits for sale.
I have the Dark Green from him, the product.
ZOMBIE GREEN will be coming to the USA in a DRY POWDER form,
The Color and Catalyst will already be mixed in the powder.
SAFER AND should be less costly to ship.
You will still add your own ACETONE and tumble lube the projectiles.

I see. Dark green is good. Looks like it would be proud looking on Thumler's tumbled brass. When the powder Zombie green gets here... does anybody know what shade it will be?

[Moonman]

Beagle333,

I think container ships from Australia can take months with stops and a
trip through the Panama Canal too.

Then trucking, repackaging, labeling, shipping to buyers.

HI-TEK also had some issues with procuring some materials

and equipment to ramp up the DRY PRODUCT itself.

[Moonman]

Zombie Green I hear is similar to Green in the Hornady ZOMBIE GREEN ads.

[BMac]

Throat looks fine in the barrel.
Were you able to pull a bullet from a loaded round to check for crimp issues?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/ravytedu.jpg
Just pulled one, thanks for the reminder. All I can see is a small amount where the coating is damaged. Tomorrow I'll pull a few more to see if it's a trend.

[Beagle333]

Beagle333,
I think container ships from Australia can take months with stops and a
trip through the Panama Canal too.

I ordered some Brick Red to practice with, til it gets here. :grin:

[Moonman]

Beagle333,
Coated some 148 grain DEWC with BRICK RED today, I'm dialing back
from 10 minute bake, went 9 1/2 and color looks brighter.
I might try some at 9 minutes.
Color should be BRIGHT RED.

[kryogen]

so no powder to canada any time soon?

I hate ES pcing, it's so messy.

[Moonman]

kryogen,

I thought Donnie (swamprat) at Bayou Bullets was doing a Dry Powder
TRIAL SHIPMENT to Canada to see what ISSUES and TIME might be involved.

[Ausglock]

Throat looks fine in the barrel.
Were you able to pull a bullet from a loaded round to check for crimp issues?

I agree. Barrel throat looks OK.

[Ausglock]

I see. Dark green is good. Looks like it would be proud looking on Thumler's tumbled brass. When the powder Zombie green gets here... does anybody know what shade it will be?

The Zombie green is a light, smooth, apple green. But you have to be careful with it. If you use too much it will try and bite you.:veryconfu

[John Argent]

A buddy of mine and I started messing with Hi-tek, I read the 100 plus pages of this thread we went with the Breville 800 and Hi-tek Gold. I have to admit AusGlocks advise on procedure and the Breville Oven made this realy simple first batches worked just fine not visually perfect but passed smash and wipe tests and shot perfect no leading in 9mm and 40s&w. For the heck of it I cast up a dozen lee C309-170-F coated 3 times, sized to 308 with no gas check, and loaded them up in .30-06 under a max charge of imr-3031.When I test fired them out of a savage 110 the barrel had been cleaned before hand after firing all 12 rounds ran a patch down the barrel only thing was a little powder residue no leading, the cast bullets were cast with straight wheel weight and with a max charge of 44 grains ( imr web site 165 gr jacketed at this charge vs 168 lee)should have been about 2685 FPS. As to the accuracy can not tell at this time on the day I fired these in South East Colorado the wind was gusting badly and I could not even keep the rifle on the target, at 100 yards standing it was about a 3 foot grouping. Now I just need a lee 309 sizer to come in and try this again on a good day with gas checks and try for accuracy.

[Ausglock]

Interesting Results, John.
Mate. I'm only too happy to help new coaters.

[bosco555]

Trev, silly question...As you know I also got a Breville oven..just waiting delivery...Perth is not one of the fastest cities...Regarding the colours? I have ordered Hi-Tek black...is there any difference you have noticed with the colours? Is gold better than black?? coverage, etc.?
thanks
bosco

[leadman]

BMac, the barrel looks good, but there might be some lead left on the sides of the lands. I had several customers that had problems with leading and it turned out to be the throats in their barrels.
One barrel had no taper on the ends of the lands, just a straight face. There other had a chamber cut slightly off center so the end of the rifled section at the chamber was thicker on one side.
Try loading a dummy round and chamber it and then inspect it for coating damage. Both of the previous barrels would cut thru the coating.

[Ausglock]

Bosco.
Personally.... I preffer the metallics, Red/copper, gold 1035, And the Non-OZ Kryptonite Green.

Hopefully the Red/gold (Candyapple red) will also be a goer in the DRY-TEK Powder. I'm testing it next week as well as a few other DRY-TEK powders.
Joe said that there are 2 new Blue coating for testing as well.

There seems to be a huge interest in the DRY-TEK, so I have to get testing on them ASAP.

[PAT303]

Trev, silly question...As you know I also got a Breville oven..just waiting delivery...Perth is not one of the fastest cities...Regarding the colours? I have ordered Hi-Tek black...is there any difference you have noticed with the colours? Is gold better than black?? coverage, etc.?
thanks
bosco
Bosco were abouts in Perth are you?. Pat

[Gateway Bullets]

Bosco.
Personally.... I preffer the metallics, Red/copper, gold 1035, And the Non-OZ Kryptonite Green.

Hopefully the Red/gold (Candyapple red) will also be a goer in the DRY-TEK Powder. I'm testing it next week as well as a few other DRY-TEK powders.
Joe said that there are 2 new Blue coating for testing as well.

There seems to be a huge interest in the DRY-TEK, so I have to get testing on them ASAP.

Trev you need to get your rear in gear so I can get my powder!!! Lol

[bosco555]

Bosco were abouts in Perth are you?. Pat

Hey Pat..I'm up NOR..PM me for more...

Thanks Trev...will have to get some of them colours on my next order to Joe....Was just wondering what colour would cover best..

Thanks again
bosco

[BMac]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/y8aretut.jpg
Looking through the Lee hardness test microscope 20x. Looking at a smooth slug I slugged my barrel with. From what I can see is that I may have some flaking at the point where the land carved into to the slug. My mix and bake are correct, so I'm wondering if I have a hygiene issue? Also wondering if I could apply an etcher prior to coating.

Photograph is hard, would anyone else have a Lee microscope wiling to slug and share?

[jimbo1950]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/y8aretut.jpg
Looking through the Lee hardness test microscope 20x. Looking at a smooth slug I slugged my barrel with. From what I can see is that I may have some flaking at the point where the land carved into to the slug. My mix and bake are correct, so I'm wondering if I have a hygiene issue? Also wondering if I could apply an etcher prior




Photograph is hard, would anyone else have a Lee microscope wiling to slug and share?


You do not need to etch/ wash with acetone if they are fresh cast bullets. Are your sizing dies free of old wax or lube??

[BMac]

Jimbo, fresh cast, two costs then sized, so contamination would be very minor.
Question, what do you store your mix in?

[Love Life]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/03/y8aretut.jpg
Looking through the Lee hardness test microscope 20x. Looking at a smooth slug I slugged my barrel with. From what I can see is that I may have some flaking at the point where the land carved into to the slug. My mix and bake are correct, so I'm wondering if I have a hygiene issue? Also wondering if I could apply an etcher prior to coating.

Photograph is hard, would anyone else have a Lee microscope wiling to slug and share?

Look at the fired boolits thread.

[Love Life]

Bosco.
Personally.... I preffer the metallics, Red/copper, gold 1035, And the Non-OZ Kryptonite Green.

Hopefully the Red/gold (Candyapple red) will also be a goer in the DRY-TEK Powder. I'm testing it next week as well as a few other DRY-TEK powders.
Joe said that there are 2 new Blue coating for testing as well.

There seems to be a huge interest in the DRY-TEK, so I have to get testing on them ASAP.

I will be very interested in your findings with the DRY-TEK.

[jimbo1950]

Jimbo, fresh cast, two costs then sized, so contamination would be very minor.
Question, what do you store your mix in?

I use squeeze bottles that are used for ketchup or mustard which i get at walmart, there are clear so you can see if the mix is shaken up and nothing is caked on the bottom.
I only mix 1 batch at a time, so it is fresh mix when coating. 25 ml color/5ml catalyst and 35ml acetone. total of 65 ml which will yeild 21 coats at 3ml/ coat on 3 lbs of cast
boolits.
I let them dry 1 hour in the Florida sun before i shake and bake.

I have had a issue with flaking of the second coat when smashing, but the first coat did not flake , but accept that as there is no exposed lead,and i had no leading in the barrels.
I have fired these bullets in various firearms such as Colt Python, SW 38,Springfield Trophy Match 45,Colt Defender 45, taurus 9mm,Kel tec sub 2000,SW 625 JM 45acp revolver and have had no leading to speak of.All were loaded at target velocities,using
water quenched coww and tin(pewter).
Also cast some 148 dewc,with 20/1 pure lead and tin with no issues.

Do not over think the process, it will drive you nuts.

[BMac]

Jimbo and crew, thank you for answering my many questions. I'm a nerd, research nut and perfectionist in the best way.
Okay, I'm obsessed and this is another way to feed the addiction. :)

[atygrit]

103961
5-1-7 mix
1 ml per pound
1 pound in the oven
200 Celsius for 10 and 12 minutes same results.

I'm getting very, very frustrated with the black Hi-Tech coating. I have been trying to get this to work off and on for a year and have the same results no matter what I change. The bullets load fine and shoot fine, except the coating is coming off in the barrel. I'm not getting leading, just the coating in the barrel, which is a major pain to remove.

This time I'm still getting slight color on the cloth and slight flaking, which I think is from the abrasion of the hammer. The edges of the bullet on the smash test don't appear to flake.

