Lighter weight 40s from 9MM

[BT Sniper]

OK guys I had a minute to trim a couple cases and make a shorter and lighter 40 cal bullet from the 9mm case.

I was able to come up with a 163 grain bullet using a 105 grain core and a 9mm case cut down to .675 in length formed in the same one step die set up you guys have. If you can rig a quick trimmer set up with a mini chop saw and a case trimmer this would go pretty quick.

I will look into a tool to "roll" the jacket in one it's self too for the untrimed jackets on lighter bullets. I figure a rounded out (concaved) pieve of 7/8-14 allthread or bolt should do the trick. Anything would work really even a hammer with a concaved punch would work like as those used for rivits and such. A little imagination where will go a long ways guys.

Anyway, the lighter 40 cal bullets are certainly possible. I was also able to neck down a bunch of scrap 8mm brass to use for jackets and made a nice 155 grain 40 cal JHP. Here I used the 125 grain core and wound up with a 30 grain jacket. If I used a 105 grain core instead I would be able to make the 135 grain bulelts. Next project jackets from scrap copper tubing.

Here is the pic, from left to right, standard belled 9MM, trimmed to .675, standard 190 grain 40 cal bullet with standard 9mm and 125 grain core, 163 grain 40 cal from trimmed 9mm and 105 grain core, 160 grain 40 cal with 105 grain core and 9mm trimmed to .600, and last the 155 grain with 125 grain core and 30 grain jacket made from scrap riffle brass.



Hope to have some range results some day. Untill then good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[a.squibload]

I like the 160 gn exposed lead tip, looks like you bought it in a box at the store. Except for the extractor groove that is. Guess I'll have to get that mini-chopsaw after all.

[DukeInFlorida]

Brian, any chance you can give us a look see at your fixturing for the mini-chop-saw?

[BT Sniper]

Here is the link to the original thread on the mini chop saw and cutting jackets.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=53857

Should be very easy to rig up. With the $30 mini chop saw I disonected the base from the saw housing and reconnected it backwords. Attach the base, now attached behind the saw, to a board or base of some sorts with good sized bolts. Notch out a grove to allow this base and saw to move horizontal an inch or two.

Infront of the saw I securly mounted a case trimmer so I could grip the case. I removed the actual trimmer to allow the mini saw to come down and cut the case. Works sliker then grease! I actually made atleast a couple thousand cuts today in just a fw hours or less. Tollerances can be held alot tighter then need be.

I'll repost the pics here too. Notice the two wing nuts in the first pic. I loosen those and then can slide saw and base as one unit to what ever length I need. Fine adjustments in the .01 or less can be made after nuts are tight by lightly tapping ends of base with hammer.





BT

[Intel6]

Brian,

There are .40 bullets avail down to 135 gr commercially so there is data out there for them. I push them to 1,700 fps + in my 10mm's.

The 165 is a weight that has become populer in USPSA competition for use in 6" limited guns in .40. I use a 6" longslide STI and the 165 JHP from Montana Gold is the bullet I use, I push them out of my gun at just over 1,000 fps to make the power factor.

I am interested in these weights but not if I have to cut down cases.


Neal in AZ

[a.squibload]

Amazing how the strobe light froze the saw blade, it appears to be motionless!

[Intel6]

Brian,

I am interested in how you use a tube of brass to make a swaged bullet? I am guessing others may too so how about you explain how that works for the group?

I get using a cup with a closed bottom but how does a the bottom get formed when using a tube of brass? Do you pre form the "jacket" to close the base and then swage the core in or are you able to do it in one step?

Neal in AZ

[jonblack]

The 105 core concept is interesting to me as I planned to cast those for my .380s anyway. Let us know how they perform at the range.

Thank you
jonblack

[BT Sniper]

Some day I hope to do a full range test with many different bullets in 40 cal, till then I'll just have to keep posting ideas for the many of us here.

So for making jackets from a piece of brass........ All of mine have been from some sort of riffle cartridge. Either the ones I use to make 44 AMP brass, worn out brass or berdian primed brass. What I have found to work best is first cut the case off at the neck junction. Then resize the case in a 22-250 sizing die as this will take the shoulder down to .410, 25-06 works well for the 44 jackets. Check the figures for the shoulder diameter of the various cases, you'll figure it out. You could also size the entire case down first and cut off neck after words. This only eneminates the mess of brass saw dust in the die. You only need to size the case enough to reduce the neck junction of the shoulder with the idea to have the smallest hole possible. After neck is cut off then cut jacket to desired length.

From here there is a few options but for best results we need to get the jacket a bit smaller then the finall bullet diameter before we swage final bullet. If you have a core seat die I have taken a slightly larger jacket with core droped in it and formed it that way as it sizes and seats core at same time farly easily. Might be able to take it straight to the swage die, though you will generally get a .0005 spring back from the brass. This may effect the hold of the jacket to the core. Usually our 40 cal swage dies have produced .3995ish bullets anyways so the slight groth may not be a problem. What I have done is reduce the jacket in the core seat die while it is still in one piece then cut to desired length and was able to drop in a core and form in one step die though the base did not close up as much though still would shoot just fine.

