Selling cast bullets ?

[405WIN]

I am thinking about starting a small side job selling my own cast bullets. Does anyone know if a person would needt to be licensed by the Federal goverment as a Ammunition mfg. to legally sell home cast bullets.?
Details would be appreciated.

[iron mule]

405win you do not need an ffl to sell ammo or reloading componets but you do need one to assemble the componets and then sell the loaded ammo/// but you also need to check your state and local regs about this
mule

[nascarkent]

I think this has been hashed out here before and there is some sort of paper work required for the sale of cast boolits

[Adam10mm]

Here are the facts from an actual licensed manufacturer that knows the facts, me.

The GCA of 1968 defines ammunition as:

Ammunition. Ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm. The term shall not include (a) any shotgun shot or pellet not designed for use as the single, complete projectile load for one shotgun hull or casing, nor (b) any unloaded, non-metallic shotgun hull or casing not having a primer.

As you can see, ammunition also includes components such as bullets, cases, primers, and powder. If you manufacture any of these, example being casting a bullet, you are manufacturing ammunition. If you do it for livelihood and profit, you need to be licensed as a manufacturer.

The ATF's opinion/way they enforce the law, is one incident of selling ammunition or components you manufacture is cause to believe you did it to attempt profit and livelihood. Livelihood can be supplemental income. Selling also includes not only common currency payments but also trades for services, goods, or promises for future compensation. Selling equals compensation. If you are compensated in any way shape or form, you are "selling".

The FFL type you need is a Type 06 Manufacturer of Small Arms Ammunition Other Than Destructive Devices. The fee is $30 for three years.

Also, what a lot of manufacturers don't get is that since you are manufacturing ammunition or components that also gets controlled by the US State Department under the ITAR or International Trade in Arms Regulations.

In a nutshell, it states that manufacturers of ammunition, components, firearms, parts, scopes, etc are all manufacturers of "defensive articles". It does not matter if you are not exporting them. All manufacturers must register. There are no exceptions. The fact that you are only manufacturing articles for civilian use of domestic law enforcement use does not matter. The annual fee for ITAR registration is $2250 per year.

Here's the straight up ITAR code:

Sec. 122.1 Registration requirements.

(a) General. Any person who engages in the United States in the business
of either manufacturing or exporting defense articles or furnishing
defense services is required to register with the Office of Munitions
Control. Manufacturers who do not engage in exporting must nevertheless
register.

Then there's liability insurance. A basic liability policy is a few thousand dollars a year and goes up from there.

So there you have it from someone who has been there, done that. I started my business as a commercial bullet caster in 2006, licensed as an 06 FFL, registered with ITAR as a manufacturer of defensive articles, and insured with a $1 million product liability policy. The legal way and the right way.

[405WIN]

Thanks Freakshow10mm. That is the info I have been looking for.

[mtnman31]

405Win,
If you are dead set on making bullets for money, maybe Freakshow will hire you to manufacture said bullets for him - as his paid employee. That would allow you to make your bullets and he gets to sell them using his license. Send him your resume... Freakshow is a nice enough guy, I'm sure as your boss he'll provide you with something nicer than a sweatshop to work in.

BTW - I think that the requirement to register with ITAR is like so many other rules - just there for someone to fleece some money from someone else.

[Shiloh]

Well done Freakshow!!

There it is folks. Some of the regs you must comply with. It isn't pretty.
Possible sticky material.

SHiloh

[Jim]

I think I'll just stick with rollin' an' smo.....uhh, I mean castin' an' shootin' my own.

[peter nap]

Hmmm...I wonder what you have to have to sell bullet shaped sinkers???????

[Shiloh]

Hmmm...I wonder what you have to have to sell bullet shaped sinkers???????

Possibly convincing the powers that be that they are sinkers. The lube grooves are really for attaching the line to.

Shiloh

[Adam10mm]

405Win,
If you are dead set on making bullets for money, maybe Freakshow will hire you to manufacture said bullets for him - as his paid employee. That would allow you to make your bullets and he gets to sell them using his license. Send him your resume... Freakshow is a nice enough guy, I'm sure as your boss he'll provide you with something nicer than a sweatshop to work in.

Trouble is the business operations, ie manufacturing of ammunition, must be done entirely on the licensed premises, so he'd have to move to MI. It's cold and we just got two feet of snow with more on the way.

I do have one member on this board that helps me out when he can which I'm very grateful for, but he's local so it makes it easy and legal.

But company policy states you must be armed at all times while on company time. And we get to shoot machine guns and silencers when we get bored. Perks of being an 07 FFL/ 02 SOT.

[mtnman31]

I like your business policies.

I envy those of you who have the good fortune to make a living/business out of a hobby that you love. If only we were all so fortunate. I love my job - but there are other ones that I'd have more fun doing. Someday...

[405WIN]

Trouble is the business operations, ie manufacturing of ammunition, must be done entirely on the licensed premises, so he'd have to move to MI. It's cold and we just got two feet of snow with more on the way.

I do have one member on this board that helps me out when he can which I'm very grateful for, but he's local so it makes it easy and legal.

But company policy states you must be armed at all times while on company time. And we get to shoot machine guns and silencers when we get bored. Perks of being an 07 FFL/ 02 SOT.

My wife is from Mich. and would proably love to move back. I like it here so I guess she will have to move without me.

[Matt3357]

What about selling homemade lead shot? Is there anything in there specifying that?

Thanks,
Matt

[Adam10mm]

What about selling homemade lead shot? Is there anything in there specifying that?

Thanks,
Matt

Read what I posted above in post #4. It's already been stated in the federal code.

Here it is again for clarity:

The term shall not include (a) any shotgun shot or pellet not designed for use as the single, complete projectile load for one shotgun hull or casing,

Shot pellets, including buckshot, are not considered ammunition according to the GCA of 1968. Slugs, ie "single complete projectile", are considered ammunition.

Shotgun pellets are not ammunition. Slugs or pellets meant to be the sole projectile are ammunition.

[Matt3357]

Thanks for the info freakshow. I apologize for not catching that the first time I read this post. I can now go ahead with my plans to make a self contained lead shot maker for my Engineering Senior Design project and sell lead shot to the local gun club shooters to recoup some of the investment can go ahead. Thanks again, this Site has yet to disappoint.

Thanks,
Matt

[1874Sharps]

Gentlemen,

The above information (that a license is required to manufacture and sell bullets) just did not quite seem right to me. I called up the BATFE and got the scoop straight from the horse's mouth. That is indeed correct! It makes no sense to me, but that is the law. I guess there is no law that says gun related laws have to make common sense. You are abosoluely right, Freakshow!

[chris in va]

Are you saying the BATFE told you that manufacturing boolits at home requires a license? Or just selling them...

[selmerfan]

Just selling them I hope!!!

[StarMetal]

The ATF's website sucks. It's not easy to find what you're looking for or get a clear easy explanation. From what information I can gather you need an 06 license to manufacture bullets (except armor piercing) for sell. I see nothing about making them for yourself. That's ridiculous what the AFT told the poster. I would expect two things talking to most (not all) ATF agents over the phone: 1. They lie and 2. Most of them don't know their butt from a hole in the ground.

Joe