Any suggestions? Could the coating (not mixed) be too old, it is from March 2013 and kept in the original containers in my basement? But, I have been getting the same barrel fouling since i have started testing the coating.

Is black just a pain to work with? Are their better colors?

[Moonman]

atygrit,

I never used BLACK, liked the older GOLD, and it worked well.

I now just received the NEWER GOLD 1035 and BRICK RED.

I have BOOLITS coated with them but not loaded as of yet.

THERE WAS SOME BAD ACETONE IN THE MARKETPLACE IN THE LAST YEAR.

Have you tried more than ONE BRAND/BATCH OF ACETONE?

ACETONE too, not Fingernail Polish remover or any other BS stuff?

HOW do your bullet sizes look compared to slugged barrel or cylinder chamber sizes?

Have you pulled any loaded cartridge bullets and measured its size?

It wasn't swedged down in size any from loading/crimping was it?

HAVE YOU SIZED ANY BEFORE YOU COATED THEM?

Did you cast these boolits YOURSELF, you didn't purchase any from

a caster THAT WERE SIZED, or LUBED and you REMOVED THE LUBE

and tried to coat with HI-TEK?????

HOW ARE YOU CERTIFYING YOUR OVENS ACTUAL TEMPERATURE?

[gunoil]

try thiner, try three coats, 5-1-9@ 375 degree is what i do, But iam a newbie too.

[atygrit]

I'm using Wal-Mart brand acetone.
I don't remember what my barrel slugged at, but I remember it being OK. I pull a bullet after reloading and size it. I don't expect it to be swagged down, I'm using Dillon 9mm dies and I don't use the Lee FCD.

The bullets I'm coating are bullets I cast.

I have tried 5-1-5, 5-1-7, 5-1-10 and all have about the same results. I think the coating would come off more under the 5-1-5 ratio, when I did the wipe test. The end result for all ratios was coating in the barrel.

[Moonman]

atrgrit,

OVEN TEMP, How do you certify the ACTUAL?

[Moonman]

artgrit,

Coating the barrel to me would BE UNCURED COATING,

Chime in Ausglock or gunoil or Love Life, HELP!!!!

[atygrit]

I used the oven as an excuse to build a PID controller. I figured I could use it for lead casting and the oven. But before that I was using an oven thermometer I purchased from Wal-Mart.

Also, I have only sized after applying the coating.

[HI-TEK]

artgrit,

Coating the barrel to me would BE UNCURED COATING,

Chime in Ausglock or gunoil or Love Life, HELP!!!!

Guys, I would like to have a go at helping.
I need clarification with regards to "coating in the barrrel"
My guess at this stage is;
If this residue is dust, or is it bonded inside barrel after shooting.
If it is dust simply shredding off alloy, then it can be a couple of causes.
a. Not dried enough prior to baking
b. Not cured long enough or not cured at correct conditions.
c. Poor quality Acetone containing oily materials.
If coating is sticking/bonding inside barrel, and bonding after shooting,
a. It is not cured, not hot enough during cure, or not cooked long enough at correct cure temperatures.
I will need much more detailed descriptions, of what is actually happening at each stage to correctly try and help with a cure.

[Wrbjr]

My green cool aid was waiting on me from the Fedex man today. Let the games begin.

[atygrit]

103976

This is what the barrel looks like after 50 rounds and running a bore snake through the barrel a few times. I'm not sure if it is "bonding" to the barrel, but it is a royal pain to remove it.

[kryogen]

bad pic cant really tell.

[popper]

Not well cured.

[Ausglock]

What he said. Bake longer and/or hotter

[BMac]

Good news, I think my leading issue maybe solved.
I think its a combination of the Lee .356 rn tumble groove mold and the Wolf barrel. My hypothesis is that the barrel is cutting into the tumble grooves exposing the lead and thusly leading my barrel from mid barrel forward.
To test this I drilled out the grooves on an old mold and sized to .356, coated with 5/1/9 with a ratio of 1 ml per pound, dried overnight and baked at 400 for 10 min.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/04/je9ega6e.jpg
The picture above shows a Lee tumble groove and the drilled out Lee. Both are sized to .356.
In my experience sizing Lee tumble groove projectiles, the sizer makes the best contact at the base. Forward of the base was getting pushed into the rifling, and the coating was being stripped before the projectile started spining.

I've ordered a 147 fp Hardline, this should make life much better.

[leadman]

BMac, I do think the at least some of the leading problems encountered with HT are do to a problem with the barrel. I identified a couple of these and had a couple of customers fire the boolits in another gun and they were fine.
I wonder if fire lapping would help these barrels? Could mix the lapping compound in with the HT coating!

[popper]

The no groove mould should help but I think the coating wasn't completely cured also. The coating will be thinner at the top of those bands, normal liquid action of pulling away from outside corners. I thinkI'm consistent in my coating but one day it's good, next it's slight leading.

[Wrbjr]

How does this coating effect BHN factors when alloying our lead? Is a BHN 8 round more resistant than the same BHN 8 round without the coating? I realize that is very soft... it's just an arbitrary BHN # thrown out there for an example.

[Ausglock]

The rules for BHN still apply the same as for lubed lead. You still need to bullet to deform to fit the bore. The coating stretches with it to give the barrier between lead and steel.

[HI-TEK]

How does this coating effect BHN factors when alloying our lead? Is a BHN 8 round more resistant than the same BHN 8 round without the coating? I realize that is very soft... it's just an arbitrary BHN # thrown out there for an example.

Just wondering what in fact you are wanting to determine.
If you have a 8 HBN alloy, before coating, it is simply a situation to heat that cast alloy for 12 minutes at 200C, and then cool, and determine the HBN hardness.
Then, coat the alloy, and bake, then re do the HBN hardness again, and determine what is the result.
I suppose, that it then becomes a situation, to determine if the coating does have some HBN affect on alloy after final coats are done.
As far as I know, no one has done such tests, and it would be interesting to determine if HBN is affected with softer alloys, by simply coating & baking such alloys.

[BMac]

What does everyone think of water dropping on the last bake?

[Love Life]

Atygrit- Bake longer.

Bmac- Boolit profile and the throat and rifling can make all the difference.

Case in point is my 10mm. It has a rather sharp throat so the sharp should on the RCBS 10mm-200-SWC gets shaved going into the barrel. The NOE 200-WFN has a much gentler crimp "shoulder" and does not get shaved going into the barrel.

The RCBS is more accurate though so I shoot that boolit.

[HI-TEK]

What does everyone think of water dropping on the last bake?

My suggestion is, from same batch, simply drop some into water after bake, and air cool the rest.
Then, compare HBN on both water cooled and air cooled coated projectiles.
It should give you some answers.

[BMac]

HI-TEK, I've got a batch drying tonight that I'll do a test with tomorrow night.
My question was really based upon whether or not it would affect the coating.

[Wrbjr]

The rules for BHN still apply the same as for lubed lead. You still need to bullet to deform to fit the bore. The coating stretches with it to give the barrier between lead and steel.

So for a given really soft lead... say BHN 10... which I load a lot of... the coating will flex as well as a say BHN 15 or 16 lead? As soon as I get an oven operational I will do some testing here.. but until then I have these questions rattling around in me head...

[Wrbjr]

Just wondering what in fact you are wanting to determine.
If you have a 8 HBN alloy, before coating, it is simply a situation to heat that cast alloy for 12 minutes at 200C, and then cool, and determine the HBN hardness.
Then, coat the alloy, and bake, then re do the HBN hardness again, and determine what is the result.
I suppose, that it then becomes a situation, to determine if the coating does have some HBN affect on alloy after final coats are done.
As far as I know, no one has done such tests, and it would be interesting to determine if HBN is affected with softer alloys, by simply coating & baking such alloys.

Actually, I was leaning more towards Ausglocks answer in terms of my thinking... but since you brought it up that is a very interesting question as well.

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK, I've got a batch drying tonight that I'll do a test with tomorrow night.
My question was really based upon whether or not it would affect the coating.

Good question.
I do not really know what will happen.
My guess, that if coating is cured OK and bonded to metal and previous coats, the dropping into water should not have a negative effect.
But again say, I dont really know what will happen, it is a guess.
It is simply an experiment that will satisfy your and others curiosity about this aspect.

[leadman]

I actually repeated the water quenching test on the last coat yesterday. I did it a couple of weeks ago and wanted to see if the results were repeatable.
I air cooled most of the boolits and water quenched the last rack. The air cooled boolits were 18 BHN today and the water quenched were 22 bhn. This was only 1 day for hardening so I think they might still get harder.

I had tried this when I first stated coating boolits but my ovens were not pid controlled and my alloy was much softer. I also think there was no lead shot in the first alloy I coated while this batch does have about 15% lead shot in it. The original alloy did not harden, at least not right away. I found some of my original boolits I coated and they had gained a couple points on the hardness scale in the year or so they have set around.
I'm thinking (dangerous) that the addition of the lead shot to the isotope and coww alloy with some lino added to harden it makes it harden when water quenched much faster.

I think this is worth pursuing as it would save some money for lino or antimony to harden the alloy. So get your water bucket out and drop in some boolits and let us know how it works.

Wrbj, the coating will deform with the lead. I have sized down boolits by up to .004" and they got longer and the coating stayed intact. I think the BHN of the alloy will make no difference as I have done this with linotype to pure lead.

[Wrbjr]

Thanks... that makes sense. I'm gonna do some water quenching as well and see what happens.