To get the brass to close up even more I have a insert for my core seat dies that almost gets it to completly close up. Corbins jacket maker for copper tubing works much the same way. Matter of fact that will be my next project to make jackets from copper tubing using the core seat die and a custom insert. I know it can be done just need the time to perfect it.

After core is seated and base is in shape of a cone with a faily small opening it goes striaght to the swage die where the base if flatened out at same time bullet is formed. Makes a very good bullet and I have found them capible of groups half the size of the bullets made from entire cases.

I know some where back I have posted a thread on this project. I'll see if I can add some pics. Think I may have those up recently too.

Good shooting,

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here is the link to a recent thread with picks. It is a bit older from my initial testing as you will see after the core is seated I experimented with a bit of lead to flow out bottom. I have sense modified it to just take increase shoulder angle to close the opening up a bit more, probably 60 degrees or so.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=82829

[uncleskippy]

Brian,

I can't wait to see what you will come up with making jackets from copper tubing and a core setting die.

[Adam10mm]

I shorten a 9mm and have been making 120gr JHPs for my 10mm for a while. Also been working with shortened .380 brass to make 100gr bullets too. I make 10mm bullets from 100gr to 245gr.

[Intel6]

Brian,

Thanks, I must have missed that thread you linked? It makes sense now using the cut cases.

Neal in AZ

[sargenv]

I actually tried a trick someone else had mentioned.. once you swage it into the HP, with the less lead of the 105's, you punch it out of the die, turn it 180 degrees, press the brass over the hollow point, then turn it another 180 degrees, tighten the die down a bit farther (since the bullet is now a bit shorter) and then re-swage it to roll the brass around the lead and punch the hollow point. I am coming out with bullets in the 170 ish gr weight and they are about .050" shorter.. maybe a bit more.. maybe .065" shorter.. no need to cut anything.. I of course am doing this in batches of a few hundred.. though with proper labelling, there is nothing that says you can't do a boatload of them one evening, then the next process, and then the final..

Now that I installed the swage ram on my Rock Chucker, I am a happy camper

[sargenv]

Ok, so after a while, the process above gets tedious.. so I abandoned it for now. However I did figure out a way to seat the cores in a much faster fashion. I had been running the annealed brass through my Dillon to give the cases a slight flare so that I could seat the bullet cores easier.. so tonight I took it a step farther and put a seating die on station 4 of my 650 so that I could flare the case slightly, then seat the core (108 gr SWC unsized at .358-.359 as cast). This method worked very well and now I have about 400 or so ready to swage core/jackets. I was looking around my loading bench for the 9 mm crimp die.. but well, it's such a mess that I couldn't find it.. when I clean up I will likely find it.. that will make certain that the core/jacket does not separate in the moving around phase before putting the whole thing into my press. Might also make it a bit easier to start the sizing phase.. Anyway, just one more thing to add.. The 108 gr cores allow the finished bullets to be in the range of 165-170 gr.

[jonblack]

sargenv

Can you give us an update (hopefully with pics) to your project?

Thank you
jonblack

[mold maker]

I just received my BT Sniper dies, for .40 brass to .44HP Boolits and the samples he sent were great. His dies are a real pro product. I'm really excited about this extension to casting and reloading.
This is almost too much fun for an OF with more hair on the chin than on the top.

[sargenv]

Update forthcoming... I was taking pictures of the processes and found that I needed wait till daylight and a time for me to think of it again.. it's daylight now and I've been reminded of it.. I hope to have some pictures up soon. Since I wrote the above I processed a large batch of cores and now have about 1k to turn into the finished bullet. The last batch of cores were 130 RN's and I went back to the 193 HP from the 170's. I estimated that I spent about 4 hours per 1000, that may be inaccurate.. it might be less time.. I need to figure that out via the scientific method.. ie, pay attention to the actual time it really takes.

[a.squibload]

...turn it 180 degrees, press the brass over the hollow point...

Do you have a hollowed punch to do this, or just the flat one?

Someone here (maybe you or BT?) mentioned a section of 7/8 x 14 threaded rod cupped on the end to start the brass curving over the lead.
Apparently not done in a die, but "freehand". Slight pressure.
I'll have to search for that I guess.

That dang BT is an evil influence, I bought the HF chopsaw and it's all his fault.
Then I realized I don't have a brass trimmer to hold the cases.
Is there a cheap alternative? I have the Lee trimmer sets.

[sargenv]

Nope, just the flat one.. and it sounds awful, but appears to work.

I fashioned a 38 spl case trimmer from 1" aluminum bar stock that I put in the little vice that comes with the chop saw.