[Avenger442]

I'm running some BHN testing as well. My usual alloy is wheel weight plus 2% tin. It averages 13.5 BHN after casting and air cool. Saturday I heat treated 3 lb. mix of .309 and .452 bullets and 3 lb. of .430 bullets. The bullets that I tested to get the 13.5 (3 each of the sizes) were heat treated in the batches. I have not had a chance to re-test them and probably will not this week. Wife having some surgery tomorrow.

Plan is to test; heat treated; test; coat air cool and test after coating. Looking for end BHN of 19. This will give me a bullet that I can use in my 30 cal. rifles for hunting.

This is my fist try at heat treating bullets. I noticed that some of the .452 and .430 developed small bumps on some of the bases. They were standing on their bases in the hardware cloth basket when heated. I had previously checked the oven with a verified thermometer to make sure I didn't exceed 450 F (232 C for our Aussie friends). Anyone know what this is?

Will report back findings on heat treated BHN and BHN after coating and air cool. May even drop some of the test bullets in a bucket of water after coating.

[Ausglock]

Is anyone else getting database error for the forums? I can't get on here from my computers. Only the phone works. Been like this for 2 days.

[HI-TEK]

Is anyone else getting database error for the forums? I can't get on here from my computers. Only the phone works. Been like this for 2 days.

I have had same results.
I get constant Data base error showing up as well and cant log on.

[HI-TEK]

I'm running some BHN testing as well. My usual alloy is wheel weight plus 2% tin. It averages 13.5 BHN after casting and air cool. Saturday I heat treated 3 lb. mix of .309 and .452 bullets and 3 lb. of .430 bullets. The bullets that I tested to get the 13.5 (3 each of the sizes) were heat treated in the batches. I have not had a chance to re-test them and probably will not this week. Wife having some surgery tomorrow.

Plan is to test; heat treated; test; coat air cool and test after coating. Looking for end BHN of 19. This will give me a bullet that I can use in my 30 cal. rifles for hunting.

This is my fist try at heat treating bullets. I noticed that some of the .452 and .430 developed small bumps on some of the bases. They were standing on their bases in the hardware cloth basket when heated. I had previously checked the oven with a verified thermometer to make sure I didn't exceed 450 F (232 C for our Aussie friends). Anyone know what this is?

Will report back findings on heat treated BHN and BHN after coating and air cool. May even drop some of the test bullets in a bucket of water after coating.

Avenger 442
The coatings should not be subjected to 230C (450F).
Why do you want to heat coatings to 450F?

Bumps on bases or any where else with coatings, is normally a sign of thick and or, a non adequately dried coating before baking.
Generally, bumps and blister formations in cured coatings, are trapped vapours, trying to escape through the coating film during bake, which set in hard coating.
Usually it may be more noticeable in first coats.
If after first coat the projectiles can be sized without any additional lube, then, re-coated and baked.
Generally most blisters are removed during sizing and additional coats simply cover up imperfections left by removed blisters.

[Avenger442]

Hi-Tek
Heating the lead alloy that I have to 230 C and then dropping it into some tap water will harden the surface beyond the hardness that it was when cast. Something that we do so we can avoid buying more expensive alloys yet get the surface of the lead to almost that hardness. Later when you heat the lead again while apply the coating it removes some of the hardness.

I didn't do a good job of explaining that the bumps are on the lead itself. Something that happened when I heat treated them. They don't have any coating on them yet.

Plan to follow Ausglocks previous post, I think it was way back at 30 something, when applying the coating.

[bosco555]

Is anyone else getting database error for the forums? I can't get on here from my computers. Only the phone works. Been like this for 2 days.

Same here, just refresh the page...but it looks like they're working on it!!! Computers are fine when they work...I know!!! lol...:?

[BMac]

Baking baskets: Who likes there’s and is willing to post a picture?

I made a few out of 1/4" galvanized hardware cloth to fit in the Breville approx 12x12 and with 5 lbs of projectiles its a little flimsy.

[ChaplainJohn]

Baking baskets: Who likes there’s and is willing to post a picture?

I made a few out of 1/4" galvanized hardware cloth to fit in the Breville approx 12x12 and with 5 lbs of projectiles its a little flimsy.


I'm new to this and am just setting up to coat and bake. What i have started has a 1" sheet metal strip bent 90 degrees lengthwise trimmed and bent on each end so that they can be formed and riveted to make outer frame with 1/4" hardware cloth to fill the bottom. I went to the local welding shop and got the strips cut from scraps for a small donation to the Christmas party fund. Hope this idea helps sorry no pix yet baskets are still in process.

[Rompin Ruger]

Baking baskets: Who likes there’s and is willing to post a picture?

I made a few out of 1/4" galvanized hardware cloth to fit in the Breville approx 12x12 and with 5 lbs of projectiles its a little flimsy.

Didn't get started yet, but I'm going to take regular 1/8" quadrile Galvanized wire mesh and form in with lips using the provided "rack" that came with the oven... that should give me strength. The drying cloth will be simply screwed or mounted to some firing strips and made slightly larger. If I make the oven rack wire mesh to fit ONTO the rack, I can switch out the racks with lips all around and put in another while one is cooling ... once I've got the technique down, know my coating is adhering, survives the wipe and smash test, etc, etc.

I doubt I'll cast more than a few 100 at a time, not like Trevor...

After shooting 290's in the .45 colt in the Ruger today, and beating the tar outa my "finger-finger" knuckle, I know once I have a suitable load worked up, I'm NOT going to shoot most off the bench ---alas, but under quasi off-hand hunting conditions/poses, not off sandbags! :shock:

[Moonman]

Rompin Ruger,

You want to try that in English?

[Wrbjr]

I have made a screen for my oven, acquired Acetone, and I have plastic bottles to put the cool aid in... only thing I need besides the oven to replace mamma's oven that I shall steal is the tiny little measuring cups or syringes you guys have mentioned for doling out the juice... where are they to be found? Any common places... I have not seen much at the local wallyworld...

I put a thermometer in this lil convection oven and it is capable of 410 F. So I should be able to get the pills up to speed... is the temp the main thing or is there a time limit to get them to the 375 F? I know most say 8-10 min... but what if they are not quite up to temp after 10?

[Ausglock]

If 10 minutes is not enough, go to 12. But always keep the temp at 200 Deg C.

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

Is your oven SUBJECT TO WIDE TEMP SWINGS?
You can set your TEMP and VARY YOUR TIME according
to what works with your set-up.

The temp has to be Hot enough and long enough to SET OFF THE CATALYST.
HI-TEK Joe says cooking longer IF ENOUGH TEMP IS REACHED, will only darken the color
and not ruin the coating.

BAKING TIMES RUN 10-12 MINUTES.

[BMac]

Rompin Ruger,

You want to try that in English?

Auto correct maybe, ;)

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,

Is your oven SUBJECT TO WIDE TEMP SWINGS?
You can set your TEMP and VARY YOUR TIME according
to what works with your set-up.



The temp has to be Hot enough and long enough to SET OFF THE CATALYST.
HI-TEK Joe says cooking longer IF ENOUGH TEMP IS REACHED, will only darken the color
and not ruin the coating.

BAKING TIMES RUN 10-12 MINUTES.

Not sure about the swings in temp... but if I cook two large chicken breasts on bake with the temp knob set to wide open... it will only achieve 330F in the pan where the thermometer lays with the birds. I suspect under the pan it is hotter... but the oven has two heat strips above and two below. I did a test with the screen set in the open wire tray and it hit 410-415F. Of course there was nothing in there. With a thermometer I will be able to monitor it and if I have to cook a tad longer I can deal with Forest Green lead. A much richer and vibrant color for shooting anyway... to keep those pesky enviro's away.

[Moonman]

The ALLOY will act as a HEAT SINK drawing your heat.

Many problems arise from CHEAP ovens that CAN'T DO THE JOB.

Some folks have had success with cheap ovens, others just HEADACHES AFTER HEADACHES.

[Ausglock]

Or, you could place clay paver blocks in your oven to act like heat banks. Gemlin does this with his oven. I have found no need for them.
Just do not try to bake too many bullets at once.
My oven will happily do 250 to 300 9mm bullets at a time. 200deg C for 12 minutes. or 200 9mm bullets at 200degC for 10 minutes. Colour is the same between batches.

[Wrbjr]

I plan on about 100 .40 at a time... or 3 lbs or less. So I should be okay...

[Ausglock]

Well. Tested the new DRY-TEK Black last night.
Brilliant results.
2KG of bullets with 3mls of coating first coat baked at 200 Deg C for 12 minutes.
second coat 5mls.

perfect shiny, smooth and black as a black cat's ****. Wipe and smash perfect.

Now to test the Zombie Green in the DRY-TEK.

All you blokes waiting for the DRY-TEK Powder. It is bloody great. Wait til you try it........

[BMac]

BHN results:
Both test subject were cast a week ago, and coated 4 days ago with some being air cooled and some being water after the last bake (400 F for 11 minutes) quenched with ice water. Both are 100% COWW.
So, my test results, using the Lee hardness tester, the air cooled has a bhn of 9.8-10.4 and the water dropped had a bhn of 15.4-16.6.
On the high side, that's a 50% increase in bhn.
Might be worth the effort.

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

Good deal, get those tests done, get the production run, and
on the ships or aircraft ASAP.

We're waiting Mate!

[Michael J. Spangler]

Recovered a handful of bullets from the range last night.
Even the little splattered coins left over from shooting the steel gong had coating left on the bases.

This stuff is awesome. I'm dying for some dry tek

[BMac]

Michael, could you post some photos?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Typical wadcutter out of the berm

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Grips/1264B8DB-DD00-4A81-818C-EB8C4D364308_zpsks3szg3d.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Grips/1264B8DB-DD00-4A81-818C-EB8C4D364308_zpsks3szg3d.jpg.html)

Wadcutter that hit a rock just right.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Grips/CB7DC7C9-2C8A-450C-BE20-A123B4E7492F_zps3auaanbe.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Grips/CB7DC7C9-2C8A-450C-BE20-A123B4E7492F_zps3auaanbe.jpg.html)

MP 454200 HP
That did the same thing.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll105/MJSpangler/Grips/280A74DA-EA2A-4441-9E4C-D876EAD0090D_zpsnomccusf.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/user/MJSpangler/media/Grips/280A74DA-EA2A-4441-9E4C-D876EAD0090D_zpsnomccusf.jpg.html)

Even with this extreme expansion the coating stays on and the barrels are always clean.

[BMac]

Michael thanks for the pictures, looks real good.

Just got my setup looking organized.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/10/bebevajy.jpg

Now if the man in brown would just show up with my new mold I could get to business.

[gunoil]

Can ya shoot hitek in ak? Anybody!

[farmerjim]

Can ya shoot hitek in ak? Anybody!

No problem shooting Hi-Tek in Alaska.

[Moonman]

BMac,

Nice looking set-up.

[Avenger442]

Guys one caution, when using brick/paver in the oven as a heat sink, make sure all of the moisture has been cooked out of the masonry before putting coated bullets in to cook. This brick/paver in the oven does help. I have a $5 convection oven from a yard sale that would not maintain a tight temperature range. Placed a solid brick in the bottom and it helped a lot. Only thing is it had been sitting outside for about five years and had absorbed a lot of moisture. Steamed up the whole room.
One other thing, all of the ovens I have seen have a small gap around the door. If you seal this it helps maintain temperature.

[BMac]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/12/vabe2ume.jpg
147 tc, 3 coats.

[Liberty'sSon]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/12/vabe2ume.jpg
147 tc, 3 coats.

Bmac, is that from the new Hardline Industries mold?

[BMac]

Liberty, yes it is a Hardline Industries mold. The mold is a thing of beauty, it closes like a bank vault. I've been casting frosties, because I think it coats better and and with the HT it doesn't show so....
I'm going to order the 125 rn in .357 tomorrow.

[Silver-Silver]

I need help. I have been trying different ratios, temperature, time and I can't get this coating to work how it is supposed to.

Oven is the Breville Smart Oven. Cooked on the middle rack with the convection fan turned on.
http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-r.html

Temperature was 190C, but I have increased it to 210C with no improvements
Time has moved from 8 to 13 minutes and everything in between.

Mix Ratio 5 parts color 1 part catalyst 7 parts acetone (Hi Tek liquid Black)
1ml of mixed coating per 1Lb of boolits. I have been doing batches of 1-3 pounds to not overload the oven

Mold is Lee 125 RNFP 125 grain traditional lube grove not micro groves. I have also used a saeco 147 round nose with the same terrible results.
Gun is a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm Pro and a Glock 17 with factory barrel, both foul the barrel
Boolit is sized to .357 in a Lathesmith die on a Star Sizer, the glock slugs at .356 inches
Powder used is Unique at somewhere around 4.2 to 4.5 grains (I don't have my load data in front of me) OAL is 1.050 inches
Velocity is 1050 FPS on the M&P. Just slightly over minimum power factor for games this is a measured velocity not guess.
Alloy is Clip on Wheel Weights with Stick on weights removed. Water quenched when cast and quenched again on the last removal of the oven on coating #2. Measured hardness on a Cabine Tree gauge of the boolits is a Brinell hardness of between 10 and 11 after they are water quenched when they are coated. (just prior to being loaded up)

Every smash/acetone test is a Pass/Pass, however it always fouls the barrel within 50 rounds. One interesting thing I have found is the easiest way to clean the barrel is to run 100 powder coated bullets down the barrel and the fouling is gone and the barrel is clean again. I have read every post on this thread, and still can't get it to work. I have time/temperature graphs and have detailed notes on everything, but I always have bad fouling. By fouling I mean the coating is coming off the bullet and being deposited on the barrel. The NMP that HiTek Joe recommends removes it. This is not lead deposits or powder residue. I have only used these two guns for now, I don't want to have to clean all of my barrels trying to remove the residue.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I am determined to get good and clean barrels after shooting these things.

[Moonman]

WildcatBrass,

What firearm are we speaking of, What is the projectiles VELOCITY,
and What is the BORE or CYLINDER DIAMETER?

We aren't speaking of RIFLE PROJECTILES are we?

[BMac]

WildcatBrass,

What firearm are we speaking of, What is the projectiles VELOCITY,
and What is the BORE or CYLINDER DIAMETER?

We aren't speaking of RIFLE PROJECTILES are we?


I would also ask,
1) When you say fouling, are you meaning leading, or just residue from the coating/powder etc?
2 ) Have you slugged your barrel, if so what are is the size and do the outer wall of the projectile smooth like that touched in the grooves?
If you haven't slugged your barrel you really need to.
3) What is the projectile and mold you are using? and what are you sizing them to?
4) What is the barrel you are launching them from?
5) Is this an issue with all guns or one in particular?
6) Load data, all the details, powder, oal, crimp etc?
7) have you pulled a projectile to see if the seating / crimp damaged the coating?
8) Casting material, COWW, range scrap and etc...

As you've read, I have had a hard time with the coating while shooting a Wolf barrel and still have some small issue, but it works in my factory Glock barrel 100% and my Sig and my 1911s, so I feel your pain.

-BMac

[Silver-Silver]

WildcatBrass,

What firearm are we speaking of, What is the projectiles VELOCITY,
and What is the BORE or CYLINDER DIAMETER?

We aren't speaking of RIFLE PROJECTILES are we?

Moonman,
Excelent questions...
I am going to update the original post so it is all together

[Silver-Silver]

I would also ask,

-BMac

BMac,
I also answered some of your questions in the original post. I just think it will be easier to trouble shoot if all my info in in one spot rather than spread out over 100 pages. I did forget to mention, very slight crimp, almost non existent crimp (just remove the bell) crimp die is a Dillon. I have shot about 20K of cast boolits through the Glock and around 2K through the M&P with no issues when using Carnuba Red, I have casting and sizing down to a science. When I pull a bullet, there is no coating damage.

Thanks for the questions, It means you are thinking of the problem.

I have tried so many times, the only thing I can think of is the importer didn't mix up the batch well enough when they shipped it out in smaller batches. I am not saying this is the reason, just a guess because I feel like I have tried everything else. This Hi Tek coating is probably from the first batch imported into the US. It has always been keept in my climate controlled basement sealed up and a fresh batch is mixed every time I give the coating a new try.

Thanks,
Steve

[BMac]

I need help. I have been trying different ratios, temperature, time and I can't get this coating to work how it is supposed to.

Oven is the Breville Smart Oven. Cooked on the middle rack with the convection fan turned on.
http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-oven-r.html

Temperature was 190C, but I have increased it to 210C with no improvements
Time has moved from 8 to 13 minutes and everything in between.

Mix Ratio 5 parts color 1 part catalyst 7 parts acetone (Hi Tek liquid Black)
1ml of mixed coating per 1Lb of boolits. I have been doing batches of 1-3 pounds to not overload the oven

Mold is Lee 125 RNFP 125 grain traditional lube grove not micro groves. I have also used a saeco 147 round nose with the same terrible results.
Gun is a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm Pro and a Glock 17 with factory barrel, both foul the barrel
Boolit is sized to .357 in a Lathesmith die on a Star Sizer, the glock slugs at .356 inches
Powder used is Unique at somewhere around 4.2 to 4.5 grains (I don't have my load data in front of me) OAL is 1.050 inches
Velocity is 1050 FPS on the M&P. Just slightly over minimum power factor for games this is a measured velocity not guess.
Alloy is Clip on Wheel Weights with Stick on weights removed. Water quenched when cast and quenched again on the last removal of the oven on coating #2. Measured hardness on a Cabine Tree gauge of the boolits is a Brinell hardness of between 10 and 11 after they are water quenched when they are coated. (just prior to being loaded up)

Every smash/acetone test is a Pass/Pass, however it always fouls the barrel within 50 rounds. One interesting thing I have found is the easiest way to clean the barrel is to run 100 powder coated bullets down the barrel and the fouling is gone and the barrel is clean again. I have read every post on this thread, and still can't get it to work. I have time/temperature graphs and have detailed notes on everything, but I always have bad fouling. By fouling I mean the coating is coming off the bullet and being deposited on the barrel. The NMP that HiTek Joe recommends removes it. This is not lead deposits or powder residue. I have only used these two guns for now, I don't want to have to clean all of my barrels trying to remove the residue.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I am determined to get good and clean barrels after shooting these things.

1.050 is a little short for a 9mm? I typically go 1.12/3 with a lee, and 1.15 with a 147.
Also, you need to pull a bullet, maybe do 10 to see what the coating is doing under the brass, also check you diameter again to see if you are swaging the bullet down during seating / crimping.
I did have an issue where I am using a seating / crimp die (Hornady) and it was crimping while the seating was going on and it was scraping the coating.
NOW, I use a little JPW or pledge on my projectiles before seating and it works like a charm. I do a good bell of he case mouth, and a very light crimp to and od of .382.

Also, I use a metallic Red Copper, so I mix @ 5/1/9 and use 1ml (or less) per lb, I shake with the lid on for the first 15-20 seconds to get a good coat before the acetone starts to evaporate off and thicken.


BMac

[Ausglock]

Try it again without the quench at the end.
Also. make really really sure that the first coated bullets are left for long enough to "air dry" prior to baking.

EG: temp of bullets prior to coating = 17Deg C
Temp after coating = 15Deg C
Temp of coated bullets 1/2 hr after coating = 17Deg C
warm bullets before placing in pre-heated oven = 27Deg C

See how the coating cooled the bullets? This will cause coating fail due to moisture (not water) trapped between the bullet and the coating boiling off when baked.

[Silver-Silver]

1.050 is a little short for a 9mm? I typically go 1.12/3 with a lee, and 1.15 with a 147.
BMac

1.050 is the longest it can be to chamber in my CZ-75B. It is technically a 38 special bullet that works great in a 9mm if you search castboolits you will find lots of threads on using the mold for 9mm. It is crimped right at the end of the crimp grove on the boolit.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/916523/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-358-125-rf-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-125-grain-flat-nose?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I just pulled 5 cartridges and the diameter of the bullet still looks good at .357, coating is intact. I seat on one die and crimp on another process. It is not the seat/crimp type of die. So you don't have to bell your case mouth as much try the Mr.Bullet Feeder expanding die, it works fantastic with cast boolits because it expands the case and bells the mouth.

I really really want to try Red Copper, but I promised myself I will not buy more until I can get this to work. Red Copper was not available in the US when I purchased my coating. Red Copper and the Hi Tek bullet mold lube are on my want/wish list.

-Steve

[Silver-Silver]

Try it again without the quench at the end.
Also. make really really sure that the first coated bullets are left for long enough to "air dry" prior to baking.

Trevor,
I just tried to water quench on this last batch, normally I don't water quench after coating. It does retain more hardness than not water quenching if anyone is having issues with boolits being too soft give it a try and do some experimenting.

I set the drying rack above a de-humidifier so warm dry air is flowing over the drying rack. It works great if anyone is having moisture problems. I am NOT getting any bubbles or signs of moisture/water/acetone trapped in the coating. The coating looks black as can be at 3 coats. When I do 2 coats it is not completely opaque but still covered.

I was just reading through your other thread on tips/suggestions and I forgot to mention I do have 2 bullets in the color and catalyst to help mixing. I feel like I have done everything right, with no shortcuts and I am still having issues. The humidity is at a controlled 50%, ambient air temperature is 70deg F

I have thought about using different Acetone after there was some concern of poor quality acetone. But the batches of coating pass the Smash/Acetone test. And I am not having any moisture related signs on the coating.

One more thing, the bullets are cast by me, with no oil from my hands/skin getting on the bullets. Casting is done hot to get frosty bullets and not sized prior to coating.

-Steve

[Love Life]

Wildcatbrass- How is your throat in the pistol? If it is sharp and abrupt it will shave the boolit as it fires. I use red copper and see the same thing in the 10mm using the RCBS 10mm-200-SWC with a rather abrupt shoulder. Using the NOE WFN I see nothing in the barrel but magic.

Have you recovered some boolits?

[Ausglock]

Recovered bullets photos would be good.
Have you fire bullets with 2 coats only?

[Silver-Silver]

Picture attached.
104811
The coating looks more brown in the picture than it does in person. For this batch I didn't pour out quick enough when still tumbling so they are a little rougher than normal. If I pour 20 seconds sooner they are quite even as the acetone has not all evaporated.

Bullet on your left is uncoated
#2 is coated but not cooked
#3 has 1 coat and cooked
#4 is coated 2nd time but not cooked
#5 is coated 2nd time and cooked
#6 in brass case is coated and cooked 3 times (different batch)

I haven't recovered any bullets because I shoot at an indoor range and can't recover my bullets.

[Love Life]

How is the throat?

[Silver-Silver]

How is the throat?

I clean my barrels often, but I don't admire them that often. I just realized Glocks have pretty awesome barrels. It is like a mirror inside, everything smooth and great. The M&P has nice ramped rifling, so I don't think the throat or rifling is causing my issues because on both barrels they look good.

The residue or fouling starts about half way down the barrel and gets worse the further you go to the muzzle. It seems to foul the groves bad and the lands not at all.

Everyone has been helping so much, I figured I had to do my part so I just got back from getting new Acetone from the store. I am willing to try anything. Fresh batch of Hi-Tek is in the works.

-Steve

[HI-TEK]

Picture attached.
104811
The coating looks more brown in the picture than it does in person. For this batch I didn't pour out quick enough when still tumbling so they are a little rougher than normal. If I pour 20 seconds sooner they are quite even as the acetone has not all evaporated.

Bullet on your left is uncoated
#2 is coated but not cooked
#3 has 1 coat and cooked
#4 is coated 2nd time but not cooked
#5 is coated 2nd time and cooked
#6 in brass case is coated and cooked 3 times (different batch)

I haven't recovered any bullets because I shoot at an indoor range and can't recover my bullets.

From pictures, it seems to me, that coating has not been mixed enough, and, possibly over baked as it seems Brown and it should be much Blacker in tint.
After two coats baked, it should be Black and your colour after 3 coats is still Brown looking.
Where did you get the coating, and, how long ago did you buy?
Have you asked supplier for assistance?
I note, that you mentioned, that you cleaned out the barrel with Powder coated alloy.
That is not surprising at all.
It is quite possible that some Powder coatings contain quite abrasive components, so they would "polish" the bore.
Depending on alloy of bore, you would also be polishing away metal from your bore.
I dont know if that is such a good thing.
Also, you mentioned, that there is build up inside barrel.
Have you examined the residues?
Was it baked on coating or Lead deposits or both?

With regards to coating techniques, from what I can understand from your description, you seem to be tumbling far too long, with intent to "dry off" Acetone.
Is this correct?
If possible, please take photos of mixtures of coating Catalyst and solvent, straight after mixing well, then after say 15-20 seconds.
I would really like to see what happens.
After mixing, how long do you store catalysed mixture before coating?
The Black coating is possibly one of the easiest to use.
It is very strange results you are getting.

[Ausglock]

OK. that bullet is a royal Pain in the ****. I have had no luck with it in my guns. It has far too little bearing surface.
I have only had it work in low velocity 38 special loads. anything over about 700fps and it is inaccurate and leads. The coating and lead gets stripped off by the rifling.
Try a different bullet. I use the Lee 120Con and the 124RN. Their 158gn RNFP works fine.

[popper]

Don't WD after casting. It does help to WD after the bake for 9mm, 231 gives me better results than unique or WST in 9mm. I use the old dark green if you push it hard, you get leading at the muzzle end.

[Liberty'sSon]

I'm with Ausglock, try a different bullet.

[220]

WildcatBrass

Have you verified your oven temp, I know the breville is a top unit, I use one, but all manufacturers make the odd lemon, I would be verifying the oven temp matches the display readout its possible you aren't reaching the required temp to properly cure the coating.

[kweidner]

Wildcat. I fought the black on lower antimony stuff forever. Do you have a way to increase BHN? The alloy is too soft in my opinion. COWW is fine for 45 acp, .38 etc. I ran into the same problems and now run 92-6-2 exclusivley for 9 and 40. Get an ingot of superhard and add 2lb 4oz to 20# as well as 8oz tin. Your problems will go away. That little oven is awesome it really shines at the 5lb mark. Do 5lbs and 1tsp per 5lbs an the first coat and 1.5 tsp on the last 2. Black will work. Set it at 370 on cookie function, convection and frozen. As oven preheats set rack of boolits on top to pre-warm. That 5lb takes 12 minutes at 370 in both my ovens. (breville). If you need a chunk of superhard to try PM me.

[Ausglock]

The new Hardline 45 mold arrived today.

Stripped it and machined the side of the mold to allow a Lee sprue plate lever to be attached.
Wiped it down with paper towel and sprayed it with HI-TEK super 500 mold release. no de-greasing or washing etc etc.
Per-heated it on the small hotplate for 5 minutes.
First bullets out were keepers.
The results.
104847

104848

104849

104850

104846
Now to decide If I Kryptonite Green them or Candy Apple them....

[jakec]

The new Hardline 45 mold arrived today.

Stripped it and machined the side of the mold to allow a Lee sprue plate lever to be attached.
Wiped it down with paper towel and sprayed it with HI-TEK super 500 mold release. no de-greasing or washing etc etc.
Per-heated it on the small hotplate for 5 minutes.
First bullets out were keepers.
The results.
104847

104848

104849

104850

104846
Now to decide If I Kryptonite Green them or Candy Apple them....

dangit ausglock your gonna make me have to spend more money!! thats a sweet mold! i like the lee spru plate lever add too. ive got a mold or 2 im gonna do that to. thanks for the idea!

[Moonman]

Ausglock,

You didn't CLEAN the molds AT ALL, Just wiped down, 500 Sprayed, Hot Plate warm-up and GO????

[Ausglock]

No worries, Jake.
Was easy to do.
the centre for the hole in the sprue plate is 7mm in from the new machined mold side and 7mm from the mold body. hole is 1/4".

[Ausglock]

Ausglock,

You didn't CLEAN the molds AT ALL, Just wiped down, 500 Sprayed, Hot Plate warm-up and GO????

Yes sir.

[jakec]

No worries, Jake.
Was easy to do.
the centre for the hole in the sprue plate is 7mm in from the new machined mold side and 7mm from the mold body. hole is 1/4".

thank you sir.

[Silver-Silver]

From pictures, it seems to me, that coating has not been mixed enough, and, possibly over baked as it seems Brown and it should be much Blacker in tint.
The pictures show it as brown, but it isnt nearly as brown as they show. The coating is dark black with just a slight tint of almost gold and not brown as the pictures show.

Where did you get the coating, and, how long ago did you buy?
I purchased the coating from Donnie at Bayou. The coating is one of the first batches to come into the United States, so it is "old" but I have had issues since the first day. The un-mixed coating has always been stored in a climate controlled environment.

Have you examined the residues?
Was it baked on coating or Lead deposits or both?
I have examined it, the residue is thick dried coating, with no signs of lead mixed in

With regards to coating techniques, from what I can understand from your description, you seem to be tumbling far too long, with intent to "dry off" Acetone. Is this correct?
I am not trying to dry the bullets in my tumbling container. With the smaller batches I have been running (1 LB) the coating dries very quick in the somewhat large container 16 oz Cool Whip plastic container. When I do batches of 3 lb everything is much more forgiving, but that means more smelting of coated bullets for me. I am pouring when there is still wet mixture in the bottom of the mixing container.

If possible, please take photos of mixtures of coating Catalyst and solvent, straight after mixing well, then after say 15-20 seconds. I would really like to see what happens.
I use an opaque container to mix, I use syringes to measure the amounts and put them into a opaque container to dispense. If you think this could be the cause of my issues, let me know and I will buy a small glass jar. I am willing to try lots of things to get this to work.

After mixing, how long do you store catalysed mixture before coating?
I mix up only what I plan on using to coat 1 or two batches. I will keep the mixture overnight and use on the second day but no longer.


OK. that bullet is a royal Pain in the ****. Try a different bullet.
I cast up some of the Saeco RN 147 BB and they are getting coated as I type.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140447/saeco-3-cavity-bullet-mold-928-9mm-356-diameter-145-grain-round-nose-bevel-base


Don't WD after casting. It does help to WD after the bake for 9mm, 231 gives me better results than unique or WST in 9mm. I use the old dark green if you push it hard, you get leading at the muzzle end.
I had some 231 and gave it to a friend on the other side of the state. I will look for some again next time I am out. That is interesting about the WD after coating but not casting. For now I am placing the WD on hold and trying to get back to the basics. Lots of guys are having success without it so I am removing as many variables as I can.


Have you verified your oven temp
I have and found for the first coating is 10 deg F low while the second batch is right on. It takes some time for some reason. I have time/temperature graphs showing exactly what the oven is doing and how hot it gets but I don't think it would help to post them. I use a digital thermometer that I use with NOE molds to verify casting mold temperature.

I will post some pictures of the new bullets 147 grain when they are done. The first coat went on more even for some reason.

Thanks again everyone for the suggestions.
-Steve

[Wrbjr]

Ok... I have my oven ready finally. I would like some help in the mixtures... I plan on using 5-1-7 to start with and will do about 3lbs to start. Doing the green.

How does this portion out using teaspoons and such for 3 lbs?

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

You can use teaspoons or gallon jugs, the ratios are what counts.
If you want 5-1-7 ratio, use 5 teaspoons Color, 1 teaspoon for Catalyst, 7 teaspoons Acetone.

I now generally use a 5/1/10 mix for the FIRST COAT to assure a VERY LIGHT FIRST COAT.
I put 3 pounds of projectiles into an 8 OUNCE COOL-WHIP CONTAINER,
add 1/4 teaspoon (1.2 ml) of mixed coating, swirl, I dry overnight, BAKE.

SECOND COAT I use a 5/1/7 ratio, and use 1/2 teaspoon (2.5 ml) of coating for 3 pounds.
Dry, Bake, Size.

I initially used 3 thermometers, 1 oven, 1 N.O.E. electronic (came with his mold),
my electronic Bar-B-Que, and the BREVILLE OVENS SETTING to check oven.

All read within 15 degrees or so. Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN is nice.

Set your oven so it reaches the Catalyst set-off temp for sure, mine I set at 410 F as my garage
was colder, I may reduce that as Summer temps come.

DO NOT constantly CHANGE THE TEMP, Vary the TIME.

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,

You can use teaspoons or gallon jugs, the ratios are what counts.
If you want 5-1-7 ratio, use 5 teaspoons Color, 1 teaspoon for Catalyst, 7 teaspoons Acetone.

I now generally use a 5/1/10 mix for the FIRST COAT to assure a VERY LIGHT FIRST COAT.
I put 3 pounds of projectiles into an 8 OUNCE COOL-WHIP CONTAINER,
add 1/4 teaspoon (1.2 ml) of mixed coating, swirl, I dry overnight, BAKE.

SECOND COAT I use a 5/1/7 ratio, and use 1/2 teaspoon (2.5 ml) of coating for 3 pounds.
Dry, Bake, Size.

I initially used 3 thermometers, 1 oven, 1 N.O.E. electronic (came with his mold),
my electronic Bar-B-Que, and the BREVILLE OVENS SETTING to check oven.

All read within 15 degrees or so. Breville SMART CONVECTION OVEN is nice.

Set your oven so it reaches the Catalyst set-off temp for sure, mine I set at 410 F as my garage
was colder, I may reduce that as Summer temps come.

DO NOT constantly CHANGE THE TEMP, Vary the TIME.

I understand the ratios... I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how much of a batch to make so I don't have any go bad. Once it's mixed I just keep it in the plastic bottle.

I'll try your mix of 5-1-10. Then mix up up the second batch for the 5-1-7 ratio. So I will have two batches made up and label the plastic bottles.

Now about that cool whip container... does it have to be cleaned between different ratios/batches?

[BMac]

This is what I use to calculate my mix, this may be helpful for some, so I'll share.

104857

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx9D46J0XjxIYmhZcm8tZEswa3c/edit?usp=sharing

Simple stuff, but it takes the guess work out of it.

-BMac

[Moonman]

Cool-Whip I have one for each color, If color starts to build up,
I clean with Acetone, or it will be adding too much color product
to the coating, especially the first coat.

I'm on a diet with A LOT OF FRUIT AND VEGGIES,
So I've been using DIET COOL-WHIP to accumulate the containers.

I mix in small (8 ounce) COKE bottles, Label/Date, and I only mix
enough to use in several days.

MIX/MIX/MIX-----SHAKE/SHAKE/SHAKE when your're making up the color.

Shake/Shake/Shake Coke bottle before using, and IF USING ONE OF THE METALLIC COLORS
such as RED-COPPER or GOLD, measure out for the COOL-WHIP bowl IMMEDIATELY,
so the metallic does not settle back out .

Keep a couple of BOOLITS in your color container to help mix, if they're not already
in the color container, especially with the METALLIC colors.

I have to cast some harder alloy as I'm going to start some 9 MM, with My NEW
HARDLINE INDUSTRIES IRON 4 CAVITY 115 GRAIN MOLD, AND A NOE 135 GRAIN
5 CAVITY THAT'S DUE TODAY.

[Moonman]

BMac,

Maybe you should add that formula chart to the DO'S AND DON'T'S HI-TEK thread.

[Wrbjr]

I mixed too much color up for the batch but I get the picture. The 5-1-10 mix is quite thin. The container I used to swirl just showed a faint green tint to it... no mixture left in the container to speak of. 3 lbs of lead with 1/4 teaspoon as directed. Hard to tell they are coated except they are no longer shiny. Will dry them today.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/ooo001_zps1293216e.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/ooo001_zps1293216e.jpg.html)

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

That's on the right track, VERY LIGHT COLOR TO ALMOST NO COLOR SHOWING
on the FIRST COAT.

That's why I went to 5/1/10 Acetone mix to help make sure the first coat is
thin, the extra Acetone will flash off, but while your measuring to dump into
the COOL-WHIP BOWL, it adds extra solution to help you maintain the thinness.

Many experience WAY TOO MUCH COLOR, especially on the FIRST COAT.

Think of it as STAINING for coating thinness, and consider it a base or primer
coating to HELP FOLLOWING COATS ADHERE and Color.

The FIRST COAT is the important one for the coatings ADHESION.

[Love Life]

Sheeoot. I coat heavy. You can see the red/copper quite easily on my 1st coat.

[kweidner]

Sheeoot. I coat heavy. You can see the red/copper quite easily on my 1st coat.

5/1/6 1tsp per 5lbs. I coat thicker than that too. Been tried at this point on just about every production firearm available. Sold near 50000 loaded round since January. all of em love it. Hardball on 9s and 40. 12bhn on lower pressure stuff. Can't argue with facts.

[Love Life]

Troof!

[Wrbjr]

Second coat of green....before bake of course..... 5-1-7



http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/yyy005_zps16d9f06f.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/yyy005_zps16d9f06f.jpg.html)

After baking.... passed the acetone and smash test. The projectile on the left is a cull obviously, used to help the camera focus...

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/lll001_zps2c1c79fe.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/lll001_zps2c1c79fe.jpg.html)

[Love Life]

That is a thin coat!

[Wrbjr]

This is my first batch.... so should it have a third coat?

[Love Life]

Bake 1st, shoot, and see what needs to change. I use the following when experimenting with anything:

◦Ask a Question
◦Do Background Research
◦Construct a Hypothesis
◦Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
◦Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
◦Communicate Your Results

[Ausglock]

Check you ratios.
This is far too thin. especially for 2 coats of the green.
Mine are fully green after 2 coats. those are see through.
It looks like the coating wasn't shaken prior to dribbling onto the bullets.

[Wrbjr]

Going for third coat.

[Love Life]

If this is your 1st batch, I would not recommend a 3rd coat. I would scrap what you have and start anew.

[Gateway Bullets]

If they are passing all test, then I would put a third coat on see and your results. I use 3 coats on mine to make them look good.

I would also go back and make sure all of your ratios are correct and that you made sure you mixed the coating properly. I use an air drill with an attachment and mix, coating, catalyst, and the all ingredients once combined for at least 3-5 minutes.

After all ingredients have been mixed, I place a small handful of bullets in the bottle and shake before each batch. If you think you have it mixed enough..... Mix some more! Lol

I also use one ml/cc per pound of bullets.

[leadman]

When I was experimenting with different ratios of acetone I even did 4 coats and it worked fine. Important part is to wipe and smash test every coat. Even a hint of color or flaking put them back in the oven for a little longer.
I have also used very heavy coats of Red Copper to increase the diameter of the boolit successfully. These require longer drying time. Again make sure it passes the tests.
I have tried the Dry Gold and it is a little different in the way it coats the boolits but the end results are the same so I like it.
Going to finish casting some 30 caliber rifle boolits tomorrow for continued testing. Might also cast some more linotype 22 caliber then gas check and heat treat them. My goal of high velocity (over 3,600 fps) with the 22s was met now am going to work on the accuracy.

[Silver-Silver]

I tried loading up some freshly cast bullets
CWW alloy, sized .357, 125 RNFP, M&P Pistol
They had more residue in the barrel than I normally get. But I did notice something different, there was some lead shavings right at the point the bullet leaves the chamber and enters the barrel. I am putting the testing of the M&P on hold and focusing all my efforts on the glock 17 as there are lots of reports of success with the factory glock barrel.
104981
These are the test Saeco 147 RN bullets, they were shot after the barrel was cleaned and there was no more fouling from the RNFP bullets.
Left is one coat after baking, the middle is the second coat prior to baking and the third bullet is the second coat after baking. They passed the Acetone and Smash test.
104982
Newest batch, Alloy was hardened WW. Will be shot in the Glock to reduce number of variables. The coating mix was 24 hours old, but should still be good.
104983
The coating always shows up brown in the pictures for some reason, in person it looks much more black with only a tint of gold

-Steve

[Love Life]

It's the throat I your M&P. You're boolit is being shaved as it enters the rifling. I have the same issue with a S&W 1026 when I size to .402.

The Glock barrels have a very smooth and tapered transition from the chamber into the polygonal rifling.

I have done A TON of testing recently and the fact of the matter is that the Glock barrels (all barrels with polygonal rifling, actually) do much less damage to the boolit and coating than a traditional rifled barrel. However; throat and leade into the rifling is also important...as is the boolit design. For the Glock 17, you just may need a .357 boolit. All of my Glocks have done best with a .357 diameter boolit.

[Silver-Silver]

Love Life,
That is exactly why I switched to testing with the glock. That, and I wanted to minimize variables. Change one thing and see if it improves. Testing with 2 different guns could be causing issues for me. Not only does the Glock have the polygonal rifling it has 2 dimensional ramps to lead into the rifling and the barrels are hammer forged not cut so I figured they would make an excellent test bed because it has everything going for it.

I have tried both .357 and .358 sizing, the most recent batch with the harder alloy, I still have the same issue, it doesn't get better, or really have any change at all.

I do have one question for anyone with a Cabine tree hardness tester, could you test a bullet after it has been coated and let me know what you get for either micrometer reading or the brinell hardness?
-Steve

[Wrbjr]

If this is your 1st batch, I would not recommend a 3rd coat. I would scrap what you have and start anew.

Third coat turned out ok... much darker... but I am going to scrap this mixture and start over with a more precise measuring system I put together today. I suspect there was too much acetone in the mix. Going over my steps from the first batch, I found that when pouring out of the acetone can it was dribbling underneath my measuring device into the funnel. I am pretty sure that was the issue. Will make a much smaller batch this time as well.

[BMac]

Wrbjr, I use a 30 ml plastic seringe I bought from amazon. I think I paid $10 for 10 delivered.
Exact measurements, priceless.
I've seen them at drug stores if you want one now.

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr, I use a 30 ml plastic seringe I bought from amazon. I think I paid $10 for 10 delivered.
Exact measurements, priceless.
I've seen them at drug stores if you want one now.

That would be much better as the one I have now is only .5ml... tiny. I'll look around tomorrow for a larger one.

[Love Life]

I use a glass beaker to mix my coating with the liquid HI-TEK. 5/1/9.

[Love Life]

Not only does the Glock have the polygonal rifling it has 2 dimensional ramps to lead into the rifling and the barrels are hammer forged not cut so I figured they would make an excellent test bed because it has everything going for it.



I have been preaching this lately. Where else is this information coming from as I would like to compare notes with the people who are stating it. Soon I will have a rifle barrel with polygonal rifling to test some more things.

[Ausglock]

Too much acetone is better than not enough. It just thins the mix and just means you use more of it to get a good coat.

[Moonman]

The RATIO that MUST BE MAINTAINED is 5 Parts Color to 1 Part CATALYST.

The Acetone you add CAN VERY according to your best results.
Some have added from the original 5 Parts ACETONE to INCREASING
AMOUNTS of Acetone at 7-8-9- or 10 Part Ratios of Acetone to better aid with
coverage and to assure a GOOD/THIN first coating for PRODUCT ADHESION.
The extra Acetone will FLASH OFF.

The metallic colors, especially RED-COPPER benefit from a higher ratio of Acetone
in the mix to SMOOTH OUT it's coverage of the projectile.

The HIGHER ratios of ACETONE in the mix will allow for LUBE GROOVE COVERAGE
(if your mold HAS lube grooves), THIS IS FOR APPEARANCE ONLY, as lube
groove coverage is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY for the coating to function.

I only mix up SMALL BATCHES and use a 5/1/10 first coat (to assure a thin coat).

***Maybe I'll try Love Life's Ratios of a 1/5/9 Acetone mix for a FIRST COAT.***

My SECOND COAT is a 5/1/7 Acetone RATIO.
I only coat with TWO coats of HI-TEK total.

I mix up 2 small batches 1/5/10 and 1/5/7 inside 8 ounce
Plastic COKE Bottles. (one for 1st coat, 1 for 2nd coat).
That's just the way I do it, my total coating mixture volumes
are around 3 ml PER 3 POUNDS of projectiles in a BATCH.
I use total weight (NOT PROJECTILE NUMBERS) for a BATCH SIZE.
3 pounds is the batch size I chose to work with.

I don't coat the THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of projectiles
that some here coat. (Production Businesses).

I'm just a retired hobbyist HAVING FUN and CLEAN BARRELS with
this HI-TEK coating but the colors are NEAT LOOKING TOO.

[Wrbjr]

The RATIO that MUST BE MAINTAINED is 5 Parts Color to 1 Part CATALYST.

The Acetone you add CAN VERY according to your best results.
Some have added from the original 5 Parts ACETONE to INCREASING
AMOUNTS of Acetone at 7-8-9- or 10 Part Ratios of Acetone to better aid with
coverage and to assure a GOOD/THIN first coating for PRODUCT ADHESION.
The extra Acetone will FLASH OFF.

The metallic colors, especially RED-COPPER benefit from a higher ratio of Acetone
in the mix to SMOOTH OUT it's coverage of the projectile.

The HIGHER ratios of ACETONE in the mix will allow for LUBE GROOVE COVERAGE
(if your mold HAS lube grooves), THIS IS FOR APPEARANCE ONLY, as lube
groove coverage is TOTALLY UNNECESSARY for the coating to function.

I only mix up SMALL BATCHES and use a 5/1/10 first coat (to assure a thin coat).

***Maybe I'll try Love Life's Ratios of a 1/5/9 Acetone mix for a FIRST COAT.***

My SECOND COAT is a 5/1/7 Acetone RATIO.
I only coat with TWO coats of HI-TEK total.

I mix up 2 small batches 1/5/10 and 1/5/7 inside 8 ounce
Plastic COKE Bottles. (one for 1st coat, 1 for 2nd coat).
That's just the way I do it, my total coating mixture volumes
are around 3 ml PER 3 POUNDS of projectiles in a BATCH.
I use total weight (NOT PROJECTILE NUMBERS) for a BATCH SIZE.
3 pounds is the batch size I chose to work with.

I don't coat the THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of projectiles
that some here coat. (Production Businesses).

I'm just a retired hobbyist HAVING FUN and CLEAN BARRELS with
this HI-TEK coating but the colors are NEAT LOOKING TOO.

Hmmm... I was thinking the acetone was the problem. But will remix just to be extra accurate and try again. With three coats they came out great looking. Dark green. I would like to achieve that look with 2 coats however. I only do about 3 lbs per run as you do. Not a big time caster, but steady on a hundred or so at a time regularly. As long as I have cast lead in containers piled up on the bench I stay ahead of the game. Concentrating on .40 at the moment, then next I will use my new brass mold from Slovenia in 9MM. It has the HP options. Should be a nice tool.

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,
First, on the container of Color, (before mixing), SHAKE-SHAKE-SHAKE,
when you think it's mixed enough, then shake the original container some more.
Does your original container have a couple of BOOLITS inside to aid with color mixing?

When through mixing, measure out the 5 parts color, IMMEDIATELY especially
if working with the metallic colors so the metallic does not start to settle back out.

Add Catalyst, and SHAKE.

Add whatever ratio of ACETONE that you've chosen to work with and Shake/Shake/Shake.

Measure out the amount of mixed coating for adding to the projectiles
(I use 3 pound BATCHES) inside the plastic COOL-WHIP mix bowl,
and TUMBLE/SWIRL them in the container UNTIL THE SOUND CHANGES is the way I do it.

THEN,

Spread out on wire drying trays (I dry overnight) BAKE, repeat the process again for
your second coat. I've sized between coats or just after the final coat, EXPERIMENT.

VOLUME OF COATING I USE (5/1/10 mix is 1/4 teaspoon for FIRST coat,
and the SECOND COAT is a 5/1/7 mix and I use 1/2 teaspoon)
That totals out to about 3.7 ml for a 3 pound batch, BUT the first coating
HAS A 10 PART ACETONE RATIO, the extra just will Flash off but it aids
with an ASSURED THIN FIRST COATING to help with the coating adhesion.

PROJECTILES THAT HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY CONVENTIONALLY LUBED CANNOT
EVER BE SUCCESSFULLY CLEANED OF THAT LUBE TO ALLOW FOR THE SUCCESSFUL
USE OF HI-TEK COATINGS ON THOSE PROJECTILES. IT JUST WILL NOT WORK!

****NEVER-NEVER SIZE THE PROJECTILES BEFORE COATING!****

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,
First, on the container of Color, (before mixing), SHAKE-SHAKE-SHAKE,
when you think it's mixed enough, then shake the original container some more.
Does your original container have a couple of BOOLITS inside to aid with color mixing?

When through mixing, measure out the 5 parts color, IMMEDIATELY especially
if working with the metallic colors so the metallic does not start to settle back out.

Add Catalyst, and SHAKE.

Add whatever ratio of ACETONE that you've chosen to work with and Shake/Shake/Shake.

Measure out the amount of mixed coating for adding to the projectiles
(I use 3 pound BATCHES) inside the plastic COOL-WHIP mix bowl,
and TUMBLE/SWIRL them in the container UNTIL THE SOUND CHANGES is the way I do it.

THEN,

Spread out on wire drying trays (I dry overnight) BAKE, repeat the process again for
your second coat. I've sized between coats or just after the final coat, EXPERIMENT.

VOLUME OF COATING I USE (5/1/10 mix is 1/4 teaspoon for FIRST coat,
and the SECOND COAT is a 5/1/7 mix and I use 1/2 teaspoon)
That totals out to about 3.7 ml for a 3 pound batch, BUT the first coating
HAS A 10 PART ACETONE RATIO, the extra just will Flash off but it aids
with an ASSURED THIN FIRST COATING to help with the coating adhesion.

PROJECTILES THAT HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY CONVENTIONALLY LUBED CANNOT
EVER BE SUCCESSFULLY CLEANED OF THAT LUBE TO ALLOW FOR THE SUCCESSFUL
USE OF HI-TEK COATINGS ON THOSE PROJECTILES. IT JUST WILL NOT WORK!

****NEVER-NEVER SIZE THE PROJECTILES BEFORE COATING!****

Yes I have added several bullets into my containers. No sizing before hand. No lubed and cleaned bullets. All fresh cast.

I think I have the bases covered and my color is green... no metallics.

I am using 3 lb portions as you do.

Heat control is quite accurate... and I cook for 13 min at this time.

I will do a batch today with new chemicals and post the results... thanks for all the help. I will also test fire a few of the first batch later this afternoon and post up some recovered boolits.

[Wrbjr]

Well, so much for that first batch. Significant leading after 5 rounds. Will see how the second batch goes. Cooking now.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/lead012_zps3ecb4ca2.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/lead012_zps3ecb4ca2.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/lead004_zps82ac6568.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/lead004_zps82ac6568.jpg.html)

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/lead006_zpsd5aab490.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/lead006_zpsd5aab490.jpg.html)

[Love Life]

Well, so much for that first batch. Significant leading after 5 rounds. Will see how the second batch goes. Cooking now.

I reckoned that would be the case. Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get things working well.

Try coating thicker. I know everybody (including the maker) say "Coat as a stain.". I say HA!!!! I coat super thick because they look better. Nary a problem at all. Adjust your bake times accordingly.

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

What's the firearm, and rifling type Polygonal or regular grooves?

[Ausglock]

If the fired bullet is the same as the ones you posted a photo of with ultra thin green coating, Then I'm not surprised at the leading.
That was far far far too thin.
At least you get practice at cleaning your barrel..

[Love Life]

At least you get practice at cleaning your barrel..

Builds character. Oh, and I never clean out my swirling tub. After I dump batch of boolits, I put a new batch in the tub and tumble them a bit. They get the remnants of the coating on them. Then I squirt in a splash of new coating and tumble. Easy peasy!!

[Wrbjr]

Wrbjr,

What's the firearm, and rifling type Polygonal or regular grooves?

Springfield Armory XDm40 Regular grooves

[BMac]

W, From the recovered, the base looks a little nibbled looks like gas cutting?

[Wrbjr]

If the fired bullet is the same as the ones you posted a photo of with ultra thin green coating, Then I'm not surprised at the leading.
That was far far far too thin.
At least you get practice at cleaning your barrel..

These are the final product before firing. 3 Coats. I thought they were much better after the 3rd. Passed the acetone test, but the smash test showed a couple of tiny flakes coming away from the nose... hint of trouble I guess.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/Newlead001_zpsaf048a8f.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/Newlead001_zpsaf048a8f.jpg.html)

[Wrbjr]

Here are the fresh batch... I used a syringe so I know the ratio is dead on. 5-1-9 for the heck of it. Still look thin to me but we shall see.... before cooking..... heading to the oven in a few minutes. I got held up earlier.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/Newlead002_zpsece92f6f.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/Newlead002_zpsece92f6f.jpg.html)

[Love Life]

You may not be shaking long/hard enough.

[HI-TEK]

I reckoned that would be the case. Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get things working well.

Try coating thicker. I know everybody (including the maker) say "Coat as a stain.". I say HA!!!! I coat super thick because they look better. Nary a problem at all. Adjust your bake times accordingly.

You are right.
I do advise this stain coat, but, this is for first coat to ensure that it dries quickly, and bonds well on first coat after bake after thorough drying.
Thereafter, when first coat is well bonded, subsequent coats will bond to first coat and you can use whatever you are happy with and get results required to get colour and thickness the way you want.
Generally two coats are enough, but for more pretty and even finish, three thin coats should produce a glossy well coated finish and use small amount of coating.
Attached is finish that is typical that can be achieved with two coats.
Flaking at smash test means problems.105132

[Wrbjr]

Thanks... hang in there with me.... I am gonna get this right... I really liked loading without the goo. Even breaking down the loaded rounds shown above was easier without the alox causing the powder to stick everywhere. I think I like this system..... big time.

[Moonman]

Color looks LIGHT, especially for 3 coats.

If they fail ANY TEST any COAT, you probably should route them

to the REMELT CAN.

ALSO,

I see you're in Florida, I think some that live near the sea and

actually DRY TOO LONG have had some issues.

How long were you DRYING for?

40 is also a HIGH PRESSURE ROUND, How hard is your ALLOY,

or What is your alloy?

[Wrbjr]

Color looks LIGHT, especially for 3 coats.

If they fail ANY TEST any COAT, you probably should route them

to the REMELT CAN.

ALSO,

I see you're in Florida, I think some that live near the sea and

actually DRY TOO LONG have had some issues.

How long were you DRYING for?

I'm in the center of the state... 60 miles inland. They were drying all afternoon outside. I would say about 5-6 hours min. I also hit them with the hairdryer just before going in the oven.....

[Moonman]

Wrbjr,

Alloy or Alloy Hardness, the 40 is a HIGH PRESSURE ROUND.

How hot are you loading?

[Wrbjr]

7.5 grains BlueDot... approx 1050-1100 fps. Alloy around 13-14. I tinned it and use antimony.

[Love Life]

Hmmmm. IIRC from the early days, the RC and Gold were better for that kind of stuff due to the high metallic content. I use the RC to drive 10mm 200 gr boolits with an unsafe amount of AA#9 and 800X. I only use virgin starline for those loads and only trash it after use.

[Wrbjr]

First coat pounded flat. Best I can tell it's a go. But I thought that before... so....

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/bryan578/a2a314a7-ce86-4fb9-b9f4-5442a7aa841e_zpse93f5a80.jpg (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/bryan578/media/a2a314a7-ce86-4fb9-b9f4-5442a7aa841e_zpse93f5a80.jpg.html)

[Love Life]

It's gonna fail again. Your 1st coat is super light. Go a tad heavier on the coating.

[Wrbjr]

It's gonna fail again. Your 1st coat is super light. Go a tad heavier on the coating.

Once I have baked these.... they are done? No way to salvage this batch?

[Moonman]

If you reduce the ACETONE ratio in your mix THE COLOR WILL BE HEAVIER.

You ave to find out what works for YOU and YOUR PROCEDURES.

I prefer the GOLDS to the DARK GREEN.

[Love Life]

Once I have baked these.... they are done? No way to salvage this batch?

As long as the 1st bake cured, just go a good bit heavier on the 2nd coat. My 1st coat you can see the coating very well, but it is splotchy. After the 2nd coat they appear to fully and evenly colored. You can see my twice coated boolits in this picture:

[Ausglock]

OK. I have been using a New Hardline Indutries 45 230gn RN 4 cavity mold for the last few days.
Here are some photos of the results.
The green is the Kryptonite Green.
The red is a new experimental Candy Apple red. 122K/1035
They are both liquid coatings.

5-1-7 mix 2 coats.
Wrbjr.
Take note of the colour and the coverage against yours.
I mix 50mls of colour, 10 mls of catalyst and 75mls of Acetone.

Please re-check your ratios. 40 really needs 15BHN alloy (2.6.92)
Here are the 45 230gn RN loaded for firing tomorrow.
Alloy for my 45 pills is range reclaim alloy. 10 to 12BHN.

105184

105185

105186